Help! Any carpenters here?

[jx2mad]

My usual woodworking problems have struck again. I am fitting double swing doors into an opening. Measured opening at 1680mm Two doors at 820 equals 1640mm So far so good. Measure thickness of jamb at 18mm where door sits. Times 2 equals 36mm so I have 4mm to play with. Darn, the doors will not fit opening, They OVERLAP almost 10mm. So now I have to trim the doors about 6mm each to get them to fit with a gap in the centre. This I shudder at doing even though I have a table saw. I am too scared to do it for fear of wrecking the doors. I cannot remove the jambs as they are fixed in place and square and vertical. Should I just do it or chicken out? My woodworking problem is that everything I do I never leave enough clearance and all my jobs are too tight and have to be recut etc to make them fit. I measure too accurately and cut the same. Jim

[roverrescue]

Perhaps you could plane 3mm off both long faces - will appear more balanced than 6 off the non hinge surface (depending on door design of coourse).
3mm with a good sharp plane shouldnt take too long and less chance of a table saw horror show!

S

[Xtreme]

Maybe you're losing a bit on the hinge side. Are your hinges recessed correctly?
Otherwise agree with 'roverrescue' re taking a bit off each side of each door.

[Sunova]

forget the doors, hang a curtain rail and hang hippy beads! go back to drinking beer!

[jx2mad]

Thanks guys. I taped up the door edges and ran them through the saw. I don't know why I was so hesitant. At least I now have a new skill...turning good bits of wood into sawdust:D:D:D. Jim

[Bardizzo]

You're obviously extremely lucky to have a perfectly square and plumb doorframe!! Very rare those!!:D

[uninformed]

it normally goes something like this:

frame opening = door width x2 + jamb thickness x2 + 9-10mm for 3 gaps + 15-20mm for frame to jamb gaps.

The 9-10mm for 3 gaps I refer to is the gap down each hinge side and the gap in the middle. I like to shoot for a nice 3mm gap at hinges and up to 4 in between the doors. Reason being this allows for paint and future swelling/movement etc. Good quality hinges are normally about 2.5mm gap anyway. The reason you need a touch more down the middle of the doors as when both doors are opened simultaneously, they get longer due to arc being scribed and pivot point of hinge, so to speak, and can bind if not the right gap. Obviously you don't want a big gap that looks like poo.

you need gap between the frame and jamb as no frame is perfect straight or plumb and you need to be able to adjust the jamb to suit the doors. Even if your floor was dead level and frame perfect, the doors may not be....

now remember if you have rebated doors you need to measure of the same face or you could end up making your jamb and opening too wide or too narrow. If you do not have rebated doors you need to know if you are using some sort of plant on stop on one of the doors and if this needs to be allowed for.

Planning the doors would have been preferred than the table saw, but what ever works is best in the end.

[jx2mad]

Thanks all. Doors hung in place and all is good. Jim

[WingsOfToa]

For the next time. Scribe the marking with a razorblade/stanley knife, before you cut, (will help with any chipping). Also at that small amount, it would have been easier to plane off excess.

Door jambs are usually 19 or 20mm, but that depends on your timber, I know NSW leans to using meranti, but here in QLD we tend to use pine, so slightly thinner. Jambs don't necessarily sit hard against the studs, they can sometimes add 2mm plus.

Try using hirline hinges for an easier fit rather than checking out into the door.

Glad to hear you did it. Always is more satisfying when you can do things youself. (Even if the neighbourhood may have heard) :D

[clubagreenie]

Jambs are measured at their thickest point. So XXX (for width) x 30 or 40 x 35/38/44 depending on if they're internal or external doors, material is immaterial.

[uninformed]

Jambs are measured at their thickest point. So XXX (for width) x 30 or 40 x 35/38/44 depending on if they're internal or external doors, material is immaterial.

Care to put that into english??? 99% of DAR timber jambs will measure + or - 0.5mm. What has the door thickness got to do with the opening width?

[WingsOfToa]

I might be wrong Uninformed, but I think what clubagreenies trying to say, is the thickness of the jamb is X. I worked down that way and built that thing that looks like a 3 storey boat hull in Darling Harbour many years ago, and the NSW boys can buy jambs in meranti that have the door stops all built from one piece. Where'as we build our door jambs from 90 be 19 with a door stop on top. Making that 38mm in our terms. Still best to fit doors and pack out jambs from studs afterwards for an easier install, just my opinion. It still dosn't make any difference to door opening though.

[clubagreenie]

Jambs are rebated for wether internal (35mm) or external (40mm) doors. Then there's internal (hollow) semi-solid doors which are 37mm.

[uninformed]

ok some locational differences, maybe. FWIW here in the SEQ and Nth NSW I have hung more doors than I care to remember. Jambs that are single/double rebated or plant on stop, both plenty of times. Treated pine, FJ pine, Merantie, Kwila, Red Ceder, Mixed HWDs etc.

While door thickness may be somewhat an indicator of location, I have hung plenty of 34mm external doors, plenty of thicker internal doors and there are alot more than 3 thicknesses.

Jamb width and thickness will be determined by the wall construction and desiered finish. When doing a P50 finish around the jamb, I always recommend to the builder to go for 32mm thick (at the point of hinge) as this ends up being more stable as P50 has no architrave to help support/control the jamb. Plus visually it looks better, again, without architrave you lose that visual body of the jamb/arch look.

Im still not getting what clubagreenie is on about??? it doesnt matter the thickest point of the rebated jamb, only the point where the door is hung. Where I am 99% of rebated jamb is 19mm at this point and standard non-rebated jamb is 18/19mm so no difference. And the rebate width for internal or external type door or opening will not affect the door opening width. It will only mean make sure you have the correct jamb to suit the door you are using.

[WingsOfToa]

That's exactly correct uninformed.

[d2dave]

The way I trim doors is slow but gets a perfect result. I have a long straight edge which I clamp at the appropriate distance and then use my router.

It is also good if the frame is a bit out of square, just adjust the straight edge to suit.

[uninformed]

The way I trim doors is slow but gets a perfect result. I have a long straight edge which I clamp at the appropriate distance and then use my router.

It is also good if the frame is a bit out of square, just adjust the straight edge to suit.

not a bad way to do it if you have the time. Have you tried a bearing bit and run that along the straight edge.

Not always possible, especially in steel door jambs/frames that others have installed, but where possible, the jamb should always be hung to the door. That is to say, the doors, if new, are going to have pretty darn good factory edges and be pretty darn square. By making your frame opening that bit bigger (say 15mm O/A in width and 10mm in height) you have room to tweak the jamb. Where you place packers/wedges will determine if the jamb alone moves or if the jamb and door moves. doubel doors are always harder to install than singles because you can have to sides perfectly plumb, good gaps at hinges and down the middle, but the tops can look bad, with tappering, different gaps. This can be adjusted with moving one side up. You also have wind/twist to contend with. You want the doors, as they meet to be flush from top to bottom. This can be adjusted by moving the jamb in or out at tops and bottoms, or by moving the hinge/s in or out if you have that luxury.

[WingsOfToa]

On double doors, I like to put abit of flatbar on striker side so there are no outside gaps showing. This also may hide any indiscrepancies if any movement happens in the future.

Personally I try to add wall cavity doors for doubles, as the job means an easy fitout, plus an opened up room if it is needed without doors that may or may not get in the way.

Or I did, I retired after 24yrs and have a more interesting and less demanding job now.

[uninformed]

yep amazing how good a simple bit of brushed stainless flat bar can look on double doors. Even better when the builder/owner ponys up for real weather stops. On doubles this can mean a T shaped extrusion with slots for the rubber seal. Standard issue on AC unit rooms in high rise.

wish I could get out of the hammer game......