200Tdi - Rebuilt - Where to source

[ashhhhh]

Hey all,

It looks like my 200Tdi-->Series 3 109 conversion is a goer, I just need to source the motor.

Can anyone suggest a good supplier?
Im after a good low km example (hopeful I know..) or a fully rebuilt item.
I would prefer the Deefer engine.

Cheers
Ash

[gromit]

Here's one potential supplier.

200tdi 300tdi 300 200 tdi land rover defender conversion engines (http://www.landroverimport.com/products.html)



Colin

[isuzurover]

Why not a 300tdi??? They will bolt in almost as easily as a 200, and are much easier to get hold of locally.

Plus the disco version does not have the turbo in the wrong spot like the 200 does.

[gromit]

Part this out and get some of your money back :-

1992 Land Rover Discovery Wagon | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Greater Dandenong - Dandenong North (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/dandenong-north/cars-vans-utes/1992-land-rover-discovery-wagon/1021361502)



Colin

[ashhhhh]

Cheers.
Yeah that import place want 6k, landed.. :eek:
Tried them a while back.

Ahh the 300 takes enough extra work that it doesn't interest me. (moving engine mounts etc)
I'm also keeping the stock gearbox so dont need any power above what the 200 will output. :)

Yeah Gromit ive seen a few whole vehicles around, its the transport that's the killer.
Also, im a bit suss on "rebuilt" engines.
I would rather a low km version which has not been rebuilt, or a freshly reconditioned item.

[isuzurover]

...

I'm also keeping the stock gearbox so dont need any power above what the 200 will output. :)


..


200 and 300 are both 111 bhp in disco form. I believe the defender version of the 200 was detuned. It would be a 5 minute job to do the same to a 300 if you were concerned.

You can leave the chassis mounts as-is easily enogh if that is your concern.

[ashhhhh]

So how do you fit it and retain the existing mounts?

Every conversion ive read involved them cutting and re-welding the mounts, this immediately adds a "check point" when the engineer has a look.

[isuzurover]

So how do you fit it and retain the existing mounts?

Every conversion ive read involved them cutting and re-welding the mounts, this immediately adds a "check point" when the engineer has a look.

The LHS of a 300 tdi block still has the boss and even the stud holes for the 200/series engine mount.

Not sure about the RHS, but it would be easy to make a suitable engine mount, to avoid modifying the chassis.

[ashhhhh]

So have you done the conversion before yourself?

If not, is there someone who can confirm 100% that stock mounts can be used with a 300tdi?
Already I am finding a ton of information, lots of it conflicting.. :(
Im happy to fab some new mounts if required, just be good to know beforehand.

Basically this is my only vehicle and im not keen for it to be off the road for months while I work through 500 unforeseen problems. :cool:
I want to know exactly what is required ahead of time, so I can have all parts on hand. (probably deluding myself by saying "all", "most" might be more realistic..haha)

[isuzurover]

So have you done the conversion before yourself?

If not, is there someone who can confirm 100% that stock mounts can be used with a 300tdi?
Already I am finding a ton of information, lots of it conflicting.. :(
Im happy to fab some new mounts if required, just be good to know beforehand.

Basically this is my only vehicle and im not keen for it to be off the road for months while I work through 500 unforeseen problems. :cool:
I want to know exactly what is required ahead of time, so I can have all parts on hand. (probably deluding myself by saying "all", "most" might be more realistic..haha)

No, I have not done it, but I own a 300Tdi disco and a IIA with a 2.25D which I am converting to DI using 300 tdi parts.

I can double check the mounts tonight between the two motors.

[ashhhhh]

Yeah that'd be great.
If the boss and mount holes are there, then sweet!

[isuzurover]

Yeah that'd be great.
If the boss and mount holes are there, then sweet!


You can see in this image that both sets of mount holes/bosses are there on the LHS.

300 tdi
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/960.jpg

200 tdi
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/961.jpg


EDIT.
The RHS looks like the upper hole has been deleted, but the lower hole is still there. It would however be easy to make up a plate which connected to the leading 2 holes used by the 300tdi mount.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/962.jpg

[Sitec]

Ashhhhh, allow yourself a week off work, and have the engine, most of a LWB 6 cylinder exhaust, cutting disks, throttle cable, CAV fuel filter housing, plenty of hose clamps and fuel line all ready before that week! I'm currently building a SWB powered by a Disco 200 Tdi and LT77 5 speed, (projects and tutorials 'SWIMBO's Ser 2 Tdi The Beginning').... Once I'd removed the battery tray, the 200 bolted straight onto the same mounts using the metalwork off the 2.286 petrol. Not 100% sure about the 300 but think they are the same! You will need to use the bolts out of the Tdi though as they are metric! You will also need an M10 tap to tap out bell housing holes on the Tdi that are there and in the right place, just not used on the Disco. The two dowels in the engine bell housing will need to be removed, and you'll need to drill your existing gearbox bell housing out to M10 as well. Once in position, you will be able to use the Series rad (must be clean and in good nick tho!), and modified bottom hose. Remove the original thermostat housing off your petrol engine and fit it to the Tdi then use a std 2.286 top hose. Fans won't line up so u will have to use an electric fan. The Disco intercooler won't work neatly with a series front so you'll need to find an intercooler that'll sit in front of the rad with pipe work running up the left chassis rail. If time is short, you can do it later but not too much later!! You'll need a pair of 3.54:1 early Rangie diffs to bring it up to speed or it'll get to 100 kph very quickly but be flat out!! :) The exhaust will take a bit of working out but the six cyl system will let it breath ok. Let us know how you go!!

[ashhhhh]

Thanks for that fellah's!
I plan to run the Ashcroft High Ratio kit to avoid changing the diffs.
Ill also be fitting the ROAM disc brake kit to the front, funds permitting.

Luckily I walk to work too, so time off not required ;p

[LRT]

What about an overdrive? LRT

[ashhhhh]

Possible.
The high ratio kit is pretty cheap though, and seems to get good reviews.
Less potential failure points too in my mind.

[LRT]

See Global Roamers comparison in the link below:

Global Roamer Corporation (http://roamerdrive.com/faqs.html)

LRT

[ashhhhh]

Yeah except their comparison states that the high ratio kit alters low ratio as well, which the Ashcroft kit does not. :)

Im sure their overdrive will cost 3 times what the gear kit will.

[LRT]

Thats fantastic.

It also means you can still use the PTO for a hydraulic pump etc.

However, you do have to modify the transfer case a little.

LRT

[ashhhhh]

Yeah that's right, and the only downside I guess.
Looks like you can buy the modified case with gears at a decent price though, probably how I will go. (if freight to too much!)

[isuzurover]

Yeah except their comparison states that the high ratio kit alters low ratio as well, which the Ashcroft kit does not. :)

Im sure their overdrive will cost 3 times what the gear kit will.

What is the low range of the Ashcroft kit??? The MD kit was about 38-39:1 instead of 40:1. However it also means you cannot fit suffix B gears to drop to 49:1 - which is the reason I would never get one.

[LRT]

A local engineering shop should be able to do the work.

It would still be cheaper than an overdrive.

LRT

[ashhhhh]

The low range is unchanged/stock.
It only modifies high range gearing.

[isuzurover]

The low range is unchanged/stock.
It only modifies high range gearing.

That is physically impossible as you need to move the intermediate shaft on a series to change the high ratio. Therefore the low range intermediate gear is changed, as are the high range intermediate gear and the t-case inpt gear (and high range gear).

So my question was - what is the ratio??? It cannot be exactly the same as original as the gears are changed. Even if it is 0.1 out, as I doubt they could get iit exactly the same.

To say "low range is unchanged" may be accurate if the gear ratio is almost the same, however all the gears in the box are changed apart from one of the low range gears.

Regardless of the ratio, the same applies. You can no longer swap to suffix B gears to get 49:1.

[Timj]

This is the page on the Ashcroft web site - Ashcroft Transmissions - High Ratio Transfer Case Kit (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=43).

No mention of any change to the low range gears, in fact it specifically says it stays the same. Can only be done with the larger intermediate shaft though which was 2a and 3.

Cheers,

TimJ.

[gromit]

The 4 Wheel Drives catalogue lists the high ratio transfer case but the catalogue is a bit out of date now. They claimed 1st gear low range STD was 40:1 and after fitting high ratio transfer case 39.5:1 but 31% 'overdrive' in high range.

I got an Ashcroft replacement gear from them for my early small intermediate shaft HRTC last year.


Here is another link to a 200TDi conversion.
Land Rover SIII 200 tdi conversion (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fenby/landrovers/200tdi_conversion/index.html)



Colin

[isuzurover]

The 4 Wheel Drives catalogue lists the high ratio transfer case but the catalogue is a bit out of date now. They claimed 1st gear low range STD was 40:1 and after fitting high ratio transfer case 39.5:1 but 31% 'overdrive' in high range.

I got an Ashcroft replacement gear from them for my early small intermediate shaft HRTC last year.


Here is another link to a 200TDi conversion.
Land Rover SIII 200 tdi conversion (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fenby/landrovers/200tdi_conversion/index.html)




Colin

I am trying to count teeth on the ashcroft kit to work it out. The pics are small which makes it hard.

So far I have:

Ashcroft T-case
T-case input: 31 teeth
High Range: 27 teeth
Intermediate High: 50 teeth (???)
Intermediate Low: 22 Teeth

Does anyone have the tooth counts from a stock series t-case?

Standard series suffix C-on is
1.148:1 High
2.35:1 Low (40.65:1)

Suffix B is 2.89:1 low (48.9:1)

Ashcroft is 0.87:1 high ???
Your numbers above suggests low is ~2.28

EDIT: Looks like my 31:50:27 teeth above is correct as it gives 0.87:1
So low range in an ashcroft box is:
31:50 x 22:[how many teeth on stock low range gear?]

[ashhhhh]

As Tim said, it specifically states that the low ratio is unchanged...I didn't just pull it out of my arse.

Well their product description sounds pretty simple, and it's gonna be a heap better outcome than changing the diffs...


That's what I'm doing anyway!

[gromit]

My C240 powered SIII has a high ratio transfer box. The previous owner didn't have any problems but he did warn me it was a bit slow accelerating at times (mind you the Isuzu motor is more suited to a stationary application!).
If I was doing it myself now, I would weigh up the cost of the HRTC vs a couple of s/h Rangie diffs (in fact the previous owner supplied one with the SIII). You would of course also have to weigh up the increase in the low range gear ratio if you change the diffs.

Mostly on-road probably the diff option, intending to use it a lot off-road then the HRTC option would be a better option.

Best of luck with the 200TDi conversion. The previous owner of mine keeps phoning me up trying to get me to buy a Disco motor he got to fit into the SIII. I want to get it on-the-road first and then consider the issues relating to getting the motor change signed off.



Colin

[isuzurover]

As Tim said, it specifically states that the low ratio is unchanged...I didn't just pull it out of my arse.



I know the Ashcroft site states that. I am trying to explain that it is highly unlikely that it stays "exactly" the same when 2 of the 3 gears that drive low range have to be changed.

[ashhhhh]

Yeah agreed.
I'm really just reading forums and reviews by people who have done these mods.
The gear kit gets very positive reviews, and honestly there is no way I'm doing diffs - too much screwing around. (There will be enough as it is.. Lol)

[gromit]

I know the Ashcroft site states that. I am trying to explain that it is highly unlikely that it stays "exactly" the same when 2 of the 3 gears that drive low range have to be changed.

Maybe it's close the the figures in the 4 Wheel Drives catalogue 40:1 compared to 39.5:1 which would give a 1.25% change. Maybe that's considered insignificant ?


Colin

[isuzurover]

Maybe it's close the the figures in the 4 Wheel Drives catalogue 40:1 compared to 39.5:1 which would give a 1.25% change. Maybe that's considered insignificant ?


Colin

Except that stock is 40.65:1, which makes 3% change. Still small, but it could make a big difference offroad.

I have encountered hills I couldn't reverse up in reverse low in a 109 IIA with a load on - despite me having the lower suffix B gears.

[chazza]

The two dowels in the engine bell housing will need to be removed,

Many people suggest doing this, but it is not a good idea, because the function of the dowels is to hold the box in perfect alignment with the centre-line of the crankshaft. The bolts/studs cannot do this because they sit in clearance holes, unlike the dowels. Removing them opens the way to gearbox problems, such as slipping out of gear.

It is not a big deal to drill one new hole for one of the dowels, the other one on my S3 matched with a pre-existing hole,

Cheers Charlie

[NiteMare]

if you're interested in fitting the 300tdi disco engine without cutting out the original chassis mounts take a peek at this thread on the Series 2 forum

300 TDI drivers side mounting - ideas (http://www.series2club.co.uk/forum/forum/index.php/topic,41821.0.html)

also give Swampy2 (the originator of that thread) a shout as he made up his own mount and fitted a remote oil filter to fit his 300tdi into his 88" without chopping the chassis mount off