Motor Options????

[Kel Jean]

Hi All.....

Just after a few suggestions as to what people think is the best option....... My 2000 4.6 Thor motor has apparently decided to crack a sleeve in #7 pot.

What are peoples thoughts on.....

1) Replacement with a low k's motor..... hopefully not with the same issue

2) Rebuild current motor

3) Silver Seal it and hope for the best... I know its still only a temp fix

4) Any other suggestions welcomed

Cheers

Kel

[davidsonsm]

Has the current motor overheated? A hardness test on the block would be recommended as this may discount option 2. Option 1 will definately be the cheapest option, but does have a fair degree of risk associated with it.

[Keithy P38]

Thanks for posting :-) I'm glad you did!

Two options if it were me.

1) Rebuild. Add a few extras such as top hat liners, head work, torquer camshaft.

2) LS1/2. Tuning options opened right up just by slotting it in.

What are your plans with the P38? Lifetime or long-term vehicle, or will you sell it and move on in a few years?

Short term, a good second hand engine will save you money.

Long term you will appreciate the rebuild.

Lifetime you will appreciate an LS1/2.

Cheers
Keithy

[daf11e]

Kel, I would think it depends on other factors as well...such as.
How is the condition of the rest,
How long do you plan keeping it....etc
If it were mine I'd rebuild if possible.

[Kel Jean]

Thanks for the comments so far.......

I would like to keep the car and get it set up for a little more touring and off road work. The rest of the car is in great nick.... a few Rangie issues, but nothing else major.

Yes... unfortunately the motor has overheated

Keithy P38...... I like the idea of the LS1/2 option, but havent found much on this conversion so know very little about it. I was under the impression that the electronics compatibility side of it all is a "no go"

I also had in mind a lexus V8 conversion, but again wasnt a $$$ viable option

I would like to know more on the LS1/2 option

Hope this extra info helps

Cheers

Kel

[Slunnie]

I would install a rebuilt replacement 4.6 with top hat liners or have that engine rebuilt with top hat liners.

[Keithy P38]

I was doing some research on LS engine swaps into P38's a month or two ago to gather intel for my future plans. Thus far (in Australia) I'm aware of 3 that have been converted, possibly 4. All of which are GEMS P38's.

On the international forums there are a few too, same again, GEMS converted to LS.

The consensus from what I read was that "tricking" the Motronics ECU to believe it is still participating in the operation of a P38 (for BECM's sake) is harder than getting a dinner date with the Queen.

There is one lad who I'm a bit hazy on the details, has an LSX (iron block) in his but am unsure if GEMS or Thor.

More research needed!

It can't be that hard right?

Cheers
Keithy

[Hoges]

The "lad" who used the iron block is "Leftlanetruckin" on the Rangerovers.net forum. He's a very resourceful chap;) with seemingly endless resources to get stuff sourced at a reasonable price and machined to his satisfaction ... he had to get a bespoke adapter plate made for the transmission, a bespoke timing wheel for the CKPS etc ...has been a very interesting, albeit complicated path.

Another alternative is a 2.7TDV6 as per http://www.bodylogicuk.com/index.php/11/327170/ The cost however is likely more than the current worth of the vehicle. Plus lots of mucking around.

I would probably heed Slunnie's advice and go with a top-hat refurb... stick with minimum complexity :D;)

[Scouse]

Keithy P38...... I like the idea of the LS1/2 option, but havent found much on this conversion so know very little about it. I was under the impression that the electronics compatibility side of it all is a "no go"

There might be some info in the thread that goes with this post:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/165793-lucky-8a-s-project-p38-3.html#post1827902

[Keithy P38]

So what I sifted from that thread was that Lee from Labtronx has set up BCM's on GEMS P38's for LS engines, but sadly the Motronics is harder due to armoured prison guards.

Stupid question here...

Can a Motronics P38 be equipped with GEMS gear for the sole purpose of an LS conversion?

EDIT: I wish people who do these one-off conversions would document it on forums or websites to make it easier for others to do in future!

Cheers
Keithy

[Eevo]

for a disco 2 manual (yes i know its not a p38)

4.6l top hatted short $5.5k plus labour $2k. total $7.5k (from TRS)
ls1 + bits $6.5k plus labour $3.5k. total $10k (from my mechanic)


yes the ls1 costs 33% more but your getting something for that money

4.6 is 168kw and 380Nm
ls1 is 235kw and 465Nm (untuned)
which is 40% more peak power, 22% more peak torque.

if you look at the power band for both engine, the ls1 produces more torque down low too.

fuel economy in the ls1 is also better.

[Keithy P38]

The hardest part in a P38 is the electronics...

[Hoges]

Eevo does your mechanic use the GEM ems on the ls1 or has he worked out how to integrate the ls1 ems with the BECM? Was also wondering about the auto trans. adapter plate..

[Eevo]

Eevo does your mechanic use the GEM ems on the ls1 or has he worked out how to integrate the ls1 ems with the BECM? Was also wondering about the auto trans. adapter plate..


for the disco 2, we are going to use the original BECM. there are not that many inputs/outputs between the BECM and the ecu/ems.
here is a list.
P38 Range Rover Becm Connector Plug Pin Out Information-P38 Range Rover Electrical Common faults and Fixes (http://www.p38rangerover.com/becm/becm-connectors.html)
https://sites.google.com/site/rangeroverp382/home/becm-body-electrical-control-module
most dont talk to the engine


i cant speak for auto, as me d2 isnt auto.
however, my mech has put a chevy v8 into a p38 and i think that was an auto.

[Eevo]

also here for gems output
http://p38arover.com/rover/p38a/Engine_Management/GEMS_Systems.pdf


from a pdf, google: P-38 BeCM Body Control ECU Guide
ENGINE AND GEARBOX
? Engine temperature: This BECM input is not a high or low signal from a switch but a
varying voltage from a resistive sensor. The BECM puts this incoming voltage through an
internal analogue to digital converter which gives a numerical value between 0 and 255
which equates to how high or low the voltage is the resulting number is displayed here.
? Oil pressure: This shows the current logic status of the low oil pressure warning switch.
? Check engine (MIL): This shows the current logic status of the engine ECU'S check
engine warning lamp output.
? Alternator D+: This shows the current logic status of the alternator's D+ output.
? Autobox Z/Neutral: This shows the current logic status of the Z switch (for automatic
transmission) or for the gear stick in neutral switch (for manual transmission).
? Autobox Y: This shows the current logic status of the Y switch for automatic
transmission vehicles. It is not used with manual transmission vehicles.
? Autobox X/Reverse: This shows the current logic status of the X switch (for automatic
transmission) or for the gear stick in reverse gear switch (for manual transmission).
? Clutch: This shows the current logic status of the clutch switch.
? Gearbox overheat: This shows the current logic status of the gearbox's overheat
warning output.
? GearboxMES1: This shows the current logic status of one of the Auto gearbox's
operating mode outputs.
? GearboxMES2: This shows the current logic status of one of the Auto gearbox's
operating mode outputs.
? Transfer box overheat: This shows the current logic status of the transfer gear box's
overheat warning output.
? Transfer box low range: This shows the current logic status of one of the transfer gear
box's range state outputs.
? Transfer box hi range: This shows the current logic status of one of the transfer gear
box's range state outputs.

[finallyrangie]

Hello people

I put a mechanical diesel engine into my gems p38 and the electronics were surprisingly straight forward, from memory there are electrical connections for alternator light, oil pressure light, crank position sensor (original ring and sensor onto the adapter plate), coolant temp, there are several I think one is for the hevac, and the throttle position sensor for the gearbox, there may be a few more but most of the loom came out and the gems computer seems happy to just guess what's going on, so maybe a different engine with a stand alone ecu?

just my experience, I think I have a sheet with all the wire colours of the ones to cut or keep and what they do if you get far enough to need it.

Good luck, it's a tough choice.

[Keithy P38]

What engine did you go with finallyrangie?

[Pierre]

And another into the mix. Perhaps a v6 diesel from Ford Territory might bring the cost of "D3" running gear down a bit. AFAIAA, the Ford app is little changed from the D3, with sump being the main change area. Maybe an area of investigation if you were able to integrate the electronics.....


Pete

[finallyrangie]

What engine did you go with finallyrangie?



I am running a 2.8 tgv diesel, basically a bigger better 300tdi, the choice was made for me by a red p platter who jumped a light and left me with a good engine in a twisted disco.


being a completely mechanical engine I didn't have to worry about the computers running the engine, it only needs a live to the diesel pump, and the starter motor, add that to the list of connections

[Keithy P38]

Simple and effective! Good work!

Are you running a ZF behind it or are you using 3 pedals?

[finallyrangie]

Simple and effective! Good work!

Are you running a ZF behind it or arthrottle p. ition sensorusing 3 pedals?


still running the original ZF, the ratios are perfectly suited, just needs a turnbuckle on the throttle position sensor to adjust the maximum revs.

I may get banned from the p38 section for saying this but I think the 300tdi was the best engine land rover ever made, the 2.8 being the best they never managed, doesn't have the power of the V8 but more torque and 10 litres per 100 as a daily driver earns it lots of Brownie points.

[Keithy P38]

You can't ask for more really! That's good!

It'd be interesting to drive and compare.

We need an engine conversion sticky down the track I think...

Cheers
Keithy