paint confusion, what to use?

[reg of the overflow]

Whilst my 61 SWB is in drydock awaiting funds for a new engine, I have taken liberty with it and started refurbishing panels and such.

I am rebuilding NOT restoring.

I have got to the stage now where all the little bits are done (interior cleaned and painted, windscreen regalved, new glass, door tops, etc.) Now comes the big things. I have taken the roof off and stripped it ready to paint and the body is pretty close as well.

Question is what paint do I use? inside is simply spray enamel which will hold up ok but outside I am confused. I have read and re-read "how to paint your car" and the more I read, the more my brain hurts.

any ideas out there?

[chazza]

Enamel is relatively cheap and safe to use; gives a gloss similar to the original paint; tends not to last well especially in the sun; gives a nice finish off the gun; needs a mist-coat first to help the topcoat stick and not sag.

Acrylic is usually more expensive; requires more thinner, which adds to the expense; is a very durable finish and in that respect is better than enamel; needs cutting back with wet & dry paper and power-polishing to get a smooth finish and shine; is generally more time-consuming than using enamel; is safe to use, provided that like enamel, one follows the safety directions.

Two-pack paints are very durable; give a brilliant gloss off the gun; have nasty isocyanates in them especially when using a hardener and therefore are dangerous to use without a full-flow air supply to the face. Not recommended for home use!

Cheers Charlie

[reg of the overflow]

Thanks Chazza, there is no rush so acrylic it is. I will look into it more. thanks for your help.

[MR LR]

We do all ours in two pack with a charcoal filtered mask. I would recommend it over anything else. We paint our cars in the home workshop btw.

Cheers
Will

[chazza]

We do all ours in two pack with a charcoal filtered mask.

I have had a refreshing read of the National OHS Commission MSDS here http://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/SWA/about/Publications/Documents/514/Isocyanates.pdf

I recommend that anyone who is using, or wants to use isocyanate paints, has a read of it in particular pages 4 and 9. I had forgotten that isocyanates irritate the eyes and skin, as well as being a toxin.

Unfortunately Will, your charcoal cannister is not removing the poison before it gets into your lungs,

Cheers Charlie

[Slunnie]

I used Rustguard paints with a roller for the blue ute. :D

[incisor]

the army use alkaloid enamel

so did i...

[DoubleChevron]

We do all ours in two pack with a charcoal filtered mask. I would recommend it over anything else. We paint our cars in the home workshop btw.

Cheers
Will

NNNOOOOooooooooo...... 2pack it really bad stuff, it's not just breathing it, it's absorbed by the skin, particularly the eyes. Don't even dream of painting this stuff in a closed up shed...

The biggest problem however is acrylic laquer is crap. No-where else in the world seems to use it except for Australia (I think it's pretty much outlawed in industry due to the amount of overspray).

My suggestion is to make yourself a small builders plastic booth. Pressurise this with a blower. I grabbed a charcoal mask a few years back and modified it so I could blow fresh air into it. My fresh air ?? An cars radiator fan in a box, blowing air down a hose to the mask. It worked amazingly well. The force applied by the fan wasn't enough to open the exhaust valves on the mask, but supplied fresh untainted air. Of course you also need to wear fully sealing painters goggles... I wear double nitro gloves (not latex that dissolves) too. Painters suites are really cheap, and you can chuck 'em or clean them when done.

2pack paints really are the only thing worth using, but whatever you do, do NOT under any circumstances paint them in a closed up shed without a fresh air supply. Protect your eyes and any bare skin.

Have look around autobody 101 forums. The seppos really do know there sh!+ :) They sure do argue about everything though.

http://www.autobody101.com/forums/


On these american forums:

single stage == 2pack urethane, but it's the glossy colour that doesn't require a clear ( So there's only "one" stage to apply). I think the local paint shop here refers to it as "common".

BC/CC == Base coat (a satin finished coating) ... this offers no protection at all and usually has a tiny recoat window for clear. You then must apply clear over this coloured base coat. They also refer to it as "2stage" ... base and clear.

seeya,
Shane L.

[MR LR]

When I said workshop, I meant that we work out of home, painting occurs on the driveway...

Have to look into all the safety stuff though, I thought panel beaters only used charcoal masks, dad does all our painting I'll get home to read it.

Cheers
Will

[DoubleChevron]

When I said workshop, I meant that we work out of home, painting occurs on the driveway...

Have to look into all the safety stuff though, I thought panel beaters only used charcoal masks, dad does all our painting I'll get home to read it.

Cheers
Will

No way does anyone in industry wear charcoal filters. They spray in booths that recycle the air so quickly, so can't even see overspray in them.

Take a look at this youtube clip. This is what spray painters wear with these modern paints. If your thinking "space suite" your not far from wrong.

SATA - How to paint correctly - YouTube

the urethane paints with hardeners really are nasty. I reckon for an old land rover enamel would look right. The problem is it'll take all day to dry, so you'll need somewhere that won't atract bugs and dust ( these can find there way into my home made booth.

seeya,
Shane L.

[chazza]

I reckon for an old land rover enamel would look right. The problem is it'll take all day to dry, so you'll need somewhere that won't atract bugs and dust ( these can find there way into my home made booth.

Shane L.

I agree.

I don't have a booth so I have to take my chances inside my shed. If I pick a still day with a temperature from around-about 25-30 deg. C, the paint usually touch-dries fast enough for it not to be a problem. Occasionally I have had to hand polish out some fly legs:D

Cheers Charlie

[123rover50]

I used enamel on the Tickford but now wish I hadnt.
I am using Acrylic Lacquer on the Royal. Easy to touch up whereas Enamel is not.
A coat or two of clear gives a bit of a shine but not too much as the old landies didnt have the shine that two pack or buffing does anyway.
Keep the pressure down and overspray is not a problem.
Keith

[DoubleChevron]

I used enamel on the Tickford but now wish I hadnt.
I am using Acrylic Lacquer on the Royal. Easy to touch up whereas Enamel is not.
A coat or two of clear gives a bit of a shine but not too much as the old landies didnt have the shine that two pack or buffing does anyway.
Keep the pressure down and overspray is not a problem.
Keith

Don't go anywhere near your enamel car with acrylic laquer (well the thinner mainly) .... urggghhh.... Man did i learn that many years ago with my first car. You almost need to strip the damn panels back to bare metal to stop the enamel "crinkling" up. I have read you can use activators/hardeners in enamel these days ... so you end up with a much faster drying (likely tougher) paint. The issue is again, the hardener like that used in the urethanes is really toxic ***** :(

I find with painting, you do learn everything, and I do mean absolutely every possible issue you can have the hard way ...... :censored: It sure is fun learning though. The last car I painted was a quick dodgy coat with PPG cobra base coat and the PPG high solids autothane clear..... Unbelievable ... the modern paints are incredible to apply... the finish off the gun is staggering. It was like looking into a mirror as it applied.

I'm never using anything but 2pack urethanes myself from now on.... but I do have a dodgy home made booth and an air fed mask these days (and no money or time to paint any of my toys, so I'll likely only paint a car every few years either way :( ... that's sad given I have 3 here right now that could do with a splash of paint).

It strange you mention clear with acrylic laquer. I have painted maybe 1/2dozen cars with acrylic laquer over the years. I found clear wasn't worth using unless you were painting metalic (as you couldn't colour sand/compound the finish, or you trashed the metalic pigments in the paint). If you colour sand and cut it up you'll end up with a mirror finish.

The red car shown in my posts I painted about 10years ago with acrylic laquer. The finish off the gun was crap... heavily textured and it didn't apply nicely at all (I was battling 30+degree heat when it was ready to paint).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1538.jpg

this is how the acylic laquer looks if you colour sand your heavily orange pealed finish back dead flat ......

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1539.jpg

this is the same panel after being hit with a rotary buff and cutters (no polish at all). Acrylic laquer gives the most incredibly amazing reflective finish if you put the work in. the problem is it simply doesn't last for ***** :(


seeya,
Shane L.

[gromit]

No way does anyone in industry wear charcoal filters.



The compressed air feed to the mask goes through a filter, fine filter, coalescing filter and then an activated carbon filter which is on the painters belt (this may be what was meant by 'charcoal filter').
The filters are to remove any oil that is carried over from the compressor because you don't want to breath it in and you definitely don't want it in the paint. The activated carbon filter removes smell.
The company I work for supply the filters/coalescing filters but the activated carbon filter is a proprietary unit used in the spray industry with simple drop in cartridges.


http://www.itwfinishing.com.au/profile.php?product=83


Colin

[DoubleChevron]

The compressed air feed to the mask goes through a filter, fine filter, coalescing filter and then an activated carbon filter which is on the painters belt (this may be what was meant by 'charcoal filter').
The filters are to remove any oil that is carried over from the compressor because you don't want to breath it in and you definitely don't want it in the paint. The activated carbon filter removes smell.
The company I work for supply the filters/coalescing filters but the activated carbon filter is a proprietary unit used in the spray industry with simple drop in cartridges.


ITW Finishing Technologies Australia (http://www.itwfinishing.com.au/profile.php?product=83)


Colin

He might be thinking of the breathing aparatus used by welders these days. It picks up the fresh air supply from your belt :confused:

[gromit]

He might be thinking of the breathing aparatus used by welders these days. It picks up the fresh air supply from your belt :confused:

Most spray painters use a system similar to the link I posted.
The regulator and the activated carbon filter for the feed to the mask are belt mounted.


Colin