td5 rear wheel bearing spacers and lock nuts

[towe0609]

I know, I know, how many bloody threads on this topic, surely the idiot could search etc etc. Trust me, I have read widely.

I use MTE4x4 who advises me that they 'retrofit' wheel bearing spacers to all pre 99 defenders, but use the double lock nut/lock washer set-up. I don't want to get into debating whether this is better or not, I'm happy to trust him.

I'm in the process of fitting new disks to the rear of a td5 130. Other than that, all I'm doing is re-greasing the bearings and fitting a new RTC3511 seal.

So I'd like to retain the spacer, but want to ditch the stake nut, and go to the double lock nut/lock washer set-up.

What torque setting should I use for the inner and outer lock nuts in this scenario? There is some suggestion on the web that you don't need 210Nm like you do with the stake nut.

In terms of tools I have available, I have a deep 52mm impact socket and 1/2" drive torque wrench that goes up to 190Nm.

Is there anything else I need to consider?

[Judo]

From my Disco workshop manual, which I believe has the same hubs.

11. Clean stub axle and drive shaft and fit hub assembly to axle.
12. Fit spacing washer.
13. Fit hub adjusting nut. Tighten to 61 Nm.
14. Back off adjusting nut 90°. Tighten to 4 Nm.
This will give the required hub end float of
0,010mm
15. Fit a new lock washer.
16. Fit locknut. Tighten to 61 Nm.
17. Tab over lock washer to secure adjusting nut
and locknut.



Some interesting reading on the topic here:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/184387-why-do-wheel-bearings-come-loose-post2019213.html

[eddy]

If you are talking about retaining the spacer that goes between the bearings on the TD5 setup,this is discarded when you change to the 2 lock nut method of retaining the bearings.Then follow the procedure as in the previous post ie pre TD5.I take you are using Land Rover Defender TD5 Wheel Bearing Conversion KIT | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221008816398'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649) Good opportunity to change to oil filled hubs.

[towe0609]

I know it is unconventional, but yes, I want to retain the spacer, but ditch the stake nut in favour of the double lock nut and lock washer. Hence the pre-td5 method, and associated torque settings, don't really apply.

I've contacted Ian at MTE4x4 today, and he's recommended 160Nm for both the lock nuts.

Just waiting for some parts to arrive, and I'll give it a go.

[mools]

I know it is unconventional, but yes, I want to retain the spacer, but ditch the stake nut in favour of the double lock nut and lock washer.

Just curious as to why, why retain the spacer?

Ian.

[towe0609]

I'm keen to do it purely on the back of a recommendation. Ian at MTE4x4 did provide a rationale, but to be honest, I didn't take it in at the time.

[Judo]

I've never seen a stake nut setup. Does that mean the bearings are housed and secured in the hub and the stake nut secures the hub and does not put any pressure on the bearings?

[simmo]

Towe, don't worry about asking for advice, but there are soem good threads listed by others. I don't know much about the Td-5 with the spacer and being done up to 190 nm etc, sounds complicated for something that's simple.
At the risk of controversy IMHO "End float" is a "crock of". You might note that tapered roller bearing used almost everywhere , gearboxes, transfer case etc, all have "preload", end float = hub "play" or slop

I had no end of problems with my bearings trying to establish "endfloat", ans was always fiddling with the hubs because they would become loos after a while the end float seemed to increase etc. I discussed the landrover recommendation it with mate of mine who was truck mechanic for a north west trucking company that were delivering all over the north of aust on dirt roads to mine sites etc. They were very tough on the wheel hubs. He was building axles and diffs for a couple of years.

He told me two things, it's best if you can, convert your hubs to oil, and always have preload on your bearing, never end float. I followed his advice and never looked back.
My advice is very similar to Judo. This is how I do mine; tighten them up tight and roll the wheel to make sure the races are are bedded in back off the nut til it's lose then tighten up until the spanner just starts to feel firm, wind the second nut up to touch the lock washer then , tighten up the lock nut to about 20 n/m, lock the first nut with the tab bend inwards lock the second nut with the washer bend outwards. I never used a torque wrench but you'l develop a feel for it), Check for free rotation, loose to turn but no play you can feel. When you finish the wheel should have zero rocking motion when you gab it at the top and bottom and try to rock it. Next time you drive the car stop after few minutes , then thirty minutes, and maybe an hour later and feel the hubs. If you can hold your hand on the drive flange and part of the hub sticking out of the wheel the bearing preload is OK, if you can't hold your hand on continuously it's a bit too hot. That might be problem if you have alloy wheel with center hubs covered where you can't feel the hubs. I'm convinced most of the axle & drive flange fretting, seal and bearing problems with land rovers are related to "float" and the difficulty to achieve it. If you have too much end float the wheel hub can "lean" on the seal making it over heat and go hard or not seal properly. I haven't changed a seal or wheel bearing for over 70,000 kms, been through plenty of water etc. Occasionally i jack up each wheel and try to "rock it". If i can sense movement at the hub , the bearings have too much play and I adjust them up. I'm in the habit on long trips of coasting to a stop in the garages or roadside stops with small brake use and feeling the hubs. If you notice they are too hot to hold your hand on you need to think about some service soon. If they burn you hand or you can smell overheated oil or grease you need service now. The good thing about going back to the old way is you can carry your spares etc and change the bearings and service them on the road side with only the tube spanner, hammer, screwdriver and a punch etc, very basic tools. (beencarrying my spares but never used them:)
Have chat at one of the landrover days or next time on a trip. Plenty of guys do their own system with very good long term results.

Knowing your hubs is important, if they're OK you can be towed no matter what, if they're buggered, you need the tilt truck, dammed embarrassing and expensive. have fun simmo.