Landcruiser warranty issues/ thoughts, views, etc.

[jplambs]

About ten months ago my father's work ute, a 79 series landcruiser, got bogged in water up to the running boards for about 30minutes before he could get it towed out. Next service the Toyota mechanics noticed discolouration of the grease in the bearings from water ingress so they replaced the bearing and differential oil under warranty.

About a two weeks ago dad started to notice braking issues, they'd work then wouldn't, pulsing etc. Immediately booked the vehicle in for a check. Toyota mechs couldn't find the problem but did machine rear discs and fit new pads and fit a new master cylinder under warranty, my brother was driving it home and rang me to say that the problems were still there. Got home and felt all the wheel bearings, the front left was too hot to touch.

Ute was flatbedded back to dealership where they believe they have discovered water contamination in cv joints / rust on surface that has caused the catastrophic failure of materials.

They now want to replace components with parts from a wrecker and pay for some of the costs themselves with us wearing the rest, they don't want to put it through under warranty. The mechanic now believes that the original brake issues were die to the front disc rubbing on the callipers as a result of the damage. They've polished up the housing and want to use them again.

My thoughts at this stage are; why in tarnation didn't they pick up the supposed wear on the front callipers if they went to the lengths of machining the reare discs. Putting 2nd hand parts on a still under warranty vehicle???? And why didn't they think to do the cv grease when they did the bearings and differential oil over 30,000 kms ago and/or why wasn't this picked up at the three services since? Particularly the one that occurred three weeks ago?

I'd love some input as to whether I'm being fair, did I miss anything, etc.

[jplambs]

More pics

[goingbush]

I'd have thought if it was bogged in water up to the sills for 30 minutes that the warranty should be declined . Its supposed to cover manufacturers defects not wear and tear caused by driver error!

[Kev the Fridgy]

I'd have thought if it was bogged in water up to the sills for 30 minutes that the warranty should be declined . Its supposed to cover manufacturers defects not wear and tear caused by driver error!



Well it is a 4WD, designed to be driven off road. Either bogged or moving the same result most likely would have happened, IMO sounds like not enough looking the first time.

[Celtoid]

I'd have thought if it was bogged in water up to the sills for 30 minutes that the warranty should be declined . Its supposed to cover manufacturers defects not wear and tear caused by driver error!

Window sills maybe .... LOL!!!

It's a 4WD, surely it should be able to sit in a bit of water for a while, without everything getting flooded and ruined? If not, then I guess the operator should have asked for a "Special Servicing" after the event I suppose.

The question probably should have been asked of Toyota regarding the need for a service.

If the service or repairs were very expensive, I'd be contacting my Insurance Company, so that they could fight it out with Toyota.

[goingbush]

Toyota warranty does not cover mud / water damage, end of story.

[Reads90]

Toyota warranty does not cover mud / water damage, end of story.

Totally agree would expect the same from Land Rover dealerships.

Wheel bearings water and mud don't mix, does not matter what the make of the car is.

[scarry]

But if the water was within the wading depth of the vehicle,as specified by the manufacturer,well the owner may have some come back.

But using a vehicle in these conditions it needs to be serviced more often,as per manufacturers specs.

[benji]

I would have thought that if the water was under the stated wading depth then it would be covered. But obviously they've put a clause in the small writing.

It's still incompetent of the tojo mechanics to have not picked it up though.

If the water/mud damage clause is in there, I think the dealer is willing to part pay as a sorry for not picking it up - which is good of them.



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[Reads90]

I would have thought that if the water was under the stated wading depth then it would be covered. But obviously they've put a clause in the small writing.

It's still incompetent of the tojo mechanics to have not picked it up though.

If the water/mud damage clause is in there, I think the dealer is willing to part pay as a sorry for not picking it up - which is good of them.



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There is a difference between wading and staying still for 30 mins in the same place.

Wading refers to a moving vehicle in water and not put a car in water and leave it there and it will be ok.

I have done a lot of off roading in wet conditions and hate getting stuck in water for this very reason. Wading through water is ok can cause some problems but no where near as many as sitting in water for half an hour letting water seep into nooks and cranies of the car and more importantly the axel.

[Bushy049]

Was a cruiser man for many years, water getting into the wheel bearing seals and into the diff housing is a cruiser thing. It gets worse as they age due to wear, were the seals sit on surfaces. I feel under the circumstances Toyota are being very reasonable. That said not picking up on the front disks and pads is not very acceptable, use that to your benefit. The spongy break pedal feel would have been from the sideways movement of the front wheel pushing the pads apart on the side with the stuffed bearing

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[jplambs]

Some further details, apparently the wheel bearings where repacked three weeks ago at the service, going from the images and details it would appear that they are what have failed, apparently the grease is from the right hand cv joint - it hasn't failed. I'm beginning to think that somebody forgot to fold up the locking tabs on the packing nut, it would explain both the pulsing in the brakes and the bearing failure. It would appear that the mention of water in cv grease has been used to avoid culpability. Apparently the Toyota mechanic said, "we don't want to put it through on warranty because Toyota might audit us".

[BigJon]

, apparently the wheel bearings where repacked three weeks ago at the service,


I'm beginning to think that somebody forgot to fold up the locking tabs on the packing nut, it would explain both the pulsing in the brakes and the bearing failure.


Apparently the Toyota mechanic said, "we don't want to put it through on warranty because Toyota might audit us".

If that is the case the warranty repair would fall directly on the shoulders of the workshop that did the wheel bearing job, not Toyota (the vehicle warranty provider).

[Celtoid]

There is a difference between wading and staying still for 30 mins in the same place.

Wading refers to a moving vehicle in water and not put a car in water and leave it there and it will be ok.

I have done a lot of off roading in wet conditions and hate getting stuck in water for this very reason. Wading through water is ok can cause some problems but no where near as many as sitting in water for half an hour letting water seep into nooks and cranies of the car and more importantly the axel.

Isn't one of the D4's integrity tests, sitting in wading depth water for a year to ensure it doesn't leak ... LOL???!!! "there you go sir, you're 4WD's cabin is water tight ... but now you can't drive anywhere, cause your wheel bearings have seized" ..... ;-)

[simmo]

Bad luck, but checking for water damage probably is not part of the normal service. It's a surprise the damage is so bad normally after long drive the heat will evaporate most the water out of the bearings. I used to have problems because my car would not be driven for a few weeks sometimes after water crossings etc. It was like a police siren the bearings. I got tired of it and converted to oil filled hubs and never looked back.

But its still a good idea to check the diff oil etc as an indicator, by opening the diff drain plug and letting 100 ml run out the bottom into a clean container. Then screw the plug back in no need to drain all the oil if its' clean and not cloudy.

Was a cruiser man for many years, water getting into the wheel bearing seals and into the diff housing is a cruiser thing. as bushy says

Maybe it's not all a bed of roses in Toyota land after all, plus owner product knowledge is always an advantage. cheers simmo

[PAT303]

Dunno,I would have thought the mightiest 4wd ever made would handle a bit of water,sounds to me like the workshop cut a few corners personally. Pat

[tact]

I bought a brand new dual cab hilux from a Toyota dealer in Kuala Lumpur about 10yrs ago.

In the first 3mths, running it in and testing it out on some lightweight paddock off road... The rear leaf spring packs went a bit skewed.

Took it in expecting no argument for warranty. Wrong.

"Did you take it off road?"
Of course, but easy stuff.
"Oh then not covered under warranty"
You are kidding me!?

Long story short - they were eventually shamed into conceding. I ended up telling them no point putting the same crap spring packs in, winning the admission and concession was enough.

Went off and had aftermarket suspension fitted front and rear - to hell with warranty.

[Celtoid]

- to hell with warranty.[/QUOTE]

Unless its a $9K gearbox or ~ $20K engine .... as they are in some LR brands :-(

[PAT303]

Even with warranty you'll have no chance of getting a new motor from Toyota,only a rebuild. Pat

[Celtoid]

Even with warranty you'll have no chance of getting a new motor from Toyota,only a rebuild. Pat

Better than SFA if you have no warranty ;-)

[PAT303]

With Toyota the warranty is worth SFA even when you do have it. Pat

[Celtoid]

With Toyota the warranty is worth SFA even when you do have it. Pat


Oh, that good ..... fortunately I'm not in the market for a Toyota then ;-)

Cheers,

Kev.

[jplambs]

Thanks all for your comments, we ended up achieving a pretty good outcome, Toyota covered the cost of all repairs asides from the cost of the two failed bearings. (We can live with that). In a phone conversation with them regarding using secondhand parts Dad got them to admit negligence for having returned the vehicle to my brother in an unsafe condition despite the vehicle having been brought to them for that specific fault. It also turned out that they hadn't repacked the bearings despite it being noted in the book for them to do, out of schedule, at the last service. "We were running late and trying to get the vehicle ready for the 4 o'clock pick up so we missed it".. :-O

They still maintain that the fault was caused by water in the grease which I'm now inclined to believe if they hadn't checked them for 40,000 Kms. The other thing we pointed out was the excessive surface rust on the swivel housing at full lock that had been there for a long time and when asked why they hadn't picked that up as possibly being a problem on a young vehicle they again acknowledged that they should have picked it up.

Upside is the vehicle is now recorded in their system as being one that is used in "extreme" situations so will be given a much more thorough going over and the other interesting thing is that it was Toyota not the workshop that paid for the warranty claim. ;-/ go figure.

[drivesafe]

Hi JP and that’s a pretty good outcome.

Shame Land Rover doesn’t look after it’s customers the same way.

I buy new vehicles because I am not a mechanic and like the warranty to cover any work that may be needed, but I paid $170,000 for a brand new RR only to find out that it was the first new vehicle I had ever bought that did not come with a warranty.

It supposed to have a 3 year warranty, but by it’s first service, just three months old and never even been off road, it was made very clear to me that the Land Rover warranty was not worth the paper it was printed on.

And I’m not the only land Rover owner with this sort of problem.

Land Rover also keeps a list of vehicles being used in “extreme” situations, but in Land Rover’s case, the list is used to knock back warranty claims.

So again, good to see Toyota look after their customers when they do use the vehicle the way it is designed to be.