Defender 130 Salisbury Pinion preload advice needed.

[Svengali0]

Sorry if you have read or responded to this earlier, the first posting of this disappeared in the system crash 12/2/14.

7/96 MY. 130 crew/tray. 306km on the clock, lots of documentation (receipts) to 223k- very little for last 83k.

It is a recent purchase. Motor & box good. Noisy tappets, transfer case a bit whiny.

I'm steadily going through and sorting various items. The word 'neglect' comes to mind.

The rear Salisbury axle- Has dry half shafts (maxi) at the flanges, flogged on the long side. Rear brake discs flogged, metal on metal. Propshaft UV's good. Diff was quiet driving it home- 130km trip. All the pads since found to be way down, each disc including the front were beyond minimal thickness- but coming down off the Clyde mountain- still really good brakes- no shuddering and nice progression. Didn’t expect to find them completely shagged but still, I’m impressed.

Replaced the ruined half shaft & drive flange. New brakes. Pulled and serviced the bearings. Drained the oil on the Salisbury -less than a litre (mmm), no nasty bits of steel in there though.

Found a receipt from a workshop in Brisbane for 'repair' of filler plug. This consisted of installing a bronze plug (similar to an LT95 drain plug) with incorrect depth and thread. This did not work (by now, I’m wondering how many other ‘repairs’ were performed by this clown). That plug had been sitting in there for a while too.

OK, I go ahead and replace the rear cover. Seems ok inside- no lateral movement at the crown wheel, no irregularities or chips or whatever on the gear faces etc.
Fill with EPX 80/90. Next afternoon come home and '*&^%$#...What's that Damn puddle of fresh oil under the diff?'

Getting an impression that this is one of the Rover's that finds new ways of dripping fluid where there was previously none- while your head is turned.

Anyway- I go ahead and order a new flange and a Viton seal.

Yesterday, pull the propshaft off and low and behold- the flange nut isn’t tight. The flange is shifting up and down on the seal- no wonder it dripped when filled (again, my thoughts go back to the idiot that replaced the rear plug- possible they half-filled the case to avoid any obvious dripping… a ‘concrete warranty’ perhaps).

So- I go ahead and pull the flange- no use marking it, or taking note of the number of turns to remove the nut. Pull the old seal- there from new by the looks of it. Inspect the pinion shaft, pull the oil slinger washer, pull the outer bearing- seems good. Clean, re-insert, install the Viton seal- this seems to be sitting flush with the casing. Mmmm.

Grease and insert the drive member. Inspect threads of nut and end of pinion. Begin to tighten it up- hang on- there’s a process here. Check the factory manual- tighten to between 90 to 160 nm. I elect to tighten somewhat lower- around 114nm.

Now I have too much resistance on the free turning of the flange after inertia (wheels off the ground), when able to turn the flange in direction of drive, it feels a bit lumpy (free turn with effort (backlash), then a bit resistant- like too much pressure on the bearings), there’s a slight ‘click’ sound on take-up (assuming a bit of wear on the spline faces).

So, I pulled the flange off again and left it at that for the night.

Anyone with advice?

[Didge]

Hi Svengali0.
The following is an extract from section 51 of the 96 Defender manual I have. Can email it to you if you like. Note the torque settings. 34,5 kgf cm equates to 3.38329425 Nm (Convert kg-cm to N-m - Conversion of Measurement Units (http://www.convertunits.com/from/kg-cm/to/N-m)) which is almost just hand tight. There's another thread on here where I enquired about doing this job and lots of people spoke about how tight the flange nut is, but the manual settings suggest it shouldn't be.


95. Alternately tighten flange nut and check drive
pinion resistance to rotation until following
figures are achieved, as applicable:
A. Assemblies re-using original pinion bearings:
17,3 to 34,5 kgf cm.
B. Assemblies with new pinion bearings: 34,5 to
46,0 kgf cm.
NOTE: Once the bearing spacer has
started to collapse the torque resistance
build-up is rapid, therefore check
frequently, using a spring balance, to ensure the
correct figures are not exceeded, otherwise a new
collapsable bearing spacer will be required.
cheers Gerald
ps what is the Viton seal?

[Svengali0]

Thanks Didge.
Mate I'm not sure what to make of this. When I pulled the propshaft off, the nut wasn't loose as such but the flange was!! I did a lot of checking around and came across a forum entry from one our colleagues (Justinc) with specific advice- tighten to under 90nm- other overseas LandRover forums spoke about going all the way to 150 ft lbs as the original tightening spec was 250 ft lbs (relative to crush of that spacer). I know these diffs can be punished for a long time but it goes against the grain for me to leave it as it is.
In any event, I have ordered new bearings and crush spacer and will hand it over to some place that can do it on a hoist. I hate to do this. I hate farming work out not least because I trust few workshops to do the job but I live a distance away from a proper Land Rover place (nearest is Ray Spence up in Canberra).
I'm in the middle of the timing belt as we speak (mess all over the floor) so it's on the back burner for a week or two.
Funny, I never had to worry about any of this stuff with my old 110 and 109 isuzu
powered L/Rs. I'm now thinking somewhere along the line, a 4bt1T is gonna find it's way into that engine bay.
What delicate little flower that 300TDi is...
actually, the whole bloody vehicle is really. Wondering why.

[Didge]

Yeah, I'd rather do the work myself where possible firstly cos of cost and secondly so I learn about how it all goes together for the obvious bush breakdowns but the reality is, even in the bush, you're likely to come across problems that can't be fixed.
As for diffs, nearly all the conventional wisdom I've come across on here suggests you leave them to the experts and the pinion gear is apparently a bugger to get right, so in changing the bearings you're probably best getting a workshop guy to do that and yep, I'm not trusting of them either. I'd like the isuzu donk as well, but my 300tdi has been faulltess in itself apart from the new suspected rear main bearing seal leak :(
Good luck with whichever course of action you choose. I'd be interested to know to what torque the flange nut is tightened :)

[steveG]

My previous reply was lost in the crash, but I'd pull the axles out first, and just nip it up until you start to feel a slight increase in rotational resistance. It should be happy like that until you can get it sorted properly.

The crush spacer is behind the front pinion bearing, and can be replaced without taking the pinion out. It's bloody tight to start the crush, and I doubt you'd do it lying under the vehicle. I did mine with the entire diff out on trestles and it was still a bit of a struggle.

Any diff place can replace the pinion bearings for you - it doesn't have to be a LR mechanic.
Its also pretty do-able yourself if you've got a press to fit the rear (larger) pinion bearing, and a DTI to check the backlash etc.

Steve

[Svengali0]

My previous reply was lost in the crash, but I'd pull the axles out first, and just nip it up until you start to feel a slight increase in rotational resistance. It should be happy like that until you can get it sorted properly.

The crush spacer is behind the front pinion bearing, and can be replaced without taking the pinion out. It's bloody tight to start the crush, and I doubt you'd do it lying under the vehicle. I did mine with the entire diff out on trestles and it was still a bit of a struggle.

Any diff place can replace the pinion bearings for you - it doesn't have to be a LR mechanic.
Its also pretty do-able yourself if you've got a press to fit the rear (larger) pinion bearing, and a DTI to check the backlash etc.

Steve


Thanks Steve. For the life of me, I remembered only part of your original reply. I ended up torquing the nut, starting at around 90nm, then upping it- checking preload, increase torque on the nut, check pre-load again, do this four times. I stopped at about 130nm when there was a little preload (not enough though), but that damned bearing started to feel 'lumpy'. I hate that feeling coming from a bearing.

I know these salisbury type diffs are fitted to all sorts of cars- Dana 60's in Jeeps, Holden Overlanders, Holden one tonners etc etc so the local transmission repairer should be able to do it readily.

These diffs really are 'set and forget'- I've had lots of series cars (I mean, lots- most of em with that dreaded 2.3 N/A diesel, but also two stage one 3.9 D and a 110 3.9 as well as a civi 6x6) with the salisbury rear end and apart from front seal issues, I have never had a problem. That's why i was commenting on the later cars (ie, Defenders).

mmm.

[steveG]

Not sure what you define as "not enough" preload, but in this situation I'd just do it up until you start to feel a slight increase when rotating it with your fingers. As long as you've got just a smidgeon more than taking up the play its not going to flog around much and will be pretty happy. Too tight and it could be a rapid failure particularly if the bearings have seen better days.

Should get you going while you arrange to sort it out properly.

Steve