DRIVING STYLE WITH LOADED ROOF RACK

[voltron]

I've had my roof rack off for the last month and coincidentally had the opportunity to get to some local 4WD tracks during that time. Now i have my roof rack repaired and back on, I can notice the considerable difference it makes to COG and was wandering how wild some of you guys have gone when it comes to tracks you drive, with a loaded or unloaded roof rack. Or are they purely meant to be used for touring vehicles avoiding the big undulated stuff.

Thoughts please.

Cheers

[Marty110]

I have always considered that minimal is best for roof racks - eg mine was a set of 4 rhino HD cross bars fitted with an alloy panel - all very light. The only stuff that goes up there is also light - no hi lift jack (thats kept down low) or fuel or water cans and no full spare wheel - only a carcass at most. Most of the time only had the side awning and a poly tube for tent poles and long handled shovel up there, so minimal effect on COG. On an extended trip I might put a space case (light) up there with my recovery gear - straps, gloves, etc - and ropes and occy straps, spare hoses and belt, again all light stuff. Cheers.

[dromader driver]

my worst case was to put a steel staircase on the ute racks to take it to the galvanisers. Was wet, rainy and I was coming off night shift.

In short keep as much weight off the roof rack as possible. The early Defa's with no sway bar are a very exciting ride and they do not steer well on 2 or 3 wheels.

If you want to work it out, take the seat height and divide by the roof rack height then multiply by about 86 kgs. this will give you an equivalent weight for each seat. Probably a max of about 100kg evenly distributed front to back including the rack mass is safe. 86 is an average adult passenger weight in some industries.

[BigBlackDog]

86 is an average adult passenger weight in some industries.
But only if your plane has more than 6 seats :D

[camel_landy]

Or are they purely meant to be used for touring vehicles avoiding the big undulated stuff.

Not even that... Roof racks are to be avoided at all costs, especially when touring.

Firstly, you've noticed the difference it makes to the CoG but the bodyshell isn't designed to take any weight. 75kg or 150kg (depending on which revision of the manual you read).

You should see the stress fractures if you run a roofrack on corrugations. ;)

M

[noyakfat]

Not even that... Roof racks are to be avoided at all costs, especially when touring.

Firstly, you've noticed the difference it makes to the CoG but the bodyshell isn't designed to take any weight. 75kg or 150kg (depending on which revision of the manual you read).

You should see the stress fractures if you run a roofrack on corrugations. ;)

M

No experience with Defender roof racks, but in all my previous 4WD touring with Land Cruisers (75 and 80 series) and Nissan (GQ Patrol) I too have avoided any roof rack.

I try to be as minimalist as possible and limit equipment to what can fit into the load space. (I appreciate this can be extremely difficult, even impossible, for some folks, especially with a family to cater for).

If you must have one, I would seriously be ruthless with limiting its use to very lightweight items only. Say, bulky lightweight stuff like a couple of swags.

Cheers

[Jeff]

I used to have a 2A wagon that had a full length roof rack and there were cracks in the firewall and around the rear side windows (Probably why the Defenders went to rounded edge windows).

I have a roof top tent and with that on two Rola bars it feels heavy enough. I see people with a full length rack with rtt and tyre/hi lift/jerries etc and think it must be interesting in corners, let alone off road.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/482.jpg (http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/Jeff_8/media/Land%20Rover/264061_142119065865584_4926680_n_zps24d74463.jpg.h tml)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/483.jpg (http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/Jeff_8/media/Land%20Rover/DSC_4036_zps23cbd901.jpg.html)

Yes, you do feel it, but just have be mindful like you do normally on side slopes.

As for not putting jerries up top, an old desert traveller told me, at least they empty and usually before the rough stuff, where tyres are the same weight all trip. Not something i have tried, but the other way is inside or lots of money on a long range tank.

Jeff

:rocket:

[n plus one]

Not even that... Roof racks are to be avoided at all costs, especially when touring.

Firstly, you've noticed the difference it makes to the CoG but the bodyshell isn't designed to take any weight. 75kg or 150kg (depending on which revision of the manual you read).

You should see the stress fractures if you run a roofrack on corrugations. ;)

M

While I certainly agree in large part, it seems there's plenty of evidence to suggest that they can handle a (lightly loaded), appropriately designed, roof rack.

Certainly don't like being loaded though, and they get rolly too!

[Chops]

I have a RTT on mine, when touring I carry either 2 or 3 Jerries, and on our upcoming trip, I'll also have a double swag and a tent aswell.

Cornering at speeds the only downside, and I find when out on the tracks, the extra weight (of the whole vehicle) makes for a nice ride :D
In the bush, the biggest problem seems to be height. Very easy to get caught up in branches etc.
Shane and Deb (Disco 3 door) might like to pipe up here,, they rode with us over at Melrose last year up one of the tracks where we lifted a leg a couple of times. Myself, I felt more than comfy, but they might have a different opinion of it being passengers, in a high loaded vehicle.

[weeds]

I used to have the mother of all roof rack fitted, rack alone was 120kg........

I now have a light weight wind cheetah

I don't stress too much....if I need to chuck stuff than i do, I don't really modify my driving whether its full or empty

[camel_landy]

I try to be as minimalist as possible and limit equipment to what can fit into the load space. (I appreciate this can be extremely difficult, even impossible, for some folks, especially with a family to cater for).

If you must have one, I would seriously be ruthless with limiting its use to very lightweight items only. Say, bulky lightweight stuff like a couple of swags.

Bingo... ;)

You can still travel with a family and keep it light. It's no easy but certainly possible (I know, I've done it).

M

[voltron]

Thanks guys,

I've just gotten back from a quick over night trip, and I have decided Im going to ditch the steel rack, and go for a lightweight alloy one or no rack at all. The amount of bumping and cracking noise I get when its on grained on me and I can't stand it now that i had the rack off for a month.

Having a steel rack certainly doesnt help and I dont carry that much weight on it, but I enjoy the car much more with it off.

Cheers

[Iain_B]

Having completed some bit trips with a heavily loaded roof rack both with and without the SD roll cage, you have to change your driving style to accommodate the weight without a doubt.

Our first big trip to Cape York we had a OEM full lenght roof rack with a plywood insert, and a RTT and some light boxes up top. We came down the OTT, and some other interesting tracks. The corrugations were the thing that affected us the most, the front doors were eventually banging on the A-pillar. The whole roof had moved and needed to be taken off and reset, luckily done under warranty.


We fitted the SD Rollcage ( Ladder Rack) and that added 120kg to the truck, I built my own roof rack which was a bit lighter than the OEM one. The next trip we had the same set-up as before but with another 20kg of outboard motor and fuel, but driving it was so much better. The corrugations did not cause any problems, and we drove over much worse ones and for much longer. We did not tackle any serious off road tracks though. We were on completely standard suspension and had to take it easy as we did hit the bump stops quite regularly. I estimate that we had about 150kg on the roof (including roof rack). We kept the heavy stuff inside as low as possible. We also have rock sliders, Long Range fuel tank, underbody armour etc, so in terms of CoG, we might not be that much higher than standard, but with much a higher moment of inertia around the CoG we have to take everything slow.

Our last trip was for three months, and we were very heavily loaded. In saying that, we also added a lot more weight down low as well, a winch up front and , 100lt water tank in the footwell. We had airbags in the rear and uprate springs and Koni 90 series shocks. That made a bit difference to the ride. Side slopes were our biggest concern, but this time we did quite a few "difficult" tracks up at Lorella Springs, some interesting washed out side tracks on the Gibb River Road and drove all over Steep Point in WA. I had to be really careful about wheel placement and doing things really slowly to allow for the extra weight up top - none of the "second gear low and go,go,go nonsense. First gear low, low tyre pressure and just idle up and over things. We had around 170kg up top for most of the way

Across the Anne Beadell track we added another 80kg of fuel up top. This made quite a difference, having now 250kg. It definitely rolled around more. Every time we took a break I filled up the tank from the jerry cans. There are no really "tough tracks" on the Anne Beadell, we did a few side tracks that had some big washouts on them but were really careful, as you need to be, 600km from the nearest town. This is us on the way to the light plane wreck through the dunes.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/378.jpg

At Arkaroola, we did their "extreme 4x4" track including a pretty rough side track off to Bararranna Gorge whilst fully loaded without any problems, again just first gear low, careful wheel placement and very slow.

In short, I have no problem having a lot of weight up top, but you have to adjust your driving style to suit.

[voltron]

Sounds like you have experienced the full potential of the Defender and learned how to manage it to the extreme Ian. I doubt I will ever be touring like that for 10 years yet, but one can only dream.

When I first purchased the 110, I loved the roof cage and the versatility it allowed with loading. Now that I have had it off, I've had the chance to experience another side of the Defender without the cage and I felt it's a totally different car. Im not sure what I'll do to compensate for not having it but, it's not the end of the world I guess.

Cheers

[cewilson]

I've run an alloy roof-rack for years, and its been fantastic. Don't even bother taking it off at home as its surprising how often I use it.

Off-road it generally has my second spare, kids swags, camp chairs and the table. All light, but bulky items.

Personally fuel belongs low in the vehicle, and being diesel there isn't any safety issue.

Important part - the mounting system. Mine is full length and runs a full length flat bar on the left and right sides, plus 4 mounting points each side. Even then I still check it over regularly on extended trips.

Cheers
Chris

[dlatn]

If you cant carry your load inside the vehicle you are carrying too much crap and shouldnt be going on remote roads.
I recommend going on a tour bus with backpackers

[Chops]

If you cant carry your load inside the vehicle you are carrying too much crap and shouldnt be going on remote roads.
I recommend going on a tour bus with backpackers

If I thought like that, I'd have stayed in a Ford sedan.
The reality is, if you cant adjust your driving style to suit your vehicle/terrain/conditions, then you probably should'nt be driving a car to start with, let alone a 4x4.

[Iain_B]

:D:D LOL. you must be either not married or don't want to be for long. :D:D

We don't fancy dragging around a track destroying, self destructing, boat anchor (called a camper trailer) around, so carrying a house on the roof was our only option until we get our Unimog finished. :p

We packed just enough stuff for each section of the trip. Our three luxury items was a Nespresso machine, that weighed a massive 5kg with all the coffee and the box and two latex pillows, which are also around 5kg each.

The only things we didn't use were the spare parts, which is a good thing and our outboard motor, because it was two windy or too many crocodiles for a deflatable boat. :)


If you cant carry your load inside the vehicle you are carrying too much crap and shouldnt be going on remote roads.
I recommend going on a tour bus with backpackers

[n plus one]

TBH I find the biggest challenge with packing the truck is around activities.

If I wanted to just drive around, look at things and sit on my bum at a camp site it would be easy, but I don't, when I get places I want to go for MTB rides, extended bush walks, climbs, dirt bike rides, etc.

It's juggling these that has resulted in me carrying stuff on the roof rack - probably should just get a mog!

[Iain_B]

So true, al oto f our stuff on the last trip was to be able to do things. We carry a 5.5m inflatable boat, 2.3hp outboard, life jackets, oars and paddles, safety flares etc, we also had snorkels and flippers . We have a small tent for when we go up river or off to islands and two lightweight sleeping bags as well. Our still and video camera gear is two large cases, tripod, monopod, reflector, flashes, two lap tops, chargers, back-up discs We both have hiking boots, and day packs and various hats. We carry a lounger, so my wife can get some rest from all the act ivies :)

When traveling for extended period, the weather varies from +40 degrees and sunny, to 5 degrees and raining. To cope with these extremes, you need different clothes and extra blankets. Total fire bans seem to be more common these days in National Parks.

We also have a pretty substantial first aid/medical kit for the car, and a smaller one for our day packs. We carry a small chemist shop around due to my wife's condition, and everything from cold and flu medicine, antibiotics to very strong pain killers.

Tools wise, full socket set and ring spanners, screw drivers, vice grips, pliers, crimping tool, we had an R&R Beadbreaker, and 3 tyre levers, but now have Tyrepliers which actually works a lot better. Axe, a small bow saw, hammer/pick, mini grease gun, fuel filter funnel (works great for taking out water and junk from dodgy servos)

Spares wise, fan belts, all the weird hose a Defender requires, set of wheel bearings, uni joints, shock rubbers, two fuel filters, two air filters, two oil filters and 10 litres of the fancy Land Rover oil, radiator stop leak, fuel tank repair putty , brake fluid, diff oil, rescue tape, fuses, small selection of nuts and bolts, self tapping, screws, relays, wire terminals, bulbs.

There is a huge difference between going away for the weekend and going away for a few months to very remote places especially if you will not stay in a caravan park.

I know people who love going out bush for a week or two with just a tarp and a few swags, but doing that for months on end, and having to cope with in all sorts of weather is a different story.

Our Unimog, whilst only a small one, will have a lot more gear (probably some folding mountain bikes and electric scooters and maybe even some scuba gear), as well plan to live in it for a few years. We have found it is the little luxury items, like the lounger, the Nespresso machine and our inflatable boat that makes things just that more enjoyable.




TBH I find the biggest challenge with packing the truck is around activities.

If I wanted to just drive around, look at things and sit on my bum at a camp site it would be easy, but I don't, when I get places I want to go for MTB rides, extended bush walks, climbs, dirt bike rides, etc.

It's juggling these that has resulted in me carrying stuff on the roof rack - probably should just get a mog!

[camel_landy]

There is a huge difference between going away for the weekend and going away for a few months to very remote places especially if you will not stay in a caravan park.

Absolutely but by the same token, it's no excuse for taking too much stuff and overloading the car beyond the GVW.

M

[n plus one]

So true, al oto f our stuff on the last trip was to be able to do things. We carry a 5.5m inflatable boat, 2.3hp outboard, life jackets, oars and paddles, safety flares etc, we also had snorkels and flippers . We have a small tent for when we go up river or off to islands and two lightweight sleeping bags as well. Our still and video camera gear is two large cases, tripod, monopod, reflector, flashes, two lap tops, chargers, back-up discs We both have hiking boots, and day packs and various hats. We carry a lounger, so my wife can get some rest from all the act ivies :)

When traveling for extended period, the weather varies from +40 degrees and sunny, to 5 degrees and raining. To cope with these extremes, you need different clothes and extra blankets. Total fire bans seem to be more common these days in National Parks.

We also have a pretty substantial first aid/medical kit for the car, and a smaller one for our day packs. We carry a small chemist shop around due to my wife's condition, and everything from cold and flu medicine, antibiotics to very strong pain killers.

Tools wise, full socket set and ring spanners, screw drivers, vice grips, pliers, crimping tool, we had an R&R Beadbreaker, and 3 tyre levers, but now have Tyrepliers which actually works a lot better. Axe, a small bow saw, hammer/pick, mini grease gun, fuel filter funnel (works great for taking out water and junk from dodgy servos)

Spares wise, fan belts, all the weird hose a Defender requires, set of wheel bearings, uni joints, shock rubbers, two fuel filters, two air filters, two oil filters and 10 litres of the fancy Land Rover oil, radiator stop leak, fuel tank repair putty , brake fluid, diff oil, rescue tape, fuses, small selection of nuts and bolts, self tapping, screws, relays, wire terminals, bulbs.

There is a huge difference between going away for the weekend and going away for a few months to very remote places especially if you will not stay in a caravan park.

I know people who love going out bush for a week or two with just a tarp and a few swags, but doing that for months on end, and having to cope with in all sorts of weather is a different story.

Our Unimog, whilst only a small one, will have a lot more gear (probably some folding mountain bikes and electric scooters and maybe even some scuba gear), as well plan to live in it for a few years. We have found it is the little luxury items, like the lounger, the Nespresso machine and our inflatable boat that makes things just that more enjoyable.

Yep, it's a challenge - I'm currently looking to reconfigure so I can carry my mtbs inside the truck - which is proving challenging!

CL I agree completely - I've probably weighed my truck and its contents as much as any out there!

On a positive note, at least we're all here discussing this issue rather than blindly bolting more and more crap onto trucks that have a limited load capacity (Patrols,etc) and not even giving GVM/COG a second thought! :eek:

FWIW to the OP, I'm trying to get my roof load down to 75kg max for handling and structural reasons.