D3 Diesel Front Timing Cover Explosion

[BusinessConnected]

So the Wife's D3 Diesel has suffered a lovely Timing Belt Front Cover Explosion... I'm actually holding a Timing Belt Idler Pulley in my hand right now... which has ripped itself from the Engine as part of destruction.

No Oil Level Warnings, No Errors.. Car just advised it had a Low Voltage as it sat by the side of the road with no Power.

So I'm assuming that where it has Pulled itself from the Engine Block is actually part of the "cast" so I assume I need a New Motor.

I guess at this stage the usual questions are advised...
1) Will a Ford Territory Motor Diesel Fit?
2) What's the best source for a New Motor?

I'll post some pictures of the remnants soon....

[LeighW]

Well BusinessConnected, my engine woes led me to explore a similar path.

You may find that the Ford Territory does indeed fit however my own checking revealed the following:

1. The Ford engine was a LOT cheaper.

2. The Ford engine warranty would not extend to use in a Disco 3.

3. Land Rover would fit the Ford engine but would not warrant it either.

In the end I opted for a complete (not really) engine fitted by an independent LR enthusiast organisation. Saved heaps on the quote that LR dealers 'offered' but still purchased new bits including a turbo and other ancillaries. My alternator was only 7 months old after having been replaced so was used. Yours may be fine.

In Melbourne there will be LR independents (that others from this forum would recommend from personal experience) so that would be my first port of call. They would supply the lot including engine and needed bits and more than likely offer a discount on parts due to the sheer size of the project. BTW, if you don't already realise, it's a body off job.

My total cost was $21 410 but that cost included an opportune upgrade to the latest EAS compressor as I feared it would be the next item to fail inexplicably.

If you go the brand new engine route you may consider the total cost and weigh that up against the market value of your vehicle. I chose to proceed based on the fact that I love the ride, comfort and capability of the D3 and that with the new engine I should get at least another 7 years of enjoyable motoring...

HTH in your decision-making process.

[LandyAndy]

I wonder if the Territory spec motor is a stock Jaguar unit without the D3 off-road improvements to the mojo????.
I own a Territory AWD there is no way it would go where a D3 would.Mine has the XR6 Turbo motor.
Andrew

[sheerluck]

BusinessConnected it sounds like you have the classic oil pump housing failure (that timing belt pulley forms part of that housing).

Doesn't really help you, other than put a name to it. :(

Yes, it means a toasted engine.

[rar110]

There is a TDV6 on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251557117759

[BusinessConnected]

I saw that TDV6 on Ebay... No Warranties implied or otherwise... bit wary of that to be honest..


I did like the idea of the Twin Turbo V8 Diesel instead... How do I make it work in the LR3 :)

[jonesy63]

How about this one:
TDV6 LONG ENGINE - Specials - Triumph Rover Spares South Australia (http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=38&productid=1519)
Says $11950 complete or $9900 bare.

Good luck with the replacement.

Cheers,
Rob

[BusinessConnected]

Probably more likely to go down that path than $6600 on a Used Motor...
However may look at more creative options as well.

[TerryO]

When my TDV6 was replaced with a brand new long engine about three years ago, which by the way was purchased directly from LR, the independent workshop purchased it for (from my failing memory) about $7,800 all up. A long engine doesn't come with injectors or water pump or any other bolt on ancillaries but is pretty much other than that complete including glow plugs.

To get it at that cost they had to order it as a stock part which meant it took just over a week to get there, if it was ordered as a normal part then it was about another $700 more expensive and arrived within a couple of days. Again from memory the RRP of a long engine was about $12,500.

What ever you do replace all the hoses and pulleys when they fit the engine as all of mine needed replacing one by one within six months and cost a fortune in labour to fit.

With hindsight I would have also had new injectors fitted at the same time. While the new engine and labour at the time cost me nothing because the workshop had originally stuffed my old engine they did say they could have done the job all up for around $13,000. Just remember one thing most workshops get the engines for a much cheaper price than what they supply it to you for, they get margin on the parts and then also charge labour.

Regarding warranty it's not that good, it was only 12 months which is better than nothing, but not much.

The trick is to negotiate the deal before letting anyone pull it apart, once your pride and joy is sitting in parts in their workshop your pretty much at their mercy. Ask for a cost on the labour content to fit a new engine first and then haggle over the engine cost. This should give you a bit of a yard stick on what to negotiate the job for, good luck with it.

[Owl]

........... However may look at more creative options as well.

This creative?
Range Rover 2011 V8 4 4L Super Diesel Twin Turbo Engine Range Rover 4 4 | eBay

[Fatso]

Not 100%sure but I think the only difference between the territory and LR eng is the LR has a deeper sump .


Just as a side note did you have the timing belt changed out recently ,ie the 7 year service . Also if you have had all the services done and all other LR stuff complied with then contact LR AU as this is world wide problem for ealier models of TD6 engines where the oil pump cover to which the idler att to breaks off , and press the issue for compensation even if out of warranty ! worth a shot .

[BusinessConnected]

I'm not the original owner, and only purchased the Vehicle about 2 months ago... so I don't fancy my luck with Land Rover.

[Fatso]

I'm not the original owner, and only purchased the Vehicle about 2 months ago... so I don't fancy my luck with Land Rover.



If service record is ok would still give them a shot ,( LR are aware of this issue !!), good luck with it mate , hope someone on hear can point you in the right direction , if you end up with a second hand eng make sure the oil pump is the upgraded one .

[Rich84]

Ouch - sorry to hear mate - sounds like you've had the unfortunate 2.7 oil pump disaster - this is a common enough one - probably the most common cause of catastrophic failure on the TDV6 which is not related to servicing - I'm surprised only one person has mentioned it! Basically the casting where the timing belt tensioner, which is part of the oil pump casting, is not thick enough for the force exerted on it - occasionally it breaks like yours has. Such is the issue that a lot of shops now will not do a timing belt replacement on a TDV6 without replacing the oil pump as well - LR has released a new design oil pump, part no. LR013487 which has much more webbing around the pulley mount, and is made from a different alloy.


Check this page -> DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Cam belt tensioner mount failure survey (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic80001.html)
Lots of info there. Most commonly affects 07MY-08MY, but seems to affect all the D3/RRS 2.7 model years.


Being a known issue, LR is contributing money to claims in the UK - I haven't heard of that happening here, but surely it's worth a shot if you like a good fight!


The Territory V6 is the LR spec engine with single turbo setup. The LR version has apart from the single turbo, a much deeper baffled sump made from pressed tin for improved performance at odd angles, and the ability to suffer slight deformation without failing. I believe all other versions of the Lion v6's have alloy sumps. Across all versions of the engine the block, heads and bottom end are the same and all the anciliaries can be swapped over to make it 'LR Spec'.


If I were to have the same failure I'd be looking for a low km second hand engine or purchasing a wrecked D3/RRS/Terri with the engine intact and then offloading the other parts. Out of those I'd choose the Territory engine because I believe it addresses the TDV6's other elephant in the corner which is the main bearings, however there is some debate on whether the failure of those is caused by design error or bad maintenance.

[AnD3rew]

So my D3 is an MY09 5 years old with only 80,000k's. I plan to keep it another 5 years but at the rate I am going I won't get to the timing belt change for some time but I do do a bit of remote touring.

Should I go and get the pump proactively changed and how big a job is that without doing the timing belt etc.

[BusinessConnected]

a Territory looks like the cheapest source of a Low KM Engine at this stage. I've just changed the Alternator in recent time so that should be ok...

[Fatso]

a Territory looks like the cheapest source of a Low KM Engine at this stage. I've
just changed the Alternator in recent time so that should be ok...


What sort of $ for a territory eng ????

[Fatso]

So my D3 is an MY09 5 years old with only 80,000k's. I plan to keep it another 5 years but at the rate I am going I won't get to the timing belt change for some time but I do do a bit of remote touring.

Should I go and get the pump proactively changed and how big a job is that without doing the timing belt etc.


Timing belt needs to be removed to get to the oil pump , usualy done at belt change or 7 yrs . Not sure about 2009 , it may already have the upgraded oil pump ??? , you will need to check .

[BusinessConnected]

Around $5k for the Territory Engine at this stage with Low kms... (20-30k)

[~Rich~]

Around $5k for the Territory Engine at this stage with Low kms... (20-30k)


That sounds a great deal, way to go. ;)

[BusinessConnected]

Yeah... doesn't sound to bad... just have to work out how much it'll cost to get fitted....

[101RRS]

Should I go and get the pump proactively changed and how big a job is that without doing the timing belt etc.

As far as I am aware the oil pump housing failure does not occur on engines that have not had the timing belt change - it results as mentioned due to weak castings but this only comes into play when the area is disturbed for the timing belt changed and everything torqued back up.

So - as far as I am aware - if you have not had the timing belt changed there is no need to do a pre-emptive strike. Change the timing belt and all bets are off - get the new oil pump housing.

Garry

[Rich84]

Garry apparently the failures do happen whether you've had the belt done or not - check out the UK forums on that - it's only a small portion of these pumps it happens to, but the cost-benefit of not changing it is surely outweighed by the cost of the engine should something go wrong. FWIW mine is an 08MY and my original casing has no sign of fractures/impending death.


Pump design changed somewhere in 09 and all 2.7 D4's have the updated pump. So the the Ford should as well, considering the engines are all made at the same plant whether they are for LR, Ford, Jag or PSA applications. The pumps are pretty easy to distinguish - much beefier around the timing belt tensioner mounting.


As for changing them, as a preventative I would definitely do it, as they are known to let go at any mileage. If you are somewhat mechanically minded and are comfortable doing V6 timing belts it is not too hard a job to do yourself. You MUST lock the flywheel/flex plate to do it - to do that you need to insert a special tool (easy to acquire) into a hole above where the starter sits. From there you use a large breaker (mine was 1200mm) to undo the front crank bolt and remove the pulley. From there it's easy - uninstall/reinstall the pump (no special tricks here), install new front main seal, reinstall the pulley (not keyed to the crank, which is why you need to lock the flywheel) with a new bolt, tighten to 100nm then another 90deg, install new rollers/pulleys (tighten large rollers to 45nm, tensioner bolt only loosely, install new belt, load up tensioner so that arrow lines up with window on tensioner, tighten the tensioner bolt to 24nm. Remove all locking tools, turn the engine by hand a few times then recheck that all marks line up again. Triple check all torques! Reinstall starter/starter bracket/fuel cooler if you have an 07MY+, reinstall all the other crap you took off for the timing cover. Enjoy not worrying about your engine blowing up!


My timing belt kit cost about $165, then $50 each for the large rollers, $90 for the pump from UK, about $25 for bolts and seals, $100 for the locking tools, and the whole job was about 6 hours I think.

[rar110]

I'm not the original owner, and only purchased the Vehicle about 2 months ago... so I don't fancy my luck with Land Rover.

That's a shocker. What year and mileage?

I would push land rover for at least a part of the cost.

[rar110]

So my D3 is an MY09 5 years old with only 80,000k's. I plan to keep it another 5 years but at the rate I am going I won't get to the timing belt change for some time but I do do a bit of remote touring. Should I go and get the pump proactively changed and how big a job is that without doing the timing belt etc.

I was told by a Brisbane LR specialist the new housing started in 2008. Sheerluck's 2007 D3 project vehicle had the old housing. See his post below:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/168610-sheerlucks-project-d3-10.html

Also, I was told the problem with the old housing occurs because the housing bolts are over tightened when the timing belt gets changed.

[catsman]

I'm not the original owner, and only purchased the Vehicle about 2 months ago... so I don't fancy my luck with Land Rover.

Did you buy off a dealer? Under 160,000kms and 7 year old cars have a 3 month statutory warranty which covers engine failure.

Also, as it is a known issue you may at least get a cheaper engine off Landrover rather than pay retail price.

[Fatso]

Yeah... doesn't sound to bad... just have to work out how much it'll cost to get fitted....



Sounds like a good price !!!, when all done can you give us some us feed back on the project and outcome . Thanks Al.

[Rich84]

I was told by a Brisbane LR specialist the new housing started in 2008. Sheerluck's 2007 D3 project vehicle had the old housing. See his post below:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/168610-sheerlucks-project-d3-10.html

Also, I was told the problem with the old housing occurs because the housing bolts are over tightened when the timing belt gets changed.


Might've started being made in 2008 but the MY08s still have the old casing. Can't comment on MY09.

[sheerluck]

I was told by a Brisbane LR specialist the new housing started in 2008. Sheerluck's 2007 D3 project vehicle had the old housing. See his post below:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/168610-sheerlucks-project-d3-10.html

Also, I was told the problem with the old housing occurs because the housing bolts are over tightened when the timing belt gets changed.

Yes, mine was the old version, but didn't show any sign of any cracking, even though it had been through a belt change on time (mileage wise). I changed the belt again because I wanted to change the oil pump housing, plus it should never need changing again in my ownership.

[BusinessConnected]

I've purchased a 30,000km Ford Territory Engine from a Wrecker (Complete Engine with Turbo etc.) for $3500 Delivered.

So hopefully it works in a Landy!!! :)

I'll keep the thread up to date as things progress.

[~Rich~]

I've purchased a 30,000km Ford Territory Engine from a Wrecker (Complete Engine with Turbo etc.) for $3500 Delivered.

So hopefully it works in a Landy!!! :)

I'll keep the thread up to date as things progress.

Best wishes on your new motor, yes please let us all know how you go.

[LandyAndy]

That sounds great buying.
Hope it all goes well.
Andrew

[101RRS]

I've purchased a 30,000km Ford Territory Engine from a Wrecker (Complete Engine with Turbo etc.) for $3500 Delivered.

So hopefully it works in a Landy!!! :)

I'll keep the thread up to date as things progress.

Have you confirmed that your old engine is actually dead?? Normally the oil pump housing goes and the engine keeps on running and seizes due to no lubrication. However I formed the impression from your original post that the engine was stopped quickly. So if it is not seized the oil pump housing holes and other bits could be repaired and the engine put back on the road.

Garry

[BusinessConnected]

Gary:
The Timing Belt Tensioner has Ripped away from the Engine Block (or what I assume is the Engine Block)


I have attached 2 x Pictures of Damaged Idler...

[101RRS]

In theory could be welded back on as long as the basic block was sound but is risky. Likewise you do not know if the engine actually suffered oil starvation - can only run an exceptionally short time before it happens.

But is irrelevant now and I think the new engine will give you confidence that you need that things will be better.

Garry

[BusinessConnected]

I haven't completed the Engine Order as yet...
I will need to have a closer look at the Block tomorrow...

[sheerluck]

Gary:
The Timing Belt Tensioner has Ripped away from the Engine Block (or what I assume is the Engine Block)


I have attached 2 x Pictures of Damaged Idler...

BC, that idler pulley is the one that attaches to the top left hand area of the oil pump housing, and not the engine block itself. You can see it in the picture below, just above and to the left of the crank:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/07/793.jpg

It may be worthwhile spending a little bit of cash and remove and replace that part and see if you have an engine that will spin. But yes, that is the issue that has plagued a number of TDV6 engines.

[BusinessConnected]

I've spoken to the wife, and after the catastrophic loss of Power the Car only ran for 100 Meters or so...


She noticed some Slowed Acceleration around 5 minutes before that... So that could be some issue before the force on the Idler was enough to snap it....


I guess in the worse case, I want to get an "Updated" Oil Pump Housing/Timing Set for my 07 Diesel D3 (we have twin D3's) so I can try that in this car first... if it solves the problem fantastic....


If it doesn't... no real harm other than some labour.

[BusinessConnected]

Speed would have been quite low... Less than 20-30kmh....
Is there any other way to check whether Engine is seized etc?

[scarry]

What about the top end,would there be a good chance it is damaged as well?
Pistons hitting valves?

[sheerluck]

Speed would have been quite low... Less than 20-30kmh....
Is there any other way to check whether Engine is seized etc?

Can't really check until you get the new oil pump, get the belt back on, and then try and turn the crank by hand. If you try and do it before you get it all timed together, you might be having valves and pistons meeting.

There is a good chance that that might have already happened, just as scarry says, but I reckon a couple of hours labour is worth is to find out for sure.

Better spending on a couple of hours labour, than spending on 20 hours that you might not have needed.

[rar110]

I agree it's worth spending some money to be satisfied the motor is stuffed.

I would also get some firm advice about the cost of fitting the 4.0 petrol. Either way I've been told it's 2 days labour to lift and refit the body to swap a motor out. It will probably require welding new engine mounts (need to check there is no wiring inside chassis where welding). You also need to ensure the transmission, transfer and diffs have identical ratios. If buying the motor you need to get with it any transmission adaptor and maybe a different flywheel (I don't know if it's different but need to check).

I'd either fix it or seriously consider selling it and buying a cheap 4.0 D3.

[BusinessConnected]

Why would I want to fit the 4.0L Petrol?

[sheerluck]

Rar110, definitely not worth it swapping to a 4.0. You'd need to change front and rear diffs, the gearbox, the fuel tank and lines, radiator and hoses, ecus....

Any gain in engine cost would be swiftly lost.

[scarry]

Rar110, definitely not worth it swapping to a 4.0. You'd need to change front and rear diffs, the gearbox, the fuel tank and lines, radiator and hoses, ecus....

Any gain in engine cost would be swiftly lost.

Resale would also be a lot less with a petrol

[rar110]

Why would I want to fit the 4.0L Petrol?

Sorry when you said territory motor I assumed turbo petrol motor.

[Epic pooh]

The Terry uses the same PSA 2.7 TD as the Disco ... or largely the same ... very interested to see how things go if this conversion is attempted !

[sheerluck]

The Terry uses the same PSA 2.7 TD as the Disco ... or largely the same ... very interested to see how things go if this conversion is attempted !

Disco_Mikey on Disco3 had to change his engine, and replaced it with the Jag equivalent. There were a few differences, but the basic block was the same.

I'll also be interested to see how this changeover goes. Lots of pics please!

[BusinessConnected]

Hopefully a changeover is not required... but we'll see :)

[Epic pooh]

Still, uses the wrong fuel and has too few cylinders and too much huffin' ... :wasntme:

Given that the basic block is very common, will be very good for the community to have a range of options as the vehicles age and become more problematic. Likewise, be very interested in seeing the progress !

[BusinessConnected]

I agree... being that the cost of a Territory Diesel is around 50-60% of a Land Rover TDV6, it opens up a lot of options if it's suitable.

[Ean Austral]

I recall seeing a post on the UK site that gave the vin range of the oil pump casing in question. The reason I remember it was cause mine fell like 20 inside the range. ;(

Best of luck with the engine.

Cheers Ean

[Fatso]

Hi Businesconnected , Any update with your project or outcome of original problem ?? , would be good to follow up , Thanks.

[BusinessConnected]

Hi Everyone,
I thought I'd post an update for you all.
Car is at my Mechanic in Werribee now, Ford Territory Engine has arrived and the "dissembly" has begun...

Initial impressions:
1) The Wiring Loom between the Territory and Discovery 3 is different, 2 x Connectors look the Same, one is completely different...

2) We've pulled out Front Differential etc and we're going to try and get the Engine Out without Removing the Body... we'll see how we go.

3) Sump is definitely different and looks like it will need to be changed with the Sump from the Original Engine.

I ended up getting a Complete Ford Engine from a Vehicle with 18,000km on it.. Complete with Air Con Compressor and Alternator etc for $3500.

[101RRS]

It is easier lifting the body - is designed for that - probably easier than pulling the front diff etc out to get at the engine with access issues.

Garry

[BusinessConnected]

Garry:
I agree... but my Mechanic is sort of looking at this as a potential "Future Enterprise" so going to see which way is quicker going forward..

Hopefully this process will allow for a "cheaper" Engine Replacement for people going forward.

When you factor in getting a Near New Alternator, Air Con Compressor, Diesel Fuel Pump, Timing Belt, EGR Valves etc... $3500 is actually a steal....

[~Rich~]

Garry:
I agree... but my Mechanic is sort of looking at this as a potential "Future Enterprise" so going to see which way is quicker going forward..

Hopefully this process will allow for a "cheaper" Engine Replacement for people going forward.

When you factor in getting a Near New Alternator, Air Con Compressor, Diesel Fuel Pump, Timing Belt, EGR Valves etc... $3500 is actually a steal....

Yes exactly, those ancillaries are worth more than what you paid for the engine!!

I have a question though, if say donor Territory is a recent model and you have an early D3 which could have the EGR valves blanked without any annoying error messages will this still be the case once the latter engine is transplanted?
I'm just wondering if it is software only the issue?

Best of Luck with this transplant, it may be the way to go in the future.

[BusinessConnected]

I don't really know for certain... But I think its a Software Issue more than anything else because of the Euro IV Compliance.

In any event this is a 2008 Truck which had the EGR's Blanked... and had a Check Engine Light.

[Rich84]

Garry:
I agree... but my Mechanic is sort of looking at this as a potential "Future Enterprise" so going to see which way is quicker going forward..

Hopefully this process will allow for a "cheaper" Engine Replacement for people going forward.

When you factor in getting a Near New Alternator, Air Con Compressor, Diesel Fuel Pump, Timing Belt, EGR Valves etc... $3500 is actually a steal....

You're dead right about that being a steal - any different parts you could easily sell on fleabay too.

[BusinessConnected]

The Beast Lives!!!!

I'll try and post a more detailed explanation later, however I thought I'd update this thread to say that Yes... a Territory Engine is in my Discovery 3, Running... No Errors on the Dash... Everything working as expected.

"Cliff Notes Version"
Engine Removal
- Old Engine Confirmed Ill (Rotating Crank by Hand isn't possible)
- Old Engine Out of Car without Removing Body
(Bonnet at Vertical, Gearbox Dropped Down to Improve Egress Angle, Front Diff Removed)
- Electrics/Cabling/End Connections are different on Discovery to Territory
(Appears Connectors at ECU End are a Sort of "Ford" Standard)

Things that need to change/come off old Engine
- Sump from D3 (Ford One has Whole through it)
- Radiator Fan Pulley
(Territory has Electric Fan... D3 has Viscous Fan... Territory has an Idler Pulley in same place as Fan Pulley.. can be swapped but....
- Plastic Timing Belt Cover
(Territory one would leave a Inch or so Gap around Radiator Fan Pulley.. whch is too much of a risk for me)
- 2 x Knock Sensors from Land Rover Engine
(Territory has the Wholes for them.. but not fitted)
- Power Steering Pump
(Territory has Electric Steering.. No Hydraulic so this needs to be added)
- Alternator/AC Compressor/Pulleys etc
(This is because Territory has 6 Fin Belts rather than 8 Fin Belts (due to not having to drive the VC Fan and Power Steering Pump)

Every Connector on the Wiring Loom from the D3 Engine fits the Territory Engine... No Sensors were needed to be swapped over etc.. My D3 is a Euro IV Spec 2008 Model... so this might not be exactly the same for a Earlier Model.. but I'm pretty certain it would be.

[BSM]

Every Connector on the Wiring Loom from the D3 Engine fits the Territory Engine... No Sensors were needed to be swapped over etc.. My D3 is a Euro IV Spec 2008 Model... so this might not be exactly the same for a Earlier Model.. but I'm pretty certain it would be.

Congrats. Look forward to the details.

[DiscoDB]

The Beast Lives!!!!

I'll try and post a more detailed explanation later, however I thought I'd update this thread to say that Yes... a Territory Engine is in my Discovery 3, Running... No Errors on the Dash... Everything working as expected.

Great outcome. Thanks for the update. I am guessing used Territory TDV6 engines will now go up in price. (-:

Was it easier to not remove body but instead pull the front end off, or would your mechanic not do it the same way again?

[BusinessConnected]

I think there will be plenty of good Low KM TDV6 Territory Engines to suit us for some time to come.

Mechanic saw Youtube clip with Body off... we wanted to see if it could be done "Body On"

[Epic pooh]

Good news bc and thanks for the update ! Be very interested to hear how it goes when you get it out on the road.

It's my understanding that that official procedure for removing the V8 is body on and I've seen reports from the UK of TD engine change outs with body on so your mechanics approach seems quite reasonable.

[BusinessConnected]

Hello Everyone:
Just confirming one week on... Everything is working as expected.. No Problems at all :)

[Nomad9]

Hi Owl,
Just love those options............nice...............

[LeighW]

Congrats BusinessConnected on progress so far - especially taking the path that you did with the Ford Territory engine change over.

And as a guide for future engine swaps what was the approx. cost to your pocket (not including the cost of the engine as you've already mentioned that)?

[BusinessConnected]

I was out of pocket $7630 All Up.
(Engine + Labour + Extra D3 Timing Cover Used)

[~Rich~]

Excellent result, for such a barely run in engine you have a bargain.
Congratulations.

All done with body on?

[BusinessConnected]

Yes Body On...

[kiwirich]

Well done Businessconnected,
That's an excellent result.

Do you know if the Trans fits as well ..........

Just thinking

Richard

[Rich84]

Trans is a 6HP26 but I'm guessing the body is different because the Ford transfer case is different. Also not sure what is different between RWD and AWD Territory drivetrain setups.

[kiwirich]

Thanks Rich84,
I was thinking of a similar approach to the Engine, Basic block may be OK including Clutchpacks etc & just change out the Valve bobby and the Mechatronics parts.

May be cheaper than a $7000.00 rebuild.
Maybe
Richard

[discomania]

I've followed this thread with great interest, as I'm likely to replace my D2 TD5 before too much longer. As I'll probably be looking at a low klm D4 I'm interested in whether these issues that have been reported on the 2.7 ltr TDV6 are also known in either the 3.0 ltr TDV6 or the SDV6. Any reports out there?

[Rich84]

Thanks Rich84,
I was thinking of a similar approach to the Engine, Basic block may be OK including Clutchpacks etc & just change out the Valve bobby and the Mechatronics parts.

May be cheaper than a $7000.00 rebuild.
Maybe
Richard


I agree with that - I've been looking at something similar for rebuilding mine if I needed to - ie, new clutches, new seals, rebuilt mechatronic, new TC.


$7000 for a rebuild is lunacy, they're doing rebuilds in the UK for 2000 pounds. It's possible that for the AWD Terri Ford has bought the LR version of the 6HP26 and installed a different transfer. It would make sense seeing as LR has already done all the programming to make it work properly with the TDV6. You'd need part no's to know for sure.

[SuperMono]

My theory is that a written off Territory is the go if someone wants to keep their D3, or purchase a broken one for rescue. Use the bits you need and sell off either the whole lot to a wrecker or part it out yourself until you are left with scrap.

Statutory Write-off going under the hammer this week.
This one would be near perfect as the front is pretty much undamaged, same auction also has a repairable wreck available.
2014 Ford Territory SZ TS S/Wagon (http://www.manheim.com.au/damaged-vehicles/4221136/2014-ford-territory-sz-ts-s-wagon'referringPage=SearchResults)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/09/28.jpg

[shanegtr]

It's certainly a good thing that we have more options for replacement engines. I would imagine that the disel territory's would outnumber discos on the road! So best case it should help out with parts availablility as well

[MRMOPARMAN]

I just got myself into a similar predicament. Just bought a 2007 disco 3 with blown motor for the missus. Was looking into territory motors, looks like my homework has already been done for me :)

Businessconnected - if you dont mind could you please pm me the name of the worshop you got tye changeover done at, and where you got the territory motor please? Found some cheapies, but none at $3.5k yet!

[BusinessConnected]

Apologies mate.. didn't see the reply to this thread.
Have sent a PM....

[AnD3rew]

So what about things like turbos and injectors and hp diesel fuel pumps etc that are really expensive to replace fro LR, are they cheaper to buy from Ford and are they just interchangeable?

[BusinessConnected]

Well I'm using a Ford Turbo, Injectors & HPFP at the moment...
No Idea if they are cheaper as parts from Ford or not... but they are working on this engine :)

[justinc]

Hpfp is a ford part, turbo is generic, and injectors are common to lr and ford, they are both the same engine basically

Jc

[Rich84]

Don't forget the HPFP, injectors etc are available new from the UK at pretty fair prices. Certainly nothing like the $3500 - $5000 the dealers here are quoting for HPFP replacement!

[winaje]

BC, can you please update us on your impressions of the swap over, a year down the track?

[BusinessConnected]

Still chugging along fine... No issues to speak of hen it comes to Engine etc...

[PeterOZ]

my D3 did the timing belt thing and destroyed the motor. Was about 20,000km after I had timing belts replaced but not the oil pump housing. Was advised that it was optional and not to waste my money :twisted::nazilock:


No redress when the engine beat itself to death. Hasa low km Territory engine fitted by same indie LR specialist in Brisbane, you can guess who.


about 12,000 to 15,000 km on it and 6 months warranty. Engine going strong but but have a awful rumble noise that is getting worse.


Not sure if it is transmission or tranfer case bearing causing it.


Goes in for service next month so will get them to advise.


Oh the other bit that gets swapped with the territory heart transplant is the engine mounts and bellhousing, they get swapped from the original LR donk.


cheers
me

[winaje]

Can anyone advise if the territory flexplate is the same as the LR one? Buying an extremely low KM unit in the next couple of days and need to know if I have to get the wrecker to leave the flexplate on...

[rar110]

So the original motor's dead, if yes is the cause known?

[LRD414]

Will had a strange noise and then found the serpentine belt tensioner out of position, followed by total failure of tensioner in <this thread> (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/229980-2-7-strange-engine-noise-please-assist.html) a couple of weeks ago. Things still sounded bad after belt was removed in his last post. So perhaps it wrecked a few things ....

Scott

[rar110]

Will had a strange noise and then found the serpentine belt tensioner out of position, followed by total failure of tensioner in <this thread> (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/229980-2-7-strange-engine-noise-please-assist.html) a couple of weeks ago. Things still sounded bad after belt was removed in his last post. So perhaps it wrecked a few things .... Scott

Thanks, I just don't understand how an accessory belt or tensioner failure would cause engine damage.

[winaje]

Have bought a territory engine with 155kms (one hundred and fifty five) on the clock for $4000, with turbo, AC compressor, alternator, flex plate, exhaust manifolds (for gaskets) etc. When I physically have it in my possession I will update the thread with the sellers details. My mechanic mate and I will be documenting the process and he is looking to offer body on territory to D3 engine swaps as a service on the north eastern side of Melbourne.

Once the D3 is fully operational again we will be dismantling the old engine to find the fault.

[winaje]

Will had a strange noise and then found the serpentine belt tensioner out of position, followed by total failure of tensioner in <this thread> (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/229980-2-7-strange-engine-noise-please-assist.html) a couple of weeks ago. Things still sounded bad after belt was removed in his last post. So perhaps it wrecked a few things ....

Scott

Trailered the D3 to a well know indie near me, who had a look and listen. Based on what he said, and the fact that I am due for timing belts on the old motor anyway I decided to go with a new motor, which will cost not a lot more than possibly fixing the old one and doing the belts.

The issue sounds to me and a couple of mechanic friends, like it's in the core of the motor. Will know when we tear it down, and will create my own thread.

[LRD414]

Have bought a territory engine with 155kms (one hundred and fifty five) on the clock for $4000


[emoji15] wow that's cheap. Well done.

[winaje]

[emoji15] wow that's cheap. Well done.

Yeah I'm pretty happy. He also has a 30000km engine for $3500. He said that the last 4 Territory engines he has sold are all destined for Discoverys lol

[~Rich~]

Yeah I'm pretty happy. He also has a 30000km engine for $3500. He said that the last 4 Territory engines he has sold are all destined for Discoverys lol

Well they wouldn't bother putting it back in another Territory!

[johnhorgan]

Can anyone advise if the territory flexplate is the same as the LR one? Buying an extremely low KM unit in the next couple of days and need to know if I have to get the wrecker to leave the flexplate on...

Flex plate is different in Territory supplied to me.
There is an integral spacer attached to the flex plate on the Territory, which mounts the flex plate about an inch further out from the crankshaft, towards the torque converter.

[Disco234]

The Beast Lives!!!!

I'll try and post a more detailed explanation later, however I thought I'd update this thread to say that Yes... a Territory Engine is in my Discovery 3, Running... No Errors on the Dash... Everything working as expected.

"Cliff Notes Version"
Engine Removal
- Old Engine Confirmed Ill (Rotating Crank by Hand isn't possible)
- Old Engine Out of Car without Removing Body
(Bonnet at Vertical, Gearbox Dropped Down to Improve Egress Angle, Front Diff Removed)
- Electrics/Cabling/End Connections are different on Discovery to Territory
(Appears Connectors at ECU End are a Sort of "Ford" Standard)

Things that need to change/come off old Engine
- Sump from D3 (Ford One has Whole through it)
- Radiator Fan Pulley
(Territory has Electric Fan... D3 has Viscous Fan... Territory has an Idler Pulley in same place as Fan Pulley.. can be swapped but....
- Plastic Timing Belt Cover
(Territory one would leave a Inch or so Gap around Radiator Fan Pulley.. whch is too much of a risk for me)
- 2 x Knock Sensors from Land Rover Engine
(Territory has the Wholes for them.. but not fitted)
- Power Steering Pump
(Territory has Electric Steering.. No Hydraulic so this needs to be added)
- Alternator/AC Compressor/Pulleys etc
(This is because Territory has 6 Fin Belts rather than 8 Fin Belts (due to not having to drive the VC Fan and Power Steering Pump)

Every Connector on the Wiring Loom from the D3 Engine fits the Territory Engine... No Sensors were needed to be swapped over etc.. My D3 is a Euro IV Spec 2008 Model... so this might not be exactly the same for a Earlier Model.. but I'm pretty certain it would be.


Did you have to replace the high pressure diesel pump?

Thanks in advance

[BusinessConnected]

Did you have to replace the high pressure diesel pump?

Thanks in advance

I didn't have to at the time... but I believe that may change depending on the Year of the Car.

[shack]

I didn't have to at the time... but I believe that may change depending on the Year of the Car.I think that may be the car I now have?

[loanrangie]

Did you have to replace the high pressure diesel pump?

Thanks in advance

If your disco is a Euro4 spec ie post MY07 then the fuel system is the same so you can keep all the territory fueling system.

I also had the timing cover explosion as mentioned at the start of this thread but i was fortunate that mine went while i was stationary in my driveway at idle, that meant very little damage and 5 years later still running as good as it ever did.
Apart from the new oil pump and belt kit which i already bought for the upcoming belt change the only parts i had to replace were the LH exhaust cam (it went banana shape), a few cam cap bolts and the front timing pulley which i damaged while assembling the cam for replacement.
Timing cover had a few cracks but i was able to plastic weld it back to a usable condition.