Disco 3 Motor Options

[DonDownunder]

Hello, Is the 2.7 V6 TD fitted in a 2012 Disco4 compatible to my 2008 Disco3 ??
As mentioned before in other posts my engine is stuffed (Timing belt drive pulley loose and timing off-set 45deg) and I am chasing a motor for a dealer to install. I am home now and a good supply of Happy Pills:(:(:mad::mad:

[SBD4]

Don, Have a read of this thread. Although it was done with a territory engine and gear box some of the info is relevant, particularly the post by Greame regarding the different CAN bus wiring after 2010 between D3 & D4.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/214258-help-2012-engine-into-05-d3-issues-2-7-a.html

[PeterOZ]

Don, Have a read of this thread. Although it was done with a territory engine and gear box some of the info is relevant, particularly the post by Greame regarding the different CAN bus wiring after 2010 between D3 & D4.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/214258-help-2012-engine-into-05-d3-issues-2-7-a.html


I just hd a Territory engine fittted to by MY08 D3 by MR Automotive.


I'm not sure what model / year territory though. Suggest giving them a call and picking their brain on it.

[DonDownunder]

I have managed to get my hands on a new EU4 TD 2.7 V6 for just under $10K
The root mode of failure was the collapse of the co-drive chain between the two cams on the passenger side head causing the exhaust cam to lock solid and the momentum of engine and vehicle doing 80k ultimately moved the drive sprocket and subsequent instant damage to valves and pistons and probably the bottom end.

I just hd a Territory engine fittted to by MY08 D3 by MR Automotive.


I'm not sure what model / year territory though. Suggest giving them a call and picking their brain on it.

[DazzaTD5]

Just as some side info for whoever is interested..

A brand new crate engine from J Land Rover can be purchased for round that 9K - 12K, in either a brand new or a factory refurb option, I've used both (depending on available supply), the factory refurb, the only used part on it would be the cast iron block and I suspect it prolly gets built on the same engine assembly line as any other engine. All I do is supply the year model, VIN. Supplied as what is called "stripped" but includes:

*Complete bottom end, including upgraded crankshaft & oil pump assembly (for the 2.7lt).
*Cylinder heads fitted complete right upto glowplugs, fuel cooler, the plastic cam covers.
*front timing assembly complete with cover.
*Oil filter & engine is filled with oil.

Yes there is more labour cost to strip all the ancillary parts off the old engine, clean inspect, fit to the new engine. But EVERY single engine change I've done has been absolutely trouble free, I'm almost into double figures now with engine changes. I wont even consider used engines from wreckers that will say ANYTHING for a sale "low mileage" "its in great condition" "oh its not from XX year model, but it will work".

pic is one such smooth change over;
https://www.facebook.com/aztech4x4/photos/pcb.916678918404924/916677968405019/'type=3&theater

For owners its peace of mind you are getting a perfect new engine, for repairers you know its going to work in that year model and be trouble free.

Regards
Daz

[DonDownunder]

Thanks for the info Daz,
As I mentioned I obtained a new Engine (crate) from Triumph/Rover spares in SA, The cost under 10K delivered to dealer w/shop.and it is a LR factory refurb Was advised by dealer that with low Au$$ for a new one would cost up about $15K ++ ex UK. The cost to install /changeover and other work is almost the same as the Engine itself at the dealer. Reason back at dealer as they put new timing belts on it 20k ago (@168k) and had to explore the chance of item warranty but discovered a broken chain . What I would like to know is why the chain broke and was it influenced by the chain tension device?? At the end of the day I will have to sweat the asset after spending nearly $20k and keep it.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/955.jpg
Just as some side info for whoever is interested..

A brand new crate engine from J Land Rover can be purchased for round that 9K - 12K, in either a brand new or a factory refurb option, I've used both (depending on available supply), the factory refurb, the only used part on it would be the cast iron block and I suspect it prolly gets built on the same engine assembly line as any other engine. All I do is supply the year model, VIN. Supplied as what is called "stripped" but includes:

*Complete bottom end, including upgraded crankshaft & oil pump assembly (for the 2.7lt).
*Cylinder heads fitted complete right upto glowplugs, fuel cooler, the plastic cam covers.
*front timing assembly complete with cover.
*Oil filter & engine is filled with oil.

Yes there is more labour cost to strip all the ancillary parts off the old engine, clean inspect, fit to the new engine. But EVERY single engine change I've done has been absolutely trouble free, I'm almost into double figures now with engine changes. I wont even consider used engines from wreckers that will say ANYTHING for a sale "low mileage" "its in great condition" "oh its not from XX year model, but it will work".

pic is one such smooth change over;
https://www.facebook.com/aztech4x4/photos/pcb.916678918404924/916677968405019/'type=3&theater

For owners its peace of mind you are getting a perfect new engine, for repairers you know its going to work in that year model and be trouble free.

Regards
Daz

[DazzaTD5]

Thanks for the info Daz,
As I mentioned I obtained a new Engine (crate) from Triumph/Rover spares in SA, The cost under 10K delivered to dealer w/shop.and it is a LR factory refurb Was advised by dealer that with low Au$$ for a new one would cost up about $15K ++ ex UK. The cost to install /changeover and other work is almost the same as the Engine itself at the dealer. Reason back at dealer as they put new timing belts on it 20k ago (@168k) and had to explore the chance of item warranty but discovered a broken chain . What I would like to know is why the chain broke and was it influenced by the chain tension device?? At the end of the day I will have to sweat the asset after spending nearly $20k and keep it.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/955.jpg

Round that $20K is about right, so I think your repair was well within the ball park for cost.

I've not actually had one that broke the (timing) chain and the tensioner for each chain is a spring tensioner with an oil passage through it to allow good lubing of the chain/guide. Ive not noticed a huge amount of wear in either the chain or the tensioner, without looking at it, I'm merely speculating. Maybe someone has had this happen and has a better answer.

Just some info for ones that might be confused with "timing chain". One camshaft on each cylinder head is driven by the "timing belt" on the front of the engine (external), the other camshaft (as its a twin overhead camshaft engine) is driven by the first camshaft via a timing chain.

The second "timing belt" on the back of the engine (external) when quoted to replace your timing belt isnt actually a timing belt, and drives the high pressure fuel pump (the spec is to replace both out at the same interval).

Regards
Daz

[DiscoDB]

Daz,

Sounds like you are getting a lot of work from blown TdV6's. Have they all been the same failure mode, and what has been the range of km's?

David

[DonDownunder]

Daz,

Sounds like you are getting a lot of work from blown TdV6's. Have they all been the same failure mode, and what has been the range of km's?

David
David, 189,000 k on my Disco 3, NS Timing chain broke. It will be interesting to remove both the cams, broken chain and tensioner and drill down to find root cause. Nothing worse than not finding anything. :( Don

[TerryO]

As I have said previously 10k to change a engine over is very expensive, even with new pulleys, belts, hoses etc.

Having had it done on my D3 the cost was no where near that. Quite a number in here have had engines swapped over for around the 5-6k mark. If the 10k included new injectors as well then it's starting to sound nearly ok at a stretch.

[DonDownunder]

Hi Terry, May I ask... were you able to do all the work yourself or was it done local to you in a workshop by others? And was the body separated or just an engine/gearbox removal method. I have limited resources these days, cheers Don

As I have said previously 10k to change a engine over is very expensive, even with new pulleys, belts, hoses etc.

Having had it done on my D3 the cost was no where near that. Quite a number in here have had engines swapped over for around the 5-6k mark. If the 10k included new injectors as well then it's starting to sound nearly ok at a stretch.

[TerryO]

I did none of the work myself, changing a engine means the body must be removed. Plus it is the easiest and quickest way of doing it.

If your getting quoted 10k why not just ring around the independents and get other quotes. I did make these observations about the high costs you were quoting both for a new engine and labour earlier on in your original thread if I remember rightly.

Will I give any recommendations on who to use? No. How ever that doesn't mean others won't, there are quite a number of independents around Sydney who do great work and won't charge two arms and two legs for it. If you don't know any why not start a thread in the D3/4/RRS section asking for names and numbers of Sydney based independents?

[kodakman7]

I have had the same misfortune. Replaced the timing belt/s etc in May, about 4K km ago- (car gets very little use), then motor died big time- usual story with broken cam timing belt. Whe we pulled it down, the bolt on the cam belt tensioner (which was new and supplied with the new belt & tensioner) had sheared at oil pump housing level. Broken journals on the exh cam on one side and inlet cam other side. Bit of a bugger as motor has only done 80K. Considering rebuiding as a project but some of the parts for these are hard or not available. Currently have the body off on a hoist and fitting a new EU4 spec motor from TRS- new long motor inc injectors, turbo, EGR's for $12,900. Motor dressed and should go back in chassis tomorrow or Tue. Interested in getting another blown motor to consolidate onto my "spare"one to rebuild.

[DonDownunder]

Well it purrs like a kitten with the new engine. Drives well, no leaks so far, all electrics good.
Only a few issues were with correcting the bolting on all the after market Items:
ARB Bullbar, Kaymar Rear Bar Spare wheel Carrier & Mitch Tow Hitch.
Left the old motor with the Dealer Workshop :D

[kodakman7]

Hi Don, I am assuming you have the same engine package as my new one. Was your old engine an EU2 or EU3 spec? What year is the car? BTW which workshop? :)

[DonDownunder]

Hi, I think my old Engine was a EU2. Built 01 of 2008. New unit: long bare EU4 2.7 crate motor from TRS in SAust . No Injectors, Turbo or fuel pump. $9900, Changeover by Alto Landrover (Dealer Service Workshop) Cab off chassis. Labor $4900, Additional parts needed $3500 job all up approx $18300

Hi Don, I am assuming you have the same engine package as my new one. Was your old engine an EU2 or EU3 spec? What year is the car? BTW which workshop? :)

[PeterOZ]

Hi, I think my old Engine was a EU2. Built 01 of 2008. New unit: long bare EU4 2.7 crate motor from TRS in SAust . No Injectors, Turbo or fuel pump. $9900, Changeover by Alto Landrover (Dealer Service Workshop) Cab off chassis. Labor $4900, Additional parts needed $3500 job all up approx $18300



I got 2nd hand one from a wrecked Territory, now don't ask me what year as I have no idea. MR auto advised the vehcile had 12,000km on the clock so can only assume it was a late model Terriotry.


Cost me $13.1k complete also with a few extras done while body was off.


silicone intercooler hose, radiator overhauled, new washer bottle and neck, coolant cross over pipe on top of engine swapped out for my new one.


engine runs sweetly, good power, economy seems good.


Quite a few creaks and groans that were not there before, could be body bushes or could be suspension bushes.


Anyway I'm mobile again. Quote for a new long engine was $22k

[DonDownunder]

We were travelling away from home when ours failed. It was necessary to return to dealer as we just had the timing belt done by them (-20k) and some consideration was given that the belt job was responsible. but not the case.
FYI . 23K was the full genuine indicative estimate quote from Landrover.
I got 2nd hand one from a wrecked Territory, now don't ask me what year as I have no idea. MR auto advised the vehcile had 12,000km on the clock so can only assume it was a late model Terriotry.


Cost me $13.1k complete also with a few extras done while body was off.


silicone intercooler hose, radiator overhauled, new washer bottle and neck, coolant cross over pipe on top of engine swapped out for my new one.


engine runs sweetly, good power, economy seems good.


Quite a few creaks and groans that were not there before, could be body bushes or could be suspension bushes.


Anyway I'm mobile again. Quote for a new long engine was $22k

[PeterOZ]

Daz,

Sounds like you are getting a lot of work from blown TdV6's. Have they all been the same failure mode, and what has been the range of km's?

David



my engine went at about 201,000km. MR auto did not say exactly what broke but alluded to timing belt area. My timing belts had been replaced, including tensioner about 10,000km earlier.


Now I'm unsure if it was the infamous bracket or the chain that let go.


Left a bad taste in my mouth after having that area replaced only 10,000km beforehand.

[DiscoDB]

my engine went at about 201,000km. MR auto did not say exactly what broke but alluded to timing belt area. My timing belts had been replaced, including tensioner about 10,000km earlier.

Now I'm unsure if it was the infamous bracket or the chain that let go.

Left a bad taste in my mouth after having that area replaced only 10,000km beforehand.

I can imagine it would be a bad feeling. Does sound like there are two potential failure modes at risk here. More than just the infamous oil housing.

[DazzaTD5]

Daz,

Sounds like you are getting a lot of work from blown TdV6's. Have they all been the same failure mode, and what has been the range of km's?

David

prolly most have been the front oil pump housing giving way, the others have been broken crank, one was a broken timing belt that had supposedly been changed, the last one I just done was a broken crank. km range from that early nasty 80,000km through to 200,000km plus. Doesnt seem to be rhyme or reason sometimes.

While that might all sound really terrible/unrelaible or I've got a long cue of Discovery 3, Range Rover Sport models all lined up waiting for new engine, this really isnt the case. I've been working on this model for close to, what 10 years now, so even spreading them out across that time, its one a year, hardly even something worth mentioning to be honest when compared to the amount out there. I'm sure there are plenty of other brands with a hit rate far far worse. As most of my work is word of mouth (customers and within the industry), I'd assume over this time I've gained a reputation of being at least a mildly decent repairer which prolly adds to me getting more jobs than some I guess.

I'm sure Kevin and his boys at Rovertech have done an awful lot more than me and are prolly far better at it.

Overall the Discovery 3 and Range Rover Sport are a great vehicle.

Regards
Daz

[LandyAndy]

Daz.
Are you the bloke who has a Jeep workshop close to where the old Britparts people were????
Andrew

[DazzaTD5]

Daz.
Are you the bloke who has a Jeep workshop close to where the old Britparts people were????
Andrew

Yes that would prolly be me, I work on both Jeep and Land Rover.

Regards
Daz

[LandyAndy]

That makes sense.Ive heard good reports of a shop that fixes both Jeep and Land Rover.You must be the man:cool::cool::cool::cool:
Do you realise we have an area where vendors can post their details????
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/verandah/index5.html
Cheers
Andrew

[DazzaTD5]

As I have said previously 10k to change a engine over is very expensive, even with new pulleys, belts, hoses etc.

Having had it done on my D3 the cost was no where near that. Quite a number in here have had engines swapped over for around the 5-6k mark. If the 10k included new injectors as well then it's starting to sound nearly ok at a stretch.

While I'm not really questioning the price, I couldnt do a change over for that. If I went on the basics of ripping out the broken engine, putting in the used engine and back together, through me it would be $2700.00, so even if I cut it back to $2500, thats what $2500 - 3000 for an engine? Wish I could buy used engines for that.

It will no doubt get to the point where offering a budget change over will happen as the vehicle wont be worth much more than that. But at the moment Ive yet to see anyone offering used engines cheap enough.

Regards
Daz

[PeterOZ]

prolly most have been the front oil pump housing giving way, the others have been broken crank, one was a broken timing belt that had supposedly been changed, the last one I just done was a broken crank. km range from that early nasty 80,000km through to 200,000km plus. Doesnt seem to be rhyme or reason sometimes.

While that might all sound really terrible/unrelaible or I've got a long cue of Discovery 3, Range Rover Sport models all lined up waiting for new engine, this really isnt the case. I've been working on this model for close to, what 10 years now, so even spreading them out across that time, its one a year, hardly even something worth mentioning to be honest when compared to the amount out there. I'm sure there are plenty of other brands with a hit rate far far worse. As most of my work is word of mouth (customers and within the industry), I'd assume over this time I've gained a reputation of being at least a mildly decent repairer which prolly adds to me getting more jobs than some I guess.

I'm sure Kevin and his boys at Rovertech have done an awful lot more than me and are prolly far better at it.

Overall the Discovery 3 and Range Rover Sport are a great vehicle.

Regards
Daz


just a question on the engine swaps. I recently had mine replaced by an indie LR specialst. Sine then there are lots of "groans & creaking " noises, apprant when cornering or backing out of the drive. Not sure if it is the body rubber mounts not seated properly or is suspension not quite reseated after hanging down which is what the LR repaire told me, said they lubed the bushes and see how you go. In other words dont annoy us with "frivolous" complaints. After dropping $13k I'm not happy about all these noises, sounds like a graveyard full of goulls!! :twisted: :angel:



thoughts on what it could be and how to fix it?

[DazzaTD5]

just a question on the engine swaps. I recently had mine replaced by an indie LR specialst. Sine then there are lots of "groans & creaking " noises, apprant when cornering or backing out of the drive. Not sure if it is the body rubber mounts not seated properly or is suspension not quite reseated after hanging down which is what the LR repaire told me, said they lubed the bushes and see how you go. In other words dont annoy us with "frivolous" complaints. After dropping $13k I'm not happy about all these noises, sounds like a graveyard full of goulls!! :twisted: :angel:



thoughts on what it could be and how to fix it?

I don't comment on how other repairers do work nor can I know what they do.
But before I lower the body back on its main body to chassis mounts I do give the rubbers a quick look at, clean and spray with a silicone spray thats safe to use on rubber/plastics. I also use the silicone spray on all the plastic fittings and mounts.
The main body to chassis mounts do have a torque setting, so should be seated once torqued.
Older D3/RRS I don't reuse the push in plastic retainers that hold all the inner guards as on older vehicles its quicker for me to simply knock the tops off them for removal, either way I wouldnt have thought this would cause an issue to reuse them, its just time saving not to.

For the odd customer that has concerns (especially on a D4 or new RRS) about removing of the body to do repairs, apart from the fact this is by design. I do say that once the body has been refitted it will be to an equal standard (new vehicles) or better than it was (older vehicles). I've not had any body noise issues, but prolly due to the above reasons. It's not the sort of after the fact issue I want when doing these jobs, as your example, mechanically it might be perfect, yet you are not overly happy with it all.

IF and I say if this happened to one of my jobs, I'd prolly look at lifting the body again, or maybe unbolting the main mounts and lifting a few mm, which should be possible without complete trim removal and then give the the mounts a clean and spray, but as I said, its not for me to say what should and shouldnt be done at this point.

Regards
Daz

[PeterOZ]

thanks mate. I don't they are too interested to be honest. They did say they rechecked the bolts and they were all tight but whetehr they spray with a silicone lube or not I don't know.


I just know it sounds awful and I'm not happy. I'll raide it with them again as I was wanting suspension work done. Dissapointing as I'm a long term customer. :cool:

[Silver Surfer]

Hi there. I have a 2012 Territory engine in my D3. I have done 40000km on it since Jan. There is only 1 difference that I am aware of that can be an issue and that is the injector pump. Ford and LR changed the pump at some stage. My suggestion is buy a new pump to suit your vehicle, buy Low km ford engine and go for it. If you can confirm the pump is the same great but that may not be easy. I paid 4K for the engine with 50000 on it. Wiring is all the same. No difference.

[PeterOZ]

MY08 D3 here. Just had a low km Territory engine fitted withonly 12,000km on it. Have only racked up about another 2,000km since.


No issues with the installation except now the body or suspension groans and creaks. Maybe I have halloween spooks in it :angel::twisted:

[TerryO]

While I'm not really questioning the price, I couldnt do a change over for that. If I went on the basics of ripping out the broken engine, putting in the used engine and back together, through me it would be $2700.00, so even if I cut it back to $2500, thats what $2500 - 3000 for an engine? Wish I could buy used engines for that.

It will no doubt get to the point where offering a budget change over will happen as the vehicle wont be worth much more than that. But at the moment Ive yet to see anyone offering used engines cheap enough.

Regards
Daz


Hi Daz, if you read back the op's original posts, which might have been in another thread he started on this topic when his Disco first broke down, from memory he said he was getting charged $10k for the change over plus the engine cost.

After reading what I wrote in later emails I can see why you are getting confused over what I meant, when I said the change over at $10k was to much and when I referred to others having had it done for $5-6k.

You took it that I had included the engine for $5-6k which I had not. I was merely talking about the labour and extras etc like belts, hoses etc. The price's you are quoting if you did the change over are very reasonable to say the least and backs up what I was saying that the quote he got for $10k for the labour (change over) was to much.

[DazzaTD5]

Hi Daz, if you read back the op's original posts, which might have been in another thread he started on this topic when his Disco first broke down, from memory he said he was getting charged $10k for the change over plus the engine cost.

After reading what I wrote in later emails I can see why you are getting confused over what I meant, when I said the change over at $10k was to much and when I referred to others having had it done for $5-6k.

You took it that I had included the engine for $5-6k which I had not. I was merely talking about the labour and extras etc like belts, hoses etc. The price's you are quoting if you did the change over are very reasonable to say the least and backs up what I was saying that the quote he got for $10k for the labour (change over) was to much.

Ah ok fair call, now the prices look about right. honestly I do think there are engine change jobs I dont get simply because what I am quoting and someone else is quoting, is two different things.

Ive not done a "on the cheap" change yet, for me, when its a $40k to say $60K of Range Rover, everything gets checked and replaced as required.
For some oddness i have, I've started taking pictures of these jobs.
https://www.facebook.com/aztech4x4/photos/pcb.916678918404924/916677968405019/'type=3&theater

Eventually the D3 will become an option for a quick cheap change. I wouldnt mind doing a few straight cheap change overs as there is a huge amount of time involved in stripping ancillary parts, cleaning and fitting. But hrmm then again....

Regards
Daz

[DonDownunder]

The root mode of failure was the collapse of the co-drive chain between the two cams on the passenger side head
I have some pics of the Chain failure. It is interesting to note that the failure was on a single hardened link pin and it looks like at a joint link or a timing point as the link is an anodized blue color.
From my observations I am of the belief that the pin ultimately failed after a progressive stress fracture which may of existed for some time and possible relates to the manufacture process (heat treatment etc) 104439

104440

[kodakman7]

Yes Don, those colored links are timing links to time the cams. I guess there will always be just random failures- you see it on all makes- maybe LR owners are more social and sharing!!. We are just about to lift the body on our second D3 to do an engine swap. My original moter - with only 75K on it - had the HT bolt which holds the timing belt tensioner fail in Oct after I replaced the belt and tensioner in May!! I put a new fully dressed engine in mine -EU4 spec- with new injectors, turbo and EGR's. Just finished rebuilding my original motor with some heads I got from Dazza afterwards and about to put it in another D3 I bought with a stuffed motor- as yet undiagnosed but maybe seized or hydraulic lock. Reports were it was due to bad fuel!!! Anyway, can confirm Dazzas thoughts- lifting the body is the only way to go and gives you the chance to deal with other hard to get at items ie rear upper suspension arms. I am lucky I belong to an enthusiast club which has a workshop, hoist, engine stands etc available so quite do-able if you have the time and inclination.

[Silver Surfer]

The engines and electronics are the same on all gents. Where people have mainly come unstuck is using a late model Ford engine (because they are cheap and readily available) on an early (pre 09) LR. But,,, if you get a complete 09 LR motor for an earlier model that doesn't work either because,,,, it's the same as the late model Ford.
There is only one problem the injector pump from the late model won't communicate. Swap the pump. Change the sump over/swap. Swap the pulleys around on the front and way you go. People should charge 4-5k max for the work if they are fair. My engine was 2012 with 50000km on it. 4K. Complete with turbo etc. I have heard the injectors are different but mine have not been changed. I have done 90000km on it now. No probs.
We should be able to do swaps for under 10k really.