S2A : dragging the brakes into the 2st Century

[jakeslouw]

Well, having been a Series 2A 109 ute owner for a short while now, I must admit that Land Rover's 1950s concept of brakes no longer is appropriate for our roads in South Africa...............not with our road users and abusers that think me leaving a gap between myself and the car in front is an invitation to skip the queue and take the said gap.

Minibus Taxi : 0
LR S2A : 1

So after I'd paid the damages to the taxi and appeased the metro cops, I started thinking that something must change.

- I don't want to spend every weekend adjusting the drums
- I don't want to hit the brake pedal, feel no resistance and pump madly as the car in front with ABS gets bigger and bigger in the windscreen
- SWAMBO has said she will NOT drive Ela Diablo unless she gets some reliable, consistent brakes

So I have two choices:

- sell Ela
- upgrade the brakes

Since the only grinding issue with Ela at the moment is the brakes (electrickery has been massaged with new wires, relays, headlights, globes, etc and engine is a sweet 2.25P, gbox and tcase are well working atm), I started looking around for a solution.

How about Disco disk axles front and back and add a brake booster?

Can anybody give me a short step-by-step on this conversion, with focus on the split system and how to compensate for the hydraulic force to the rear?

I can get a set of D1 axles for $700 - odd.
Do I use a SeriesIII booster and pedal box, or should I switch to a Disco or Defender pedal box and booster?

[gromit]

I can't help with details of fitting the Disco axles but you will have to modify them from coil mounts to leaf spring mounts.

For the existing system you can buy an in-line booster (well in Australia you can) so that would reduce the force needed to apply the brakes but it doesn't increase the efficiency of the brakes.
From your comment about pumping the pedal maybe a complete overhaul of the existing brakes would improve things.

I was out in my Series I at the weekend and I fully understand the issues with modern driving 'techniques' and old brakes. Mine have been fully overhauled but when someone cuts in front......I nearly cleaned up a Corolla at the weekend when they pulled out in front of me at a junction, fortunately nobody beside me so I changed lanes.


Colin

[jakeslouw]

I can't help with details of fitting the Disco axles but you will have to modify them from coil mounts to leaf spring mounts.

For the existing system you can buy an in-line booster (well in Australia you can) so that would reduce the force needed to apply the brakes but it doesn't increase the efficiency of the brakes.
From your comment about pumping the pedal maybe a complete overhaul of the existing brakes would improve things.

I was out in my Series I at the weekend and I fully understand the issues with modern driving 'techniques' and old brakes. Mine have been fully overhauled but when someone cuts in front......I nearly cleaned up a Corolla at the weekend when they pulled out in front of me at a junction, fortunately nobody beside me so I changed lanes.


Colin

Hi Colin

- all new slave and master cylinders
- all new shoes
- all new adjusters

Still no consistent brake pedal.
That is despite two different LR independents trying their luck.

So pretty much up to here with the old system. Add the issues with efficiency, braking distance, ongoing maintenance, etc etc and I just can't be bothered.

It's either an upgrade or else I'm selling Ela and buying an old Deefer 110 pickup.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Upgrading the brakes is a possibility.

Using Disco axles apart from the 60mm wider track and spring mounts etc. The front swivels have the track rod passing below the diff pinion wanting to use the same space as the spring pack. Another option is to use a LHD right hand swivel housing and a RHD left hand swivel housing. This means that you have a single steering lever on the front of each swivel they get joined with a track rod, but the left hand end needs to be modified to locate the left hand end of the drag link.

As Colin says, you can fit a booster using one out of a late Six Cylinder SIIa and SIII, the same pedal box and booster continues onto the very late 1979 4 cyl SIII and the Stage 1. the 6 cyl 3" front drums provide better stopping than the 2 1/2" drums in the 4cyl

The 109, front brakes can be a nightmare to bleed, the problem is the two leading shoes and that the brake line enters to top cylinder and you bleed at the bottom. You either need to power bleed them or modify them using the SIII bracket and running a brake line to the bottom cylinder and move the bleed nipple to the top. This way the air floats up to the top and bleeds out.

You could also use cookeys kit: Series disc brake conversion --- I did it my way The latest version, will require very little modification of what you already have. He would be able to send you the brackets, the modified SIII hubs, rotors and callipers (or advise you where to get the callipers in the US to save double shipping). The retrofit merely requires fitting the Left swivel housing to the right and right swivel to the left. This is because the filler plug will obstruct the calliper (or you can fit an alternate plug and release one side of the calliper to check and refill the oil into the housing.) cookeys kit doesn't require that you change wheels like the other kits do.

For best results the 6cyl booster as mentioned above (although Haystee and Zeuss kits don't bother, I guess it becomes a personal preferrence)

[jakeslouw]

"Using Disco axles apart from the 60mm wider track and spring mounts etc. The front swivels have the track rod passing below the diff pinion wanting to use the same space as the spring pack. "

Spring perches aren't a big issue: some 50mm square thick wall tube welded onto the axle, drill the locating hole.

So what about SOA to avoid the track rod issue?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

"Using Disco axles apart from the 60mm wider track and spring mounts etc. The front swivels have the track rod passing below the diff pinion wanting to use the same space as the spring pack. "

Spring perches aren't a big issue: some 50mm square thick wall tube welded onto the axle, drill the locating hole.

So what about SOA to avoid the track rod issue?

Not sure I understand the abbreviation of SOA?

Using spring perches or rotating the axle will either lower the ground clearance or induce bump steer.

[jakeslouw]

Not sure I understand the abbreviation of SOA?

Using spring perches or rotating the axle will either lower the ground clearance or induce bump steer.

spring perches = spring mounts

What I was trying to say is fabricating the leaf spring axle mounts from thick wall square tube isn't a big issue.

SOA is Spring Over Axle like the Toyota Hiluxes. Only negative is you'd possibly need a DC front prop.

60mm wider track would suite me fine.

I'm also considering buying the whole Disco1 axle set with trailing arms, radius arms and rear upper A-arm.............and convert to coils.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

spring perches = spring mounts <understood that>

What I was trying to say is fabricating the leaf spring axle mounts from thick wall square tube isn't a big issue.

SOA is Spring Over Axle like the Toyota Hiluxes. Only negative is you'd possibly need a DC front prop. <blanked out on that>

60mm wider track would suite me fine. <oops I meant 6" 150mm>

I'm also considering buying the whole Disco1 axle set with trailing arms, radius arms and rear upper A-arm.............and convert to coils.

Wouldn't that make a Defender?

The reason we don't do the LHD RH housing thing here is that there are no LHD Discos or Rangies nearby. I would have thought getting a right hand housing off a LHD would be pretty easy in one of the neighbouring countries to SA. Save the SOA and DC. Only issue is making up the bracket to join the drag link to the front track rod and that would only be a little welding and other machining.

[jakeslouw]

Wouldn't that make a Defender?

The reason we don't do the LHD RH housing thing here is that there are no LHD Discos or Rangies nearby. I would have thought getting a right hand housing off a LHD would be pretty easy in one of the neighbouring countries to SA. Save the SOA and DC. Only issue is making up the bracket to join the drag link to the front track rod and that would only be a little welding and other machining.

Now I'm lost. Are you referring to the conversion done by Cookey?
There is no way I could get one of those or even a Zeus kit into ZA for the price I'm paying for a set of Disco1 axles with control arms and coils and a second-hand S3 R6 or early One Ten pedal box/MC/booster set.

I have a Rover axle front & rear: throwing disk brakes onto those would be like gilding a turd.

[slug_burner]

Easiest conversion may be to buy damaged D1 wreck, take body off, use D1 chassis, replace body with that of the Series vehicle. You get all D1 running gear and the utility and looks of the Series body. You will need to take a bit off the Series body but if it is a tray then it just means some extra overhang over the back.

If you go the axles only then go with the pedal box and booster off the donor vehicle. Putting coils onto a leaf chassis maybe easier than putting leaves onto a spring axle.

We just need one of the 100" wheelbase series body conversion gurus to pipe up.