Door Repair

[KeithMac]

Ok, I'll admit it! I Don' know if its just me but I am rubbish at searches on this forum! I am sure the answer is on here, but I cannot find it!

Anyway, my next big job on my 110 (Hector) is to repair the doors. Each time I close them there is the gentle tinkling sound of rust falling down - they all are in pretty bad shape with most of the bottom rusted out, and blisters in the paint at waist level. I and going to need to get the steel work out and cut out the rust and weld in new. The rear drivers side door also has no door card, winder mechanism or really anything - so I need a lot for that!

So, here's the question. Where is the best place to get the "door bottom repair section"?

Also, any one out there that has done this and want to share their valuable knowledge/ i would love to hear from you.

Thanks in advance!

[steveG]

Watching with interest as I've got to do the same thing.

Steve

[isuzu110]

I have previously bought repair strips of SIII door frame from FWD motors in Melbourne to do this job, but have never completed it. Not sure it it is 100% the same profile of more recent door frames.

[KeithMac]

I have previously bought repair strips of SIII door frame from FWD motors in Melbourne to do this job, but have never completed it. Not sure it it is 100% the same profile of more recent door frames.

I have been given the name of this company, but can't locate it. Any more info out there?

[isuzu110]

Four Wheel Drives Pty Ltd, Largest Range of 4x4 Parts and Accessories in Australia. (http://www.landrovers.com.au/)

[KeithMac]

Four Wheel Drives Pty Ltd, Largest Range of 4x4 Parts and Accessories in Australia. (http://www.landrovers.com.au/)
Went on this web site, but they only seem to have filter kits, service kits and insect repellant!

[gromit]

Went on this web site, but they only seem to have filter kits, service kits and insect repellant!

Phone them and speak to Jim or email sales@landrovers.com.au
They have repair sections for Series doors, not sure how different the 110 profile is and whether they keep it in stock.


Colin

[KeithMac]

Phone them and speak to Jim or email sales@landrovers.com.au
They have repair sections for Series doors, not sure how different the 110 profile is and whether they keep it in stock.


Colin

Thanks Colin, I'll send him an email.

Keith

[steveG]

How did you go Keith?
Were you able to get hold of the repair sections from somewhere?

Steve

[Svengali0]

I have had to do this about a dozen times- front defender type and rears, county 110 and series. Haven't noticed much difference between them all- just some detail changes but not so much in dimension of the box section. It's fiddly and annoying work- esp around the door hinge tube sections (hidden within the box at each hinge) these are simple crush tubes 12mm or in diameter I recall- they are brazed in. They get rusty and must be replaced as the hinges can't be tension on the door without them. An additional area that can't be ignored is the rear upper section on the rear doors just south of the quarter window. Defenders love to rust here.

I have seen the repair sections available on eBay and other places but refuse to come at the cost of something I can make myself. Given that steel is fairly cheap, I have made up a jig to bend the light gauge .75mm steel after cutting to length and width. I use a male and female setup so just crush the steel to shape and then spot weld to flat sections- similar to factory except they used a press. Zinc aneal is preferable and make damn sure you put some sort of product like tectyl on the inside of the welds after getting some etch prime in their prior. Tectyl comes in spray cans and you can put one of those red tube thingies into the nozzle to put it in hard to get spaces. I have tried pouring the stuff in to the box section using a hand pump, turning the door on it's end and over again but this is very wasteful of product and it goes everywhere- a wretched experience believe me.

The hard part is folding the ally skin back and keeping it from the heat of any of the welds. Be prepared to refinish the door entire. Use adhesive sealant (sikaflex) to stick the skin to the back of the repaired sections. Two person job to stretch or tension the skin back into place.

HTH cheers

[KeithMac]

I have had to do this about a dozen times- front defender type and rears, county 110 and series. Haven't noticed much difference between them all- just some detail changes but not so much in dimension of the box section. It's fiddly and annoying work- esp around the door hinge tube sections (hidden within the box at each hinge) these are simple crush tubes 12mm or in diameter I recall- they are brazed in. They get rusty and must be replaced as the hinges can't be tension on the door without them. An additional area that can't be ignored is the rear upper section on the rear doors just south of the quarter window. Defenders love to rust here.

I have seen the repair sections available on eBay and other places but refuse to come at the cost of something I can make myself. Given that steel is fairly cheap, I have made up a jig to bend the light gauge .75mm steel after cutting to length and width. I use a male and female setup so just crush the steel to shape and then spot weld to flat sections- similar to factory except they used a press. Zinc aneal is preferable and make damn sure you put some sort of product like tectyl on the inside of the welds after getting some etch prime in their prior. Tectyl comes in spray cans and you can put one of those red tube thingies into the nozzle to put it in hard to get spaces. I have tried pouring the stuff in to the box section using a hand pump, turning the door on it's end and over again but this is very wasteful of product and it goes everywhere- a wretched experience believe me.

The hard part is folding the ally skin back and keeping it from the heat of any of the welds. Be prepared to refinish the door entire. Use adhesive sealant (sikaflex) to stick the skin to the back of the repaired sections. Two person job to stretch or tension the skin back into place.

HTH cheers

Thanks for this.

I ended up getting the sections cheaper from the UK (cant remember how much and from where as I am in the UK atm)

This is a job I will be tackling when I return home, I am going to do it very slowly and making sure I use Tectyl or the such like around a lot. I don't want to do it again for a long while!

I'll keep you informed about how I go.

[steveG]

<snip>

The hard part is folding the ally skin back and keeping it from the heat of any of the welds. Be prepared to refinish the door entire. Use adhesive sealant (sikaflex) to stick the skin to the back of the repaired sections. Two person job to stretch or tension the skin back into place.

HTH cheers

Any more details on how you tension it back in place. While I get the purpose, I'm struggling to get my head around how it would be done.
Maybe its obvious once I actually start :angel:

Steve

[Didge]

Guide to Defender Door Repair (Internal Frame) | Repair My Landrover (http://www.repairmylandrover.co.uk/defender-repairguides/guide-to-defender-door-repair-internal-frame)

[Judo]

Guide to Defender Door Repair (Internal Frame) | Repair My Landrover (http://www.repairmylandrover.co.uk/defender-repairguides/guide-to-defender-door-repair-internal-frame)
Brilliant.

What sources have you guys found? I found one ebay item in Australia, but not much else.

Land Rover Door Frame Side Repair Section | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LAND-ROVER-DOOR-FRAME-SIDE-REPAIR-SECTION-/200995336559?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ecc41716f&_uhb=1)

Edit: bottom section: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/200995336714'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[Svengali0]

Any more details on how you tension it back in place. While I get the purpose, I'm struggling to get my head around how it would be done.
Maybe its obvious once I actually start :angel:

Steve[/QUOTE]

That link provides useful advice & images but he doesn't explain or show how warped his door skins are likely to be after performing those specific repairs.

Tensioning the alloy skin back into place is difficult and it seems that no matter how careful you are, warping of the outer skin is not avoidable- I personally hate seeing a depression in the outer skin after doing the repair- folding the overlap back into place along the edges.

But- first, I pull the doors from the vehicle. Then use several g clamps and long flat lengths of hardwood (along the outside length of the door) to maintain straightness. THen fold the alloy overlap back from inside edges- I use locking pliers and lengths of flat 5mm steel so that the stretching is kept to a mimimun- then fold back (not flat, just at sufficient angle to permit access). Don't overwork the aluminium- avoid mucking about with it - clean with a wire-brush on five inch angle grinder.

When the box sections are repaired- making sure the door is straight (ie, your g clamps are doing the job) pull the alloy back with the locking pliers and steel plate (this is where another set of hands is needed) and gently fold over the frame. I use three sets of two locking pliers- three lengths of steel plate measuring ideally 5mm (thickness) x 100mm (L) x 40mm (W). Longer is better but I normally work this alone so three sets is easier to manage. Allow the skiaflex (that you put between the skin and repair section- not too much!) to cure generally overnight).

Then move the g clamps down to underneath the fold- re-tension (on a front door, I use four clamps). Apply more sikaflex (light bead) and get another piece of steel to apply additional clamps on the (now sealed and curing) fold. Leave overnight or longer to permit full cure. Remove clamps and timber and hopefully- the outer skin is as good as when you started.

Getting the skin straight is diabolical at times. If there is something that you can glean from the above description (that may not be very clear) then it is the use of a series of clamps and locking pliers (vicegrips) and lengths of timber and steel to help not only with alignment but also with tensioning the alloy skin back into place.. There is nothing worse than a door that is rust free but incorrectly aligned or is skewed. The bloke doing that repair in the link below is at risk of this if he doesn't clamp the door entire before welding his new sections in....I also noted that he didn't show any before and after shots of the outer skin of the front door he repaired. I'd be willing to guess there are more waves than the Royal Barge after this repair.

HTH cheers

[KeithMac]

Thanks for that detailed explanation. Still overseas, when I get home I will be planning on getting on with the job.

I have a fairly good idea about what to do about the rusty lower frame but have no idea about what I will find or how to tackle the rust higher up. On all my doors I have pitting on the outside (I think indicating rust problems on the frame up there).

Any ideas?

Keith

[Svengali0]

Thanks for that detailed explanation. Still overseas, when I get home I will be planning on getting on with the job.

I have a fairly good idea about what to do about the rusty lower frame but have no idea about what I will find or how to tackle the rust higher up. On all my doors I have pitting on the outside (I think indicating rust problems on the frame up there).

Any ideas?

Keith

technically, the skin should be removed entirely to get at those pesky problem areas above the lower frame assembly. The corrosion you can see (on the outside) is terminal -but can be held in check for years with good preparation and product. Perhaps be ready to lower standards in terms of what the finished product is going to look like? Defender/series/county/puma did come out with shocking panel gaps, odd warping in mid panel (especially the quarter panels) and lots of rivets as we all know and love.
Just as long as the rust in the metal frame is checked and repaired, don't be too fussy about the outside. Having said that though, I do experience a tinge of jealousy when a near new puma parks along side and it's doors are immaculate...

[KeithMac]

technically, the skin should be removed entirely to get at those pesky problem areas above the lower frame assembly. The corrosion you can see (on the outside) is terminal -but can be held in check for years with good preparation and product. Perhaps be ready to lower standards in terms of what the finished product is going to look like? Defender/series/county/puma did come out with shocking panel gaps, odd warping in mid panel (especially the quarter panels) and lots of rivets as we all know and love.
Just as long as the rust in the metal frame is checked and repaired, don't be too fussy about the outside. Having said that though, I do experience a tinge of jealousy when a near new puma parks along side and it's doors are immaculate...

Ok, here is what I need to know. ANYONE! What's involved in getting to the rust in those "pesky problem areas" higher up. I think I am on top of what I have to do lower down, but have found NOTHING about higher up.

So, if you have done this or know where I can find out PLEASE let me know.

Keith

PS I am writing this from Dubai airport, so I'm getting closer to home and closer to starting this project (might give myself some time off first though!)

[Didge]

There is a thread on here somewhere about using a solution of 1 part molasses to 20 parts water as an electrolyte. You can drop your rusty item in it and leave it for a month and all the rust dissolves. Alternatively, you can hook it up to a battery charger with another piece of steel in the solution and the rust dissolves in a day or two. You need to be careful about which terminal the door or item is attached to but there is plenty of info on this to be found by doing a simple search either here or on the net generally. eg battery charger method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C83xMYAnCOI -
and molasses method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq5IUiYMhRM - good Aussie video
I'd be interested in how you go; it's on my hit list as well.
cheers gerald

[steveG]

Unless it was a structural issue or you really wanted to deskin the whole door, I think I'd be leaning towards just hitting it with fish oil or similar to halt its progress.

I'm guessing you'd have to deskin it to put into molasses?

Steve

[Didge]

I reckon you would and it's a balls and all approach that's gonna have your car off the road for a while. I need to do all my doors but I'm thinking of trying to do a reasonable resto on it. But the rust in the passenger footwell is more of a bugger to fix and even though Paddocks sell the panels it's still a lot of work to replace.

[KeithMac]

There is a thread on here somewhere about using a solution of 1 part molasses to 20 parts water as an electrolyte. You can drop your rusty item in it and leave it for a month and all the rust dissolves. Alternatively, you can hook it up to a battery charger with another piece of steel in the solution and the rust dissolves in a day or two. You need to be careful about which terminal the door or item is attached to but there is plenty of info on this to be found by doing a simple search either here or on the net generally. eg battery charger method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C83xMYAnCOI -
and molasses method
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq5IUiYMhRM - good Aussie video
I'd be interested in how you go; it's on my hit list as well.
cheers gerald

My brother is going to be helping me and he restores WWII military vehicles and uses the electrical current approach to rust removal. So, I guess we could do it, but dipping the whole door? We will sure need a huge tub!

But there must be someone who has done this and can help me out.... someone???

[KeithMac]

I reckon you would and it's a balls and all approach that's gonna have your car off the road for a while. I need to do all my doors but I'm thinking of trying to do a reasonable resto on it. But the rust in the passenger footwell is more of a bugger to fix and even though Paddocks sell the panels it's still a lot of work to replace.

Done the foot wells already. Made up the panels myself and it was not too hard (not pretty, but not too hard). The steel on the bulkhead is EVRY thin.

I made sure everything was treated with rust killer THEN a lot of paint. It worked and after all it is covered up with mats now ;)