D3 REAR END BOUNCING AFTER SPEED HUMPS

[gasman]

Hi All.
Our D3 has non air suspension and is raised 40mm. It has just started to develop bouncing in the rear after going over those pedestrian speed humps at crossings and so on.
Shocks are possibly 100k old. First I thought springs, but then
I thought shocks, what does the forum think?
Also, if the springs are 40mm higher than standard, do I require a special/longer shock? and which brand of shock/springs would you all recommend. I will be installing them myself.

Regards,
Gm

[jonesy63]

Hi GM,
+1 on rear shocks.

IIRC, Dobinsons are the preferred brand for D3 coilers.

[BMKal]

Definitely the shocks are buggered. Probably nothing wrong with the springs at all (if the vehicle is still sitting level).

Can't help with what to replace them with though.

[theresanothersteve]

Dampers (shocks). I've got mates (albeit high performance vehicles) who replace dapers at 50K, if it wasn't for the cost they'd do it with each set of tyres! Bit over the top for me, I change 'em at 100K.

[TerryO]

Dampers (shocks). I've got mates (albeit high performance vehicles) who replace dapers at 50K, if it wasn't for the cost they'd do it with each set of tyres! Bit over the top for me, I change 'em at 100K.


Have to agree with your mates, most shocks are lucky to still be working anywhere near their best after 50k.

The thing is they go off gradually so we don't tend to notice how bad they have become until they are completely stuffed.

[kingo]

Hi GM
I have the same set up as yourself, coil sprung with a 50mm lift. Would be very interested to know the options for replacement shockers, especially with a 50mm lift. My D3 has 167000kms on the clock and am assuming on the original shockers. It's due for a service soon and I'm thinking of getting the shocks replaced.

Any suggestions forum users? Would air spring shocks be the same. I'm guessing as the air sprung D3 can raise up to 100mm??? the same shocks for a lifted coil sprung D3 should be fine.

Cheers Andrew

[CaverD3]

There was an issue with the early King Springs overextending the shocks, not sure which ones though.

[Graeme]

Have to agree with your mates, most shocks are lucky to still be working anywhere near their best after 50k.

The thing is they go off gradually so we don't tend to notice how bad they have become until they are completely stuffed.
I totally agree and changed the last ones under 60K.

[murray073]

Hi Jonesy63

I have a D3 coiler & was thinking of lifting it with a set of springs & shocks. Have you had any experience with the Dobinson Springs & shocks? Would it be better to use King springs & Dobinson shocks or all Dobinson, or maybe some other brand shocks? The car has 67 000km & I will be towing a 1500 kg off road camper.

Cheers,

Murray

[landoman]

Have to agree with your mates, most shocks are lucky to still be working anywhere near their best after 50k.

The thing is they go off gradually so we don't tend to notice how bad they have become until they are completely stuffed.

Have to agree with this statement ....my rear shocks have just been replaced (at 50K ) and they seemed to just go off suddenly ie were stuffed .....rear end bouncing around after a bump and very harse ride

QUESTION ....does the air suspension also loose some of its effect over time leading to a harder ride or are the shocks alone what give the smooth ride

My vechicle still seems a little harder than it was when it was new even with the new rear shocks .....could that be to do with the airsuspension or something else

[CaverD3]

Air suspension is harder at different heights so it could be height calibration?
I found mine got very hard when the dealer tightened up the bush bolts on the hoist when the suspension was dropped and tore one of the bushes.
Suspension is quite sensitive so slight differences will be more noticeable.

[SBD4]

also.... what would be the best way to verify if your shocks are stuffed and are they considered wear and tear or warranty item if within warranty period?

[jonesy63]

also.... what would be the best way to verify if your shocks are stuffed and are they considered wear and tear or warranty item if within warranty period?

Sean - I'm about to find out - today or tomorrow - if they're a wear & tear, or warranty item. Mine is in for 60k km service and I've complained about the harsh ride, as well as shaking from side to side - when stationary and a car passes by.

[TerryO]

Shocks should be covered under new car warranty.

[SBD4]

Sean - I'm about to find out - today or tomorrow - if they're a wear & tear, or warranty item. Mine is in for 60k km service and I've complained about the harsh ride, as well as shaking from side to side - when stationary and a car passes by.

Thanks guys,

I have 9000km/4mths left on warranty and am lining up all the info I need for the end of warranty inspection.

I'll be very interested to hear how you go - are you using Purnell Motors?

[jonesy63]

Sean - no, Alto at St Leonards.

Also having dash top replaced, after two separate attempts to fix the "creaking" sound have failed.

[theresanothersteve]

I suspect you wouldn't get far claiming dampers with over 50k, that'd be considered normal wear. Doesn't stop you trying, but. ;)

[CaverD3]

Don't worry Rob they'll replace if failed.
Shocks are covered as they are not a wearing part (like brake pads etc.)
Sorry Steve but a lot of manufacturers get away with not paying out because customers believe them when they say: "that's considered normal wear sir, not covered under warranty."
We have very good consumer protection rights, if we don't exercise them we will lose them.
There is a 'reasonable expectation' (rights can extend beyond manufacturers warranty) that the shocks will last longer than 50,000ks.

[Graeme]

Shocks are covered as they are not a wearing part (like brake pads etc.)I don't believe this is correct as they do wear and their wear rates are different with different usage although if they leak then that's a different matter. I've never had a set of shocks that have been of much use after 50K kms. After market shocks are usually only warranted for 30K kms. Koni advised replacing all seals in their shocks if opened-up for revalving if they've done 30K kms because the seals will have worn significantly.

The other issue is whether the person assessing the shocks' usefulness knows the on-road feel of good and worn shocks. When I took my D4 to the nearest dealer on its last day of warranty to have the shocks assessed, the young mechanic had no idea of the indications of worn shocks and declared there was nothing wrong. The bouncing of the front that occurred each time the vehicle was stopped was just one indication and the one test drive around the outside of the workshop indicated that the mechanic had no clue about evaluating shocks. The ride was so sickening that I ordered a new set of shocks as soon as I got back home from the 400 km futile trip to that dealer. BTW, I will only consider returning to that dealer in a dire emergency because of their lack of mechanical knowledge combined with the attitude that they know everything and I know nothing.

[CaverD3]

I would argue that Shocks should not fail within the warranty period.Graeme it comes down to keeping the supplier honest. When it comes own to it LR would have a hard time getting away with refusing a claim on shocks within the warranty period.
Other parts that could be refused could be bearings and bushes but LR and other brands replace these under warranty.
Dealers do not know much and it is up to the customer to provide the evidence of failure.
You knew the shocks had failed so you need to provide evidence a mechanic or at least put your claim in writing suggesting poor shocks affect braking performance.
Surprised you didn't push it Graeme given your efforts on the possum lights.
The D4 shocks do not seem to last as long as the D3 one did.
LR are better than many on warranty claims partly due to their customers expecting more of the brand than Tojo, Holden or Ford owners do.
If you are happy to pay for parts yourself when they fail, despite having a warranty then that is your choice.
IMHO I think it better to fight for a claim.

[Graeme]

I consider shocks are like tyres whereby some people wear them out faster than others. LR replaced tyres on some early vehicles that had scrubbed-out prematurely due to alignment issues but I haven't read where anyone has had tyres replaced because they didn't last the warranty period. I think that LR has agreed to replace some pairs of shocks (usually the rears - haven't heard of all 4 being replaced) because they think they should last the warranty period but have no idea to what use they have been subjected. Shocks will last much longer driving around city streets compared with country roads and I suspect most usage in England does not involve extended country travel at the speeds we have in Australia so I can understand the thinking that shocks should last the warranty period.

I did not believe that LR owed me a set of shocks because of the distance they had travelled but tried anyway simply because other people have had some shocks replaced and mine were in dire need of replacing. I was appalled at the so-called shock testing, along with the service manager telling me that air springs did not even have shocks then the young mechanic telling me that the shocks weren't leaking oil so were OK even though he could not possibly have known whether they were leaking oil or not because the shock's seals are fully contained within the airspring and then saying that LR would never agree to replacing all 4 shocks anyway. LR Customer Assist were already aware of my concerns which was why I was able to get the vehicle looked at with only 1 day's notice as the service manager had told me on the phone that they did not have time to check the vehicle and as the warranty was to expire that day, I had missed the boat. LR Customer Assist then advised the dealership that they were wrong and I was right which probably didn't go down too well anyway, so I was going to have an uphill battle all the way. In the end I wasn't prepared to go to my normal dealership 600 kms away on the chance I could convince them and then wait to see if LR approved replacements then make another 1200 km trip - I just didn't have that much inclination to persue something I didn't believe I was owed. I fitted my replacements about 1 week later, sourced ex UK.

[CaverD3]

Your choice on that one but experience has shown the D4 shocks to have less longevity than D3 ones.
Shocks gradually become less effective but it sounds like yours had failed dealer would seem to be more of an issue.
Lets see what Alto say to Rob with his ones, they have always been good to me.

[TerryO]

On a new vehicle shocks should be covered by warranty for the term of the vehicles warranty period.

What is the difference between shocks and a engine? Both wear with use and both can fail in the warranty period. Where does it say in any written vehicle information that shocks aren't covered?

I have had dealers explain to me on many occassions that tyres and brakes are not covered under warranty because they are wear and tear items, but never once have they ever mentioned shocks. In fact at present our 9 month old HSV Senator's MRC shocks are showing signs of failure and when asked the dealers service manager has said that they would be replaced if need be.

So if your shocks are stuffed in the warranty period then don't back down and let some LR service manager bluff you that they aren't covered.

[landoman]

Sean - I'm about to find out - today or tomorrow - if they're a wear & tear, or warranty item. Mine is in for 60k km service and I've complained about the harsh ride, as well as shaking from side to side - when stationary and a car passes by.



My D4 suddenly developed a very harse ride and severe swaying in the rear at 50,000 km ........LR replaced the rear shocks under warranty ....but this only partially solved the problem ....still geting every little bump transmitting through the front and steering wheel .....very unpleasent ride so looks like the front shocks need replacing

Dealer has referred my complaint to LR and waiting feedback ......so will be intrested in what response you get as well

[Graeme]

My D4 suddenly developed a very harse ride and severe swaying...
I'm intrigued by this comment and also that you can feel the front misbehaving when a lot of "experts" think that only rear shocks wear or fail.

I had replaced all my D4 shocks with D3 shocks at around 35K because they were too firm for my use. When the D3s wore and eventually became useless after 60K of use I refitted the original D4s whilst waiting for withdrawn after market ones to become available again. The refitted original D4s restored good control albeit with their firm ride for nearly 5K then suddenly lost most of their high-speed damping to the extent they were now worse than the recently-removed D3s. If I had left them fitted in the first place they probably would have had their failure at 40K so should have been replaced under warranty because of their sudden failure. I considered they had failed rather than progressively wore out. The odometer implied they had travelled 95K kms by the end of warranty.

[landoman]

I cannot agree or disagree with what the "experts might think " as i am not an expert in any way but what i do know was the harsh ride came on quite suddenly .....and after driving my car for two years i know what if felt like before (and it was good ) ....now its harse I feel the shocks of any uneven parts of the road ....and the car seems to move around a lot more instead of sitting evenly on the road and the movment up and down being in the wheels rather than the whole car .......it is hard to explain the difference ....but its quite noticable ....like driving a different car ...and after only 50.000 km .....