Puma Defender Air. Cond. Engine fan/ noise?

[Pickles2]

We've been on a few trips in our 90 recently & on occasions we've used the A/C.
All of our recent cars have had A/C, but there has been no appreciable increase in fan noise, all the time, when the engine/car is running etc. If the car has become hot in traffic etc, then you could hear the fan come on, but then after a while, as the traffic flow improved/ engine cooled down etc, the fan would switch itself off.
But the Defender fan seem to run far more frequently. It seems to come on pretty much all the time the A/C is on, & does not go off until the A/C is switched off.
I've been watching the temp guage on all of these occasions, & it never moves off the slightly under halfway position, so the engine temp is not changing,......so why does the fan come on? When is it supposed to come on, & when is it supposed to switch off?
Thanks, Pickles.

[Loubrey]

Pickles,

My needle never moves, but the Ultra Gauge shows fluctuations between 83 and 92 degrees all the time. My fan kicks in at 88 which is pretty much all the time when the ambient temps are hot enough to warrant the aircon, which is pretty often in WA!

I don't think there is much or anything in fact to worry about.

Might be worth investing in a Ultra Gauge as its a small investment for a lot of piece of mind. The plug just lives in the OBDII port under the steering wheel and there is many ways to mount the screen unobtrusively.

UltraGauge OBDII Scan tool & Information Center (http://www.ultra-gauge.com/ultragauge/)

Cheers,

Lou

[PAT303]

What fan are you talking about,the A/C fan or engine?.The A/C fan always runs when the A/C is on,the engine fan on mine can't be heard but I can feel it on hot days because the motor is sluggish to rev.I have a scan guage mounted on the steering column and mine goes to 96 degree's towing in Pilbara heat,88-90 around town normally. Pat

[Beery]

If you're talking about the electric fan then it really has nothing to do with engine cooling. Its purely there to cool the aircon condenser.

However I have heard that it also runs when the engine is getting towards dangerously high temperature. I'll repeat that this is just what ive "heard".

Otherwise it just works of a high-side pressure signal. When the pressure in the condenser is above a certain point, the fan will cut in to cool the condenser and bring the pressure down.
Things that cause high condenser pressure are high ambient temps. and high heat loads being absorbed from the cabin.

I've also noticed that it doesn't take much for the condenser fan to kick in on my 130.

Hope this makes sense to you?

Tom

[Pickles2]

If you're talking about the electric fan then it really has nothing to do with engine cooling. Its purely there to cool the aircon condenser.

However I have heard that it also runs when the engine is getting towards dangerously high temperature. I'll repeat that this is just what ive "heard".

Otherwise it just works of a high-side pressure signal. When the pressure in the condenser is above a certain point, the fan will cut in to cool the condenser and bring the pressure down.
Things that cause high condenser pressure are high ambient temps. and high heat loads being absorbed from the cabin.

I've also noticed that it doesn't take much for the condenser fan to kick in on my 130.

Hope this makes sense to you?

Tom
Yes, I think it does.
What you're saying is that the condenser fan in front of the radiator, visible behind the grill is on for most of the time when the A/C is on?
When I notice it, is maybe after a few ks and then you enter a town, & as you change gears, change down etc, you can hear more fan noise, signifying to me that the elec fan is on.
On other cars that I've owned, the "auxilliary" fan wasn't "connected" at all to the A/C system, ...it simply came on when the engine was over a certain temp, whether the A/C was on or not. As the fan on these engines was usually enough to cool the engine in almost all conditions, the elec fan hardly ever came on, which does not appear to be the case with the Defender.
Pickles.

[Beery]

You might actually be hearing the radiator fan by the sound of that. The condenser fan on the puma's is actually pretty quiet after listening to mine.

If you hear it roaring when you're going down the gears and changing pitch as the revs change then its the belt driven fan.

Coming into town and slowing down from highway speed where you've had the engine under load, you suddenly lose a lot of airflow through the radiator. The radiator is still getting rid of that highway heat and with less airflow, the air going through to the viscous fan hub will be hotter, causing it to lock up and drive the fan.

[ezyrama]

Its a thermatic fan that runs on a hi pressure switch to lower the discharge pressure on the air cond. It helps to cool the superheated vapour from the compressor and if it doesnt run you wont get the correct pressure drop into the evaporator for cooling effect. It will cycle on and off as required so its quite normal. If it doesnt run with the air cond then you have a problem, especially this time of year.
cheers Ian

[scarry]

Pickles,your other cars may have had one or two electric fans behind the radiator that run together and cycle to keep the coolant temps within parameters.They are often very quiet.
These fans also run when the A/C is on,and cycle on and off with the A/C thermostat,with an override to run if needed to keep coolant temps correct.

With the defender it has a large belt driven viscous fan behind the radiator that cycles to keep coolant temps correct.You can sometimes hear it cycling.It also has an electric fan in front of the condenser,that pushes air over the A/C condenser and then the radiator.This electric fan operates when the A/C is on.

[Loubrey]

Yes, I think it does.
What you're saying is that the condenser fan in front of the radiator, visible behind the grill is on for most of the time when the A/C is on?
When I notice it, is maybe after a few ks and then you enter a town, & as you change gears, change down etc, you can hear more fan noise, signifying to me that the elec fan is on.
On other cars that I've owned, the "auxilliary" fan wasn't "connected" at all to the A/C system, ...it simply came on when the engine was over a certain temp, whether the A/C was on or not. As the fan on these engines was usually enough to cool the engine in almost all conditions, the elec fan hardly ever came on, which does not appear to be the case with the Defender.
Pickles.

Pickles,

The big noisy fan in the front is the engine is just your radiator fan that has a set temperature to switch on. It's pretty noisy as the Defender's bonnet is hardly sound proof. It will cycle on and off randomly when the car is idling regardless if the aircon is on.

To my knowledge it has no direct link to the aircon and it is most probably coincidence of matching high ambient temperatures that "keeps it running" when the aircon is on.

Cheers,

Lou

[Longtimer]

Lou,

How do you get the fuel consumption, litres till empty, and Km till empty to read accurately? Mine will not give anything but an impossibly high fuel consumption, and at the moment I have -264 Km till empty and -64 litres till empty.....

It is a great tool, except for those alarms.


Cheers,

Phill.

[Loubrey]

Phil,

To be honest, I gave up on the fuel consumption... Same issues and I couldn't get it to work properly.

The readouts I have set if I remember correctly now:

I only wanted the 4 most critical readouts IMO - Engine temperature, intake temperature (surprisingly accurate on outside temperature), alternator output and boost.

Minimum you can have set though is 6 fields, so I have cab temperature (UG temp) and kilometres since last start as well, although those don't tell you much to be honest

Cheers,

Lou

[Lagerfan]

To be honest, I gave up on the fuel consumption... Same issues and I couldn't get it to work properly.

Had trouble too but once I followed the "calibration procedure" it all works pretty well. From memory:

1) reset everything to zero, there's a reset menu somewhere (this was the critical step I was missing at first)
2) on each fill-up enter the number of litres used and number of kms you've done
3) you're done, however to improve accuracy repeat from 2) on subsequent fill-ups (the more the better), the litres and kms are accumulative across the fills.
4) buried in a menu somewhere is the "calibration factor", note this down for future reference and you can just plug it in if you ever factory reset your Ultragauge (I recall it is about 0.7ish for a 2.2 puma)

[portafilter]

Phil,

To be honest, I gave up on the fuel consumption... Same issues and I couldn't get it to work properly.

The readouts I have set if I remember correctly now:

I only wanted the 4 most critical readouts IMO - Engine temperature, intake temperature (surprisingly accurate on outside temperature), alternator output and boost.

Minimum you can have set though is 6 fields, so I have cab temperature (UG temp) and kilometres since last start as well, although those don't tell you much to be honest

Cheers,

Lou

just a FYI. i used to have a 2.4 and had no luck with the fuel usage, it was never accurate no matter what i did. i now have a 2.2 with a level sender that the scangauge can read. if i fill the tank to one click on the pump nozzle i can do about 100 kms on the highway before the gauge reads less that 73litres. so i guess one click is about 13 ltrs over 73 ltrs??

[Longtimer]

G'Day Gents,

I made some adjustments to the settings the other day, and now it fails to reset when I fill up...... Bloody thing....

I am now thinking of turning of ALL alarms except the temp alarm.


Thanks gents. There have been a few days that I thought mine must be broken.... :-)


Cheers,

Phill.

[Beery]

Whats any of this got to do with Pickles' question about fan noise?

[Pickles2]

Whats any of this got to do with Pickles' question about fan noise?
I was wondering about that myself!
But thanks for your info & input.
I was worrried that the elec fan was on more than it should be
,but from what has been posted up, that does not appear to be the case.
Do you think that when the elec fan is running, that that would make the engine fan more noisy because of the additional amount of air being pushed through it by the elec fan?
Thanks again, Pickles.

[Beery]

I was wondering about that myself!
But thanks for your info & input.
I was worrried that the elec fan was on more than it should be
,but from what has been posted up, that does not appear to be the case.
Do you think that when the elec fan is running, that that would make the engine fan more noisy because of the additional amount of air being pushed through it by the elec fan?
Thanks again, Pickles.

I dont it would make the engine fan any noisier. I ran mine in the driveway yesterday to watch what the condenser fan was doing. It was actually cycling on/off at fairly short intervals i.e. on for about 3-5secs, off for about 20 secs. This was mainly to do with fairly low ambient temp. and would roughly match the compressor cycling.
You really have to be right in front of the vehicle to hear the fan. Unless you have bionic hearing of some sort!

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using AULRO mobile app

[Loubrey]

Conversation went off on a tangent after I suggested Pickles invest in a Ultra Gauge... :D

I know you like the "factory look" with no extras, but as I mentioned before it can be mounted very discreetly and removed in a few seconds. Certainly gives you piece of mind about a number of critical indicators (including engine temperature) that the original Defender gauges are a bit slow in picking up.

Cheers,

Lou

[Beery]

I dont it would make the engine fan any noisier. I ran mine in the driveway yesterday to watch what the condenser fan was doing. It was actually cycling on/off at fairly short intervals i.e. on for about 3-5secs, off for about 20 secs. This was mainly to do with fairly low ambient temp. and would roughly match the compressor cycling.
You really have to be right in front of the vehicle to hear the fan. Unless you have bionic hearing of some sort!

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using AULRO mobile app


I forgot to add, that, as the aircon condenser is dumping extra heat into the airflow coming through to the viscous fan clutch, it would cause the clutch to lock up sooner and stay engaged for longer...so yes, having the aircon running would make the engine fan seem more noisy because you would hear it working more often.
But its due to the extra heat, not the extra airflow.

Tom

[Pickles2]

I forgot to add, that, as the aircon condenser is dumping extra heat into the airflow coming through to the viscous fan clutch, it would cause the clutch to lock up sooner and stay engaged for longer...so yes, having the aircon running would make the engine fan seem more noisy because you would hear it working more often.
But its due to the extra heat, not the extra airflow.

Tom
Thanks Tom, I reckon that is exactly what is happening.
Pickles.