Coolant for 300tdi, non glycol type??

[swivelrat]

Bought this stuff about a year ago from a reputable shop, asked if it was suited to my defender130 300 tdi, yep. So I get around to using it, checking out the specs etc last night, and note that it is non glycol type? I guess it be just green water with some anti corrosion additive. Is this really any good for the system. I dont live in a freezing environment but am weary on introducing new stuff to an old motor. What is the best coolant for these motors.

[Felix]

I tried this stuff in my RRC with a p76 V8, on dual fuel and with an alloy radiator and thermo fans. Never overheated, never had a problem. Race cars use it because it evaporates on the track if you have an off moment. I guess with a landrover it would evaporate when it leaks out of the P gasket too!

I suppose on newer vehicles which run higher cooling system pressures (and therefore temperatures for efficiency and emissions) you would need the anti-boil characteristics of glycol. Or if you venture to the snow/cold climates. But on a 300TDI which doesn't see those climates.. I guess you could run it?

[PAT303]

Don't stuff with the cooling system,overheating is the standout number one killer of LR engines,Only use Glycol coolant,Nulon is good,I use Texaco extra cool gold and none other.Don't experiment with the cooling system. Pat

[mox]

With aluminium alloy components, the anti corrosion aspect of coolant is very important. However, from what I gather, if you don't need anti freeze, don't use it. Apparently ethylene glycol is less efficient for transferring heat than straight water. I think it is the component of some coolants that leaves a film of low conductivity on surfaces inside the radiator, block, head etc which also reduces efficiency of heat transfer.


Note how recommendations of what proportion of anti freeze to use is often for conditions in countries with much colder winter temperatures than ours. eg I recall that 33% ethylene glycol will protect down to minus 18 degrees. Also a comment from a machinery operating contractor in a Victorian Alpine area where it snows in winter that you don't need much. Probably very rarely gets down to minus 9 and usually temps are warmer during the day. In Australia, best to find what straight anti corrosion coolant is compatible with coolant / anti freeze solution used. Another reason for not using more anti freeze than necessary is that it is expensive.

[Judo]

I'm pretty sure it's the glycol that increases the boiling point too isn't it? What is the boiling point of the other stuff? I would guess it has something in it too and that's important. A TDI can run at coolant temp over 100*C and still be considered normal and safe.

[mox]

The temperature at which water - and other liquids boil depend on the air pressure. At sea level this is about 15 psi and water boils at 100degrees Celsius. At high altitudes is lower than this. \The purpose of having pressurised cooling systems, eg with radiator caps which blow at 10 or 13 psi is to allow the motor to run a bit hotter without losing water. If you release pressure, water boils away until temperature of that remaining drops to 100 degrees. Producing steam or water vapour, which air at under 100% humidity will hold takes about 5.4 times the amount of heat required to heat the same amount of water from just above freezing point to just below boiling point. ie Latent Heat of Vaporisation.

[mox]

A disadvantage of ethylene glycol solution compared with straight water is that it has lower Specific Heat, which makes it less efficient for heat transfer. ie It takes more heat to raise the temperature of water than it does to raise that of the same weight or volume of ethylene glycol.

[Judo]

It seems you have a good point. I thought the increased boiling point was a combination of an anti-boil additive and pressure, but I just looked it up and water @ 15psi boils at 121*C. More than enough and is roughly what I thought the boiling point of coolant is.

x2 on ethylene glycol has lower Specific Heat.

[workingonit]

I was thinking as Mox, pressure system allows higher boiling. The alcohol stops freezing at zero. TV program (Muscle Car?) they used demineralised water with alloy head (and block?) - although they said it was just in case of spillage at the race track, no green residues under foot - no comment about long term use. I have seen arguments about merits of anti-corrosion additives, some swearing by it and others going demineralised only.

[PAT303]

A disadvantage of ethylene glycol solution compared with straight water is that it has lower Specific Heat, which makes it less efficient for heat transfer. ie It takes more heat to raise the temperature of water than it does to raise that of the same weight or volume of ethylene glycol.

Thats why you don't stuff with it,keep it all in good condition and if under heavy conditions switch the brain on and drive accordingly.I did have good results with both my 1HZ's using water wetter but those things were pox riddled heaps of ****,keep it all good and replace every 12 months and you'll never have trouble. Pat

[Jode]

This is what the workshop manual says for the 300 TDI:

CAUTION: Anti-freeze content must never be allowed to fall below 25% otherwise damage to the engine is liable to occur.
Also, anti-freeze content should not exceed 60% as this will greatly reduce the cooling effect of the coolant.

[mox]

Remember that those who wrote the manual probably mainly want to cover themselves for conditions in UK and nearby European countries. I remember reading somewhere that 33% ethylene glycol will protect down to minus 18 degrees Celsius - presumably for a sustained period. Also, that in Australia, the only place where a lower temperature than this has ever been officially recorded in in the Snowy Mountains.


Re possible damage to motors from very low temperatures. In the very dry winter drought around here in 1982, there were many severe frosts but often relatively warm days. Note how moisture around provides a buffer against extreme temperatures. In those times, there was much less use of anti corrosion and anti freeze in radiators. There were a lot of cases in mornings of vehicles - which had most likely generally not been under cover overnight pulled up by side of road when they boiled - with steam coming out of radiator cap because the core below it was still frozen so no coolant could pass through it to be cooled.

[Judo]

Ethylene Glycol Heat-Transfer Fluid (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html)

Interesting point, and somewhat indicates that in Oz we should be mixing more like 33% not 50%.

[Judo]

Ethylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol)

Also this wiki article notes that it does increase the boiling point of water, however it doesn't say by how much...

[Dougal]

Ethylene Glycol Heat-Transfer Fluid (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html)

Interesting point, and somewhat indicates that in Oz we should be mixing more like 33% not 50%.

I'd expect even 33% to be excessive for all aussie conditions. But I accidentally bought same coolant from Repco that had very little glycol in it. It was essentially anti corrosive only.
Bit of a trap as it was sold in a frosty area and looked like the real stuff.

[swivelrat]

Dropped by a radiator specialist today, he said no worries with glycol free coolant, it has all the properties it needs for corrosion etc, bar the glycol which is only needed to prevent freezing. He said it is far more efficient as a coolant which Im very interested in living in WA. He also said that glycol is really nasty stuff, poisonous in fact. Im always sus on trialling new stuff but I don't always trust the manufacturer's specs either. ATF in the gearbox is a good example of this.

[PAT303]

I ran ATF in my R380 and it now has 470,000 trouble free K's on it,have run my Tdi on Glycol coolant for 470,000 K's and still have all the original cooling system fitted,if you want to risk your engine by not running what the designer of the engine recommends thats up to you. Pat

[gromit]

With anti-freeze the 33% ratio also means you have the correct dilution of anti corrosion additives, weaker that that and you might not get full corrosion protection.

I've used Castrol Anti-Freeze Anti-Boil at 33% since I got my 300Tdi (1998) with no issues. Changed every couple of years.

There were concerns a while back with some of the new long-life corrosion protection methods eg. OAT, HOAT etc. but these seem to have been overcome. I contacted some manufacturers regarding coolant for old Land Rovers a couple of years ago http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-land-rovers/154742-coolants-older-engines.html

Ethylene Glycol is poisonous, as mentioned, and from memory outlawed in some Countries (France ?).




Colin

[Dougal]

Ethylene Glycol is poisonous, as mentioned, and from memory outlawed in some Countries (France ?).

Colin

Propylene Glycol however is food grade.

[PAT303]

With anti-freeze the 33% ratio also means you have the correct dilution of anti corrosion additives, weaker that that and you might not get full corrosion protection.

I've used Castrol Anti-Freeze Anti-Boil at 33% since I got my 300Tdi (1998) with no issues. Changed every couple of years.

There were concerns a while back with some of the new long-life corrosion protection methods eg. OAT, HOAT etc. but these seem to have been overcome. I contacted some manufacturers regarding coolant for old Land Rovers a couple of years ago http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-land-rovers/154742-coolants-older-engines.html

Ethylene Glycol is poisonous, as mentioned, and from memory outlawed in some Countries (France ?).




Colin

My advice would be as long as you don't drink it as your filling your radiator you'll be fine :angel:. Pat

[Kappa130]

Weve been looking at glycol free coolants for work . A non glycol type coolant (ELI - extended life inhibitor) has better cooling properties than a glycol based coolant (ELC - extended life coolant) . worth a couple of degree cooler running (it is in our case anyway , where we were looking for any benifit we could get) .
The other bonus of running an ELI is reduced risk of fire, If you boil of the water and leave the glycol . you can then ignite the glycol .

However ELI cannot protest against freezing , which is why it's not recommended for below freezing temperatures .
Theres quite few companies doing glycol free coolant now to.