front driver side suspension does not raise

[Steve223]

Hello together,

I just realised the driver site of my D3 (air suspension) does not raise. I get no error warning it just stays on road height.

I drove around the block and thought it was just a bit slow to level but so far it has not risen.

Any ideas?

Thanks a lot

Steve

[Graeme]

Does it lower when access height is selected?

[Steve223]

Does it lower when access height is selected?

no actually also does not seem to lower beyond road height .

[Steve223]

actually now it does lower and raises on all 4 wheels again, very strange just drove to get lunch and drivers site still lower after you asked put on access height no change back to normal height and it started working again now onLLAMS red and all raised

[Steve223]

now went back to normal height and only drivers site lowered rest is on LLAMS red height not sure what is going on

[Graeme]

I suggest that you leave Llams switched off for a while and see if normal and off-road heights have the vehicle level as using Llams as well only makes it harder to work out exactly what is and is not working. If 1 front sensor is not working then the suspension system will still attempt to level but in a much more crude fashion, often leaving the vehicle not particularly level. Was the left height sensor or its wires affected by the damaged liner?

Edit: From the WSM

Height sensor faults (hardware faults) and reservoir valve block failure

Retain full functionality with no 'refinements', e.g. cross-link valves inoperative, no compensation for uneven surfaces.

[Steve223]

I suggest that you leave Llams switched off for a while and see if normal and off-road heights have the vehicle level as using Llams as well only makes it harder to work out exactly what is and is not working. If 1 front sensor is not working then the suspension system will still attempt to level but in a much more crude fashion, often leaving the vehicle not particularly level. Was the left height sensor or its wires affected by the damaged liner?



Edit: From the WSM

Height sensor faults (hardware faults) and reservoir valve block failure

Retain full functionality with no 'refinements', e.g. cross-link valves inoperative, no compensation for uneven surfaces.



no don't think so the liner is on left the suspension problem on right drivers site, liner has just some piece missing on front part don't think anything else affected

[connock]

I had what sounds like a similar problem and it was the sensor. Plugged a reader into it and read the voltage parameters of the sensors and my back left was suspect so changed it and all good.

connock

[Steve223]

according to Bruce Davies it is a issue with LLAMS according to him the plugs Graham uses are smaller then the default LR plugs and hence not a proper connection is made. so far I have met 3 people at DP who had the same issue with their LLAMS.

Graham could you please clarify

[discotwinturbo]

according to Bruce Davies it is a issue with LLAMS according to him the plugs Graham uses are smaller then the default LR plugs and hence not a proper connection is made. so far I have met 3 people at DP who had the same issue with their LLAMS.

Graham could you please clarify

On my D4, the fittings are a perfect fit....snug and a nice click.
I would have thought the D3 had the same fittings, but Graeme will confirm.
But I'd doubt that they were not a perfect fit.
Sounds like a sensor.
Brett....

[Graeme]

DPL have an issue with 1 connector on the Llams looms, which BTW is not smaller than the LR connector by my measurements. I will be endeavouring to arrange to look at an affected vehicle (perhaps yours Steve?) as DPL are the only people who are reporting major problems with the connector compared with only an occasional problem elsewhere - eg there are 2 people with replacement looms not yet fitted because after following my suggestions the "faulty" looms are still fitted and working. The particular connector is rather sensitive to being properly seated but I need to look at the DPL installations to discover why they have so many problems. I'm wondering if they are routing the wires in such a way as to pull on the connector. It seems that most people who fit the kits themselves don't have ongoing problems.

Separately I am awaiting delivery of a sample of a different brand of connector to see if it is less sensitive to being properly seated. I'm also trying to obtain a suspension ecu to gut to allow testing of connectors on a real ecu connector rather than a loom extension connector.

[Graeme]

Sounds like a sensor.
DPL read the fault codes which generally show front or reservoir valve faults. The pins for the 4 valves are in the long end of the connector so are the ones at risk of loosing contact if the wires pull on the connector. DPL also listed regular occurrance of 2 or 4 height sensor faults but as DPL don't disconnect the battery before unplugging the original connectors, faults will always be recorded for either just the front sensors or for all 4 sensors if the black plug is disconnected first or reconnected last.

[Steve223]

Graham happy to assist, I love my LLAMS, but every trip have suspension faults (which clear after a restart of engine) but a bit annoying, the drivers site not raising anymore is new though.

I have meet at least two people a DP who as had issues with their LLAMS so not sure whether it's LLAMS or installation.

thanks

steve

[Graeme]

Steve, I can understand your frustration at continually having faults.
I have just advised DPL that I am available next Wednesday, Thursday or Friday to check the installation in a customer's vehicle if one can be left there for the day.

[Steve223]

Steve, I can understand your frustration at continually having faults.
I have just advised DPL that I am available next Wednesday, Thursday or Friday to check the installation in a customer's vehicle if one can be left there for the day.

sure give me a call so we can arrange

[Graeme]

Sounds like a sensor.
Steve's D3's problem hasn't yet been assessed so could still be a faulty height sensor but should know Monday. Regardless I need to look at a DPL fitting.

[Steve223]

Steve's D3's problem hasn't yet been assessed so could still be a faulty height sensor but should know Monday. Regardless I need to look at a DPL fitting.

have the issue where I get at least 1 suspension fault which clears after engine restart at every trip which is quite likely a LLAMS issue, the drivers site not raising I should know Monday DP still trying to nail it down

[Redback]

have the issue where I get at least 1 suspension fault which clears after engine restart at every trip which is quite likely a LLAMS issue, the drivers site not raising I should know Monday DP still trying to nail it down

We get a suspension fault as you do, but no LLAMS, according to the diagnostic check it is a height sensor and some sort of open valve fault code.

I reckon your problem will be a sensor Steve.

Baz.

[Steve223]

Ok update: the not raising was NOT caused by LLAMS but apparently by some
Loose wires and is supposed to be fixed now

[Redback]

Ok update: the not raising was NOT caused by LLAMS but apparently by some
Loose wires and is supposed to be fixed now

Any idea what wires were loose Steve??

Baz.

[Steve223]

Found fault on RHF height sensor cleaned terminal refitted OK NOTE Broken Terminal, terminal has been cable tied, tested terminal no fault found

So just spoke to DPL seems like one terminal has the plastic latches broken and dirt came in which caused the fault they cable tied this now as apparently one other alternative is to replace whole EAS loom.

Keen to see whether this also stops the suspension fault during trips.

[Steve223]

Great! on my way home I thought I better raise suspension and still same issue :-(

After having car 3 days at DPL quite ****ed off

[rb30gtr]

Hi Steve,

I had a similar issue with one of my sensors when I put the GOE Rods in, just to clarify it was NOT the GOE rods causing the issue.

I had some chunky mud on the RHF sensor, and when removed I damaged the sensor, also could have been when I was installing the GOE rods, was an easy fix, and hasn't reared its ugly head again.

My car would actually drop all 4 corners to the very bottom and give me plenty of warnings, looked pretty good sitting that low! I didn't know they could drop so far, it was literally another 1,5 inches lower than access height, but a damn pig to drive.

Maybe yours is not a sensor issue as only one corner goes or stays down.

Cheers,
Ben

[TerryO]

I just had all four sensors changed late last week and on the weekend went back up the Zg Zag with DiscoWeb and Jonesy63 for a recce for the upcoming trip. It is a lot better now than it was last time I was up at the Zig Zag tracks when we were having issues and getting stuck everywhere.

Turned out one side was constantly 36 mm lower than the other side, which explains the rubbing on the right hand rear inner guard with the new larger tyres.

Why four sensors? Considering their price which isn't that much I reckon if ones playing up chances are the others might not be far behind, so I had the lot changed.

[Graeme]

apparently one other alternative is to replace whole EAS loom.IIRC a repair kit is available that consists of a connector and a short length of loom. If not then I would try to get the same from a wreckers.

[SBD4]

IIRC a repair kit is available that consists of a connector and a short length of loom. If not then I would try to get the same from a wreckers.

Try this part: YMQ503220

[Graeme]

Great! on my way home I thought I better raise suspension and still same issue :-(Is there still no suspension fault indication?

[Steve223]

No but I never had a fault indicator in the fist place with the not raising issues, just does raise 2-3 cm less then all other sites no fault in dash board

[Steve223]

I specifically asked Bruce when picking up car did you guys replace the sensor
As with my limited knowledge is just sounds the most likely reason.
The answer was no its nothing wrong with sensor all is working.

Apparently when they looked in to it and raised vehicle it came up with a fault code
( which I did not see previously beside the occasional one off-roading but nothing I could reproduce on command) By cleaning the plug etc. they fixed that fault code coming up ( not sure why the fault came not up when I played around with it a day earlier) but then did not actually notice the drivers site not raising properly! (again strange as its quite visible especially in off road hight).

[Graeme]

Has DPL asked you if you can leave your vehicle there tomorrow? They're organising a vehicle or 2 for me to check-out the Llams installation(s).

[TerryO]

Sounds like what was happening with mine, replaced the sensors and reset the heights with autologic and the improvement was instant.

The way I see it all this dicking around is not worth the hassle especially when you live 200 km away from the workshop like we do. As far as I was concerned I just wanted them to change the bloody things and then take it from there.

[Graeme]

In the UK height sensors were being replaced on the side of the road on earlier vehicles because so many failed.

[Steve223]

Has DPL asked you if you can leave your vehicle there tomorrow? They're organising a vehicle or 2 for me to check-out the Llams installation(s).

Yes I bring it in today Wednesday

[Steve223]

Update:

Seems to be fixed now, due to the sensor playing up before the leveling system was out of whack and a re-set and software hight adjustment seems to have fixed it now

[Graeme]

Re the Llams problems being experienced with some kits fitted by DPL, I spotted today that when they fit the grey connector they push against the wires rather than the shell itself which flattens the wires where they exit the back of the connector. I had noticed this on some returned looms but hadn't tweaked to the possibility that this might be the cause. I fitted a new loom to a vehicle that previously had 2 different new but "faulty" looms fitted on successive days, with the suspension system and Llams now working perfectly after the roughest test that could be produced. I will now endeavour to prove that bending the wires in this manner can lead to loss of contact. Also, the particular connector has a 5-6 mm overlap of the sockets and pins and the shell is a very good fit to the ecu so no shortcomings in that area. DPL will modify their fitting procedure and see if it overcomes their problems.

[Graeme]

The style of the connector that LR has fitted requires the sockets in the connector to be free to float in their housings in the shell to align properly with the pins in the ecu. Many early problems were due to poor crimping of wires to sockets whereby the back end of the sockets became distorted which prevented them from floating. Unnecessarily thick wires probably don't help because they stay flattened which prevents the sockets from moving freely and generally impose too much control on the socket's ability to move. The wire size for this connector was reduced some time ago to help reduce the incidence of poor crimping but are still much thicker than what the D3/4/RRS use and the Vogue uses even thinner wires so further changes will be made.

[Graeme]

This is getting a tad monotonous but the connection at the suspension ecu seems not to be a current issue. With a real ecu connector socket fitted to my test jig, it is not possible to fault the connection by pulling, pushing, wriggling or flattening the wires with either the "faulty" loom removed from a D3 yesterday or from a new loom with unmodified sockets. I've reverted to suspecting the connector that joins to the original connector because most of its pins are shorter than they should be, for which a cable tie is now supplied which must be tight enough to prevent the connectors from starting to separate.

Edit: I have concluded that the cable tie needs to be near the long end of the connector and suggest it is placed between the end pair that includes the thicker black wire and the next inner pair. Fitting the cable tie at the clip can still allow the long end of the connectors to be parted enough to loose contact on the outer pins.