Over-heating Holden 186

[jdobson]

Thought I would share pictures of my water-pump that I replaced over the weekend. The Land Rover had been getting very hot when in traffic - really hot! There was also a groan / rumble coming from the water pump so I decided it was time to replace. I had read various threads elsewhere that the replacement pumps aren't as good as the original version but I think regardless, this should make a big improvement:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/901.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/jdobson1981/media/Waterpumpold_zps6cf652c8.jpg.html)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/12/902.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/jdobson1981/media/Waterpumpold2_zps8b6e166e.jpg.html)
I was pretty surprised by how bad it was! Needless to say the replacement has made an instant improvement to running temperatures and actually the engine is running much happier in general. I am amazed it hadn't suffered more with over-heating given that water would have barely been circulating through the system. I guess the previous owner had been using straight water as the coolant. I have now flushed the system repeatedly and replaced with a proper anti-rust coolant.


Also fixed the leaking exhaust.. the engine is so much more refined now. A great weekend of tinkering!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Fussy fussy fussy! :D

Holden engines do suffer overheating particularly off road, most likely because of the poor pull of the fan and the small volume of oil in the sump. That original pump would not help one bit.

If you're going to do a bit of off road in your Holden powered Landy you may want to consider a few things.

Oil starvation. A lot of Holden sumps have the bulge at the front or the rear of the engine. This causes oil starvation on steel inclines for front bulges, for rear bulges the starvation happens on steep decents. The best sump is one off an HT model with a centre bulge. make sure you get the correct oil pickup at the same time.

Air flow If using one of the steel 4 bladed fans, consider replacing it with a later multi bladed plastic fans particularly one with the viscous coupling. Otherwise fit a thermostatic controlled pusher electric fan on the front of the radiator.

Oil volume.
Once oil is hot it both breaks down not protecting the engine as well and takes a lot of cooling to get the temp back down. You can improve this by adding oil volume. Enlarged sump, some people weld a bigger buldge in the sump to add several litres of oil. Oil cooler, fitting a sandwich plate between the oil pump and spin on filter will allow you to fit an external oil cooler, this both adds volume and cools the oil. Many sandwich plates have a bi-metal bypass valve which allows the oil to bypass the cooler when the oil temp is low and opens when the temp rises.

[jdobson]

That's great advice, many thanks. I was considering fitting an electric fan behind the front grill to give a little more cooling ability should it be required. I think the previous owner may have fitted one many moons ago - the front grill has a circular hole in it.


Mine has the sump bulb at the back, I haven't noticed any issues with that but then I haven't done much extreme, prolonged offroading.


I am really amazed it wasn't over-heating more often with the levels of corrosion seen on the water-pump.

[itfarmer]

Fussy fussy fussy! :D

Holden engines do suffer overheating particularly off road, most likely because of the poor pull of the fan and the small volume of oil in the sump. That original pump would not help one bit.

If you're going to do a bit of off road in your Holden powered Landy you may want to consider a few things.

Oil starvation. A lot of Holden sumps have the bulge at the front or the rear of the engine. This causes oil starvation on steel inclines for front bulges, for rear bulges the starvation happens on steep decents. The best sump is one off an HT model with a centre bulge. make sure you get the correct oil pickup at the same time.

Air flow If using one of the steel 4 bladed fans, consider replacing it with a later multi bladed plastic fans particularly one with the viscous coupling. Otherwise fit a thermostatic controlled pusher electric fan on the front of the radiator.

Oil volume.
Once oil is hot it both breaks down not protecting the engine as well and takes a lot of cooling to get the temp back down. You can improve this by adding oil volume. Enlarged sump, some people weld a bigger buldge in the sump to add several litres of oil. Oil cooler, fitting a sandwich plate between the oil pump and spin on filter will allow you to fit an external oil cooler, this both adds volume and cools the oil. Many sandwich plates have a bi-metal bypass valve which allows the oil to bypass the cooler when the oil temp is low and opens when the temp rises.

Ok here are some noob questions.....

1. where can I find the oil sensor?
2. where can I find the water temp sensor?

The laro I got had wires everywhere and non original, as we now have most of the electrics sorted I am at a miss to what the oil and water temp sensor is on the HOlden 186 engine.....yeah I know... should not go near it if I ask questions like this..... still I am stumped to which is what and oh... how to test it as my instruments show no activity....

Thanks

[1950landy]

165915 165916 A is oil light switch & B is temp temp switch

[akelly]

I've just been looking at putting an oil cooler on my SIIA 186. After measuring everything up and looking at the cost and size of the cooler that will fit without blocking the radiator I'm going to put on a sump with 'wings' to up the volume instead.

Thermo fan is the go if you're going to be doing off-road stuff because the holden fan with no shroud is basically useless under 60kph.

Cheers,

Adam

[scarry]

Revival of an old thread.

Back in the day when the 186,161,173,202 was common,we used to buy those water pumps for $9.00.[biggrin]

[Bigbjorn]

Revival of an old thread.

Back in the day when the 186,161,173,202 was common,we used to buy those water pumps for $9.00.[biggrin]

Sounds about right. My cook had a Mk.1 Escort(total crap car) which needed a water pump regularly and they cost $7. Then petrol was 4s3d per gallon. You could not fit more than $5 fuel into the Escort or my Torana.

[akelly]

as someone who's been working on red motors for close to 30yrs trying to find parts now is infuriating. $100+ for a glass bowl fuel pump repair kit? Please.

Don't even start me!

[ramblingboy42]

as someone who's been working on red motors for close to 30yrs trying to find parts now is infuriating. $100+ for a glass bowl fuel pump repair kit? Please.

Don't even start me!

...sounds like a home spun business could be the go.

all the Holden stuff is simple to repair /maintain.

[akelly]

the issue is the cost and availability of quality repair parts. Take a look what a VRS gasket set for a 186 costs these days. Or a rebuild kit for a stromberg carby. Sure you can do the repair easily, but what are the punters willing to pay? I doubt there's any money to be made. Exact same issue as series landies - imagine trying to sell one here for what the North American Overland guys charge?

Earlier this year I picked up a few glass bowl fuel pumps and rebuilt one of them, including nickel plating and yellow passivate so it looks brand new. Cost me probably $150 of materials and took a full day - you'd have to charge about $600 to even make it worth your time. Who would pay for that?

[itfarmer]

165915 165916 A is oil light switch & B is temp temp switch

Wow... I really appreciate that you took the engine out to show them to me.... that is truly above and beyond... most appreciated...

165955165956

As you can see I do not have one at the spot you mentioned.... I have a sensor above the manifold.... would that be the same?

[1950landy]

Wow... I really appreciate that you took the engine out to show them to me.... that is truly above and beyond... most appreciated...

165955165956

As you can see I do not have one at the spot you mentioned.... I have a sensor above the manifold.... would that be the same?
Haha Not my motor, just found them on the internet.