Springs or dislocation cones?

[noogie]

Hi all

You may be aware that I recently fitted a full set of Terrafirma Pro Sport Plus 2" shocks to my 110 defender.
Love the shocks, however the inevitable has occurred and at full articulation my rear springs drop out of the top mounting position.
I have a 1" dobinson lift.

My question is this.
If I fitted a set of raised 2" coils will this fix my problem. I would like to keep my air helper bags as they are great when towing.

Another option would be to fit dislocation cones. Are they legal insurance wise?
Obviously I would have to lose my air helper bags and possibly have to fit heavy duty springs in the rear as the rear may sag when the vehicle is fully loaded. Approx between 300 & 400 kgs fully loaded.

The third option that I am considering is fitting a set of 2" lifted Dobinson flexy coils, as they are meant to provide more flex/articulation and I can keep the air bags. The only thing is I don't know what they are like. Has anyone fitted the Dobinsons flexy coils, and what do people think of them.

I use my car for touring, offroading, a bit of towing and just getting about.

Thanks

Mick

[Yorkshire_Jon]

I can't help too much with the detail around dislocating However, I have the +50mm King Springs and air helper bags in the rear, combined with my tough dogs things don't dislocate.

To re fit the bags You will simply need (I'm guessing) a 25-30mm spacer ontop of the axle, inside the coil and below the bag. Frequent dislocating with the bags in place though will lead to premature bag failure.

Needing both does beg the question what do you do with the car to warrent needing the extra articulation from the dislocating springs. For traveling I'd be stopping the dislocating happening and focus on reliability.

Sent using Forum Runner

[Brad110]

Mick

I have dislocation cones on rear for the same reason. Some also have limiting straps.

I can't see them affecting insurance at all.

Other people simply permanently locate the springs with hose clamps.

Your system already does what you want it to. Why spend more on changing it.
The old shocks must have kept the system within limits and now the plus 2" shocks let it extend. (Mind you it looks impressive when it happens.

I considered an extended 'A' frame ball joint as well but don't know much about it.

Spring spacers with the existing are also an option.

Everyone will have a different opinion according to what they have done but it seems that your previous set up was limited by the shockers and now the springs. You get little benefit with articulation when there is no weight on the wheel as you won't get traction.

There are extreme set ups where there are smaller/weaker long travel helper springs that load up the articulated wheel at max travel but don't do much when travelling level on the road. Sounds good in theory but....

I'd either get cones (Andrew Richmond?? Had some) with limiting straps if you wish or research/ look at anchoring the top of the coils.

Good luck with it.

[VM_Motori]

I too looked into limiting straps and dislocation cones, Ended up securing the top of the spring and reinforcing the bolted strap with a larger item on the diff side.

RRC tho but along the same line's

Cheers

[modman]

Retain the rear, it then forces the front to articulate
Otherwise you look like a poser with all rear artic, and no front compensation:o
Hose clamps, big cable ties, mimic the bottom clamp, they all work
Any one can bolt in rear top shock brackets and longer shocks, nothing wrong with that, it works and is pretty cheap
BUT you can end up with a floppy rear and unstable balance
Dc

[Slunnie]

I can't see them affecting insurance at all.


Just for peoples info so they know what guidelines they infringe, I'm sure the guidelines state that springs must be retained by the original method. For Landrovers, they should be captive.

[lambrover]

Just for peoples info so they know what guidelines they infringe, I'm sure the guidelines state that springs must be retained by the original method. For Landrovers, they should be captive.

They are only captive on the bottom.

I had 3 inch flexi coils in my 130 and really liked them I also had +5 shocks and I too only had them held by the bottom.

I got mine from Suspension Stuff, mine were made by dobison but the new flexi coils are made by kings apparently.

I would go them again no dramas.

[noogie]

I've heard that the flexy coils are only suited to offroading and not that good when fully loaded and touring. I do camp a lot and my vehicle is around 400kg of just equipment.

How do the flexy coils go fully loaded and unloaded on the black top?
As mentioned that is an option but I'm unsure what they are like as an all rounder.

[Naks]

Had the same issue with my Bilstein shocks, fitted relocation cones, they work like a bomb!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1249.jpg

[Slunnie]

They are only captive on the bottom.

Captive between the upper and lower spring perches. They dont dislocate from the factory despite the retainer.

[noogie]

Had the same issue with my Bilstein shocks, fitted relocation cones, they work like a bomb!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/07/1249.jpg

Are your Springs heavy or medium duty?
Are they 2" lifted coils?

If I do decide on the dislocation cones I guess I won't have to buy Springs.
I'll be able to use my existing coils.

[ian4002000]

May I ask what are 2 inch shocks ? are they 2 inches longer at full stroke only ? if so why fit them ? if you are trying to increase wheel travel wouldn't you have to fit longer springs and shocks ? and wouldn't this raise the ride height ?

[Naks]

Are your Springs heavy or medium duty? Are they 2" lifted coils?

The springs are OME progressives and the shocks are custom-made Bilsteins.

I got the kit from a friend: there are no progressive off-the-shelf OME springs for a Defender, so he did a lot of research and finally ended up with the fronts from a Disco 1, and the rears from a Defender.

The spring rates are matched, with the rears at +50mm and the front at +25mm.

[flagg]

May I ask what are 2 inch shocks ? are they 2 inches longer at full stroke only ? if so why fit them ? if you are trying to increase wheel travel wouldn't you have to fit longer springs and shocks ? and wouldn't this raise the ride height ?

Whilst I'm not the op, I'll guess..

2 inch shocks are 2 inches longer. Most longer shocks are a little longer when compressed as well.. Which can cause complications so you have to measure things properly. Longer shocks when used with the right springs will give you more axle articulation and keep your tires on the ground in deeper holes. If the shocks extend longer than the springs you need to either retain the springs or fit relocation cones... Otherwise they can fall out or not go back in properly causing great amusement to all around. Longer spring can rise the ride height... But it depends on their spring rate (how hard they are) and static height (how tall they are without your landrover on top of them) too many coils will cause them to bind (compress fully) and too few will cause them to not last very long (sag).

[noogie]

Yesterday I jacked the right rear up until the wheel was off the ground. Does this mean that is the full extension of my shocks? I thought they would extend more than that. The length of the rear shock was 60cm.
I measured the distance between bottom and top spring mounts and the distance was 47cm.
I rang around and couldn't get a spring close to that without going a3" lifted spring which I don't want.
The best I got was 43cm terrafirma med duty Springs being a2 " lifted spring.
The existing Springs were completely dislocated from the Mount by about 50mm when I had the car jacked up.

I'm thinking I'm gonna have to get dislocation cones and just use my current Springs. because the 2" shocks are going to dislocate anyway. The guy reckons the 2" terrafirma Springs won't dislocate with the plus 2" shocks. I can't see how they would remain captive.

Does anyone know how long the cones are?
Downside is I'll have to remove my helper bags.

[isuzurover]

They are only captive on the bottom.

...

That is true, but last time I read the ADRs and NCOP they state something along the lines of: "springs must not unseat through the entire range of travel" or words to that affect.

[Naks]

Yesterday I jacked the right rear up until the wheel was off the ground. Does this mean that is the full extension of my shocks? I thought they would extend more than that. The length of the rear shock was 60cm.

Yes, that is the full extension of the shocks



The existing Springs were completely dislocated from the Mount by about 50mm when I had the car jacked up.
I'm thinking I'm gonna have to get dislocation cones and just use my current Springs. because the 2" shocks are going to dislocate anyway. The guy reckons the 2" terrafirma Springs won't dislocate with the plus 2" shocks. I can't see how they would remain captive. .


It's marginal, but IMHO they will dislocate. Maybe not fully, but even a marginal dislocation will mean they will not re-seat themselves properly. This happened to me when I put the Bilsteins on, and I drove with the springs not seated properly for a month before realising it!

Play it safe and fit the relocation cones. The cones I have are approx 15-20cm. And yes, you will have to lose the air helper bags.

Before you go that route though, bear in mind that unless you do lots of 4x4 trails, dislocation is not really an issue.

[flagg]

That is true, but last time I read the ADRs and NCOP they state something along the lines of: "springs must not unseat through the entire range of travel" or words to that affect.

Yep, I remember reading that too. If an insurance company was investigating an accident .. Say a roll over on a rough dirt road having the axles move so much that the springs dislocated could hardly be over looked for the report.

..but I'm very risk averse when it comes to the legality of modifications.

[noogie]

Thanks Nakks and Flagg.
Yes I do get out 4x4 ING most times I head out.

That was one of my concern the legality of the cones.
What if I got the 2" Springs and retained them at the top.

Do you think the stress at full articulation would be too much and cause any damage. Reality is that ill see that full articulation only occasionally. I've been informed that its not advisable to retain them at both ends but terrafirma sell top retainers for the rear.

I hope I'm not doing your heads in with this thread. I just wanna get it right.

Cheers
Mick

[modman]

"Do you think the stress at full articulation would be too much and cause any damage. Reality is that ill see that full articulation only occasionally. I've been informed that its not advisable to retain them at both ends but terrafirma sell top retainers for the rear. "

Why would it not be advisable to retain your springs??
What is simpler than a couple of hose clamps or large cable ties??
Why stress about the rear shock articulating through 9' when the front barely does 6' of articulation
I'm tipping unless you lifted your top mount that the shocks will go metal to metal anyway by the extension.
Dc

[Slunnie]

I think you may find the shocks are too long rather than the springs too short. A 2" lift spring isn't normally 2" longer in free length.

[noogie]

You're right.
Just gotta sort the Springs out.
I think I'll go the tf medium duty and retain the top of the spring and keep my bags.
I don't want insurance complications that may come with the cones.