Help me choose a Rangie

[disco dan]

Ok I have three rangies two I own one is for sale by my brother in law. I'm looking at options on which one to buy.

First one is. 91 auto 3.9 very neat and tidy but stock as 250000 ks

Second is my baby. 87 with the works front tube bar lift coils and body upgrade arms for rear and all steering 33s locked 24 spline 3.9 serp and a r380 manual. Bad interior getting tired rust in some doors and leaks. Only runs on lpg. However I think gearing is upgraded 400000ks but not standard engine and unsure when it was changed

Third is a 93 vogue lifted body and 3" coils 35s locked rear upgraded arms and steering. very nice car however abs is playing up could be a sensor and stalling issue when stopping in drive 250000 ks

So which would you choose. It will be my daily promo truck for my business and for short trips 4x4 when I can moderate to hard. What would you go for.

Thanks

[DoubleChevron]

Keep the '87 as a ****ter you bash up off road ..... stick it on a club permit :D .... Merge the other two into the best thing you can build, I'd keep it stock as a rock .... you see every offroad "improvement" will make it less capable onroad where it'll spend 99.9% of its time. You will probably find there bad stuffed in all the same places though ( :) ) ... ie all the same interior bits will be trashed. I'd pick the one with the best most rust free body as the base.

I'm great at making suggestions... If only I could find the time to do some of them myself. I have about 5 cars in various states of decay that I drive around as much as possible with the intention of "fixing oneday when I have time ... and $$$". At least I have the fun on tinkering with them and driving them until that day comes :)

seeya,
Shane L.

[Mercguy]

I'll take the 93.
and your 87.
I already have the 91 :p:D

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Looking at it from a different angle--
pick the one thats a better advertisment.


or,
the stock car (with some business money) will only improve in value.

[disco dan]

Yeah after today the 93 was playing up bad with the abs locking up and engine stalling so not happy with it. My white one is nice outside just interior is getting old. Probably some slight engine work and it will be great. The red one is nice but stock so not a stand out car compared to the white one.

[DoubleChevron]

Yeah after today the 93 was playing up bad with the abs locking up and engine stalling so not happy with it. My white one is nice outside just interior is getting old. Probably some slight engine work and it will be great. The red one is nice but stock so not a stand out car compared to the white one.

I rekcon the best fix for old cars with ABS .... is it's removal :) Just swap the brake parts from a model without ABS :wasntme:

[disco dan]

Yeah also thought that too as have it all here with three cars

[blackrangie]

The body of the 91 or 93 with the goods of the 87, you could remove abs and run hydroboost brakes

[disco dan]

The body of the 91 or 93 with the goods of the 87, you could remove abs and run hydroboost brakes


What's the hydro boost

[blackrangie]

What's the hydro boost

http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d4944_Hydroboost_kit.html

[Vern]

For $2300, why would you bother!
Am sure you can get it cheaper if you shop around

[disco dan]

I think I've decided to stick with my trusty white 87 unless I can get someone to test the abs and it's an easy fix then the 93 would be the go. As for hydro it looks good but yeah price kills it

[blackrangie]

For $2300, why would you bother!
Am sure you can get it cheaper if you shop around

Have you checked how much it is to rebuild the ABS system?

Why bother? No ABS, No ABS computer,No ABS wiring, Racecar quality brakes(if combined with upgraded rotors), if you can find it elsewhere at a cheaper price adapted for Rangies great :thumbup: however i dont know of any other companies that have a kit for Landies or have installed it on multiple cars. When you look at the price of fixing a broken ABS system or even long term maintenence of the system Hydroboost is a viavle option IMO, Im running it on my 93.

[blackrangie]

I think I've decided to stick with my trusty white 87 unless I can get someone to test the abs and it's an easy fix then the 93 would be the go. As for hydro it looks good but yeah price kills it


If you want to keep the 87, if the rust is fixable, I would get it soon or find nice rust free panels/doors and fix up interior. But all that might be costly.

But if it was me i would be looking at a cheap low ks stock doner car to move all the goods over to. Have you considered the option of combining 2 of your existing cars?

87 with 91 get your exterior, you end up with interior and engine fixed and end up with low ks with all the fruit, newer model.

Or 87 with 93 you end up with your exterior, interior fixed, newer model, just abs and stalling issue to sort. Low ks, All the fruit and lots of leftover fruit to sell.

[disco dan]

If you want to keep the 87, if the rust is fixable, I would get it soon or find nice rust free panels/doors and fix up interior. But all that might be costly.

But if it was me i would be looking at a cheap low ks stock doner car to move all the goods over to. Have you considered the option of combining 2 of your existing cars?

87 with 91 get your exterior, you end up with interior and engine fixed and end up with low ks with all the fruit, newer model.

Or 87 with 93 you end up with your exterior, interior fixed, newer model, just abs and stalling issue to sort. Low ks, All the fruit and lots of leftover fruit to sell.


Yeah see I just can't decide haha. My only real issue with the 93 is the abs. Also my 87 drives nicer but that's due to my suspension setup and upgraded arms. The 91 is a nice car and nice to drive a great body and runs on fuel no abs and starts and runs fine. I think it comes down to being a bit sentimentalwith my white one. But could keep it for parts

[DieselLSE]

>My only real issue with the 93 is the abs

Disco, I don't think this is right.

From your posts in another thread, I reckon your problem is with hubs and bearings. If they all need replacing (and the swivel pin housings need overhauling) it will cost heaps, particularly if you use genuine parts (as I did recently as the aftermarket stuff was mostly problematic).

There's no question that your ABS needs some attention and the correct seating of the sensor units, but apart from any costs associated with new disks and pads you can get away with overhauling the entire system (the booster can only be superficially cleaned) with time and heaps of brake fluid! You can get second hand parts if needed (through this forum) with the going price for the complete system forward of the firewall being $200. Plus you'll almost certainly need a new accumulator ($250 imported).

The Hydroboost system looks a more appropriate replacement for earlier vacuum assisted Rangies. The LSE WABCO ABS with ETC is a far superior system with the electric pump pressurisng the system to 2700psi and the accumulator providing up to seven brake applications in the event of an engine failure at speed.

Mind you, I am trying to diagnose your car from a thousand miles away, so I may be completely wrong! And I may even not have the right car as you seem to have a backyard full of 'em.:D

[disco dan]

Haha you got me but as you said it does seem like the bearings and hubs I got pricing for the barring at $80 a wheel using Timkin but haven't looked at rebuilding swivel as yet as looks to be in the $300 each

[DieselLSE]

Definitely go for the Timken bearings, but remember you'll almost certainly need new stub axles.

Don't buy anything until you've stripped the axles down and inspected all the components including the axles, CV joints etc. You may be able to salvage some bits from your other cars, but I doubt it as they will all have worn the same.

You might find that the overhaul does not make financial sense. Sometimes you can buy complete axles assemblies in good condition.

Don't buy swivel pin housing overhaul kits. I only used the gaskets, large seals and retaining plates from the two I bought. The other seals were rubbish, the lower bearings were rubbish, the thrust bearings were doubtful and the Railco bush was doubtful (but so was the genuine which had me perplexed). And I didn't use the one-shot grease as I prefer using diff oil.

You need to be reasonably mechanically minded to do this job and have access to the manual (note that there are differences between years and ABS and non-ABS vehicles) and be able to follow the instructions, particularly as it relates to bearing adjustment and swivel pin preload (requiring shims and it's handy to have a micrometer). I'd recommend both chassis and axles stands if you don't have a hoist. You'll also need a hub bearing adjuster nut tool which will cost about $20 (and should be carried in every series Landrover/Defender/Discovery 1 and classic Rangie toolkit).

Finally, don't think that the job will end there. You'll probably need new tie rod ends, steering damper and panhard rod bushes and perhaps radius arm bushes and goodness knows what else. The upside is that the chassis will be good for another 23 years. Probably.

[disco dan]

Yeah see this is why I'm steering away from the 93 as its a car I don't know. If I fixed all this who knows what else is wrong. Also I haven't bought it as its my brother in laws wants a few $$$$. Where as my white one I know what's wrong and the interior is a little shabby but nothing I really care about until I get in a leather vogue haha. As for the 91 it's unknown also but runs fine and is neat. I own the 91 and 87 so financial sense would be to mix them.

[disco dan]

So decided to go with the 91 as not as much rust in it compared to white one. Will swap parts over from the white ones and check and clean each part make it a nice job instead of a rush.

[dungarover]

You should enjoy the 91 Rangie, last of the non abs and air suspended classics (IMO the best era of classic as a great all-rounder :cool:).

Trav

[Mercguy]

I agree. It's the reason I bought JA613937. :D

[blackrangie]

>My only real issue with the 93 is the abs


The Hydroboost system looks a more appropriate replacement for earlier vacuum assisted Rangies. The LSE WABCO ABS with ETC is a far superior system with the electric pump pressurisng the system to 2700psi and the accumulator providing up to seven brake applications in the event of an engine failure at speed.


Hydroboost Back-Up all done with zero electronics.

Similar to the vacuum booster, the hydro-boost is equipped with a backup or reserve in case the source of pressurized fluid is lost. A failure in the power steering system, such as a broken hose, broken power steering pump drive belt, or failed pump, would result in a loss of pressure to both the hydro-boost and steering gear. The hydro-boost uses a high-pressure accumulator to store power steering fluid under pressure in the event of a failure. There are two types of accumulators used, some hydro-boost units use an external accumulator, while others incorporate the accumulator in the power piston. The accumulator could be either of the spring-loaded variety or nitrogen-gas type.

In the event of a loss of pressurized fluid, the accumulator will provide two to three power assisted stops. Upon the first application of the brakes after an engine stall or loss of power steering, you would find approximately 60 to 75% of the normal assist available. If you were to release and apply the brakes again, you would find approximately 30% to 40% assist, then again approximately 10% to 20%, until you have depleted all stored reserve assist. Once you have depleted all of the stored pressure, the brakes will no longer have power assist and will be manual in their operations.

During normal operation, the accumulator is charged by pump pressure though a check valve assembly. The check valve allows fluid into the accumulator, but prevents it from escaping. When the pressure in the power chamber is lost due to a failure, the input rod linkage will override the power piston linkage and cause the check valve to be opened. The open check valve will release the stored fluid in the accumulator into the power chamber which will provide the power assist.

[DoubleChevron]

Hydroboost Back-Up all done with zero electronics.

Similar to the vacuum booster, the hydro-boost is equipped with a backup or reserve in case the source of pressurized fluid is lost. A failure in the power steering system, such as a broken hose, broken power steering pump drive belt, or failed pump, would result in a loss of pressure to both the hydro-boost and steering gear. The hydro-boost uses a high-pressure accumulator to store power steering fluid under pressure in the event of a failure. There are two types of accumulators used, some hydro-boost units use an external accumulator, while others incorporate the accumulator in the power piston. The accumulator could be either of the spring-loaded variety or nitrogen-gas type.

In the event of a loss of pressurized fluid, the accumulator will provide two to three power assisted stops. Upon the first application of the brakes after an engine stall or loss of power steering, you would find approximately 60 to 75% of the normal assist available. If you were to release and apply the brakes again, you would find approximately 30% to 40% assist, then again approximately 10% to 20%, until you have depleted all stored reserve assist. Once you have depleted all of the stored pressure, the brakes will no longer have power assist and will be manual in their operations.

During normal operation, the accumulator is charged by pump pressure though a check valve assembly. The check valve allows fluid into the accumulator, but prevents it from escaping. When the pressure in the power chamber is lost due to a failure, the input rod linkage will override the power piston linkage and cause the check valve to be opened. The open check valve will release the stored fluid in the accumulator into the power chamber which will provide the power assist.

It would need to be a MASSIVE accumulator. accumulators work for brakes, but aren't any good for steering (trust me I know this, I have owned and driven fully hydraulic cars since I was 16years old). They also need contant upkeep. I consider an old accumulator quite unsafe. You see if the start leaking with age they will slowly fill your brakes with air (nitrogen from the other side of the accumulator diaphragm). If they suddenly rupture (which can happen as when they get low on gas, the diaphragm can hit against the sharp edges on the back of the filler plug). If it ruptures it will instantly fill your braking system with massive amounts of nitrogen. Meaning you have no brakes.

[blackrangie]

It would need to be a MASSIVE accumulator. accumulators work for brakes, but aren't any good for steering (trust me I know this, I have owned and driven fully hydraulic cars since I was 16years old). They also need contant upkeep. I consider an old accumulator quite unsafe. You see if the start leaking with age they will slowly fill your brakes with air (nitrogen from the other side of the accumulator diaphragm). If they suddenly rupture (which can happen as when they get low on gas, the diaphragm can hit against the sharp edges on the back of the filler plug). If it ruptures it will instantly fill your braking system with massive amounts of nitrogen. Meaning you have no brakes.

The accumulator is part of the hydroboost unit, its quite small and it is part of the brakes, the power steering system provides the pressure boost.

There are 3 different types of accumulators below, the silver one uses spring pressure not nitrogen.

So you have a backup using accumulator via spring activation, then when that is used you still have manual not assisted brakes, if that fails you have a 4 wheel handbrake ;)

[DoubleChevron]

The accumulator is part of the hydroboost unit, its quite small and it is part of the brakes, the power steering system provides the pressure boost.

There are 3 different types of accumulators below, the silver one uses spring pressure not nitrogen.

So you have a backup using accumulator via spring activation, then when that is used you still have manual not assisted brakes, if that fails you have a 4 wheel handbrake ;)

even if the enigne dies, so long as it's in gear and turning, your pump should still work either way. The accumulator will work if a seperate sytem from the steering (steering will exhaust an accumulator in the blink of an eye as it's low pressure high flow, accumulators work well for high pressure low flow ... ie: brakes).

The hydraulic cars usually have a main system accumulator, a brake accumulator. However the rear suspension circuit is the supply for the rear brakes (if that makes sense, nothing in the boot, next to no rear suspenion pressure, so hardly any pressure for the rear brakes ... .no brake lockup. Throw a loaded car trailer on the back ... massive pressure in the suspension circuit to lift it upto height, so huge pressure to the rear brakes). This also gives you your final emergency brakes. If the pump fails, and the accumulators are exhausted..... if you still have rear suspension height, you will have rear only brakes until the back suspension sinks to it's bumpstops. If you continue driving at that point, your in for a world of hurt :eek:

In the range rover it really shouldn't matter, even if everything fails, you should still have full braking capacity, pedal pressure will just be very high!

seeya,
Shane L.

[blackrangie]

even if the enigne dies, so long as it's in gear and turning, your pump should still work either way. The accumulator will work if a seperate sytem from the steering (steering will exhaust an accumulator in the blink of an eye as it's low pressure high flow, accumulators work well for high pressure low flow ... ie: brakes).

The hydraulic cars usually have a main system accumulator, a brake accumulator. However the rear suspension circuit is the supply for the rear brakes (if that makes sense, nothing in the boot, next to no rear suspenion pressure, so hardly any pressure for the rear brakes ... .no brake lockup. Throw a loaded car trailer on the back ... massive pressure in the suspension circuit to lift it upto height, so huge pressure to the rear brakes). This also gives you your final emergency brakes. If the pump fails, and the accumulators are exhausted..... if you still have rear suspension height, you will have rear only brakes until the back suspension sinks to it's bumpstops. If you continue driving at that point, your in for a world of hurt :eek:

In the range rover it really shouldn't matter, even if everything fails, you should still have full braking capacity, pedal pressure will just be very high!

seeya,
Shane L.

I quess your talking about trucks, im just talkin about gm hydroboost with willwood dual channel master cylinder, seperated res for front/rear circuits allowing front to still work if rear fails and visa vera..would be extremely unlikely to loose fluid to both circuits

[disco dan]

So now I have found a 3.5 89 that has 200000ks on it. Thinking that is low ks and a better engine I'm told. Would that be the better car to build up