Cleaned Sedimenter - should I be concerned?

[uninformed]

I just cleaned my sedimenter that I removed and replaced with a CAV type filter/housing.

Not a lot of gunk but would be only 20K since last clean. Its the black slimey stuff, that looks like shiney rubber and breaks up in my fingers that has me worried. IS it diesel snot? What are the chances of it being in the tank?

see picture (white stuff is paint on the timber work bench)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=70518&d=1388228467

[uninformed]

I take it by the lack of response that there is nothing to worry about?

[Lorryman100]

That is bio slime and is unfortunately a common problem in the uk due to the use of 5% bio diesel mixed in at the pumps. It has led to many an issue on Puma engined defenders with blocked filter ports, damaged VCV's and blocked fuel lines. I keep it at bay by using a diesel additive every few months as this seems to kill the slime. I use Forte diesel treatment but others use the Millers additive with the same result.

http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic24704.html
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic15298.html

[rar110]

I just cleaned my sedimenter that I removed and replaced with a CAV type filter/housing....

This is a side issue in response to above.

In preparation for a big trip I did this same mod but with a Racor filter. With the change of conditions (fuel & corrugations) a lot more water & junk came through and blocked the filter. I carried a spare which also blocked. I had to clean both with petrol and reuse until Alice. I couldn't buy another filter.

The sedimenter would have trapped all or the majority of these larger particles/water and then easily cleaned. I've now refitted the sedimenter and put an in line filter after the sedimenter. I will probably refit the Racor filter after the sedimenter at some stage. That way if I can't buy a filter I can easily bipass it and concert back to normal factory set up.

[dromader driver]

i agree about the fuel fungus/gunk. the sedimenter is doing it's job as the fuel fungus grows on the fuel/water interface. just clean it more often and buy quality fuel. a fuel biocide can also assist. the disposable filters from superexpensiveauto's are also worth installing as a throw away instead of blocking a $30 main filter on a trip.

[Blknight.aus]

smear some of it down some matt paper with your finger.

if it forms tendrils its diesel snot and yes, its time to worry about it. it will be everywhere dropping dewatering cleaning and blowing out every component of the fuel system is potentially on the cards along with a dose of snot killer.

if its breaks up and leaves very fine particles then its carbon residue, normally gotten from injector blow by or blending your old unfiltered sump oil into the diesel[bigwhistle]

[uninformed]

That is bio slime and is unfortunately a common problem in the uk due to the use of 5% bio diesel mixed in at the pumps. It has led to many an issue on Puma engined defenders with blocked filter ports, damaged VCV's and blocked fuel lines. I keep it at bay by using a diesel additive every few months as this seems to kill the slime. I use Forte diesel treatment but others use the Millers additive with the same result.

Defender2 - View topic - Contaminated fuel (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic24704.html)
Defender2 - View topic - Engine power loss and Pre 14th October 2009 faulty ECU's (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic15298.html)

Bio slime? is that the same as diesel snot?

I have no idea if they are adding "bio diesel" to our regular diesel here? In fact Im pretty sure I can only buy one type of diesel here on the Gold Coast. Im not sure if Caltex "Vortex" diesel is any different or just a bloody name.

What are you Oz guys running as additives in your diesels?

[uninformed]

This is a side issue in response to above.

In preparation for a big trip I did this same mod but with a Racor filter. With the change of conditions (fuel & corrugations) a lot more water & junk came through and blocked the filter. I carried a spare which also blocked. I had to clean both with petrol and reuse until Alice. I couldn't buy another filter.

The sedimenter would have trapped all or the majority of these larger particles/water and then easily cleaned. I've now refitted the sedimenter and put an in line filter after the sedimenter. I will probably refit the Racor filter after the sedimenter at some stage. That way if I can't buy a filter I can easily bipass it and concert back to normal factory set up.

I also looked at Racor, they make very good products. I could not get there website to open? and given they have literally hundreds of different options, I had no idea which to buy? The other thing was that it seemed the classic "296" filter is readily available pretty much across Oz, but I figured the Racor a bit harder to come by, especially if heading away from the coast line. Not sure of the Racor set up, but it seems you can run the CAV type either way. That is, filter first and separator second, or vise versa. If you run the filter first, you will get a better job but less filter life. Not sure if you can run your Racor backwards or if it would make any difference.

The other thing to consider is the filter itself. Any idea what micron the Racor filters down to? and how that compares to the "296" (I have no idea on either)

[uninformed]

smear some of it down some matt paper with your finger.

if it forms tendrils its diesel snot and yes, its time to worry about it. it will be everywhere dropping dewatering cleaning and blowing out every component of the fuel system is potentially on the cards along with a dose of snot killer.

if its breaks up and leaves very fine particles then its carbon residue, normally gotten from injector blow by or blending your old unfiltered sump oil into the diesel[bigwhistle]

Dave, unfortunately I tend to clean things up pretty quick. I wiped that down after the pic. I may be able to find it in my shop bin. By "tendrils" do you mean little spirals?

If you look at the pic, the main piece off to the right with nothing else on it, has 2 smaller pices above it. Those smaller pieces are how it broke off as I rubbed it between my fingers.

[isuzurover]

Bio slime? is that the same as diesel snot?

I have no idea if they are adding "bio diesel" to our regular diesel here? In fact Im pretty sure I can only buy one type of diesel here on the Gold Coast. Im not sure if Caltex "Vortex" diesel is any different or just a bloody name.

What are you Oz guys running as additives in your diesels?

Slime (algae/microbial growth) existed long before biodiesel use and is largely unrelated. Biodiesel is partially oxygenated though, which may help it grow.

All diesel in AU can have 5% bio without labelling, as it helps lubricity. There is a french study of long term (100% bio) use in a whole fleet which included commonrail diesels. At the end they pulled the engines down and the bio engines were as good or better.

Your diesel on the GC comes either from the caltex refinery or the BP refinery in Brisbane. It is unlikely any NSW fuel crosses the border.

As for your problem. Put some diesel fuel treatment (biocide) in the tank and all will be good.

[uninformed]

Slime (algae/microbial growth) existed long before biodiesel use and is largely unrelated. Biodiesel is partially oxygenated though, which may help it grow.

All diesel in AU can have 5% bio without labelling, as it helps lubricity. There is a french study of long term (100% bio) use in a whole fleet which included commonrail diesels. At the end they pulled the engines down and the bio engines were as good or better.

Your diesel on the GC comes either from the caltex refinery or the BP refinery in Brisbane. It is unlikely any NSW fuel crosses the border.

As for your problem. Put some diesel fuel treatment (biocide) in the tank and all will be good.

Can you recommend a brand/type?

[rar110]

I also looked at Racor, they make very good products. I could not get there website to open? and given they have literally hundreds of different options, I had no idea which to buy? The other thing was that it seemed the classic "296" filter is readily available pretty much across Oz, but I figured the Racor a bit harder to come by, especially if heading away from the coast line. Not sure of the Racor set up, but it seems you can run the CAV type either way. That is, filter first and separator second, or vise versa. If you run the filter first, you will get a better job but less filter life. Not sure if you can run your Racor backwards or if it would make any difference. The other thing to consider is the filter itself. Any idea what micron the Racor filters down to? and how that compares to the "296" (I have no idea on either)

My new plan is to leave sedimenter in place and run the filter in series down steam ie locate the filter unit in the engine bay.

Racor micron levels vary. I made the mistake of fitting a 4 micron filter. Just too fine. I've leaned a bit since. The 296 CAV type will probably be 15 or 20 micron which is normal for automotive applications.

Racor filter is a screw on type filter. Model R12T filter is 10 micron.

Alternatives that fit are:
Baldwin BF1380
Fleetguard FS19802
Donaldson P502489.

[BreakingBad]

Can you recommend a brand/type?


Fuelset

[uninformed]

Thanks, I was already out and about so picked up some "Liqui Moly" Diesel Algae Stop. (Anti-Bacterial fuel treatment) It was the only one that didnt have all sorts of other stuff like extra boost, top end lube blah blah blah...

[chang]

CAV is 5-7 micron rating & cost about $1 per micron (cheap). Is available in ALOT of places as its used on ALOT of applications not just automotive. I would not hesitate to say it would be one of the most common filters around.

Use Wynns EDT

Wynn's | Fleet Products | Fuel Treatments | Wynn’s® EDT Enviro Diesel Treatment (http://www.wynns.co.nz/wynns-product.php?n=1&g=3&s=27&id=126)

[isuzurover]

My new plan is to leave sedimenter in place and run the filter in series down steam ie locate the filter unit in the engine bay.

Racor micron levels vary. I made the mistake of fitting a 4 micron filter. Just too fine. I've leaned a bit since. The 296 CAV type will probably be 15 or 20 micron which is normal for automotive applications.

Racor filter is a screw on type filter. Model R12T filter is 10 micron.

Alternatives that fit are:
Baldwin BF1380
Fleetguard FS19802
Donaldson P502489.

I don't know what prompted you to swap the sedimenter for a filter that fine. (assuming Racor's rating is accurate).

I know some people who work for Racor. IMHO their products are somewhat overrated...

If you had opted for the combined sedimenter filter setup as most have, you could have retained the sedimenter.

[rar110]

I don't know what prompted you to swap the sedimenter for a filter that fine. (assuming Racor's rating is accurate). I know some people who work for Racor. IMHO their products are somewhat overrated... If you had opted for the combined sedimenter filter setup as most have, you could have retained the sedimenter.

What prompted me was a big dose of naivity, a recommendation that it would benefit the fuel system, and a presumption that technology had generally improved on the Lucas sedimenter. I did like the Racor being a spinon type.

The Delphi or CAV type filter is widely available. But it wasn't on the shelves of servos where I stopped on the Stuart HW Sth of Alice. I was hunting for filters at that time.

I found the Lucas sedimenter is simple and effective especially in the field.

I did notice the racor seemed to extract more water from the fuel. Well it was trapping more water than other defenders I was travelling with. I will be interested to see if it extracts additional water after the sedimenter. Here is a web pic of what I previously fitted instead of the Lucas sedimenter.

70604

I didn't even look at micron ratings until it blocked. That was naive, ok dumb. As I said I learned a bit from the experience.

[sashadidi]

This is a side issue in response to above.

In preparation for a big trip I did this same mod but with a Racor filter. With the change of conditions (fuel & corrugations) a lot more water & junk came through and blocked the filter. I carried a spare which also blocked. I had to clean both with petrol and reuse until Alice. I couldn't buy another filter.

The sedimenter would have trapped all or the majority of these larger particles/water and then easily cleaned. I've now refitted the sedimenter and put an in line filter after the sedimenter. I will probably refit the Racor filter after the sedimenter at some stage. That way if I can't buy a filter I can easily bipass it and concert back to normal factory set up.

is your Landrover a puma?

[rar110]

is your Landrover a puma?

No, 1989 Isuzu.

[chang]

What prompted me was a big dose of naivity, a recommendation that it would benefit the fuel system, and a presumption that technology had generally improved on the Lucas sedimenter. I did like the Racor being a spinon type.

The Delphi or CAV type filter is widely available. But it wasn't on the shelves of servos where I stopped on the Stuart HW Sth of Alice. I was hunting for filters at that time.

I found the Lucas sedimenter is simple and effective especially in the field.

I did notice the racor seemed to extract more water from the fuel. Well it was trapping more water than other defenders I was travelling with. I will be interested to see if it extracts additional water after the sedimenter. Here is a web pic of what I previously fitted instead of the Lucas sedimenter.

70604

I didn't even look at micron ratings until it blocked. That was naive, ok dumb. As I said I learned a bit from the experience.

How long & K's was it left unchanged? CAV are that cheap to buy especially in bulk that it would be very easy just to buy a bunch an stuff four or five in the spares kit when heading off just incase they cant be found.

The filter head fuel lines can be changed to run the fuel directly into the bowl first then exit through the filter to the engine bay spin-on, leaving the majority of larger particles & crap in the base first. That would increase filter life quite a bit.

I have done 2k since install & run the diesel through the filter first as it is better that way to trap water but downside is every bit of crap goes to the filter first so filter life would be less than running fuel to the bowel first.

If all goes well with the flow direction I have setup now at the planned change point of 5000km since install, I will leave it. If it blocks I will swap the line flow to drop into the bowel first.

[rar110]

How long & K's was it left unchanged? CAV are that cheap to buy especially in bulk that it would be very easy just to buy a bunch an stuff four or five in the spares kit when heading off just incase they cant be found. The filter head fuel lines can be changed to run the fuel directly into the bowl first then exit through the filter to the engine bay spin-on, leaving the majority of larger particles & crap in the base first. That would increase filter life quite a bit. I have done 2k since install & run the diesel through the filter first as it is better that way to trap water but downside is every bit of crap goes to the filter first so filter life would be less than running fuel to the bowel first. If all goes well with the flow direction I have setup now at the planned change point of 5000km since install, I will leave it. If it blocks I will swap the line flow to drop into the bowel first.

The Racor filter was replaced just before the trip. It first blocked with rust particles from inside fuel tank, shaken loose by corrugated roads. It blocked a 2nd time with rust particles and waste oil remnants from a jerry can. The jerry was previously used to store waste oil. I emptied the oil and filled jerry with diesel so minimal oil.

I will be placing filter/bowl after sedimenter. I currently have an in line filter post sedimenter to stop particles entering the lift pump.

I had trouble with air entering the CAV type filter/sedimenter. I used grease on the seals and it did seal. However I broke a couple of glass bowls by over tightening in an attempt stop air getting in. I just became a bit jack of it so went to racor spinon type filters. However they are a lot more expensive & more difficult to find than CAV type filters. I might go back to in line filters after I run out of racor and Baldwin spin on filters.

Apologies if this thread has been hijacked.

[uninformed]

No need to apologise rar110, it is all relevant. I to was looking into Racor as they have a very good reputation.


While we are here, can anyone confirm the filter rating/range of:

Delphi HDF296
Donaldson P557111

[rick130]

I may have once had the specs for the Donaldson, but have used either interchangeably over the years.

Last couple I used on the old tractor were Donaldson.