Air Suspension - slow air leak

[coolum]

I have a problem with the car lowering over a period of time in the garage - it is also showing a dash light warning of suspension fault on longer drives - the compressor can be heard to run at odd times.
I have had the front suspension balance (left right) control valve replaced for the suspension. There were no other apparent leaks under workshop tests.


But this has not rectified the problem, So I removed the fuse over the last couple of days and the result has been a slow lowering of all bags at approximately the same rate @ 35mm lower in 24 hours (within 5 mm).


My question is:
What is the most likely culprit in this situation ?


My Guess (logically) is a slow leak in the Main Air Compressor tank fittings - it would be unlikely to be the holding tank itself, but I would suspect that there is a hole in a line or a seal that is allowing a drop in the pressure in the main tank?


Am I on the right track?


Your thoughts please?


Many Thanks


Steve

[Graeme]

All corner valves are closed unless the height is being adjusted.

I suspect that you did not remove the 20A suspension system fuse in the engine bay fuse box because removing that fuse will result in just the leaking corner being lowered overnight.

A corner can lower due to a leaking air-spring, a split air-line tube between the air-spring and the valve block (unlikely as the air would probably escape quickly) or the particular valve in the valve block is leaking. Most likely cause is a leaking air-spring, for which setting to off-road height then spraying with soapy water often identifies the leak.

[coolum]

I removed the yellow 20 amp self levelling fuse from the box near the battery.
I thought this was the correct one! do you have other advice?


As Mentioned this info was sourced on this forum (- many thanks )... and the car has dropped in all four corners the same (approximate height of 35 mm.


The car is not doing any self levelling at this time ...


To check I have opened doors at various times and this usually results in a 'fart' or two .. which is no longer happening


Is it possible that overall pressure is being lost to cause all to drop simultaneously.


I will double check the fuse tomorrow but I have cross checked the fuse prior to removal as being the one that effects this operation .. I got normal height and closed the doors to allow for self levelling to occur - then moved the car took out the fuse and then waited for self levelling after removal of the fuse and nothing has evident.


Any more clues please? one thing that has occurred to me is that the last thing prior to this 'issue' commencing was the installation (by British offroad) of the Blue GOE height adjusting rods? I did not think anything could go wrong ... perhaps I should return these to stock while this is being investigated?


Thanks


Steve

[Graeme]

The 20A fuse should be #26. Its needed to operate the valves etc so if removed then no corner or other valves can be opened. With this fuse removed there should be a suspension fault when the ignition is switched on and attempting to lower to access height (or raise if the engine is running) will have no effect.

The 35mm height change is of no real significance other than if all are the same then the system is lowering all corners trying to level.

There is no overall pressure. When the compressor stops and the corner valves are all closed the compressor exhaust valve is then opened until the pressure in the lines is down to 1 bar.

A height sensor giving faulty readings can also cause the vehicle to be lowered but not while the 20A fuse is removed.

The GOE rods should have no effect even if not all fitted using the same set of holes as the suspension ecu would think that the ground isn't quite level. However if the vehicle is now left overnight higher than previously then perhaps a leak has been exposed due to the air-spring folds now using different sections of the sides of the air-springs.

[letherm]

Any more clues please? one thing that has occurred to me is that the last thing prior to this 'issue' commencing was the installation (by British offroad) of the Blue GOE height adjusting rods? I did not think anything could go wrong ... perhaps I should return these to stock while this is being investigated?


Thanks


Steve

Hi Steve.

I'm no expert but I attended Gordon's seminar in Sydney recently and he explained how the rods work. they simply push the sensor higher or lower than normal because they create a different length to the standard rod. Maybe one is not set the same as the others ???? Other than that they really shouldn't have an effect on the air suspension as such as they just fool a sensor into thinking it's at a different height.

Martin

[coolum]

It seems I did a wrong count on the Fuse ..


Again thanks Graeme and the others who have commented.


I am hoping to see one side dropped to the ground tomorrow to identify the culprit once and for all. Then off to the repairer to do the magic.


I was not thinking the GOE rods were the cause but I usually try to return to basics to find issues.


All should be revealed overnight.


Steve

[shining]

I have had 2 leaks in my air system. Both in the piping around the compressor, just from vibration friction where the pipes were rubbing together. As they were just pin holes I repaired both in and installed spacers to prevent recurrence.
My symptoms were "suspension raising slowly" or something similar and access height only.

[coolum]

The Divers side Front went from 800 to 775 = approx. 25 mm +/-
The Passenger front went from 805 down to 790 = approx. 15mm +/-


I have had a new balance valve block installed, could it be both airbags or a slow leak remains in the Valve block balance controller?


Any further thoughts please?

[Graeme]

The left side going down less than the right will be due to the left side having taken on some of the weight from the right having dropped due to leaking. Get it up to off-road height then spray around the fold with soapy spray looking for air bubbles.

Both front and rear cross-link valves are closed by default, only opened at slow speed combined with significant articulation.

[coolum]

Thanks Graeme


Steve

[coolum]

Seems like its the passenger side leaking - I can hear hissing when raised to offroad height


Whats a ball park $ for a new Airbag worth?


Thanks again for all contributors.


Steve

[Graeme]

Its likely to be cheaper to buy the complete assembly especially ex UK. If the shocks haven't been replaced yet then a good opportunity to replace them both if funds allow.

Assembly part# should be RNB501580 ($263 + frt ex LRdirect.com)
Air-spring part# should be LR016403 ($369 + frt ex LRdirect.com)

Perhaps get after-market assemblies although I wasn't impressed with them.

[the_preacher1973]

Its likely to be cheaper to buy the complete assembly especially ex UK. If the shocks haven't been replaced yet then a good opportunity to replace them both if funds allow.

Assembly part# should be RNB501580 ($263 + frt ex LRdirect.com)
Air-spring part# should be LR016403 ($369 + frt ex LRdirect.com)

Perhaps get after-market assemblies although I wasn't impressed with them.

Graeme,


I'm a bit confused as to what the two part numbers refer to.


Is RNB501580 the complete strut assembly or just the shock? For shocks and spring do you need to order both part numbers?

[Graeme]

The first number is the complete assembly whereas the 2nd is only the air-spring. I didn't post the shock number.

[scarry]

Mine appears to have the sinking feeling,lost 30mm both fronts,45mm both rears over three days:mad:

Pumps up straight away once started:)

Measured the heights at all wheels and left a door open for the night,see how they are in the morning.

Valve block is the guess from the indi,they have done a few in D4's,the check valve fails and the pressure drops off overnight.Apparently the vehicle will try to re level even when it is asleep.

[Graeme]

The door being open wont have any effect. You need to remove the 20A engine bay suspension fuse or disconnect the battery to prevent levelling to see which corner has the leaking air-spring or corner valve.

[scarry]

To dark and cold to pull the fuse,so left it just to see what happens.

Fronts both lost 22mm each side,rears lost 5mm each side.

Will pull fuse tonight and see what happens,after a run to get it back up.

Is it definitely fuse 26?

As there is also fuse 3,and10 that have EAS symbols?

Thanks

[Graeme]

Yes, engine bay fuse 26 (20A). There is also a 5A fuse(3) in the compressor relay feed-back circuit but that one can stay fitted.

Fuse 10 in the passenger compartment fuse panel is the ignition feed, which is the one that gets removed to stop the annoying messages whilst driving with fuse 26 removed to prevent lowering.

[scarry]

So pulled the 26 fuse,doors shut,bonnet open,vehicle dropped same as having door open:o

Will leave it until tomorrow morning and have another measure,without starting it,but with fuse out.

Points to front valve block,for sure,rear inconclusive ATM.

[scarry]

So pulled the 26 fuse,doors shut,bonnet open,vehicle dropped same as having door open:o

Will leave it until tomorrow morning and have another measure,without starting it,but with fuse out.

Points to front valve block,for sure,rear inconclusive ATM.

Changed the front corner valve,or valve block as some people call them,all good.Sat for four days,perfect.

Pretty easy to change,three lines and an electrical plug.

[Graeme]

For clarity, the valve blocks contain 2 corner valves (1 for each side/corner) and the cross-link valve.

[scarry]

Mines playing up again but differently :mad::mad::mad:

Suppose time to pull the fuse and see what happens...

Been sitting for four days and measured heights seem all over the place..

[gandalf]

It seems leaking air is a common problem.
I have the front only ( left and right ) dropping 15 mm overnight.
This is with the 20 amp engine bay fuse removed.
I'm guessing that since the fuse has been removed, that it is a valve block
leak. If that is correct, where is the valve block and can I test for leak
or would it be an internal leak and just replace?

Thanks
Les

[gghaggis]

Front valve block is mounted on the inside of the front bumper, driver's side. If you unclip the lower half of the wheel-well lining you should be able to access it.

Cheers,

Gordon

[rufusking]

Something still doesn't quite make sense that an air leak is making both front springs drop 15mm. Within the valve body the passages are only open when energized so for both spring to loose air the cross link value would need to be open or both front circuits with a corresponding leak.

"Periodic Re-leveling -
When the vehicle is parked, the air suspension control module 'wakes up' two hours after the ignition was last switched off and then once every six hours (some years this is 24 hours). The vehicle height is checked and if the vehicle is not level within a pre-set tolerance, small downwards height adjustments may be made automatically."

I realize you have pull the 20A fuse but there is also a 5A that feeds the Suspension ECU.

Before you go pulling things apart have you parked the vehicle around the other way (forward in instead of reverse or vise versa)? If re-levelling is the culprit then the rear will drop 15mm overnight. Alternatively you could check the heights after +2 hours, 6 hours and 24 hours to see if there is a gradual drop or one movement in a time period.

Good luck with it.

[oldsalt]

Is there any way to "stop" the "Periodic re-levelling" such as when I'm camping...I'm not always able to find a piece of level ground and with my roof top tent (and us inside) the car is certainly not level !!! so can I just bypass this process altogether and get on with enjoying my camping ?
It's annoying to find the car almost on it's bump stops after a few days in an attempt to get itself "level"... sometimes I think these cars are just a bit too smart for their own good...:p

[rufusking]

You could pull the suspension fuses ( they may differ between model ,D3/D4/RRS and years ) or find a spot in the loom to put a couple of switches in. Doing this may log fault codes though.

[gandalf]

rufusking,

Before i removed the 20 A fuse the car would drop over 24-48 hours on all 4 corners.

I'ii try tonight with the car parked in the opposite direction, ( car parking spot is slopped left to right and front to back).

gghaggis,

Will also attempt to access valve block tomorrow.

Thanks
Les

[scarry]

It seems leaking air is a common problem.
I have the front only ( left and right ) dropping 15 mm overnight.
This is with the 20 amp engine bay fuse removed.
I'm guessing that since the fuse has been removed, that it is a valve block
leak. If that is correct, where is the valve block and can I test for leak
or would it be an internal leak and just replace?

Thanks
Les

Internal leak only,if you pull one apart you will see how it works.
Replacing is the go.

Mine did same as yours a few months ago and replacing it fixed the issue.

But now I have a leak somewhere else,fuse is out at the moment so will see how it is in the morning.

[Graeme]

The 5A fuses cannot cause the valves to operate so don't need to be removed.

The engine bay 5A is from the compressor side of the compressor relay so that the suspension ecu knows that the relay contacts are closed. The passenger fuse panel 5A is the ignition feed so that the suspension ecu knows that the ignition is switched on, but also supplies power to the processor (but not the FETs) if the 20A fuse is removed.

[scarry]

Left mine for two lots of 12 hours as I had to use the vehicle.Pulled fuse 26 both times.
The following happened.Both fronts dropped,one side about 13mm,other about 6mm.Right rear stayed the same or went up about 2 mm,probably as others dropped.Left rear dropped 11mm.

Last night I left it in off road height,seemed to stay about level,probably because of larger volume of air in system,i am thinking.

Using Big Blue(a soapy solution in a squirt bottle we use for looking for leaks at work),no external leaks around valve block that was replaced recently.Maybe it is internally faulty and rear has a bag leak.I checked where air line goes into top of rear bag,no leaks.Actual bag is difficult to test for leak as it has a metal cover over it,or do you try to look for leak at bottom and top of metal cover?Rubber boot on the lower section needs to come off as well I think?

I will take it to the Indi for repair,but just trying to sort it myself for interest before it goes.

[scarry]

OK,EAS experts,

Could this happen?

Disconnect battery on vehicle and it doesn't drop down overnight.

With battery connected,pull fuse 26 and the other EAS fuse,i think it is either 6 or 5,and the vehicle drops overnight?

If it can happen,any clues to fault?

Wiring fault somewhere?

Any comments appreciated.

[Graeme]

Is a Traxide DBS fitted and the aux battery not disconnected?

Was the vehicle at the same height each time, ie normal or off-road etc and was the vehicle parked in the same spot?

Edit: Traxide question is irrelevant.

[scarry]

Is a Traxide DBS fitted and the aux battery not disconnected?

Was the vehicle at the same height each time, ie normal or off-road etc and was the vehicle parked in the same spot?

Normal height,i will have to check the DBS was disconnected,presume it was.

[MrLandy]

My Landy has springs 😇🙃

[scarry]

My Landy has springs 😇🙃

So it sags when you load it up?:D

Hmmm,so do the jap things??.;)

[Graeme]

My Landy also has springs - air-springs.

[MrLandy]

Oops! I stepped across to the south side of the river... I'll just step back :wasntme:🙃😬

[gghaggis]

OK,EAS experts,

Could this happen?

Disconnect battery on vehicle and it doesn't drop down overnight.

With battery connected,pull fuse 26 and the other EAS fuse,i think it is either 6 or 5,and the vehicle drops overnight?

If it can happen,any clues to fault?

Wiring fault somewhere?

Any comments appreciated.

I'd repeat the experiment to confirm: raise to off-road height, disconnect the battery (don't rely on pulling the fuse), measure all 4 corners (from the centre of the wheel to the wheel arch directly above), then recheck in the morning. If you're parking on uneven or sloping ground you may have to repeat with the car parked in the opposite direction.

If it's really not dropping with the battery disconnected, the valve-block wiring might be suspect - you could then try disconnecting the valve-block wiring (with the battery connected and this time with the fuse pulled) and see what happens.

Cheers,

Gordon

[scarry]

Thanks for the help,work got in the way again today:mad:
So didn't get a chance to do anything else.

[scarry]

Seemed to lower slower with the battery disconnected,for some weird reason.

Whatever way it was left,it pointed to one of the front bags leaking.

Bag changed,see how it goes.

[scarry]

If the vehicle is left on flat ground for a couple of days,should it drop at all as it adjusts itself?

And should it drop the same amount all round?

I think mine is not quite right:mad:

[LRD414]

If the vehicle is left on flat ground for a couple of days,should it drop at all as it adjusts itself?
My understanding of the system is that it will not need to make lowering adjustments if parked on flat ground (flat as defined by the program's limits). The self-leveling function aims to achieve level within set limits by adjusting down. So if your starting point is already level (within its set limits) it will not make adjustments.

If you have a leak, there will be a partial lowering from the leak (eg one corner), followed by the self-leveling function aiming to re-level. This would then repeat every time the vehicle checks for level (6 hrs I think), assuming the leak is continuing.

But I don't know what the limits are that define level for the program.

Scott

[LandyAndy]

Have you tried locking the suspension????
When mine was delivered they suggested if I was parking it for extended periods I should lock the suspension to prevent any "adjustments" being made and possible battery issues.
Andrew

[scarry]

Have you tried locking the suspension????
When mine was delivered they suggested if I was parking it for extended periods I should lock the suspension to prevent any "adjustments" being made and possible battery issues.
Andrew

Never heard of that,probably won't help in my situation.

Mine may sit around for a week,i presume suspension locking may be for long extended periods?

Mine seems to re level over a week and get lower and lower:(

Which i am sure it didn't use to do.

Anyway,as the experts have said,and i have done before,i have left it with the wiring plug off the front corner valve and fuse 26 out.

Will try and leave it like this for longer than have done previously to see what happens.

[coolum]

In my case after all testing by leaving out fuses etc .. and after replacing the centre 'thingy' it was found to be a passenger airbag slow leak.


now fine after replacement.


Seems the diagnosis of the part in err is the hardest thing ...


it may or not have been the case that the first repair was unnecessary ?


I guess having a couple of new parts means they will not breakdown for another 250K.??


Thanks


Steve

[LRD414]

Have you tried locking the suspension????

When mine was delivered they suggested if I was parking it for extended periods I should lock the suspension to prevent any "adjustments" being made and possible battery issues.

Andrew


Andrew, did they explain how to lock suspension? I understood that fuse removal was the only way to prevent movement.

Scott

[LandyAndy]

Simple,where you lower/lift look for the lock symbol;);););););).
Andrew

[Graeme]

That just allows the vehicle to travel a little faster at access height before automatically raising, as might be useful in underground car-parks.

[scarry]

Ok,question for the experts.

If the two fronts go down over 48hours with the electrical plug removed from the front cross over valve,one side about 12mm,the other about 8mm,how can you tell 100% that the valve is leaking?Also fuse 26 under bonnet out.

Thanks in advance.

[MrLandy]

Sorry guys but I have to say, all this sounds bonkers to a Defender devotee. Is air suspension really worth it? My suspension does nothing! in a car park. If I can't fit in a carpark I park somewhere else. Not meant to be cheeky, I genuinely want to know if air suspension is really worth it?

[Graeme]

If the two fronts go down over 48hours with the electrical plug removed from the front cross over valve,one side about 12mm,the other about 8mm,how can you tell 100% that the valve is leaking?Also fuse 26 under bonnet out.One corner lowering will always partly lower an adjacent corner because the chassis doesn't bend, not that easily anyway. I would park the vehicle at off-road height and repeat the test to give the opportunity for an air-spring hole to be opened further or not so much to produce a different rate of leak.

[scarry]

Thanks Graeme,i did that once before,and from memory it went down slower,i put that down to the extra amount of air in the system,but will try again.

[rar110]

Sorry guys but I have to say, all this sounds bonkers to a Defender devotee. Is air suspension really worth it? My suspension does nothing! in a car park. If I can't fit in a carpark I park somewhere else. Not meant to be cheeky, I genuinely want to know if air suspension is really worth it?

I think so, but it comes down to individual opinion. 5 years ago when my main drive was the Perentie wagon, I wouldn't really have consider it. 3 years ago I was looking at air springs in the rear of the Perentie, and maybe something more comfortable like a Puma. However, I would ask myself is all the electronics on a Puma and a weaker rear diff really worth it. Like every choice there will be a compromise. As I said for me it's with it. I can lower the RRV so older relatives can get in or in an off road situation I can have a 2" lift, and when back on road down to normal height. The ride on Landy coils is impressive, on air springs it's better. Air springs are like tyres that never have contact wear.

[scarry]

I think so, but it comes down to individual opinion. 5 years ago when my main drive was the Perentie wagon, I wouldn't really have consider it. 3 years ago I was looking at air springs in the rear of the Perentie, and maybe something more comfortable like a Puma. However, I would ask myself is all the electronics on a Puma and a weaker rear diff really worth it. Like every choice there will be a compromise. As I said for me it's with it. I can lower the RRV so older relatives can get in or in an off road situation I can have a 2" lift, and when back on road down to normal height. The ride on Landy coils is impressive, on air springs it's better. Air springs are like tyres that never have contact wear.

But if you have issues with the system,it will certainly lighten your pocket,and some issues are a PITA to resolve….

Parts of the EAS wear out a lot quicker than coils..

[Graeme]

Get it into super-extended mode and do some serious soapy water spraying on the one that sinks the most. You could loosen the compressor to valve block line at the valve block to do a soapy water check for escaping air after the initial pressure is released indicating a leaking valve. Indeed, as any escaped air from the corner valve would be blocked by the compressor's exhaust valve, a corner valve could leak badly and go undetected except for minimal lowering of the corner.

[rar110]

But if you have issues with the system,it will certainly lighten your pocket,and some issues are a PITA to resolve…. Parts of the EAS wear out a lot quicker than coils..

Yep, that's the sort of compromise I was referring to.

[scarry]

The newish corner valve was the issue,hope this one lasts a lot longer than the last.

Now after sitting for a week the air compresser doesn't even run after the vehicle starts.:)

[TD50WA]

Mines done 280k+ and the only thing I do know that has been replaced is the compressor - found a receipt for it in the service history papers!

But, it's now getting the dreaded bong sound and amber fault showing....and it's leaking for sure at the front somewhere.....but I've got no complaints because that sort of kms with no faults (that I know of) seems pretty reliable....and I had a P38 some time ago, again if maintained was quite reliable too.

I spent loads on my D2 coil suspension too, so overall I still like the advantages of air over coils, especially the convenience of height change...and the ride is just great.

I think I will just start changing everything because I have no doubt it's all overdue to crap itself sooner rather than later (and Sod's law dictates it'll be in the middle of nowhere) and I'd like another 200k to be just as reliable as the first.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

Hi brains-trust!

In the last 2 weeks, I have noticed a slow leak (overnight) in the front end somewhere. I thought it may have been the front left, as it was ~15-20mm lower overnight.

2 days ago, I changed all 4 struts as I had already planned to do this before I noticed the 'slow leak'.
I was hopeful that this would fix the issue.

Alas, I have noticed the same 'slightly drooping' front left corner after the last 2 evenings (sitting overnight). Is this likely/possibly the cross-link/valve block? I'm assuming this is the only other piece in the puzzle (for the front's at least).
Is there a foolproof way of checking???

Also, does the 'valve check' process on the IID Tool (under Service - Suspension...) detect leaks? I would suspect not...???

Thanks.

Rob

[PerthDisco]

Several videos on YouTube how to check for leaks
LR3 / Discovery 3

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

Several videos on YouTube how to check for leaks
LR3 / Discovery 3

thanks - i've had a quick look through. I'll try and do some more troubleshooting this weekend...

Rob

[Matty_P]

have a read of this link it mentions a similar problem and fix just a few pages in after the rear pic of the D3.

Land Rover Discovery 3 Review - Australia Road Trip Experience (http://dirtydrifters.com.au/land-rover-discovery-3-review/)

[PerthDisco]

thanks - i've had a quick look through. I'll try and do some more troubleshooting this weekend...

Rob

Meet my new favourite grumpy old man on YouTube

In part 3 the corrosion underneath is unbelievable what these cars suffer in northern climes. Wonder anything can work at all.

YouTube (https://youtu.be/7gtU8P9uux4)

[loanrangie]

I have seen pics of air tanks rusting from inside out in the northern climes.

[TheDonsWay]

Hi all, I just bought a Disco 3, and the whole vehicle seems to from overnight from normal height down to access height. Does this sound like a leak from near the compressor somewhere or self levelling from a single bag leak or somewhere in that vicinity.
This is my first experience with air suspension, and only my 2nd ever land rover, previous was a disco 1 that I sold after getting it roadworthy, too much body roll for my liking.

[scarry]

Hi all, I just bought a Disco 3, and the whole vehicle seems to from overnight from normal height down to access height. Does this sound like a leak from near the compressor somewhere or self levelling from a single bag leak or somewhere in that vicinity.
This is my first experience with air suspension, and only my 2nd ever land rover, previous was a disco 1 that I sold after getting it roadworthy, too much body roll for my liking.

Could be lots of things.
A leak and the vehicle is relevelling and working its way down.
Corner valve leaking causing same sort of issue.

Or other faults.

Pull the EAS fuse and leave it a day or two,and that will give you more ideas as to what is wrong,hopefully.

A GAP tool is also helpfull to check the system,gallery pressures, etc.

Been there done that quite a few times with our D4,frustrating once their are problems with the EAS.

[TheDonsWay]

Thank you scarry. I took out fuse#26 last night, and this morning its all up in the air still, which I'm hoping is a good thing to narrow down options a bit. GAP tool? I do have a diagnostic scan tool, but it doesn't show me much on the disco. Might have to take out a loan and buy one suited to LR.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Have you checked the heights from centre of the hub to the inside edge of the wheel arch? Front l and R should be the same, and Rear l to r as well, with about 15-20 mm difference front to back, the rear riding higher.

It could well be that the sensor height calibration is off and as stated above, the car is trying to level and so works its way down. By taking out the fuse, this stops the auto levelling and confirms no leaks in the system, as otherwise, with a leak, the car would still drop down.

You will need a diagnostic tool to reset the height calibration at each corner, or know someone that has one. Offsets range +/_50mm on the D4, I suspect the D3 is similar.