D3 cranks but won't fire

[Gedsar]

The mrs pulled up at her friends place yesterday in her 07 TDV6 with the car running fine. Went out 10mins later and it won't start, I went around and it's got plenty of battery, cranks over fine, just like its out of fuel. Tank is full she just came from the servo. Any ideas on what gos wrong to cause this, have found two common faults on google, crank sensor and key fob. Is there anyway to test these before I start throwing parts at it?

[jonesy63]

Try the other keyfob?

[Graeme]

What fuel did she put in?

Edit: The behaviour is characteristic of petrol having been put in.

[kiwirich]

Hi Gedsar,
Could be the Fuel pump ( HP or LP )

I thought it won't even crank if the Key fob is not accepted ...

Is there any codes stored when you push the Info button on the Lights stalk ?

Do you have any easy way to get the fault codes read?
Richard

[BobD]

What fuel did she put in?

Edit: The behaviour is characteristic of petrol having been put in.



That was my first thought also.

[CaverD3]

First thought for me too.
There is a bleed valve on top of the engine. Ignition on but don't start the engine and LP pump will work. press the valve and see what comes out.
Could be expensive.
Insurance claim if it is.

[Geedublya]

Thanks everyone for you comments. I have spoken to Gedsar (he is an old friend) and asked him to check if fuel is coming out of the bleed valve. I also suspected the fuel and he is going to check the fuel filter.
It definitely sounds like a fuel problem to me so I suspect fuel pumps, wrong fuel or dirty fuel. She has owned the car for a while so hopefully it hasn't been filled with petrol, maybe it got a dose of water.

[Gedsar]

Thanks Guys, only got to it just before dark. Tried the spare key and no go, getting liquid out of the shraeder valve but doesn't smell nowhere as strong as the stuff I had in a drum. Might have been a dodgy batch of fuel ill try and siphon out of the bottom of the tank tomorrow into a clear drum. Def wasn't petrol put in checked the fuel docket.

[Fred Nerk]

Don't lose that fuel docket. It may help support a claim if there has been a fuel contamination problem. Keep a copy if you have to part with it.

[Graeme]

Part with a copy - keep the original!

[Gedsar]

Damn, nothing is easy on these things hey, jiggle siphon not even close to reaching the fuel, garden hose got about an inch into the top I reckon grrrrr.

[Gedsar]

Managed to get some diesel out of it, put it in a clear bottle with another batch of fresh diesel and no seperation line appeared overnight.

How do I check the hp pump?
How do I check the crank sensor?

Any other ideas before it gos on the tilt tray?

Thanks

[Graeme]

Did you get the fuel out of the bleed valve which would have confirmed that the tank pump is working? Swap the fuel pump relay (R103) with another to prove the relay and check the fuel pump fuse (engine bay F4 25A) if you can't confirm that the tank pump is operating.

[Gedsar]

Tank pump is working, getting fuel out of the valve on top of the engine

[Graeme]

Have you checked the battery voltage? Cranking is no indication that its high enough although a failing battery wouldn't crank for long.

[Ean Austral]

Has anyone ever heard of a C A Senser failing on a D3. I have been trying to see where it is but no luck picking it out from all the other senders on the car.

Cheers Ean

[Gedsar]

It came up on a few of my google searches, apparently it's on the lhs of the block near the starter motor.

[Geedublya]

The problem has been found however the resolution is not easy.

The idler pulley bracket for the cam belts has cracked and broken releasing tension on the cam belts. The clue was that there was a cam sensor error.
Apparently they are seeing this problem fairly frequently and there is an upgraded bracket which has webbing to strengthen it.

The mechanic has told them that the whole motor requires replacement. They have offered the owner $4-5000 to buy it to wreck.

As the motor was not running when it failed (it appears that the problem occurred while trying to re-start) I'm thinking that there may just be just some bent valves.

Has anyone had the heads off a 2.7l TDV6? Has anyone replaced valves?

It seems silly to wreck a whole car just because of some bent valves and a broken pulley bracket.

[sheerluck]

That idler pulley bracket as you're describing it, is actually the oil pump housing, and yes, it is a known problem.

If you have a search around on Disco3.co.uk, you'll find a few on there that have rebuilt heads successfully. Apparently it's easier to do if you can take the body off.

[Rich84]

Sounds like the infamous oil pump issue - your mechanic is correct, it's not an uncommon issue on TDV6s... The original oil pumps (front cover of the engine) on all TDV6s but apparently even more so on 07-09MY were cast using a soft metal - would be ok if the pump didn't have the mounting for the timing belt tensioner cast into it. The mount combined with the metal choice means that occasionally the whole tensioner can break off and that a death sentence to at least the valves.


You should be able to get new valves, but like everything else on this engine, it's not a walk in the park. It would be worth removing the engine to see if anything else is damaged. I'm assuming you won't want to take the $4-5K.


This is NOT a maintenance issue and LR know about the problem - hence the revised oil pump which does indeed have a lot more webbing and is cast from a different alloy. A lot of guys in the UK seem to be having success getting LR to replace the engines, as this is a major design fault that LR know about and have not issued a recall. Might be worth having a lawyer look at the case. ESPECIALLY if the car had <168K as it hasn't even made it to LR's specified interval for T/Belt. Hence not fit for purpose.


Check this thread on disco3.co.uk
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Cam belt tensioner mount failure survey (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic80001.html)


So sorry that this has happened to you

[PhilipA]

I just had a google and you may be lucky that it didn't start as the outcome would have been possibly a broken crank if it happened while the engine was running.
What is it with Land Rover and oil pumps? TD5 bolt falls out,TDV6 bracket breaks. Perhaps they should fire their oil pump designer.LOL

Maybe this is what happened with the bloke a few weeks ago who had the crank break the first day he bought it.
Regards Philip A