S2A : dragging the brakes into the 2st Century

[jakeslouw]

Well, having been a Series 2A 109 ute owner for a short while now, I must admit that Land Rover's 1950s concept of brakes no longer is appropriate for our roads in South Africa...............not with our road users and abusers that think me leaving a gap between myself and the car in front is an invitation to skip the queue and take the said gap.

Minibus Taxi : 0
LR S2A : 1

So after I'd paid the damages to the taxi and appeased the metro cops, I started thinking that something must change.

- I don't want to spend every weekend adjusting the drums
- I don't want to hit the brake pedal, feel no resistance and pump madly as the car in front with ABS gets bigger and bigger in the windscreen
- SWAMBO has said she will NOT drive Ela Diablo unless she gets some reliable, consistent brakes

So I have two choices:

- sell Ela
- upgrade the brakes

Since the only grinding issue with Ela at the moment is the brakes (electrickery has been massaged with new wires, relays, headlights, globes, etc and engine is a sweet 2.25P, gbox and tcase are well working atm), I started looking around for a solution.

How about Disco disk axles front and back and add a brake booster?

Can anybody give me a short step-by-step on this conversion, with focus on the split system and how to compensate for the hydraulic force to the rear?

I can get a set of D1 axles for $700 - odd.
Do I use a SeriesIII booster and pedal box, or should I switch to a Disco or Defender pedal box and booster?

[gromit]

I can't help with details of fitting the Disco axles but you will have to modify them from coil mounts to leaf spring mounts.

For the existing system you can buy an in-line booster (well in Australia you can) so that would reduce the force needed to apply the brakes but it doesn't increase the efficiency of the brakes.
From your comment about pumping the pedal maybe a complete overhaul of the existing brakes would improve things.

I was out in my Series I at the weekend and I fully understand the issues with modern driving 'techniques' and old brakes. Mine have been fully overhauled but when someone cuts in front......I nearly cleaned up a Corolla at the weekend when they pulled out in front of me at a junction, fortunately nobody beside me so I changed lanes.


Colin

[jakeslouw]

I can't help with details of fitting the Disco axles but you will have to modify them from coil mounts to leaf spring mounts.

For the existing system you can buy an in-line booster (well in Australia you can) so that would reduce the force needed to apply the brakes but it doesn't increase the efficiency of the brakes.
From your comment about pumping the pedal maybe a complete overhaul of the existing brakes would improve things.

I was out in my Series I at the weekend and I fully understand the issues with modern driving 'techniques' and old brakes. Mine have been fully overhauled but when someone cuts in front......I nearly cleaned up a Corolla at the weekend when they pulled out in front of me at a junction, fortunately nobody beside me so I changed lanes.


Colin

Hi Colin

- all new slave and master cylinders
- all new shoes
- all new adjusters

Still no consistent brake pedal.
That is despite two different LR independents trying their luck.

So pretty much up to here with the old system. Add the issues with efficiency, braking distance, ongoing maintenance, etc etc and I just can't be bothered.

It's either an upgrade or else I'm selling Ela and buying an old Deefer 110 pickup.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Upgrading the brakes is a possibility.

Using Disco axles apart from the 60mm wider track and spring mounts etc. The front swivels have the track rod passing below the diff pinion wanting to use the same space as the spring pack. Another option is to use a LHD right hand swivel housing and a RHD left hand swivel housing. This means that you have a single steering lever on the front of each swivel they get joined with a track rod, but the left hand end needs to be modified to locate the left hand end of the drag link.

As Colin says, you can fit a booster using one out of a late Six Cylinder SIIa and SIII, the same pedal box and booster continues onto the very late 1979 4 cyl SIII and the Stage 1. the 6 cyl 3" front drums provide better stopping than the 2 1/2" drums in the 4cyl

The 109, front brakes can be a nightmare to bleed, the problem is the two leading shoes and that the brake line enters to top cylinder and you bleed at the bottom. You either need to power bleed them or modify them using the SIII bracket and running a brake line to the bottom cylinder and move the bleed nipple to the top. This way the air floats up to the top and bleeds out.

You could also use cookeys kit: http://www.aulro.com/...-series-disc-brake-conversion-i-did-my-way.html (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/169784-series-disc-brake-conversion-i-did-my-way.html) The latest version, will require very little modification of what you already have. He would be able to send you the brackets, the modified SIII hubs, rotors and callipers (or advise you where to get the callipers in the US to save double shipping). The retrofit merely requires fitting the Left swivel housing to the right and right swivel to the left. This is because the filler plug will obstruct the calliper (or you can fit an alternate plug and release one side of the calliper to check and refill the oil into the housing.) cookeys kit doesn't require that you change wheels like the other kits do.

For best results the 6cyl booster as mentioned above (although Haystee and Zeuss kits don't bother, I guess it becomes a personal preferrence)

[jakeslouw]

"Using Disco axles apart from the 60mm wider track and spring mounts etc. The front swivels have the track rod passing below the diff pinion wanting to use the same space as the spring pack. "

Spring perches aren't a big issue: some 50mm square thick wall tube welded onto the axle, drill the locating hole.

So what about SOA to avoid the track rod issue?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

"Using Disco axles apart from the 60mm wider track and spring mounts etc. The front swivels have the track rod passing below the diff pinion wanting to use the same space as the spring pack. "

Spring perches aren't a big issue: some 50mm square thick wall tube welded onto the axle, drill the locating hole.

So what about SOA to avoid the track rod issue?Not sure I understand the abbreviation of SOA?

Using spring perches or rotating the axle will either lower the ground clearance or induce bump steer.

[jakeslouw]

Not sure I understand the abbreviation of SOA?

Using spring perches or rotating the axle will either lower the ground clearance or induce bump steer.

spring perches = spring mounts

What I was trying to say is fabricating the leaf spring axle mounts from thick wall square tube isn't a big issue.

SOA is Spring Over Axle like the Toyota Hiluxes. Only negative is you'd possibly need a DC front prop.

60mm wider track would suite me fine.

I'm also considering buying the whole Disco1 axle set with trailing arms, radius arms and rear upper A-arm.............and convert to coils.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

spring perches = spring mounts <understood that>

What I was trying to say is fabricating the leaf spring axle mounts from thick wall square tube isn't a big issue.

SOA is Spring Over Axle like the Toyota Hiluxes. Only negative is you'd possibly need a DC front prop. <blanked out on that>

60mm wider track would suite me fine. <oops I meant 6" 150mm>

I'm also considering buying the whole Disco1 axle set with trailing arms, radius arms and rear upper A-arm.............and convert to coils.Wouldn't that make a Defender?

The reason we don't do the LHD RH housing thing here is that there are no LHD Discos or Rangies nearby. I would have thought getting a right hand housing off a LHD would be pretty easy in one of the neighbouring countries to SA. Save the SOA and DC. Only issue is making up the bracket to join the drag link to the front track rod and that would only be a little welding and other machining.

[jakeslouw]

Wouldn't that make a Defender?

The reason we don't do the LHD RH housing thing here is that there are no LHD Discos or Rangies nearby. I would have thought getting a right hand housing off a LHD would be pretty easy in one of the neighbouring countries to SA. Save the SOA and DC. Only issue is making up the bracket to join the drag link to the front track rod and that would only be a little welding and other machining.

Now I'm lost. Are you referring to the conversion done by Cookey?
There is no way I could get one of those or even a Zeus kit into ZA for the price I'm paying for a set of Disco1 axles with control arms and coils and a second-hand S3 R6 or early One Ten pedal box/MC/booster set.

I have a Rover axle front & rear: throwing disk brakes onto those would be like gilding a turd.

[slug_burner]

Easiest conversion may be to buy damaged D1 wreck, take body off, use D1 chassis, replace body with that of the Series vehicle. You get all D1 running gear and the utility and looks of the Series body. You will need to take a bit off the Series body but if it is a tray then it just means some extra overhang over the back.

If you go the axles only then go with the pedal box and booster off the donor vehicle. Putting coils onto a leaf chassis maybe easier than putting leaves onto a spring axle.

We just need one of the 100" wheelbase series body conversion gurus to pipe up.

[jakeslouw]

If you go the axles only then go with the pedal box and booster off the donor vehicle. Putting coils onto a leaf chassis maybe easier than putting leaves onto a spring axle.

We just need one of the 100" wheelbase series body conversion gurus to pipe up.

Yeah that's becoming the plan. I can get axles, control arms and coils for $1000. Busy negotiating for the pedal box, MCs and booster to be included.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Now I'm lost. Are you referring to the conversion done by Cookey?
There is no way I could get one of those or even a Zeus kit into ZA for the price I'm paying for a set of Disco1 axles with control arms and coils and a second-hand S3 R6 or early One Ten pedal box/MC/booster set.

I have a Rover axle front & rear: throwing disk brakes onto those would be like gilding a turd.No the problem of Disco, Rangie or Defender swivels is that the track rod is behind the axle while the drag link is at the front, but only one housing has a lever to connect to the drag link. On a Right Hand Drive the left hand swivel has the lever. On left hand drives its the right.

If you can get one of each swivel housing, you can move the track rod to the front and connect the drag link to one end of the track rod.

This way you use standard Disco/Rangie brakes, dont need to do a SOA and don't have any problems with the leaf spring pack.

[jakeslouw]

OK just an update on this:

I've started the disk brake conversion on the front axle.

I had to source a new set of hubs as the press-fit studs on mine were a not installed properly and nicely bodged by a previous owner.

The new hubs have nice studs and we have now just trimmed a smidge off the rear of the stud heads so that the defender disk rotors can clear.

The caliper brackets have been measured and drawn up in CAD and I'm just waiting for the engineering shop to get a part from Europe for their wizzy fancy water cutter, then those will be cut and fitted.

Then its early defender calipers, as well as a defender brake pedal, pedal box, master cylinder and booster.

We'll split the brake circuits into front/back and then test to see if we need a biasing valve.

I'll try and post pix once they come in.

Approx cost will be under USD$700 for the whole front end conversion.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

If you use the 6cyl pedal box and booster you can use the late SIII/Stage one master cylinder which has dual circuits already, but you may find that you need to reduce the piston size of the rear if you use the original drums rear.

A larger booster will give better pedal.

[jakeslouw]

Yeah we just found it easier and cheaper to source an early Defender pedal box, MC and booster. The S3 stuff over here is pretty much all shagged.

The bigger Defender booster is a bonus.

Just hope we don't discover all the weak points on the chassis on the first test run.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Defender master cylinder is the same as the late SIII and in respect of the pedal box, whatever you can get.

The Army Perentie 110 oer here use an Aussie Ford Falcon/PBR master cylinder and IIRC a dual diaphragm booster on the 110 pedal box.

[rover-56]

I see you have started the conversion..... BUT

I have a '56 S1 that can lock all 4 wheels on bitumen.:o

After that it is tyres that do the gripping.

All I did was get all the air out of the system and adjust most of the clearance out of the shoe adjustment.

The most dramatic improvement came from making sure the curve of the shoes matched the curve of the drum. most brake shops seem to set the shoe diameter so that they contact the drum at the centre of the lining first. Pedal pressure then flexes the shoe so that it contacts the full surface.
The result of this is a springy brake pedal and less brake force.

OK, I have an inline vac booster (PBR VH40) but I could lock the wheels before I fitted that with a harder pedal push.

I know disks are better, you don't have fade problems, but I don't go rallying in the S1:D:D

Cheers,
Terry

[happydad59]

I have the PBR booster in my Series IIA and my brake problem is that I have to be gentle with the pedal to stop locking wheels up. This is by far the simplest and cheapest way to get city-spec brakes on a Landie. Also, the brakes still work fine when I tow my 800 kg boat.

[chazza]

I think most people agree that the drum brakes are completely adequate; however; the maintenance on them is one thing I loathe. Frequent adjusting; having to pull them apart to clean them of dust; wheel cylinders that never seem to last long; shoes that take forever to bed-in to the shape of the drum; and of course trying to dry the flaming things after wading!

And then I think of my Rovers with all disc brakes. New pads once in a blue-moon; self cleaning; self adjusting; they like having a bath in deep puddles; caliper seals that never seem to need replacing!

Full marks to anyone who is prepared to try retro-fitting discs, as long as it is done safely and I await the test results with great interest,

Cheers Charlie

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I see you have started the conversion..... BUT

I have a '56 S1 that can lock all 4 wheels on bitumen.:o

.....

OK, I have an inline vac booster (PBR VH40) but I could lock the wheels before I fitted that with a harder pedal push.

I know disks are better, you don't have fade problems, but I don't go rallying in the S1:D:D

Cheers,
TerryIf its a long wheelbase with 11" brakes, tell me about how good the brakes are backwards, especially down a steep hill?

Disks have the same efficiency in both directions.

[Seriestwo]

I am nervous about my braking system on my series 2 as I am in the process of completely replacing the brakes from the front to the back. I have replaced the single circuit master to a duel master with a factory series 3 booster. I installed 6cyl brakes on the front but the rears are the original type on a Salisbury rear end. Because I am unsure of how the bias will be, I have installed a Willwood adjustable brake bias valve so I can hopefully get it right. It also has an emergency cut so if I loose a wheel cylinder it will still work. So with any luck the brakes should be good once its completed, but until I get it all back together I am still nervous.

Chris

[rover-56]

If its a long wheelbase with 11" brakes, tell me about how good the brakes are backwards, especially down a steep hill?

Disks have the same efficiency in both directions.

It's a swb, same brakes in both directions.
If the rear brakes on a lwb are set up as described they should be reasonable backwards, and you still have the best handbrake in the business.
As I said, disks are better, if you don't mind doing the conversion.

Terry

[brookvale]

After 9 months of trying to get my 88"'s brakes back to some sort of sensible working order I'm heading for a disc conversion too. You name it, I've replaced it... even had the four new Sh*tpart brake drums machined true (two were truly un-round).
Currently weighing up the Heystee and Torrel (Rovers North) kits. Not so sure that Rovers North still sell them though.
Heystee sell the replacement swivels and hubs. After that you add on your own Defender rotors/calipers/etc/etc. The Torrel kit is (was?) complete but uses (used?) USA GM rotors/pads/etc.

I think it'll be the Heystee route - I have a set of front end stuff sitting on a rusty Def front axle here - should clean up OK with a caliper refurbish etc.

Series bodywork-on-to-Coiler conversion? - Been there and done it. 90's V8 auto RRC with a mish-mash of Series LWB bodywork and Def firewall... It was a great project and it does the business - 100" wheelbase is the bee's knees!

But... there is still nothing on Earth which gives you a smile on your face after successfully getting a leafer around a track using only your wits and 3 levers while all the others used their jacked-up coil trickery ;)
Neil

[Wolfman_TWP]

I've installed the ROAM OFF-ROAD kit from the US, front & Rear. But they are no longer available :mad: .. But I managed to find another place in the US which are making Disc conversions for the Series.. Forbyn Bros. | Quality parts for your classic Land Rover (http://forbynbros.com/) (Very similar to the Roam Off-Road kits)

I still only have the single brake circuit setup, and my Landy (Series III) stops very quickly.. Planning to upgrade to dual circuit soon.

These kits use the Landrover Defender rotors & calipers (Which you need to supply separately, they are not supplied with the kit) . These parts are readily available (1994- Present Defer)..

I am very happy with the disc brake upgrade. Will be better once I get the Dual circuit setup installed..

Wolf

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Cookey's new design uses, Willwood calipers and ventilated rotors and more than that can use standard Land Rover rims unlike Chris perfect, Haystee or Roam. The brackets will bolt to the front swivel or the rear axle housing without modification, the only mods are swapping the swivel filler plug and machining the SIII hubs to accept the rotors.

He just needs to get the batch of brackets CNC'd.

[Wolfman_TWP]

Cookey's new design uses, Willwood calipers and ventilated rotors and more than that can use standard Land Rover rims unlike Chris perfect, Haystee or Roam. The brackets will bolt to the front swivel or the rear axle housing without modification, the only mods are swapping the swivel filler plug and machining the SIII hubs to accept the rotors.

He just needs to get the batch of brackets CNC'd.

I currently run 15" rims on my Roam setup, and the standard rims fit perfect also..

Wolf

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I currently run 15" rims on my Roam setup, and the standard rims fit perfect also..

WolfBut AFAIK it only has a single piston floating calliper, not as efficient as four piston callipers.
It's a swb, same brakes in both directions.
If the rear brakes on a lwb are set up as described they should be reasonable backwards, and you still have the best handbrake in the business.
As I said, disks are better, if you don't mind doing the conversion.

TerryHi Terry

In a long wheelbase going backwards you have only one leading shoe per side, which in many cases is narrower than shoes on the front.

A shorty or early 107 has smaller drums but has two leading shoes per side so will stop the same in either direction.

[Wolfman_TWP]

But AFAIK it only has a single piston floating caliper, not as efficient as four piston calipers.

I'm running Defender 4 piston calipers on the front & defender dual piston calipers on the rear. Front disc is the defender vented type, rear are solid. All standard LR parts..

Wolf

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I'm running Defender 4 piston calipers on the front & defender dual piston calipers on the rear. Front disc is the defender vented type, rear are solid. All standard LR parts..

WolfCan you take some piccies for us? :TakeABow:

[Wolfman_TWP]

Can you take some piccies for us? :TakeABow:

I have some pics in this thread..

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-iii/85644-disc-brake-conversion-32.html#post1901803

Wolf

[rover-56]

But AFAIK it only has a single piston floating calliper, not as efficient as four piston callipers.Hi Terry

In a long wheelbase going backwards you have only one leading shoe per side, which in many cases is narrower than shoes on the front.

A shorty or early 107 has smaller drums but has two leading shoes per side so will stop the same in either direction.

Thanks Diana, I am familiar with lwb brakes.
My post was to suggest to the OP that series brakes can be made to work reasonably well, not as good as disks I know, but a lot less work.
he had already started a conversion, so I was too late.

My S3 ute holds ok on the hills around here backwards, even with the 2 leading shoe front brakes, but I still like knowing that handbrake is there...

Cheers,
Terry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Terry

Back in 1976 I fitted my Series IIa 109 (253V8) with a booster and master cylinder off an LC Torana and I would challenge you to find better drum brakes on a Landy anywhere. But drum brakes still suffer from fade, are unreliable when wet and require frequent adjustment.

You will find many posts of mine on this forum advocating the retention of drum brakes, but after driving a series with disks (Cookey's) I have changed my position on the issue.

Diana :)

[brookvale]

Good to see all these details - thanks to Wolfman - especially for the link to Forbyn Bros in the USA. I'm mailing them now for more info :)

and a little side note:
My SIII 88" (IIA master cylinder with inline VBH40 booster) has had horrible 'pulling to the right' front brake issues for some weeks. Finally someone noticed I had put a 1 1/4" wheel cylinder on the right and a 1" one on the left.... doh! All is sweet now :)

[67hardtop]

[QUOTE=brookvale;2237840]Good to see all these details - thanks to Wolfman - especially for the link to Forbyn Bros in the USA. I'm mailing them now for more info :)

I Emailed them a couple months ago and was pleased with their reply, unfortunately for me they were a little slow and I had already done the deal with Paul Heystee for disc conversion parts. Im still waiting, as he doesn't make the parts up until they are bought and paid for. It seems from swapping emails with him every couple weeks that my conversion bits wont be ready till some time in November now as the foundry he uses has had some sort of problems with quality and safety concerns:censored:. Forbyn Bros kit seems to be better and they have the parts ready to go:D, and a bit cheaper overall. Hmmm wish I had waited a couple more days for their reply, I would have my discs on by now:censored::censored::censored:. Good luck.

Cheers Rod:wasntme:

[brookvale]

Rod, I feel the pain re Heystee...
Greg at Forbyn Bros responded overnight to my questions about P&P to NZ (he's to let me know costs shortly) so initial contact seems good so far :)

[chazza]

The only thing that concerns me about the Forbyn conversion is the "aluminium steering knuckle", which I presume means the swivel housing.

Is it going to be strong enough? Failure of that component could be seriously scary!

The rear wheel disc conversion seems to be a good thing,

Cheers Charlie

[brookvale]

Aircraft? engines? LR suspension struts? etc ;) I'll be more worried about mis-threading bolts etc.. alloy is not as forgiving as cast steel.
On the plus side, the unsprung weight of the truck will decrease and go easier on the springs :)

[Johnno1969]

The only thing that concerns me about the Forbyn conversion is the "aluminium steering knuckle", which I presume means the swivel housing.

Is it going to be strong enough? Failure of that component could be seriously scary!
Cheers Charlie

Yeah, those were my thoughts too.

[67hardtop]

They use those aluminium swivel housings on series LR comp trucks over there with gen3 v8's and auto transmissions. They fit dual calipers to them for better stopping power. I personally would have no issues with using them. Some of the aluminium alloys used nowadays are stronger than steel and a lot lighter.
Wish I could get my money back:mad:, I'd get the forbyn kit for sure:):)

Cheers Rod:wasntme:

[brookvale]

Thanks for the back up Rod. I've never had any doubts at all. Forbyn are just about to get my order for a front set. Not that I'll be using them on any comp trucks :) Neil

[67hardtop]

No problems. Let us know how it goes with fitting etc.

Cheers Rod:wasntme:

[jakeslouw]

Just an update on this: the Defender caliper fouls the hub so now we're looking at Golf calipers. Drat. Was hoping to keep this completely LR.

[67hardtop]

I finally got my heystee conversion bits. How's this....posted Friday afternoon in the Netherlands...arrived my doorstep Monday morning:). Very fast. Thanks FEDEX. Now comes the hard bit. getting the new bearings etc to put it all together. Will start a thread when I start assembly/ disassembly.

Cheers Rod:wasntme:

[brookvale]

Hi guys. My Forbyn set of front conversion bits arrived last week. Very very nicely made - gleaming alloy just like in the pictures... I was up to my eyeballs in swivel grease last night dismantling everything :)
I meant to acquire a 90's D1 to raid for brake discs/calipers but somehow managed to get two of them! A 96 V8 4 dr and a 92 200tdi 2 dr, both with dodgy head gaskets. Spoiled for choice now :) We shall see which one will yields the right parts...
(hmm, one of them is still road legal for 3 months - maybe I'll chop the roof off with my new plasma cutter and use it as a open top...)

Photos and more will be added soon.

[67hardtop]

Hi, hows this conversion going now? I have all the parts for my heystee set up but I am seriously lacking the motivation atm.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-P5110 using AULRO mobile app

[jakeslouw]

Hi, hows this conversion going now? I have all the parts for my heystee set up but I am seriously lacking the motivation atm.

Cheers Rod


Hi Rod

As the original poster, I'll respond.

We are on the last stretch: Golf calipers were sourced, measurements were made, the caliper brackets were redesigned and the CAD image sent to the engineering shop to be re-cut.

We then realised we needed to replace front bearings. Then the Silly Season kicked in: most places closed here till 5 Jan.

That's sort of where it is at now, should be finished by the end of January God willing.

Then I'll test drive the vehicle for a few weeks to isolate any issues, and then we'll start marketing locally.

[67hardtop]

Hi thanks for the reply, I did a quick mock up with my heystee setup and all seems good BUT, seems like the disc mounting part of the hub isn't machined "true". will remove the disc and check hub for trueness on both disc face and wheel mount face, after I check if I installed the bearings correctly, and when I can get myself to doing it. bit of a motivation problem atm:(:(
good luck with it all.

Cheers Rod:wasntme:

[brookvale]

Hi guys.
At last my installation of the Forbyn (http://forbynbros.com/disc-brake-conversion-kits/) front disc conversion is complete!

The only major issues were mine ;) (a) having to get a crusty pair of front rotors and calipers from a late 80's 110 fully refurbished and (b) not being careful where I located the flexy brake hoses - resulting in one of them being destroyed :eek:

The kit arrived neatly packaged comprising: New swivel housings with seals and new hubs with bearing races already installed (I asked for new bearing rollers to be supplied as well so that they were matched).
Also supplied were thread locker (a nice touch) and sealant for the swivel seals; All necessary new bolts and cap screws included, plus an allen/hex key for the caliper bolts - of which more later...

Inexplicably included were two new massive road spring/shock mounting plates. A trial look/offering suggested that my standard early steel Disco1 rims and the 110 calipers would not foul anything on my original Series setup anywhere, so I left them on. Possibly other setups would need the new plates which set the shock mounts considerably further aft.

Two new flexy brake hoses were there. They had banjo fittings for the caliper and UNF fittings for the chassis end connections. All would have been well if I had not fully checked where they dangled ... as it was on my first run the starboard one rubbed on the rim and shagged it good and proper :o
Actually this was a good thing in the end. The NZ regs demand that replacement critical components are 'certified' or of known manufacture. I got new ones made up locally which are just that. Forbyn were helpful on that subject and did provide some documentation which might have given the USA ones a green light - but now I'll not know.

While you're doing the job, make sure you splash out on a full swivel bearing/Railko bush, stubs and shim kit. It was oh so nice to work on clean shiny bits! - and don't forget you'll also be needing axle tube oil seals, and seal runners for the stub axles - don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/986.jpg
The kit as supplied. (When reading more below, come back to look at the stub axle bolt heads inside the swivel housing)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/987.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/988.jpg
All this alloy work was very neat and looked professional.
Forbyn tell me : The castings are 356 aluminum heat treated to T6 and the billet hubs are 6061 aircraft alloy

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/989.jpg
A trial fit of the calipers. Note the very awkward angle on the hex key. This was a downside to the kit. Getting enough torks on them on the final fit was a nuisance.
I would now have removed the shocks to give better access all round.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/990.jpg
Warning! Before fitting the rotor, make sure its mating surfaces are clean and smooth; otherwise it'll take some gentle persuasion to get them to fit properly.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/991.jpg
Another little issue.. The bolts for the stub axle are pre-fitted. I checked they were fully screwed home but noticed that countersinking inside the swivel was not that deep. After I had bolted everything together, the new nylocs only just fitted. I used threadlock regardless. If you are using the kit, check the exposed bolt length first.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/992.jpg
As is typical for Series swivels, setting up the preload was exasperating but we got there in the end. Those fancy digital fish scales were very handy..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/993.jpg
All looks good in this shot :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/994.jpg
Watch out where you place the flexy hose. These original USA ones were 'straight' and thus I had to either have them up against the swivel housing or sticking upwards due to the LR casting thing (where, I think, dual circuit option hose would fit).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/995.jpg
This is a new NZ made hose. I had a 20 degree bend put in the pipe - much easier to trial-error final placement.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/996.jpg
and
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/01/997.jpg

Depending on the lead of the flexy pipes, you might find that you have to re-jig the chassis connector location. To keep mine clear of everything at all angles, I had to be creative and re-route the fixed brake lines.

And the results? - Ho hum.. my system is non-boosted and as I have read elsewhere, simply fitting discs will not automatically give you head-on-the-windscreen stopping power :( But, they are reliable, steady, do not give arse-wrinkling swerves left or right at the drop of a hat, and wonder of wonders, still work after plunging through mud and water..

My rotors were not pretty but still within tolerance. A new set would have been nice but the budget had been blown much earlier with refurbishing the calipers alone so...

All in all a good setup - and the disc bits are all standard LR so easy for replacing as and when needed.
Neil

[67hardtop]

you've gotten a lot further than I have. I will be using later model defender discs and calipers vented style front rotors on the front and solid on the rear. I have had a couple issues with the first mock up but will be dealing with them soon as I get my mojo back:(...lol. I wish I had gotten the forbyn bros kit. nice and shiney. The price I paid for new rotors here was about $200.00 for front and rear. I could have used the old rear ones but what the hell, I thought. strangely enough i'll be using the old brake pads coz they were only just replaced before the guy stacked the defender. Rolled it. swapped all his running gear into another defender so I got the f/r diffs cheap. original front rotors were only just in size so I opted for new ones. U should try to get a s3 booster and pedal assy for ur landy as the brakes will be AWESOME then.:D:D. great setup. good luck with it all....

Cheers Rod:wasntme:

[brookvale]

Booster = yes... on the lookout right now! I had thought about late 90's Disco I brakes but re-jigging the whole braking system for dual circuit stuff with a booster was just too much. Plus the side issue of LR changing the caliper bolt holes' ID. Forbyn's kit is only, I think, for pre-1992 - but I didn't actually confirm..
Look forward to hearing/seeing how your own setup goes.

[dickyjoe]

Interesting to read all the different ways and means of making an old Landy stop.

Quite like the forbyn kit..

Well done all!

[67hardtop]

BUT, seems like the disc mounting part of the hub isn't machined "true". will remove the disc and check hub for trueness on both disc face and wheel mount face,


Cheers Rod:wasntme:

Hi, seems the foundry where Heystee got the rear hubs machined stuffed up. The front hubs were ok. The wheel mount and flange mount faces were machined out of true. I contacted Paul Heystee and sent him a video of the hub mounted on a disc brake machining lathe. The face was about 120th out of true. He responded by sending me a new set of rear hubs machined from a solid block of steel. They were perfect. Best of all it was at no cost to me. Great service. Paul told me that he will be machining all his hubs this way now. I have now got all bits needed for the complete conversion but have found a huge crack in my s2a's chassis:eek: while replacing the front spring bushes. Will have to weld it soon. Still having trouble getting the motivation to do it. Depression sux.

Cheers Rod:wasntme:

[Homestar]

Another option is a locally designed and produced disk brake conversion made by one of our members on here - Cookey. Just bought a set off him and have driven his series 3 with the kit fitted - very nice.

If you get everything like I did, it comes with a new master cylinder (designed for disk brakes) and dual diaphragm booster mounted to a pedal assembly, new 4 pot callipers, pads, wheel bearings, rear wheel cylinders (matched so you don't lock the backs up first), calliper mounts and discs mounted to modified standard hubs.

It's a very well thought out and manufactured kit, and your dollars stay in the Country. :)

Only kit I know of that allows you to run standard steel LR rims, and it all bolts up to the standard swivels so parts, etc are easy to get, and depending on what parts you want, it isn't nearly as expensive as some other kits that supply new housings.

[gromit]

Another kit available from the UK Wild Industries (http://www.wildindustries.co.uk/)

Uses Defender calipers & disks plus you have to upgrade the master cylinder.
They just supply adaptors & hubs.

Would of course need 'engineering' here.

Colin

[Homestar]

Another kit available from the UK Wild Industries (http://www.wildindustries.co.uk/)

Uses Defender calipers & disks plus you have to upgrade the master cylinder.
They just supply adaptors & hubs.

Would of course need 'engineering' here.

Colin

And again, like many other kits you would have to go to a non standard rim as the standard series steel rims won't fit over deefer brakes.

Not an issue if that's something youre happy to do, but if you want the vehicle to still look standard.... Just sayin'...:)

[gromit]

And again, like many other kits you would have to go to a non standard rim as the standard series steel rims won't fit over deefer brakes.

Not an issue if that's something youre happy to do, but if you want the vehicle to still look standard.... Just sayin'...:)

Defender rims look so similar to series rims though......but would add to the cost of conversion.


Colin

[Wolfman_TWP]

Standard series rims are 16". I run 15" rims on my Roam Offroad conversion, which uses defender calipers (Front & Rear), and they fit fine. So there will be not problem fitting standard rims with kits that use defender calipers. Non Land Rover calipers may cause a problem.

Wolf