The resurrection of 'pat'

[LoveB]

Alright, as some of you know I have purchased a 1993 Defender 90 with the 2.5 non turbo diesel on here.... I know the rules so heres pics before questions.

first time I saw it in person
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/447.jpg

loading onto trailer
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/448.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/449.jpg


swapped tow cars back to defender

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/450.jpg

first drive and it drives upto 80k alright. not really anything on offer above that.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/451.jpg


home sweet home

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/452.jpg

Now the plan is basically restore it and give it to my wife as a daily driver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iiCQY1cC58
taking inspiration from the above episode of wheeler dealers...

I want to paint it. spruce up interior and either put an auto V8 or 300tdi auto in it. (wife drives auto)

I suppose first question is regarding the engine... I know the UK defender 90s of that year came out with V8's in them. But as its a personal import (not by me) could I swap a v8 into it without engineering? or I would I need to get it engineered? I imagine if I chose to do a 300tdi swap that I wouldnt need to. But would want somethign quiet and smooth for my wife I suppose.


more below

[LoveB]

good god I cant adjust the size!!!!! lol

anyway second topic, interior and rust issues....

I will just post links below which you can click
http://i.imgur.com/PLdDkjz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sBIy3pI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2jfZ852.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lVA51vw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/klBZqAl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8rGj225.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/c6dhQIl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yzfbGef.jpg

now whats the best way to tackle this rust? just replace the seam cover??


http://i.imgur.com/G3unafx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Sw1kb0E.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/U6XWpi6.jpg

thats mainly it and the worst of it. thats on the outside where the canopy meets the tub. it has similar rust on the inside opposite of where the ones outside is. so 4 spots on the tub.

Bulk head has some bubbles and visible rust on the outer edges just under the windscreen drain. whats the best way to get around that?

I pretty much want to strip the car and send the body panels to be painted in grey. Maybe stornoway gray as my wife wants a similar ish colour to the orkney grey. whats the best way to get it painted? leave body on? but I want interior done too as she said she doesnt want a silver car outside and a red car inside.


or should I strip the panels and send them off to be painted whilst off the vehicle? are these year 90s still as simple as series 1s in terms of getting panels off that I can do it at home and just bring panels to the painter?

the rear cross member is alright. has a few flakes here and there. I might just scrub and use converter if necessary but not really looking at redoing the chassis. maybe just a clean and spray where possible.

rear diff bangs when shifting (when you get shifting right its quiet) I'm guessing thats due to bushes being worn or something?

when driving it sounds ok. probably a little more metally grindy than I would like but I'm comparing it to a 2013 defender. other than that I cant really hear anything over the engine noise. LOL


heater doesnt work so need to look into that. I am also interested in putting an A/c system for it. Would one out of a tdi/td5 defender work?I would need to install the blower under the dash too. can I still get a dash for this even? still has original keys to start it and for doors however doors dont seem to align properly. could be as simple as an alignment as theres no rust so I'll look into saving them.


I'll post more questions here as they cross my mind!!!

[Phil B]

good god I cant adjust the size!!!!! lol

anyway second topic, interior and rust issues....

I will just post links below which you can click
http://i.imgur.com/PLdDkjz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sBIy3pI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2jfZ852.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lVA51vw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/klBZqAl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8rGj225.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/c6dhQIl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yzfbGef.jpg

now whats the best way to tackle this rust? just replace the seam cover??


http://i.imgur.com/G3unafx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Sw1kb0E.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/U6XWpi6.jpg

thats mainly it and the worst of it. thats on the outside where the canopy meets the tub. it has similar rust on the inside opposite of where the ones outside is. so 4 spots on the tub.

Bulk head has some bubbles and visible rust on the outer edges just under the windscreen drain. whats the best way to get around that?

I pretty much want to strip the car and send the body panels to be painted in grey. Maybe stornoway gray as my wife wants a similar ish colour to the orkney grey. whats the best way to get it painted? leave body on? but I want interior done too as she said she doesnt want a silver car outside and a red car inside.


or should I strip the panels and send them off to be painted whilst off the vehicle? are these year 90s still as simple as series 1s in terms of getting panels off that I can do it at home and just bring panels to the painter?

the rear cross member is alright. has a few flakes here and there. I might just scrub and use converter if necessary but not really looking at redoing the chassis. maybe just a clean and spray where possible.

rear diff bangs when shifting (when you get shifting right its quiet) I'm guessing thats due to bushes being worn or something?

when driving it sounds ok. probably a little more metally grindy than I would like but I'm comparing it to a 2013 defender. other than that I cant really hear anything over the engine noise. LOL


heater doesnt work so need to look into that. I am also interested in putting an A/c system for it. Would one out of a tdi/td5 defender work?I would need to install the blower under the dash too. can I still get a dash for this even? still has original keys to start it and for doors however doors dont seem to align properly. could be as simple as an alignment as theres no rust so I'll look into saving them.


I'll post more questions here as they cross my mind!!!


Hi and welcome to Land Rover land !!
Great looking 90 you have and the rust issues are very minor compared to some !!
The holes in the photos all appear to be in the steel tray capping, which is still available new AFAIK and definitely second hand.


My preference with painting is to take panels off and paint them individually and then put them back on. You rightly pointed out it is just like a series in the way it is assembled, just nuts and bolts.
Beware of spraying different batches of parts at different times though. Unless you have a very accurate paint batching system you will get color variations, particularly with grey !! Great color though.


You will find plenty of info on here about the "rear diff bangs". It is more than likely the drive flanges that are designed to wear out first. When they do you will get drivetrain backlash but they are easy and cheap to replace (about $60ea) for the flanges.


As for the ac and heater that is a little more complicated and I would suggest you look at getting her painted and on the road first.
Again there is plenty of info on here. Just do a Google search for Defender air con install or heater repair.


Good luck and please keep going now that you have started this thread.


Regards,

[LoveB]

Awesome. it has rego till the 28th so I'll drive it around till then. not 100% fussed on a/c. sure summer is coming but thats what windows are for hey?

now to decide between v8 and diesel!!


once rego runs out I'll start stripping it apart for paint and clean the chassis up while I'm at it. it'll either be silver or white. I want to put a kahn kit on it down the road.

[Toxic_Avenger]

That vehicle was a steal!
As for the pic size, I find holding the control button and scrolling the mouse wheel works well enough for me!

Give it a red-hot go and keep us updated on the progress!

[Landybitz]

Nice 90 that one.

I was looking at a air con unit for the V8, second hand i was quoted $2800, plus 3 days they said to fit it. And theres different ones depending on what engine you have so they said.

[LoveB]

Good Lord. Unless I find a wrecked county with a/c I suppose. Am I better off just going 300tdi?

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using AULRO mobile app

[Dervish]

now whats the best way to tackle this rust? just replace the seam cover??


You have to replace the capping. Having done this, I can tell you you're in for a pig of a time. Here's a walkthrough, it's even on a 90 (http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=55697). Being a 90, it'll be easier than a 110; but actually finding a replacement capping to suit the 90 here in Oz might prove tough.

[The ho har's]

Followed this on facebook and here. Wish I was 10 seconds earlier, always wanted a 90. Have an 88 so all is good.

Mrs hh:angel:

[rangieman]

Good Lord. Unless I find a wrecked county with a/c I suppose. Am I better off just going 300tdi?

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using AULRO mobile app

Yep throw it in the too hard basket and sell it to me :angel:
Mate id sell me leftie for that;)
Well done and good luck with the project:thumbsup:

[Dervish]

I suppose first question is regarding the engine... I know the UK defender 90s of that year came out with V8's in them. But as its a personal import (not by me) could I swap a v8 into it without engineering? or I would I need to get it engineered? I imagine if I chose to do a 300tdi swap that I wouldnt need to. But would want somethign quiet and smooth for my wife I suppose.


Both engine swaps will require engineering because, unless I'm mistaken, in both cases the engine mounts have to be changed.


Good Lord. Unless I find a wrecked county with a/c I suppose. Am I better off just going 300tdi?


I'm not sure I've understood this, but aircon shouldn't influence your motor choice one way or the other; compressors can be fitted to both 300Tdi and V8. Irrespective of what motor you use, you should be after the Australian-only 300Tdi or TD5-era Defender under dash A/C, not County A/C. County A/C would block off your dashboard vents, and I think you wouldn't want that.

...then again, I wouldn't fit A/C at all and I think the 90 in that Wheeler Dealers episode was far nicer before they got to it :(

[debruiser]

if it's a 2.5D then a 200tdi should just drop right on in there... Not sure on the 300tdi. google is your friend.

I love the 90! Wish I had started with that rather than the 88" i've now got....

[LoveB]

I've decided to go the 300tdi auto route...

can anyone link me to where I may be able to find replacement pieces for my rusted bits???

how far sohuld I strip it? wife wants a different colour but I dont really want to remove the whole bulkhead. Dont know how I will paint it tho lol

[The ho har's]

I've decided to go the 300tdi auto route...

can anyone link me to where I may be able to find replacement pieces for my rusted bits???

how far sohuld I strip it? wife wants a different colour but I dont really want to remove the whole bulkhead. Dont know how I will paint it tho lol

You can buy those bits brand new:) We can help you out but you probably don't want to travel to Qld;) Let us know if we can help?

Mrs hh:angel:

[Landybitz]

I've decided to go the 300tdi auto route...

can anyone link me to where I may be able to find replacement pieces for my rusted bits???

how far sohuld I strip it? wife wants a different colour but I dont really want to remove the whole bulkhead. Dont know how I will paint it tho lol

We can supply you with OEM parts, these are manufactured using the original jigs for some of the parts, and made in the UK. ( Some things still are )

Can also supply 300 TDI etc

Postage no problem we export world wide.

[LoveB]

Postage shouldn't be too bad?? Lol

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using AULRO mobile app

[LoveB]

Good stuff. I'm undecided whether to keep hardtop or go soft top. Probably keeping hard top really. I'll find out what I need once I have a better dig through it!

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using AULRO mobile app

[MrLandy]

I reckon you should keep it as original as possible...I love the red paint patina! I'd focus on sweet mechanicals and do the bare minimum to the body 😎 Don't kill the charm and character of a very cool 90!

[LoveB]

unfortunately my wife will only want to keep it as her daily driver if its spruced up. Id like to keep it as it is but a bit of sacrifice to keep a 90 is something I would consider :)

[MrLandy]

...sounds like she might prefer a shiny new 90 😉

[LoveB]

bought her a shiny new 110. but while the auto conversion for them is still new and expensive I will restore an old one to suit :p

[MrLandy]

...I'm just jealous...would love that little red beasty! Enjoy

[Andrew86]

unfortunately my wife will only want to keep it as her daily driver if its spruced up. Id like to keep it as it is but a bit of sacrifice to keep a 90 is something I would consider :)

You can spruce it up while still honouring its past. Why not return it to its former glory and paint it Royal Mail red with white wheels?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/10/400.jpg

It'd be unique and totally cool :cool:

[LoveB]

I was thinking sticking to red actually and just having a royal mail sticker remade... either those white wheels or d1 alloys. but I wouldnt mind keeping the wheels on the bonnet. I still want the rear to be a van too. I cant seem to find any pics of a 90 though

[The ho har's]

Is that a 90 van? we have one here:) well sort of:) Our friends have one.

Mrs hh:angel:

[LoveB]

yes a 90 panel van without alpine windows! :D

[steane]

I reckon you'd be able to buy a near new Puma 90 with what it will cost to do this project properly, but that wouldn't be anywhere near as cool as this old girl! An exciting project :cool:

[LoveB]

really? :o

I didnt think I'd have to spend that much :-( just paint and a freshen up really.

[steane]

Be nice if it was that simple and maybe it is with this 90 but if it's going to be done right as a reliable daily driver for the wife then I think the list of repair, replace and fix could potentially be something like this;

300tdi reco
Auto conversion
Oil, filters, hoses, belts, coolant
Air-con, wiring, plumbing, gassing etc
Alternator
Starter
Radiator
Brake master
Brake discs and pads
Rear disc conversion
Rebuild brake calipers
Rebush suspension
Shocks
Swivel hub rebuilds
Fix TC and diff oil leaks
Potentially a TC rebuild
Possibly diff issues
Power steering pump
Steering box
Exhaust
Prop shaft unis
Wheel bearings
Hubs and half shafts
Replace instruments with ones that can be seen at night
Wheels and tyres
Remove roof, side panels, guards
Fix rust
Paint prep
Paint
Windscreen
Windscreen rubber
Window and door rubbers
Wiring issues
Headlight upgrade kit
Seats
Seat extension rails
Bulkhead removal kit


And probably 100 other bits and pieces you'll come across. Reco 300tdi and auto with conversion parts including what you need for the Trans tunnel and interior would have to be the best part of 10k.

Defenders with worn bits and bobs don't drive nice and most of the bits and bobs are worn on old defenders. It's why you can buy neglected ones cheap...sometimes.

It may be that this old 90 is a gem and you've got an easier project on your hands than my doomsday scenario. Hopefully!

[MrLandy]

...yeah sounds like a bit more than a spruce up needed...Steane not too far off I'd reckon, but I'm not a qualified mechanic.

New engine, auto conversion and aircon are all pretty big ticket items to begin with. ...Reckon I'd begin with the engine, change all oils, check/fix brakes, then see how she runs.

...Then get quotes for auto conversion and aircon & reality check. Not wanting to turn you off, but it looks like a big commitment to fully renovate this beasty.

Hence my encouragement to enjoy the patina and character rather than attempt to return to former glory. :);)

[debruiser]

I bought a 2nd hand 200tdi - $2000
new turbo - $1200
Recon R380 - $3000
Recon LT230 - $1600

and easy just spent $7800! There was a also a folder full of receipts for other bits and pieces, But maybe you don't need all that.... just what I've had to shell out of late/ been quoted. You at least have a coiler... I was putting all that into a series....

[Phil B]

LoveB
Don't be put off by all this
At the end of the day any 22 year old vehicle will be more of a hobby than a necessity, particularly a Land Rover. They all need work but that is exactly the point
How much would golf cost you every year? $5k? And what have you got to show for it after a couple of years? Nothing.
Maybe it won't be the daily driver that you want straight away but it eventually could be.
Get out there and enjoy it! That's what's it's about.
Regards

[debruiser]

LoveB
Don't be put off by all this
At the end of the day any 22 year old vehicle will be more of a hobby than a necessity, particularly a Land Rover. They all need work but that is exactly the point
How much would golf cost you every year? $5k? And what have you got to show for it after a couple of years? Nothing.
Maybe it won't be the daily driver that you want straight away but it eventually could be.
Get out there and enjoy it! That's what's it's about.
Regards

Agreed completely. My series is supposed to be my 2nd car. $25 000 later is still not registered but I've enjoyed working on it and when it finally gets on the road it'll b awesome

Sent from my SM-A300Y using AULRO mobile app

[steane]

I agree as well. $40,000+ later (doing all of the work myself) my 300TDi Deefer could be put into service as a daily driver for the next 20 years. Instead it will be used for remote travel and weekend drives.

But pays to know what you are up against. Lot's of people buy old Deefers and think they'll be an easy/cheap project, when the reality is old Deefers are generally completely worn out and need to be rebuilt IF you want a usable and reliable end result.

I spent the time and money without a second thought and would do it again in a heartbeat. Great project that is lots of fun and very therapeutic. And you end up with a classic Deefer or 90 or 110 that is all Land Rover and very cool :cool:

The values of the 'older' ones are on the rise around the world, so one day it might be worth what it cost, maybe. No way I'd sell it though :D

So yes, get stuck in and enjoy but keep eyes wide open!

[LoveB]

Not too put off really. I mean.... I do now have 4 defenders among my other landies. So who am I to really think of being practical with my spending lol.

I've driven the car around. it drives good really. brakes work fantastic. its just freshening it up. its done 80,000miles which is 160km i think, which all in all is low for its age I gather. I dont mind it taking a little while to do. I just want a defender 90 in my spec done to look new-ish knowing you can no longer get them :)

[LR V8]

Just over 133K km Paulo.

( miles /6 x10 gives approx km)

Cheers,

Pete

[LoveB]

i suppose one thing that will stop this from happening is if i end up buying the td5 90 on here and converting that to auto lol

[manic]

Nice find!

I restored a 90 panel van of similar vintage a few years back. I cheated a little and had it done in the UK before shipping it over.

I had rust in the bulkhead and steel body cappings. Stripping down the body is simple bolts and rivets. If you are looking for a good result without spending a fortune or time is limited I would take all the body panels/doors off and leave just the tub, bulkhead and seatbox in place.

The panels that come off, you strip, clean up, send out for paint. The bulkhead, seatbox, tub is cleaned up in situ. Rust removed, patches welded. The inside of the tub and seatbox you can paint yourself or leave as is. You don't see the paint inside when its covered in mats, and your wife will only see the underside if she is doing the servicing.

I recommend getting the exmoor/wright moulded rubber mat. This covers all the visible interior paint on the bulkhead/seatbox. Rubber mats in the back will also hide any effort you put in painting the interior.

Mudstuff do some plastic interior panels for van sides and the rear door which tidy up the interior nicely.

When you have re-assembled the body work drive it to the body shop and have them spray the outer visible sections of the bulkhead and rear tub. This will also cover the new rivets, tub cappings.

When you lift the bonnet you will see the old red on the bulkhead behind the engine but how often will your wife look in there?

For the cappings, you can buy new from UK. Or if your cappings are not too bad you can blast, galvanise and paint. All my steel cappings were galvanised, painted and riveted back on. My bulkhead was removed and galvanised but there was no time to paint before re-assembly so just the outer visible sections were painted to finish.

Your doors look good, mine were bubbling so I got hold of some Puma doors which are all steel and do not suffer from this reaction. That's an option, but if they are good just strip them, clear out the rust , paint and fill the tube sections with rust prevention wax of choice.



Motor: 200tdi is the go - but if hard to source or not ideal position for the autobox you will need to weld new mounts to your chassis for the 300tdi. The 200tdi drops straight in and sits further back over the axle which is a bonus, but the cylinder heads cannot be replaced with a new one if you overheat and warp/crack one.

Looking forward to see how you get on.

Here's mine on Morton island last week - just clocked 30,000 tough Australian kilometres . Well worth the effort :)

[LoveB]

Awesome. Have someone offering me a done up 200tdi and just found 300tdi with auto currently in an rrc. The 200tdi tho has been rebuilt with new turbo in the last 20000km
Sent from my HTC_0P6B using AULRO mobile app


Edit: my doors seem ok but seem to not sit flush. Any adjustments I can check? Or do I just need new rubbers? They seem to be bent lol I know there's a bit of a dint on the rhr quarter. It's dented outwards tho

[MrLandy]

More character and patina, love it. You can adjust door lock strike plate quite a lot to get doors to sit tight. Obviously if it is bent though it's just one if his scars. ...sounds like you have an engine already. 👍 ...some new tyres would do wonders for his stance.

[MrLandy]

Nice find!

I restored a 90 panel van of similar vintage a few years back. I cheated a little and had it done in the UK before shipping it over.

I had rust in the bulkhead and steel body cappings. Stripping down the body is simple bolts and rivets. If you are looking for a good result without spending a fortune or time is limited I would take all the body panels/doors off and leave just the tub, bulkhead and seatbox in place.

The panels that come off, you strip, clean up, send out for paint. The bulkhead, seatbox, tub is cleaned up in situ. Rust removed, patches welded. The inside of the tub and seatbox you can paint yourself or leave as is. You don't see the paint inside when its covered in mats, and your wife will only see the underside if she is doing the servicing.

I recommend getting the exmoor/wright moulded rubber mat. This covers all the visible interior paint on the bulkhead/seatbox. Rubber mats in the back will also hide any effort you put in painting the interior.

Mudstuff do some plastic interior panels for van sides and the rear door which tidy up the interior nicely.

When you have re-assembled the body work drive it to the body shop and have them spray the outer visible sections of the bulkhead and rear tub. This will also cover the new rivets, tub cappings.

When you lift the bonnet you will see the old red on the bulkhead behind the engine but how often will your wife look in there?

For the cappings, you can buy new from UK. Or if your cappings are not too bad you can blast, galvanise and paint. All my steel cappings were galvanised, painted and riveted back on. My bulkhead was removed and galvanised but there was no time to paint before re-assembly so just the outer visible sections were painted to finish.

Your doors look good, mine were bubbling so I got hold of some Puma doors which are all steel and do not suffer from this reaction. That's an option, but if they are good just strip them, clear out the rust , paint and fill the tube sections with rust prevention wax of choice.



Motor: 200tdi is the go - but if hard to source or not ideal position for the autobox you will need to weld new mounts to your chassis for the 300tdi. The 200tdi drops straight in and sits further back over the axle which is a bonus, but the cylinder heads cannot be replaced with a new one if you overheat and warp/crack one.

Looking forward to see how you get on.

Here's mine on Morton island last week - just clocked 30,000 tough Australian kilometres . Well worth the effort :)

Impressive work 👍.
I'm heading over to Morton before Xmas, how are the beach roads? Any tips?

Cheers,

[LoveB]

I might actually end up moving the 90 onto a friend.

having realized that when my wife does fall pregnant and have a child I will need to move it on anyway as it has no rear seats. LOL I will probably finish my series 1 and just buy a puma 90 and convert that with the ashcroft kit

[manic]

I might actually end up moving the 90 onto a friend.

having realized that when my wife does fall pregnant and have a child I will need to move it on anyway as it has no rear seats. LOL I will probably finish my series 1 and just buy a puma 90 and convert that with the ashcroft kit

Erm, so you are going to replace a 90 that will soon be redundant with a more expensive 90 that will soon be redundant :confused:

[manic]

Impressive work 👍.
I'm heading over to Morton before Xmas, how are the beach roads? Any tips?

Cheers,

Was my first 4x4 island trip. Everyone seemed to have maxtrax or equivalent recovery boards so I was convinced I would be looking foolish with a shovel at some point.

No problems though, we went all about the north half of the island along the beaches at high and low tide (hard/soft). 18PSI on 255/85's and kept it low range. No need for speed just steady momentum.

Plenty of SUVs on lower profile tyres and I didn't see anyone get stuck. But I was only there for a taster - two days!

You cant round the northern point on the beach anywhere close to high tide. There was a waist deep crossing blocking our progress that will only tempt the foolish.

Inland tracks are pretty bumpy from camper trailers but not very soft so you can go slow and save yourself a pounding.

Top tip: keep the vehicle out of the water!


Enjoy, its a beautiful place :BigThumb:

[LoveB]

I'm a land rover owner. being practical and logical doesnt always go into the equation.lol

in all seriousness though I will finish my series one and just give my wife the disco to drive around in.

[MrLandy]

I might actually end up moving the 90 onto a friend.

having realized that when my wife does fall pregnant and have a child I will need to move it on anyway as it has no rear seats. LOL I will probably finish my series 1 and just buy a puma 90 and convert that with the ashcroft kit

Surely we're friends by now LoveB? 😊

[LoveB]

every landy owner is a friend!!! lol

i did give first option to a mate though. if he falls through ill give you a yell