What to buy a 300tdi or a Toyota?

[cafe latte]

Probably a loaded question on this forum, but why should I buy a Land Rover?
I always wanted one but I bought a series petrol for the farm and was cured at least for the time being of Landrveritis. I swapped the motor for a 2.25 diesel and I am a lot happier at least it does not stall in a puddle. All the same I am posting here for some unknown reason and I am still looking at Land Rovers, I must be mad!!
I have a very reliable Nissan, F truck (F100 with a Perkins diesel) and a couple of older Toyotas. am starting to travel a bit with a caravan as I am in the North QLD team FTR (shooting) so I need a tow 4x4.
Non of my 4x4's have a turbo so travelling is slowwwwwww!!.
I have a few ideas a, one is a newer Toyota v8 diesel but that used is 35 grand and I hate spending on cars. Option 2 is keep the Nissan and sell the older Hj60 Toyota slooowww.. and get a 300tdi Land Rover, and use the Nissan or the get a newer Land Rover and use the Nissan as a second 4x4. I have rebuilt most of my engines tractors, even a dozer, so I can fix stuff myself but I dont want a heap of trouble either. I am thinking the 300 tdi for me as I can fix it but I am used to Toyota too and as much as I am able I dont want to spend my spare time under the darn thing.
Ok I could spend a heap on a newish car or I get a good older car like a 300tdi or something else. What do you think?
I need a tough 4x4 as I am on 600 acres in the tropic and in the wet it is big time mud.
What to do??
Thanks everyone
Chris

[Mick_Marsh]

Chris, with a username like that, I woud suggest a Discovery 4 is your only choice.
Might be a little out of your budget though.

Oh, welcome to the forum.

[DasLandRoverMan]

Cummins powered 101 for sale in SA, now that would be the thing for towing with...

[Robmacca]

If u want to tow, I'm not sure if the Tdi300 would be any faster than your old 60series.... it would however be A LOT more comfy though...

There's not a lot of choices these days if u want to stay away from computer controlled Diesel 4WD's....

What about a Defender 110? TD5 or Tdi ??

or the last of the TD5 Discoveries ??

[cafe latte]

Chris, with a username like that, I woud suggest a Discovery 4 is your only choice.
Might be a little out of your budget though.

Oh, welcome to the forum.

:D Thanks. Actually cafe latte was chosen a long time ago for another forum I post on (hifi related). I was trying to decide what to call myself on the forum when a cow the missus called Cafe latte due to its color mooed at me through the window. My missus is Italian so they all have daft Italian names (the breeders anyway). I prefer my coffee a lot stronger :)
Discos are a bit small in the back really, especially for going to shoots with as I take quite a lot of stuff.
Chris

[eeyore]

What about an earlier Isuzu-powered 110 - either civilian or ex-army Perentie - plus a turbo? (eg Kinugawa Turbocharger TD04HL 19T With Isuzu 4BD1 Turbo Manifold in Doncaster, VIC | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Kinugawa-Turbocharger-TD04HL-19T-with-Isuzu-4BD1-Turbo-Manifold/171712051395?_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1% 26asc%3D29393%26meid%3D8e6551dfaa4943bcbcd02b9ae9d 4f569%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D300 901581404)

The 4BD1 Isuzu is near indestructible, needs little maintenance and with a turbo, has massive torque for towing. The pre-Defender 110s have stronger drivetrains, Perenties with galavanised chassis'. Downside is the Isuzus are much noisier than the 200/300 tdi's, obviously worse still with a soft top Perentie (which most are). Soft top brings other issues too, although I'm sure someone on the forum has fitted a ute cab to his Perentie which would mitigate some of the drawbacks (eg noise, comfort, security).

[Vern]

Get a perentie, bang a Turbo and power steer box on and your set, it'll then do anything and go anywhere you want. 300tdi won't pull the foreskin off a leper when it comes to towing.

[rangieman]

Get a perentie, bang a Turbo and power steer box on and your set, it'll then do anything and go anywhere you want. 300tdi won't pull the foreskin off a leper when it comes to towing.

You have a way with words Damien:Rolling::Rolling: but so true;)

[simmo]

Thems fighting words Vern, :eek:

Tdi will tow Ok, on the flat , but hilly country will show its weakness. But fit a VNT turbo for about 2 K and it will be OK, especially if the tow is not very heavy. I towed a heavy trailer with a series on it comfortably.

Then there's the 5th gear issue of the R380:wasntme:

In my case when i fit the LT230 Q I'll use 4th gear if the going is tough.

cheers simmo

[cafe latte]

Hmm a few ideas I had not thought of.. I like the Isuzu-powered 110 idea but my thought is most will be getting on in years and be getting tatty by now. My HJ60 is the same, still good but very dated and tired, my thoughts are the Isuzu 100's will be the same. I have not seen one so I might be wrong though.
Power wise I googled the numbers for the Nissan and the 300tdi and the Kw's and torque are about the same so I see the issues the Landy might have towing. All the same I wonder if the Landy's turbo might help it hand on in a gear a bit longer?
Also one issue known with the Nissan is a rather small radiator. I put the biggest I could find in mine and it still gets warm on the hills towing a caravan, how are the 300tdi's in this respect?
Thanks everyone
Chris

[PAT303]

The vehicle you want doesn't exist,there is no 20 year old 4wd that's reliable,tows with plenty of power,cheap to buy,cheap to run and never needs repair,sell all the junk you have now and buy one late model well maintained vehicle of your choice. Pat

[RVR110]

If you have to ask, then buy a :censored:

[cafe latte]

The vehicle you want doesn't exist,there is no 20 year old 4wd that's reliable,tows with plenty of power,cheap to buy,cheap to run and never needs repair,sell all the junk you have now and buy one late model well maintained vehicle of your choice. Pat

Yes there is, a hj60 turbo does all these things and more, but I dont want one I need more space in the back which is why I though about a Defender.
Chris

[cafe latte]

Hmm I am going to look at a late model (2010) early next week, I am not a new car person, but it does look nice how are the engines on the newer Land Rovers?
Chris

[bsperka]

Hmm I am going to look at a late model (2010) early next week, I am not a new car person, but it does look nice how are the engines on the newer Land Rovers?
Chris

I don't want to drive a newer model because I'll want one even more. Power, economy and quiet. Btw: Love your comment on a Hj 60 - keep up the humour.

[cafe latte]

I don't want to drive a newer model because I'll want one even more. Power, economy and quiet. Btw: Love your comment on a Hj 60 - keep up the humour.

:) I was having a bit of fun, but the hj60 turbo was a great car, powerful and reliable and also cheap , but now they are all getting very long in the tooth, most will be over 450,000km at least, many much more, and they were also very dated. Older Landies ie the 300tdi dated far better IMO (looks wise), but performance was the problem, from what I am reading the 300 tdi is only 83kw, which is really not much. The issue for me is space though and even if I could unearth a really late model hj60 turbo in mint condition it would be too small for what I need. All the same they have 100kw or power and they had 315nm of torque so they could tow easily, they are reliable and cheap, but if I cant fit my gear in they are no good, but there are 20 odd year old cars that tick the boxes just not mine as I have different needs.
Chris

[DasLandRoverMan]

I refer to my earlier post, adding it's advertising is informal.


Cummins powered 101 for sale in SA, now that would be the thing for towing with...

how about a link too?
Clicky (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/101-forward-controls-variations/178791-sitecs-101-a.html)

All you could want for in a Land Rover, for towing or anything g else.

[cafe latte]

I refer to my earlier post, adding it's advertising is informal.



how about a link too?
Clicky (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/101-forward-controls-variations/178791-sitecs-101-a.html)

All you could want for in a Land Rover, for towing or anything g else.

I cant see myself towing a caravan with a 101!!
They are a great truck and I would love one on the farm, but comfort for 300km with a van on the back I dont think so.
Chris

[Mick_Marsh]

I cant see myself towing a caravan with a 101!!
They are a great truck and I would love one on the farm, but comfort for 300km with a van on the back I dont think so.
Chris
Got to say others here think they tow real well.
http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j443/Bacicat2000/30507A65-8E1F-4C85-915F-062A5E4A7D40-4655-00000A8D03723D93_zpsa1abb476.jpg (http://s1086.photobucket.com/user/Bacicat2000/media/30507A65-8E1F-4C85-915F-062A5E4A7D40-4655-00000A8D03723D93_zpsa1abb476.jpg.html)
We are told a 300km trip was not a problem.


This is what I bought about a year ago to do my heavy towing.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/05/150.jpg (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/mick_marsh_AULRO/media/50-714/DSC_4396.jpg.html)

[PAT303]

Depends also on where you want to go,you could not take either the 101 or 6x6 over many of the inland tracks or in the high country for example for the simple reason they are too large,going from a 20 year old worn out 60 series to a 20 year old worn out Tdi makes no sense,clean the moths out of your wallet and buy a modern dual cab. Pat

[Mick_Marsh]

Depends also on where you want to go,you could not take either the 101 or 6x6 over many of the inland tracks or in the high country for example for the simple reason they are too large,going from a 20 year old worn out 60 series to a 20 year old worn out Tdi makes no sense,clean the moths out of your wallet and buy a modern dual cab. Pat
I'm tipping where you can't take a 101 or a 6x6 you can't take a van either.

[cafe latte]

The 101 is super cool, but they are going to be rare in north Queensland and I imagine they are going to be quite dated and rough and ready too (I dont know I have never seen one inside). I want a 4x4 which is reasonably comfortable for day to day use and can step up to the job in hand when I need it to.
Chris

[DasLandRoverMan]

I used to use my old one every day, the rebuild project will be too once it's done...

I doubt I'm the only one either.

[cafe latte]

I used to use my old one every day, the rebuild project will be too once it's done...

I doubt I'm the only one either.

Out of curiosity any inside and outside pics?
I am going to have a look at a 2010 defender 76,000km tomorrow but it is far too expensive so he would have to come down a lot and to be honest I am not sure it is what I want, but a look wont hurt. It is a dealer and he wants $39,990 and he said on the phone that there has been lots of interest since it was reduced from $46,000!!! I said , but they are $47,500 new which he actually denied!!!!! Anyway at least I can see how it feels behind the wheel, anyone any thoughts on the correct price for a Landy in good condition of that year?
Cheers
Chris

[DasLandRoverMan]

Couple of pictures of one here: Clicky (http://bringatrailer.com/2012/09/22/no-curves-1976-land-rover-101-forward-control/)

There's also Simons thread about his truck; Clicky (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/101-forward-controls-variations/178791-sitecs-101-a.html)

Cheaper than a Defender from a dealer at $30k to boot.

[gusthedog]

Buy a disco 2 or 3 and tow a trailer. You'll be comfortable and flexible in terms of layout. Seeing as they drop quicker in depreciation you can get a newer/better one compared to the alu shoe box :wasntme:

[cafe latte]

Buy a disco 2 or 3 and tow a trailer. You'll be comfortable and flexible in terms of layout. Seeing as they drop quicker in depreciation you can get a newer/better one compared to the alu shoe box :wasntme:

I do like Disco's my friend has a 2, but the load area is small. The problem is I shoot F class in comps and F class rifles have 32 inch barrels so the gun is rather long. I need to fit 2 guns in a box in the loading area (boot) and other stuff like shooting stands, bags etc. Then there is other camping stuff like a fridge. The dog will be on the back seat and the rest can go in the caravan. With a Disco I dont think I will get all I need in the back which is a pity as used Discos are much cheaper than Defenders and more comfortable for sure.
Chris

[cafe latte]

Couple of pictures of one here: Clicky (http://bringatrailer.com/2012/09/22/no-curves-1976-land-rover-101-forward-control/)

There's also Simons thread about his truck; Clicky (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/101-forward-controls-variations/178791-sitecs-101-a.html)

Cheaper than a Defender from a dealer at $30k to boot.

Thanks for the links the 101 is interesting but too slow I feel for long range touring.
Regards
Chris

[cafe latte]

Anyone know what is a fair price for a 2010 good condition lowish km Defender?
Chris

[cafe latte]

I went today for a test drive... I am wondering if there was a problem as it was like driving with the handbrake on, no kidding. It had less go than my 60 series there must have been an issue with it IMO. My missus was totally not impressed and she was not happy with the seats much either but it was not deal breaker unhappy. I actually liked the seats as I have two stuffed discs and the upright seating position I found really comfortable. Power was my issue, I wonder if the 2,4l Puma had fuel pressure issues or something, it is not possible something is so gutless that is 90kw. I went to the Landy dealer and asked him to ring me when a 110 comes in as I want a test drive. My missus liked the Disco :( which is a nice truck but not what I want).
I also tried the Toyota wagon 70 series which has heaps of grunt, is great, but it is also 20k more expensive than a new Landy. More confused than I was three days ago!! The Defender has aircon and electric windows as standard and is great inside. The toyota you almost pay for the air in the truck, but hats off it is a really good 4x4.
Right now I am thinking an older good 300tdi or a td5 and maybe a toyota as the newer tow truck very confused..
Any thoughts??
Chris

[DasLandRoverMan]

A remap, EGR delete and some other tuning brings them to life some, but its still a fairly small engine for what its pulling.

[tact]

I have a 2013 110 dual cab pickup. The 2.2l engine. Its not at all sluggish as a performer. Must be something wrong with the 2.4 you drove.

[isuzurover]

I went today for a test drive... I am wondering if there was a problem as it was like driving with the handbrake on, no kidding. It had less go than my 60 series there must have been an issue with it IMO. My missus was totally not impressed and she was not happy with the seats much either but it was not deal breaker unhappy. I actually liked the seats as I have two stuffed discs and the upright seating position I found really comfortable. Power was my issue, I wonder if the 2,4l Puma had fuel pressure issues or something, it is not possible something is so gutless that is 90kw. I went to the Landy dealer and asked him to ring me when a 110 comes in as I want a test drive. My missus liked the Disco :( which is a nice truck but not what I want).
I also tried the Toyota wagon 70 series which has heaps of grunt, is great, ...


Are you talking about low down or top end?
These little modern diesels are a bit doughy down low but get up and go when you put the boot in.
Test drive a 3L prado and compare it to the 79 series 4.5. Big difference low down, but with the extra gear the prado is probably better on the highway.
Just the same as the isuzu has much more bottom end torque than any of the 2.5/2.4/2.2 engines which followed thanks to its displacement and rotating mass.

Which breed of cow?

[donh54]

I do like Disco's my friend has a 2, but the load area is small. The problem is I shoot F class in comps and F class rifles have 32 inch barrels so the gun is rather long. I need to fit 2 guns in a box in the loading area (boot) and other stuff like shooting stands, bags etc. Then there is other camping stuff like a fridge. The dog will be on the back seat and the rest can go in the caravan. With a Disco I dont think I will get all I need in the back which is a pity as used Discos are much cheaper than Defenders and more comfortable for sure.
Chris

They do have split rear seats - leave one up for the dog, fridge behind it, guns where the other seat was. Problem solvered :p

Sent from my HTC One XL using AULRO mobile app

[cafe latte]

Are you talking about low down or top end?
These little modern diesels are a bit doughy down low but get up and go when you put the boot in.
Test drive a 3L prado and compare it to the 79 series 4.5. Big difference low down, but with the extra gear the prado is probably better on the highway.
Just the same as the isuzu has much more bottom end torque than any of the 2.5/2.4/2.2 engines which followed thanks to its displacement and rotating mass.

Which breed of cow?

It was just driving around Cairns so town driving but very little traffic. I would put my foot down when the lights changed and nothing really happened it took ages to wind up it seemed to just have no go, something must have been wrong...
Re the cows we are a Droughtmaster stud.
Chris

[Tomo]

What about one of the last of the 4.2L Troop carriers 2006 ish. Strong vehicles, solid axles, no common rail fuel system issues, plenty of length and space. The RV models had the forward facing rear bench. If you can find one of the factory turbo models even better!!!

[cafe latte]

What about one of the last of the 4.2L Troop carriers 2006 ish. Strong vehicles, solid axles, no common rail fuel system issues, plenty of length and space. The RV models had the forward facing rear bench. If you can find one of the factory turbo models even better!!!
Thanks I will have a look. I have just been googling Disco and there really are some nice bargains. Low km td5's some with leather go for next to nothing. I did not really want a Disco though, are they going to be as good off road? I have two ways i can go at this point, one is to spend a bit on my Nissan (1991) td42 and put a turbo on it, I actually bought the 91 model in the first place so I could fit a turbo (later models dont like after market turbo's), then I have my tow truck. If I do this,then the missus is out of the equation and I go and get a 110 or even better a 130 td5 or even a 300td1 for my daily truck. I have a farm and some rentals so I have tool boxes so this would be one possibility. Otherwise I get a cheap low km Disco and put the seats down in the Nissan and use that for my gear. Old probably boring Land Rover Question for you guys, Older td5 Disco or Defender, and why? I still have a test drive booked for the new Defender, but I am just not convinced, I like it but that money it is going to be the' family' truck and the missus is not fussed..
Thanks again for all the help
Chris

[PAT303]

No 4wd will take your rifles in the back,they are too long,buy a disco and fold one of the rear seats down,they are comfortable and cheap to buy and run,turboing a non turbo engine like your nissan can lead to nightmares. Pat Pat

[cafe latte]

No 4wd will take your rifles in the back,they are too long,buy a disco and fold one of the rear seats down,they are comfortable and cheap to buy and run,turboing a non turbo engine like your nissan can lead to nightmares. Pat Pat

A 130 will fit rifles and a Nissan td42 pre 1992 has no issues with a turbo. Fit a turbo to a later say 1994 and you are in for trouble. People use massive boost on early Nissan's with no issues, but I would only be looking for a little bit of boost for the hills. 4-5 pounds is enough to make a difference, normal is 12, but guys do 30 with no issues.
All this said I am curious of the Disco's as they are cheap, cheap enough to find a solution for my rifles so they are big time on my radar right now. I need apart the F truck which is a heap of junk for carting hay two 4x4's, one good one and another one. Question is one a Nissan and the other a Defender or do I bite the bullet and try a disco? Is the disco good off road and how tough?
Chris

[frantic]

Up to 2002 the defender 110/130 had the Salisbury rear axle which is stronger than the p38 they replaced it with from 2003. With the Salisbury you can get hytuff-qld axles and a Detroit locker, and it works well.
The ADF landies, go have a read, but a lot where rebuilt after 10-12 years so your really getting a 1988-91 but with low mileag, less than a 2003 troopie. The option there is put on a turbo, wagon body, power steering. And a lot of soundproofing. This would satisfy all your requirements, ultra reliable engine easy to work on, space, good offroad. Maybe look at a red dot roof.mounted air.con unit. A few on here have one and reckon they are good.

[Vern]

No 4wd will take your rifles in the back,they are too long,buy a disco and fold one of the rear seats down,they are comfortable and cheap to buy and run,turboing a non turbo engine like your nissan can lead to nightmares. Pat Pat

Hope none of the Isuzu guys read that!:mad::D

[donh54]

Given equal driver abilities, a disco is almost on a par with the defender, off-road.
I am fully equipped with my flameproof undies for the responses from the deefer brigade! :D:D:D

Sent from my HTC One XL using AULRO mobile app

[gusthedog]

What donh54 said :)

I have a rhino roof pod on my D2 when I go away with the kids and dog. More room than a deefer and comfy. Have your cake and eat it too. You could get a cannon in the roof pod if you could lift it that high :D

[cafe latte]

Hmm lots to think about, part of me wants a 110, actually I always wanted one which is why I am so torn, but the disco is tempting at the prices I am seeing. Now another question, a lot of the disco's I am seeing (2001-2003) are automatics. I am not that fond of auto's, but I was wondering if the auto in the disco's of this age are any good?
Cheers
Chris

[gusthedog]

Hmm lots to think about, part of me wants a 110, actually I always wanted one which is why I am so torn, but the disco is tempting at the prices I am seeing. Now another question, a lot of the disco's I am seeing (2001-2003) are automatics. I am not that fond of auto's, but I was wondering if the auto in the disco's of this age are any good?
Cheers
Chris

Autos are fine. I have one :) Much better off road as you can't stall and much better control at low speed. Traction control is awesome. Ride the brake when wheels are spinning to transfer drive to other wheels. Cheap man's diff lock :p. In low you hit the mode button on the auto and it becomes a manual with engine braking! Avoid a late 2000 or early 2001 if they don't have the CDL internals. Search CDL on the forum if that doesn't make sense.

Some have had to have rebuilds done around 250k. Probably something to think about.

I always wanted a 110 too and have had a couple as well. Then I got middle aged, fat and lazy. Now I'd never own another because I enjoy a comfortable, dust free and dry ride more. ;)

[cafe latte]

Autos are fine. I have one :) Much better off road as you can't stall and much better control at low speed. Traction control is awesome. Ride the brake when wheels are spinning to transfer drive to other wheels. Cheap man's diff lock :p. In low you hit the mode button on the auto and it becomes a manual with engine braking! Avoid a late 2000 or early 2001 if they don't have the CDL internals. Search CDL on the forum if that doesn't make sense.

Some have had to have rebuilds done around 250k. Probably something to think about.

I always wanted a 110 too and have had a couple as well. Then I got middle aged, fat and lazy. Now I'd never own another because I enjoy a comfortable, dust free and dry ride more. ;)

Is it the 2000 and 2001 that have had rebuilds done or is that any year? Also do you mean gearbox rebuilds?
Cheers
Chris

[gusthedog]

Supposedly any year D2. And yes, auto gearbox rebuilds.

Info on auto rebuilds
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/202555-transmission-rebuild.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/108086-disco-2-gearbox-replacement.html
Here is some info on CDL
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/39956-cdl-d2s.html

[cafe latte]

Supposedly any year D2. And yes, auto gearbox rebuilds.

Info on auto rebuilds
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/202555-transmission-rebuild.html
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/108086-disco-2-gearbox-replacement.html
Here is some info on CDL
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/39956-cdl-d2s.html

Hmm, what about manual gearboxes, are the reliable?
Chris

[gusthedog]

I believe so. But 1st gear is pretty tall so hill starts whilst towing can be interesting.

There is no perfect vehicle though and nothing will tick all boxes. Gotta compromise sometimes.

[frantic]

One of the things disco owners do if going to bigger tyres is use the final transfer ratio from a defender , I think it's 1.2 standard disco compared to 1.4 defender. Other options are diff ratio changes, 3.54 standard, 4.11 or lower for 33in plus tyres from ashcroft in uk or GBR in Utah . These could also help with towing heavy loads

[PAT303]

Given equal driver abilities, a disco is almost on a par with the defender, off-road.
I am fully equipped with my flameproof undies for the responses from the deefer brigade! :D:D:D

Sent from my HTC One XL using AULRO mobile app

Nope,a D1 is better than a 110,had both,disco wins. Pat

[PAT303]

Hope none of the Isuzu guys read that!:mad::D

Too many late nights in mates sheds will convince me otherwise,if you want a T/D,buy a T/D :p. Pat

[PAT303]

Hmm, what about manual gearboxes, are the reliable?
Chris

Your looking at 15 year old vehicles,you'll need to spend money on them. Pat

[cafe latte]

Your looking at 15 year old vehicles,you'll need to spend money on them. Pat

Why if it is a good one, I have a Nissan Patrol that has done 360,000km, I have done 30,000km since I bought it and apart tyres I have spent almost nothing. My Toyota 60 series has done over 660,000km's and basically I just keep changing the tyres when needed and changing the oil and it is 1984. Problem it is gutless and useless for towing so it has to go.
What do I need to check for (issues) with a used disco?
Cheers
Chris

[cafe latte]

Nope,a D1 is better than a 110,had both,disco wins. Pat
Interesting reply, Why do you think this?
Chris

[PAT303]

Why if it is a good one, I have a Nissan Patrol that has done 360,000km, I have done 30,000km since I bought it and apart tyres I have spent almost nothing. My Toyota 60 series has done over 660,000km's and basically I just keep changing the tyres when needed and changing the oil and it is 1984. Problem it is gutless and useless for towing so it has to go.
What do I need to check for (issues) with a used disco?
Cheers
Chris

Because parts wear out,my Tdi is 17 and never garaged so things like the door rubbers have cracked and gone hard,if I bought another I would do a major service on it and change all the consumables that way I know what I have. Pat

[PAT303]

Interesting reply, Why do you think this?
Chris

Don't think it,know it.The D1 and RRC keep their wheels on the ground better than the defender and the defender will sit on it's belly long before they will,if I didn't have my pair of defenders I would have a pair of '96 onwards D1 Tdi's,one auto,one manual and both with VNT's. Pat

[cafe latte]

Don't think it,know it.The D1 and RRC keep their wheels on the ground better than the defender and the defender will sit on it's belly long before they will,if I didn't have my pair of defenders I would have a pair of '96 onwards D1 Tdi's,one auto,one manual and both with VNT's. Pat
Ok what about a D2
Chris

[isuzurover]

Ok what about a D2
Chris

Just ignore pat. The rest of us have learnt to. The D1 and 110 have almost identical suspension, so both have good wheel travel offroad. IME the extra wheelbase of the 110 is an advantage offroad and a huge advantage when towing.

The D2 has a different rear suspension system which uses radius arms and a watts link. It works ok offroad but doesn't have as much potential as the 110/D1 system.

[cafe latte]

Just ignore pat. The rest of us have learnt to. The D1 and 110 have almost identical suspension, so both have good wheel travel offroad. IME the extra wheelbase of the 110 is an advantage offroad and a huge advantage when towing.

The D2 has a different rear suspension system which uses radius arms and a watts link. It works ok offroad but doesn't have as much potential as the 110/D1 system.

Hmm I need to do some thinking. I am taking the caravan away on Wednesday with the Nissan and I will see how I go (knowing the power of the Nissan). It will be the longest trip I have done so it will interesting re comfort. I want to see how my back holds up, and then I will make a decision, either turbo the Nissan and get a 130 defender for myself or go the Disco..
Not sure what to do..
Chris

[steane]

Just ignore pat. The rest of us have learnt to.

I quite enjoy Pat's contributions ;)

[PAT303]

Just ignore pat. The rest of us have learnt to. The D1 and 110 have almost identical suspension, so both have good wheel travel offroad. IME the extra wheelbase of the 110 is an advantage offroad and a huge advantage when towing.

The D2 has a different rear suspension system which uses radius arms and a watts link. It works ok offroad but doesn't have as much potential as the 110/D1 system.

They don't have identical suspension,the defenders is stiffer,they have lower ramp over angle,a diff that thinks it's a plough,both of those things hurt it,the only thing you got right is the towing.Thanks for ignoring me also,the feelings very mutual ;). Pat

[PAT303]

Hmm I need to do some thinking. I am taking the caravan away on Wednesday with the Nissan and I will see how I go (knowing the power of the Nissan). It will be the longest trip I have done so it will interesting re comfort. I want to see how my back holds up, and then I will make a decision, either turbo the Nissan and get a 130 defender for myself or go the Disco..
Not sure what to do..
Chris

I'd buy a nice Disco with EAS if I was you,stable,comfortable,easy on fuel,fold one seat down to fit your rifles and off you go,whats not to like. Pat

[cafe latte]

I will report back when I get back and let you guys know how I got on, it will be over a week from Wednesday.
Chris

[cafe latte]

ok i did 630km today in the Nissan (86Kw when new at least, not sure it is that now). I was mostly good, but some sections with the caravan on long gentle hills were a bit annoying. Most of the day I drove at 90-95, but the slightest hill I was down to 80km/h. All in all though I am impressed. My initial thoughts tonight are get a Defender I always wanted one.. I am thinking to get a good td5 and turbo the Nissan or even a 300tdi as it will be just my car. The missus is trying to convince me to get a new Puma Defender so we can tow if we want to, but I have never had a new car in my life and honestly I am not sure I want one. I have rebuilt everything from a small Fiat engine to a 26 tonne Cat dozer so I like the idea of a fixable 4x4. What to do?? I want a Landy and I admit to myself I love the Defender, do I search out a minty older one (if so which one) or go new?
Cheers
Chris

[EastFreo]

Go the defender and old or new you won't be disappointed. I have a new Puma and I love every minute of driving it. But I still love driving Dad's 300tdi as well.

[steane]

Reads to me like you want a Defender pretty badly so I suspect if you buy a Disco you'll still really be wanting a Defender.

The problem that you will have is finding a good one. Like Pat said, you'll be buying a 15 to 21 year old machine and if they aren't looked after they are really just a pile of trouble created by previous owners.

Find a good one and I suspect you'll be a happy chappy because they are a lot of fun to own.

Let the search begin?

[gusthedog]

Reads to me like you want a Defender pretty badly so I suspect if you buy a Disco you'll still really be wanting a Defender.

Reads to me like you can't make a decision :D. 7 pages of advice and still can't work out what you want?:wasntme:

Write a list over your next latte. Buy the one with the most positives. ;)

[DiscoMick]

ok i did 630km today in the Nissan (86Kw when new at least, not sure it is that now). I was mostly good, but some sections with the caravan on long gentle hills were a bit annoying. Most of the day I drove at 90-95, but the slightest hill I was down to 80km/h. All in all though I am impressed. My initial thoughts tonight are get a Defender I always wanted one.. I am thinking to get a good td5 and turbo the Nissan or even a 300tdi as it will be just my car. The missus is trying to convince me to get a new Puma Defender so we can tow if we want to, but I have never had a new car in my life and honestly I am not sure I want one. I have rebuilt everything from a small Fiat engine to a 26 tonne Cat dozer so I like the idea of a fixable 4x4. What to do?? I want a Landy and I admit to myself I love the Defender, do I search out a minty older one (if so which one) or go new?
Cheers
Chris

I used to have a 1995 D1 300Tdi auto and now have a Defender 2.4 Puma six-speed manual. Both towed a campervan whch can weigh 1200kilos when fully loaded. The 30Tdi did the job and the auto was good, but needed more than four gears. You had to be happy to travel at 90-100ks when towing and be a bit slow up some hills. Rear space was quite limited. Mechanics found the 300Tdi easy to work on. The fuel pump was adjusted to improve acceleration, but not far enough to cause over-fuelling. My standard brass radiator lasted 15 years before being replaced. It used around 10-11 l/100 kms.
The Puma has heaps of rear space, six manual gears and the 2.4 has a lot of torque. It definitely tows the camper easier than the 300 Tdi and hills are not a problem. The cooling system seems very capable. It is using about 9.5 l/100km with a Steinbauer chip.
My BIL has an 80 series with the 4.2 lump which is using 16 l/100km. It is crude and thirsty, but does the job.
Hope that helps your decision.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[tact]

Do what the wife suggests. Buy a new puma 2.2.

Happy wife, happy life

[MrLandy]

Seems to me that you want a Defender and always have, you're concerned about money and how it would look to your mates if you rocked up in a new Defender. You say you don't like spending money on cars, so why do you have so many? They are all a money pit no doubt.

You've got an old Nissan that does the job, so why look at an old Toyota or an old Defender? They will just do the same thing. You could get a V8 Toyota "for towing" - good idea if you want to pay too much and use twice as much fuel, be less comfortable and have a less capable vehicle..

It's pretty clear you should get a new Defender. The repayments are probably the same or less than maintaining your old vehicles, once you get it dirty it won't look flash, you're nissan / toyota mates will be totally envious and you will have the vehicle you've always wanted. Man up, time to get the new Defender. Or just keep your Nissan.

[MrLandy]

Ps...what bloke here would ignore the wisdom of their wife saying she wants you to get a new Defender??

[cafe latte]

Sorry I went missing for a bit, when I got back from the shoot there was loads to do an the farm, I have been thinking a bit too..
I want a Defender not a Disco I have always wanted one so you guys are right I am just not going to be happy with a Disco. Yes I do have quite a few cars, but the big F truck is a heap of junk (apart rebuilt motor and gearbox), but nothing else can haul the amount of hay when the dry comes. As long as the local Police does not see me do it :angel: Anyway basically the F truck is just used locally for hauling big loads. The Nissan I what I am using right now and the missus is using the 60 series and the 60 is what is going to go. The missus likes the Nissan and especially likes the very cold aircon so that will be staying. The new car with get towing duties and will be what I drive day to day, I have a few rental properties as well as the farm so I need a car with loads of room in the back for my tools when things go wrong with the rentals. Whatever I buy it wont be on finance, I have the money for a new car, I would never borrow to buy anything, but spending money on a new car is almost enough to give me nightmares :eek:
If it was just up to me after all this great advice I would be getting a 300tdi or a td5, the missus is banging on though about getting a new one grumble grumble moan moan... My personal thoughts would be to wait and try and get a low km td5 , I actually saw a 300tdi in a car park and it was really mint so really good older Landies do exist, try and tell my missus though...
My worry re a new one is how good is the Puma motor as I read a few horror stories about them. Also I read the transmission (or transfer I cant remember which) was not as strong. What are the Puma's weaknesses?
The other worry re new is home maintenance.
With 300 tdi and TD5 what is the km's that a well serviced car will have issues, ie is there known issues that crop up I should consider that might bite me on the butt at certain kms?
At least I know it will be a defender, just which one..
Chris

[bee utey]

With 300 tdi and TD5 what is the km's that a well serviced car will have issues, ie is there known issues that crop up I should consider that might bite me on the butt at certain kms?


You should know there's a wide range of usage patterns that wear out a vehicle way sooner for some compared to others. Maintenance is only part of the equation, the amount of heavy work is the key. If you get a good running 300TDi at say 300 000km for example, I'd suggest fitting a brand new head, new timing belt kit, hoses, water pump and "P" gasket, new serpentine belt and tensioner, upgraded intercooler and recored radiator. Possibly even a new clutch if there's any sign of oil at the rear of the engine. Keep the old bits in the shed for spares. Then you'll have a reliable vehicle with reasonable performance that's easy to fix at home with only simple tools. Spend the money up front before it breaks down.

[cafe latte]

It sounds like good advice.. I am checking Gumtree daily and I hope I can find something soon we both like. My missus keeps linking on new stuff which I admit look great, but I am a little worried about being able to work on myself and long term durability. And I hate spending so much money on cars!!
Chris

[PAT303]

There is no worry about long term durability and no concerns about working on them.Yes there is things that need attention just like every other model Defender but people who think there is any difference in reliability between a 200/300Tdi,Td5 or 2.4/2.2 TDCi Defender doesn't know what they are talking about.Forget all the bull**** narrow minded people hark on about,I'd drive any of them anywhere in Oz as members on here have been doing for decades,buy what you want to own,I wouldn't sell my Tdi for a Td5 and wouldn't sell my 2.4 TDCi for a 2.2 but would happily own one of each. Pat

[gusthedog]

You should know there's a wide range of usage patterns that wear out a vehicle way sooner for some compared to others. Maintenance is only part of the equation, the amount of heavy work is the key. If you get a good running 300TDi at say 300 000km for example, I'd suggest fitting a brand new head, new timing belt kit, hoses, water pump and "P" gasket, new serpentine belt and tensioner, upgraded intercooler and recored radiator. Possibly even a new clutch if there's any sign of oil at the rear of the engine. Keep the old bits in the shed for spares. Then you'll have a reliable vehicle with reasonable performance that's easy to fix at home with only simple tools. Spend the money up front before it breaks down.

I disagree. If it ain't broke.....

Too many people waste too much money on unnecessary preventative maintenance IMHO. If the head appears fine, leave it alone. If the hoses are ok, why replace them? Same goes with the other stuff.

[PAT303]

A hose could pass a visual inspection but be knackered never the less,generally you'll find out when it splits and cooks the head causing you a big dollar repair and a thread on here whinging about Land Rovers not having sufficient cooling.Not replacing belts and hoses that cost $150 every two years is idiotic. Pat

[cafe latte]

A hose could pass a visual inspection but be knackered never the less,generally you'll find out when it splits and cooks the head causing you a big dollar repair and a thread on here whinging about Land Rovers not having sufficient cooling.Not replacing belts and hoses that cost $150 every two years is idiotic. Pat

Every service I check belts and hoses, I also have a spare set in the back just in case. Before going on a big trip the car gets a once over, wheel bearings, belts, oil, water, actually anything that could be an issue.
One of the things that worries me about a new car is being stranded out bush and I cant get it going because some sender is not sending the right info to the computer. My main worry..
Chris

[PAT303]

I've spent more time in the bush than most and never had a sensor,solenoid,valve,air bag,ECU,common rail injector blah blah fail and leave me stuck in the Discovery,L322 Range Rover or TDCi defender.I have helped,towed or given a lift to lots of people in reliable pre electric vehicles thou,quite a lot actually. Pat

[cafe latte]

I've spent more time in the bush than most and never had a sensor,solenoid,valve,air bag,ECU,common rail injector blah blah fail and leave me stuck in the Discovery,L322 Range Rover or TDCi defender.I have helped,towed or given a lift to lots of people in reliable pre electric vehicles thou,quite a lot actually. Pat

You are not helping my case against my missus :) My case has just got a lot weaker if she reads this, grumble grumble..
Chris
Edit.. what did cheer me up no end today is out of curiosity I checked the price of Defenders in the UK (I used to live in the UK 12 years ago) and we are paying the same or cheaper for used Defender's which is a big surprise. Here in Aus most used cars are a lot more expensive than they should be so it looks like another plus for the defender :)

[PAT303]

Seriously I'd just buy a TDCi,you can travel Oz in it for the next 10 years and still get half your money back when the time comes to sell. Pat

[tact]

Seriously I'd just buy a TDCi,you can travel Oz in it for the next 10 years and still get half your money back when the time comes to sell. Pat

Second the motion. My neighbour across the road has a v8 90 and a 300tdi 110. He spends a lot of time and money on both vehicles. Both look immaculate on the outside and given the number of times one or both are in the workshop for mechanical work they should be marvels of mechanical reliability under the skin. And he NEVER takes them offroad...

It's coming to two years I have had my TDCi 2.2 MY2013 110DC. I don't get to take it into the Malaysian jungle as much as I wish but it has seen some "hardcore" trails/trips, some easy trips, and did 4 straight days fetching tonnes of emergency supplies into mountainous jungle communities from a base also in the jungle after Malaysia's worst floods in decades hit northern/eastern states.

It has also done dozens of 4-5hour high speed highway runs (KL to Penang. KL to Singapore. KL to northern state trail heads). Happy to cruise above the national 110km/h speed limit, even with 3/4t of rice in the tub). (Try that in older landys, toyos, et al).

It hasn't missed a beat. (It has had warranty services to fix aircon and an intercooler hose in the first year but never broken down stranded).

(...and as I wrote prior - listen to your wife. Happy wife... Happy life...)

[cafe latte]

Second the motion. My neighbour across the road has a v8 90 and a 300tdi 110. He spends a lot of time and money on both vehicles. Both look immaculate on the outside and given the number of times one or both are in the workshop for mechanical work they should be marvels of mechanical reliability under the skin. And he NEVER takes them offroad...

It's coming to two years I have had my TDCi 2.2 MY2013 110DC. I don't get to take it into the Malaysian jungle as much as I wish but it has seen some "hardcore" trails/trips, some easy trips, and did 4 straight days fetching tonnes of emergency supplies into mountainous jungle communities from a base also in the jungle after Malaysia's worst floods in decades hit northern/eastern states.

It has also done dozens of 4-5hour high speed highway runs (KL to Penang. KL to Singapore. KL to northern state trail heads). Happy to cruise above the national 110km/h speed limit, even with 3/4t of rice in the tub). (Try that in older landys, toyos, et al).

It hasn't missed a beat. (It has had warranty services to fix aircon and an intercooler hose in the first year but never broken down stranded).

(...and as I wrote prior - listen to your wife. Happy wife... Happy life...)

What are doing to me guys, somebody must be on the older Landy side?
I have not told her yet she is winning, and she asked me today (again) if I had rang the dealer re the test drive of the new Defenders. Err no..
What is the weakness of the Puma Defenders am I still going to be happy in 300,000km?
How much better are they than say a good td5?
On the plus point I will soon have a defender but not as convinced as my missus is that it should be a new one..
Chris

[tact]

Sorry, I read the whole thread in the past few days but cannot remember... Have you not driven a new 2.2 TDCi (Puma) yet?

Just go on and do it. Have a drive. Keep looking for that perfect low km TD5 or 300TDi.... and even if you only find a "decent" one within say a week - drive it. Then go back to the dealer and test drive the Puma again.

Chalk and Cheese. The driving experience. Specially on the highway at 110kmh. Make sure you get a chance to drive both on a highway for a bit. But even rowing (old models) or gliding (Puma) through the gears around suburbia will let you form some important driving impressions.

So yeah you have hit on a couple of key points...
Will the Puma be too hard to maintain yourself?
Will there be a risk of the electrickery breaking down and leaving you stranded?

Maintenance on a Puma seems limited to changing consumables (brakes/tyres) and lubricants - and greasing the various joints, bearings, drive flanges. None of these tasks will flummox you more than an older model. All are pretty much in common with an older model. (i.e. you don't have to polish the nuts or grease the circuits of a sensor or ECU)

Breakdown risk. I had to do some heart searching, and of more relevance/value - searching the forums.... to satisfy myself on this point before I bought into the legendary ("they always breakdown") Land Rover marque.

Lets unpack that. For 50yrs it seems there is a strong view amongst the high priests of the general global offroad community - that Land Rovers are unreliable. (not saying this "wisdom" is justified!)

Think about it: In the main. To which models can this "ancient wisdom" be referring? Yes - older (or ancient) models is the correct answer.

So what about newer models. Just more of the same old ("unreliable"?!) Land Rovers? Or has Land Rover done some things different.
Yes - Land Rover has done some things different.

So whats the guts on these newer models. What I learned is:
- you may get a good one brand new, or a bad one brand new.
- if you get a bad one brand new all the bad things will be replaced under warranty, perhaps two or 4 times!, until its good, in the first year.... after that you get a good run.

(Illustrating the last point.)
Seek and ye shall find: Tales like "I went through 3 diffs before 30,000km. The 4th was the treat - now put 300,000km on it and no issue. (Oh yeah!... the diffs are common to older models too!)

You will find some have had issues with electrickery that is not in common with the older models. But after warranty fix(es) in the first year, pretty much bob's your uncle.

So I bought one. Am putting as many miles on it as I can manage (not a lot) in these first two years, without going alone into remote places - intention being that if anything is going to break I want it to happen under warranty.

Just one Puma OWNER's & DAILY DRIVER's thoughts.

[tact]

Some more observations:
One of the big things you will be told by technophobes who tremble whenever water is near electrickery: You can't take a Puma near water. All the sensors and electronics will fail on you and suck your bank accounts dry.

Before you click this link some disclaimers:
- I don't advocate others do this
- I knew what I was doing and took my risk with my car - willingly and cognisant of possible consequences and not a long walk home.

Ok so click the link. Its a video made public on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153134228727044&set=vb.813717043&type=3&theater

Notes:
- in the latter stages of the video you can see my headlights, previously shining on the water surface, obviously go completely underwater.
- it is easy to measure what that depth was (around 1M)
- from the driver's side window I could see the water was about halfway covering the engine air intake
- about 2" water leaked into the cabin. (I stop on exit to open a door and let it out).

No damage. No problem. Just a pain in the posterior getting all the grass & sticks out of the grill/radiators afterwards.

Oh yeah... I hosed out the interior with a garden hose when I got home too. I think you can do that with older models also. :twisted:

[robh]

I'm with "Tact" (earlier post). Try both then buy a Puma.

I have had series Land Rovers and a County V8. After a long break I wanted another Land Rover, a Defender to be more precise but I was worried about all the hype about reliability issues. After much consideration I took the view; "keep em serviced and it'll be as reliable as any other make". So I purchased a MY2013 Puma and love it. Fantastic off-road like all Land Rovers, but much better on road than previous models. It is not over powered by any means but the match between engine and gearbox is great and it is just a pleasure to drive.

I recently travelled to Brisbane from Wagga Wagga to visit my Brother. He has a Isuzu 85 County which he uses as a workhorse for his building business. He has had at since the early 90's and its like his best friend. After driving the Puma, he wants one but it pains him as what to do with his best friend.

In the 25+ years he has had the County, he has never been shy to spend money on servicing and repairing it when required. It has therefore been very reliable and is still mechanically sound though the interior and bodywork show it has worked hard. I thoroughly enjoyed having a drive of his County but much preferred my Puma.

Will my Puma still be on the road in 30 years? I plan on finding out. I expect it will be if I follow my Brother's example of timely servicing.

[cafe latte]

Ok I have a plan.. I will under duress call the dealer and book the test drive for when the 110's come in (few weeks from memory he was expecting some). A friend tells me he knows someone with a Defender, he was not sure if it is a 300tdi or a td5. I will give him a ring and see if I can have a drive, if I can I will take the missus too, grumble grumble..
Chris

[tact]

Couple of weeks... That's good. It will give the folks who don't own a Puma plenty of time to take my posts apart. :p

[PAT303]

What are doing to me guys, somebody must be on the older Landy side?
I have not told her yet she is winning, and she asked me today (again) if I had rang the dealer re the test drive of the new Defenders. Err no..
What is the weakness of the Puma Defenders am I still going to be happy in 300,000km?
How much better are they than say a good td5?
On the plus point I will soon have a defender but not as convinced as my missus is that it should be a new one..
Chris

Chris,I'm a Tdi tragic,love mine to death but the TDCi is better,the deep first gear and off idle torque leaves the earlier power trains behind.The only problem mine has had was the adapter shaft and axle flanges,both easy fix's,look at Slunnies thread on his Td5,3K for a head gasket change or 5K if the head is stuffed,one off the reasons I never upgraded from the Tdi. Pat

[cafe latte]

Chris,I'm a Tdi tragic,love mine to death but the TDCi is better,the deep first gear and off idle torque leaves the earlier power trains behind.The only problem mine has had was the adapter shaft and axle flanges,both easy fix's,look at Slunnies thread on his Td5,3K for a head gasket change or 5K if the head is stuffed,one off the reasons I never upgraded from the Tdi. Pat

Which brings up the question that has worried me, how much and how easy is it to do a head gasket on the TDCi? I looked up the kits out of cuiosity anf they dont seem that expensive. The other question is what are the known faults of the TDCi there must be a list of its weak points by now?
I have called the dealer and there will be a 110 Defender arriving next week so it looks like a trip to Cairns is on the cards so I will get the Puma test drive.
Chris

[PAT303]

Well thats the thing,the TDCi doesn't do head gaskets unlike the Tdi and Td5,they have proven to be very reliable except for the adapter shaft and flanges,the flanges are a problem in the earlier models also.It's hard to find a pattern to the TDCi as far as problems go because there isn't any,they are no more expensive to repair than the Tdi. Pat

[tact]

Maybe a read through this thread will give you a bit of a (tilted) view of the kinds of problems TDCi owners have faced.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/174019-defender-puma-2-2-voice-your-issues.html

I say a "tilted view" not because anyone is misrepresenting facts. But because of the simple facts that:
1. Forums of any kind tend to attract more "this has broken" posts than "this hasn't broken" posts.
2. This particular thread appeals to people with problems to please come and post here.

But it does provide a view of a slew of problems. Are they specific to TDCi's or even particularly prevalent in TDCi's?

I think PAT303 said it well, it's hard to find a pattern.

So I fall back on my statement earlier: You'll get a good one, or a bad one right from the showroom floor. The bad bits get fixed under warranty in the first year. After that seems to be a good run.

Or you can buy something that looks good, has years/decades behind it and hundreds of thousands of kilometers on it. No warranty. And anything that breaks you can fix yourself. (Hopefully that, fixing stuff, won't tie up too much of your time)

[PAT303]

Looking at that thread you only read about backlash and changing diffs,both issue's are mostly caused by the adapter shaft and axle flanges,the early ones had clutch springs that came loose but for a long time the poor old P38 was blamed when it wasn't at fault,history has born that out.The TDCi has not had any where near the issue's that plagued the Tdi and Td5 and to me it's the best. Pat

[tact]

Yep. When you filter out the problems that are:
- likely driver unfamiliarity with features (engine revs holding up between gear changes)
- not specific to Puma's (all transfer case, drive flanges, and diff issues, door seals and water dripping on your foot)
- has been fixed in recall actions and newer models (turbo hoses, radiator hoses, intercooler hoses)

There's not a lot left that has any kind of pattern that you could say " oh yeah this always fails on TDCi's but not on other Defenders"

There ARE some specific differences that need to be noted about TDCi's and understood how it works:
- totally different gearbox
- totally different engine (very specific oils needed)
- different fuel pump and how it behaves when fuel is low, needs to be understood/learned!
- "idle jack" needs to be learned too or you'll be caught out in low range first some day by surprise.
- managed throttle (rev flare between gear changes)
- different throttle map in low range

These are things drivers of older defenders never dealt with.

[PAT303]

What needs to be learned about the fuel pump?,I've run mine out of fuel twice and it started straight away.It was just another one of the ''problems'' non TDCi owners made up because they couldn't find any real issue's to complain about. Pat

[tact]

hey PAT303, interested to know a little more detail about your two fuel runout events.

I haven't experienced running out in my TDCi so all I know is from some posts on the topic and reading the manual. What drops from those sources is something like this:
- the TDCi apparently does not have an in-tank fuel pre-pump, or priming pump and so it's a bother if air gets into the line when changing filters or running out of fuel.
- so a bit of care needed when changing fuel filter
- and from documents the TDCi tries to avoid complete fuel out situations by a series of escalating computer controlled steps:
- First the warning light and beep warning low fuel at a preset level.
- Then at a lower preset level a computer induced "misfire" effect that's supposed to get you to really take notice
- then it will go into limp mode and eventually shut down the engine.
- at first you can restart and travel a short distance still in limp mode but eventually total engine shut down.

All apparently with the view to NOT letting you completely run out and have to face other problems bleeding fuel lines etc

(edit: to be clear the notes about not having an in-tank pump doesn't apply to the 2.2 TDCis. There is definitely one there in 2.2 TDCi but still the computer initiated sequence to avoid fuel run out is still in 2.2 models)

[tact]

(From the workshop manual for MY2013 2.2l TDCi on topix)
The run-dry strategy is used to maintain the systems fuel prime at fuel run out. It ensures the minimum amount of fuel is always left in the swirl pot.

The instrument cluster activates the yellow low fuel warning light (next to the fuel gauge) with 17% of fuel remaining in the tank. The fuel gauge will indicate empty with 12% of fuel left in the tank.

With 6 liters left in the tank the run-dry strategy will be invoked. An engine mis-fire will be induced for approximately 1 mile after which the engine will be shut down. The engine can be re-started in mis-fire mode and will continue to run for a further mile until the engine shuts down again. This can be repeated until the fuel suction port in the tank is uncovered and causes engine fuel starvation and loss of prime. Re-starts after run-dry shut down are not recommended.

[cafe latte]

(From the workshop manual for MY2013 2.2l TDCi on topix)
The run-dry strategy is used to maintain the systems fuel prime at fuel run out. It ensures the minimum amount of fuel is always left in the swirl pot.

The instrument cluster activates the yellow low fuel warning light (next to the fuel gauge) with 17% of fuel remaining in the tank. The fuel gauge will indicate empty with 12% of fuel left in the tank.

With 6 liters left in the tank the run-dry strategy will be invoked. An engine mis-fire will be induced for approximately 1 mile after which the engine will be shut down. The engine can be re-started in mis-fire mode and will continue to run for a further mile until the engine shuts down again. This can be repeated until the fuel suction port in the tank is uncovered and causes engine fuel starvation and loss of prime. Re-starts after run-dry shut down are not recommended.

So does the TDCI not have a primer pump?
Chris

[PAT303]

I ran mine out on purpose,living out the back of bum **** I wanted to know how far I could go so twice ran it out,once with just the tank and then on empty with the light on on filled with one jerry can.It did 70k's before stopping after the light was on and 150k on the jerry can,I didn't have to do anything other than put more fuel in and away she went,no priming or any trouble,same as changing the filter,as long as the filter is full when you do it they start as run as normal. Pat

[tact]

Did you experience the induced misfire thing? The engine shut down?

Presumably so...
The first time the engine shut down - did you try starting and running further or call it a day and dump in fuel after the first time the engine stopped on you?

[tact]

So does the TDCI not have a primer pump?
Chris

There is an in-fueltank pump in the 2.2 TDCi that pushes fuel through the filter and up to the rest of the low pressure fuelling system to the high pressure injector fuel pump. Thats all I am familiar with.

Is that the "primer pump" you are asking about?

In the forums it seems that maybe older TDCi's (2.4l?) may not have that in-fueltank pump on the low pressure side.

[MrLandy]

I've run the tank down to computer induced misfire twice. Both times I had a jerry can at the ready. I reckon it's a very useful feature. And as Pat says good to know how long you can travel once the fuel light comes on. It must vary a bit, both times for me I only got 40km and 45km respectively between fuel light on and computer misfire. Both times filled the tank from jerry and no problems starting.

I can feel an adapter shaft and drive flanges change coming on already after 22,000km. Thinking I might order them from ash rifts and ask the dealer to replace in order to keep warranty clear. Has anyone done this? Obviously it would be cheaper and probably better to do the flanges myself and do the adapter shaft with the help of an independent Landy workshop. ...any thoughts from the brains trust in this in terms of warranty?

[MrLandy]

Ps: apols for big thumb iPhone typos! Meant Ashcrofts.

[cafe latte]

I've run the tank down to computer induced misfire twice. Both times I had a jerry can at the ready. I reckon it's a very useful feature. And as Pat says good to know how long you can travel once the fuel light comes on. It must vary a bit, both times for me I only got 40km and 45km respectively between fuel light on and computer misfire. Both times filled the tank from jerry and no problems starting.

I can feel an adapter shaft and drive flanges change coming on already after 22,000km. Thinking I might order them from ash rifts and ask the dealer to replace in order to keep warranty clear. Has anyone done this? Obviously it would be cheaper and probably better to do the flanges myself and do the adapter shaft with the help of an independent Landy workshop. ...any thoughts from the brains trust in this in terms of warranty?

22,000km is really bad that with my km would be a change once a year!!!! Are there not stronger better ones you can buy, also how much do they cost to change?
Chris

[tact]

22,000km is really bad that with my km would be a change once a year!!!! Are there not stronger better ones you can buy, also how much do they cost to change?
Chris

I don't think it's an annual thing.

As far as I understand the adapter shaft should be a one off thing. Mine will be done before warranty runs out in a year, if it needs doing. So far(37,000km) no sign of issues.

Haven't really gotten a handle on the drive flanges matter yet. It's not TDCi specific and SEEMS that with some maintenance or a mod it can be settled. Apparently the matter has known for many years. This one too will be a focus before warranty runs out for me

[ProjectDirector]

I've run the tank down to computer induced misfire twice. Both times I had a jerry can at the ready. I reckon it's a very useful feature. And as Pat says good to know how long you can travel once the fuel light comes on. It must vary a bit, both times for me I only got 40km and 45km respectively between fuel light on and computer misfire. Both times filled the tank from jerry and no problems starting.



I can feel an adapter shaft and drive flanges change coming on already after 22,000km. Thinking I might order them from ash rifts and ask the dealer to replace in order to keep warranty clear. Has anyone done this? Obviously it would be cheaper and probably better to do the flanges myself and do the adapter shaft with the help of an independent Landy workshop. ...any thoughts from the brains trust in this in terms of warranty?


So, you are saying that the adapter shaft is something that will fail prematurely on the 2.2 defender (mine is 2013). Obviously is not a part that is self lubricating like the flanges and hence premature failure??

[PAT303]

I would budget for axle flanges and after warranty Ashcroft adapter shaft for any TDCi owner.They both need replacing once and once only if done right,my vehicle has done most of the WA inland tracks,I only have the AB and closed section of the GB to do and those two parts with the bottom rear shock bushes are the only thing that have worn out.Most on my travels have also involved towing my camper and the adapter is the only TDCi specific part that wears,the other parts apply to all defender models. Pat

[MrLandy]

Tes drive-line backlash is evident already at 22,000 km, it's not very bad yet but it's a known fault that can be rectified anytime and will keep slowly getting worse otherwise. Mostly axle drive flanges I suspect.
Adapter shaft would be a precaution at this stage. I spend a lot of time nowhere near a Landrover repair centre or good independent, and losing drive due to a sheared adapter shaft would not be an easy fix out bush.

[PAT303]

I'd replace the flanges now before they damage the axle splines or you will need to replace them also. Pat