Traxide question(s).

[oradba69]

I have done some extensive reading on charging a 2nd and or 3rd battery.
Are my following assumptions correct regarding the Traxide system?

The Discos(4) alternator pumps out 130 amps (in comparison to other brands 55-60), but it does not supply this all the time.
It 'monitors' the cranking battery and if it is sufficiently charged it 'disconnects' the alternator.
Problem is with a 2nd battery is that it is not part of the monitoring process and thus dont get sufficient charge when the cranking battery is fully charged.
With the Traxide system I get the idea that the second battery is part of the system and as long as both are not charged sufficiently the alternator will keep on charging.
There are two other features I also like about the traxide system and that is 'automatic' start assist from the 2nd battery if the main battery is flat for one or other reason. If I put my 2nd battery in the loadbay what will be the minimum wire thickness to connect all of this?(Asuming I use the USI-160)
The second is that if I make it part of my current trailer charging wire that connects at my tow hitch it means I can plug a 220v battery charger in at this plug and it will charge both batteries simultaneously.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

[drivesafe]

Hi oradba69 and sorry this reply is so long but you pretty well have it.

Your D4 has a 180 amp alternator and my system takes advantage of this with any type of battery being used as an auxiliary battery.

BUT, to gain the best results, fitting an Optima D34 Yellow Top battery will increase the operating advantages of my isolators.

How this works is that when you first start your motor, the D4’s BMS ( Battery Management System ) keeps the alternator in a freewheeling state, and monitors the state of the cranking battery for anything up to a couple of minutes.

This is done via the cranking battery’s earth lead, and this is also the reason nothing can be connected to the negative terminal of your cranking battery.

Once the BMS has determined the charge state of your cranking battery, it then sets the voltage level of the alternator and sets the time the alternator will run at a higher than normal voltage level, to get the cranking battery up to the required state of charge.

This is where my isolators unique operating system comes into play.

All other isolators literally turn on when the motor states and turn off when the motor stops, or shortly there after.

My isolators remain on long after the motor has been turned off, which means, if you are power some accessories, like a fridge, the fridge is being powered by both the auxiliary battery and the cranking cranking battery.

This is where the first benefit of my isolators comes in to play.

When the motor is started, the BMS monitors the cranking battery and determines the cranking battery is in a lower state than it should be and is in need of more charging than usual.

Again the BMS set the alternator voltage at a higher level and keeps it there for a longer time.

The neither the BMS or the alternator controls where the current draw is going, the alternator just produces the current being demanded by the D4, and this means you are fast charging the cranking battery and the auxiliary battery at the same time.

No matter what type of battery the auxiliary battery is, it will still receive a high voltage charge while the cranking battery is.

BUT, if the auxiliary battery is an Optima Yellow Top, then the battery will actually recharge much, MUCH faster then the cranking battery, so every time you turn your motor off, the Optima will always be in a higher state of charge than the cranking battery.

This is where an another unique advantage of my isolators come in.

Because the auxiliary battery is always in a higher state of charge when you turn the motor off, the Optima will slowly discharge back into the cranking battery and continues to charge the cranking battery long after the motor was turned off.

This process progressively charges the cranking battery, a little at a time but eventually gets the cranking battery to a fully charged state.

So my isolators not only “TRICK” the D4’s alternator into charging the auxiliary battery better than any other form of charging, but this also results in the cranking battery being maintained in a higher state than anything else can achieve.

To your last question about using the rear Anderson Plug to charge both batteries. Yep this works and is the reason many D3 and D4 owners go for the full cable kit, even if they don’t own a camper trailer or caravan, so the can charge the batteries, if needed, without to leave the D4 unlocked and with the bonnet up.

BTW you can use a battery charger or solar to charge the d4’s batteries, but you can go the other way. If you have a camper trailer or caravan and like to set up and do some free camping, if you still do a bit of driving, you can plug an inverter into the D4’s rear Anderson plug and run an ordinary 240vac extension cord to a battery charger in the camper trailer or caravan and charge the house battery, and keep it charged without ever going near a mains power supply.

[oradba69]

Wowwwww thanks a lot for that extensive answer. BTW I popped you a mail yesterday with many of the same questions.
While I have you here. Battery in the load bay no problem?
Thickness of the wire to the back? As stated I do have a wire currently running from the battery to the tow hitch for the battery in my trailer. Was thinking of using this wire to charge the one in my load bay as well, just not sure it is thick enough to assist in the cranking.
In such a setup as mentioned will I fit the 160 in front or rather at the back close to the 2nd battery?
Thinking of using the following battery in the back, your thoughts will be appreciated.
http://www.northstarbattery.com/1.0.1.0/215/NSB%20100FT%20Red%20Battery%20SES-542-53.pdf

Thanks for your help Tim

[drivesafe]

Hi again Louis and while you could run thick enough cable to be able to use the USI-160, to jump start if you ever needed to, the cost of and additional work required to fit the larger cable is really not justified when it is unlikely that you would ever need to jump start more than two or three times over the life span of the vehicle.

A better suggestion, if your are going to fit the battery in the rear cargo area ( loadbay ) is to fit the battery in a battery box with an Anderson plug connecting the battery to the cable loom.

In the event of a flat cranking battery, just take the auxiliary battery up to the engine bay and jump start the D4 that way.

My original D4 kits were set up with the battery in the rear cargo area as it was not known if the engine bay would get too hot for an auxiliary battery.

With the present set up for D4s, you would not be able to fit the battery tray because you have the air intake box there.

What I suggest is to fit the second battery in the auxiliary battery compartment on the driver’s side of the engine bay. You will need to reposition few components mounted in the compartment but this is fairly straightforward and is how all my North American and European customers set their D4s up, using any of my D3 dual Battery kits.

As to that battery. While there is no specific info stating that these battery’s should not be used in a cyclic situation, but going on the info provided, this is a COMMUNICATIONS type STANDBY battery and would probably not last very long at all in an RV set up.

Correct charging these types of batteries is critical to get a long life and they usually have a maximum voltage tolerance of 14.1v, so the way any vehicle charges would not be recommended but with the D4 capable of charging at up to 15.5v, I think your battery would be stuffed after just a few uses.

I think you would be far safer to stick with a conventional lead acid battery, AGM or Wet Cell.

[ytt105]

Tim
As with all your responses, very helpful. I'm starting to understand how the car works.
However, another question. A friend of mine has a RSS, 3.6TDV8. He doesn't have any extra battery, but wants to power a 3 way fridge on 12v.
He knows this will not be very successful, but if it maintains 'cool' that will probably be good enough.
From your above response it appears that the alternator will not 'rise' to the occasion as the cranking battery will probably be fine.
Should he wire the fridge to the battery in the van, and then the van to the car, and then run the fridge for a bit to pull the volts from the batteries down a bit to force the alternator into life.

Of course what he should do is install a Traxide and dual battery system as I have.

[drivesafe]

Hi ytt105 and again, sorry for the long reply.

Because your mates cranking battery is not being used while the motor is off, there will be no real benefit as would be the case in Louis’s set up.

BUT!

This type of house battery/fridge power supply is now a problem with a number of vehicles with low operating voltages, not just Land Rovers.

One option which only addresses the charging of the house batteries but does nothing for the fridge supply is to use a DC/DC device.

This is not the solution and I came to this conclusion a few years back but it was not till a new Australian invention became available that I was able to offer a better and safe way to both charge the house batteries and power the fridge at the same time.

I developed a set up using a Sterling 12vdc to 240vac inverter, to power a ProMariner or Sterling Battery Charger, which is then used to charge the house batteries and power a 3 way fridge at the same time.

While you could use any inverter and/or battery charger, but there reason I developed my system around these specific devices.

I use the Sterling Inverters, because I can now supply the Sterling inverters with an RVD pre-installed in the inverter.

An RVD ( Residual VOLTAGE Device ) is a device that replaces an RCD ( Residual CURRENT Device ). The RVD is far superior to an RCD and the RVD is an Australian patented invention.

So this makes my inverters much safer than anything else.

Then by using the Sterling or ProMariner battery chargers, you have three separate outputs and this dramatically simplifies the installation and operation of my set up.

You connect the house batteries to one output and the 3 way fridge to another output and this will allow the batteries to be charged and the fridge to be power while you are driving.

As soon as the motor is turned off, the inverter shuts down and the battery charger is turned off.

Because the house batteries and the fridge are on separate circuits coming from the charger, when the charger turns off, the fridge automatically remains electrically separated from the house batteries.

This system can be set up with any of the ProMariner or Sterling chargers, right up to their 60 amp battery chargers.

Also by using this set up over an ordinary DC/DC type set up, while you are at a powered site, the same charger can be used to charge the house batteries off the mains and while camping, the inverter can be used to supply 240VAC when needed.

So ytt105, this might be what your mate needs.

[ytt105]

Never apologise for a lengthy reply full of good info. I love them!

My mate isn't worried about charging the house battery as the solar panel does that by mid morning. He's only powering some LED lights in the van.

However, the fridge can lose a lot of 'cool' over a days travelling.

So from your reply I'm thinking that he may not have that much success with running on 12v as he intends.

I use an inverter to power my fridge on 240v, via a connection to the 100ah AGM house battery, which is connected to the 80ah AGM in the rear of the D3, (where the kids seat used to be), connected to a 60ah car battery under the bonnet, connected to a Traxide SC80, connected to the cranking battery. Also, have 80watt solar panel permanently on the van roof.

So far so good!

[oradba69]

Tim
thanks a lot man. Hopefully some last thoughts/questions.
Best way then seems to go for an installation like this one:
Traxide dual battery kit on LR4 - Expedition Portal (http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/111179-Traxide-dual-battery-kit-on-LR4?highlight=dual+battery)
What I would like to know is do I keep my trailer connection as it is currently?(wire running from cranking battery to tow-hitch or do I rather get the USI-160 and run the connection via that
If we have the correct optima battery in South Africa (http://www.bushpower.co.za/products.asp?pid=200) and looking at its dimensions I wonder if this 85AH battery wont also be a possibility since it seems only to be 4mm longer and 26mm higher (might be an issue):
http://www.bushpower.co.za/products.asp?pid=575
If it does fit will it be a possibility/recommended?

[oradba69]

Tim
I think that 85AH will be a tight fit and am rather going for this one:
BushPower - Products (http://www.bushpower.co.za/products.asp?pid=582)
Only question that remains is if I should order the 80 or the 160 from you?

[oradba69]

I posted this on our South African 4x4community board.

After being given a very rude email answer and then just being flat ignored by the very 'well respected' company that did my previous dual battery install, this tale took a turn for the better.
Sadly I had to rely on Australians and Americans to make my install possible.
As mentioned in other threads I decided on the Traxide system for my dual battery. In all the OZ and US installs they use the Optima yellow top 55AH battery as 2nd battery. I was looking around and after lots of measurements I decided on a 70AH Deltec lead Crystal battery. It was cheaper and had all the other benefits of a lead crystal over a deep cycle battery.
Since Lani is still under warranty I had to have it installed by a Land Rover approved installer. This took the dealer mentioned above off the list.
I was pointed towards Lazarus fitment centre in Centurion. I met up with a young man called Calvin. I must confess that my first thoughts when shaking the young mans hand was one of doubt that he will do a proper job on my beloved Lani.
Without going into too much detail my doubts were totally baseless and wrong.
His knowledge is vast, he is willing to listen to every small issue I might have. He kept me in the loop. He always replies to emails and he was willing to fit a system he never worked with before.
Calvin young man I salute you.
It took them a bit more than a day to install the system, add 3 new outlets in the back, reroute my Brad Harrison trailer cable from the main battery to the new 2nd battery and they also installed an ARB compressor behind the headlight for me.
I can honestly say that it is a top notch install and I would like to believe its the biggest(70AH) 2nd battery ever fitted in a V8 D4.
Need to still fit a battery monitor to check the 2nd battery and will test the system properly on our Rhodes trip next week.

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