18" Tyres on Sand

[Islandnomad]

Need some new tyres for my D2a which unfortunatly has 255/55/R18's on it. I live at the beach and drive on sand a bit. I haven't found these tyres that great in the sand, I also worry that I'll roll them off the rim. Is it possible to go to 255/60/R18, might give me some more sidewall (25mm more I think). Might rub maybe not sure. Any opinions on this as would be a lot better in the sand?

[ozscott]

Mate If you look around a set of 5 16in LR rims can be had for $100-$150. LR factory alloys hold the bead like no other.

Cheers

[Islandnomad]

I've had D2's with 16's before they are great. I think I have the Hurricane 18" wheels which are really nice looking they would have the same bead wouldn't they? All of the D3 and D4's have 18" or 19" wheels how do they go offroad I wonder, they don't maybe?

[rar110]

I would go with 16s on a D2. However if you really like the 18s it shouldn't be a problem with 255/60 or even 265/60 tyres. 265/60s are smaller in diameter than 235/85/16s and some people use that size on a D2. The 265/60/18 is more readily available these are often used on Prados etc.

[Islandnomad]

I've read a thread about Tyre Sizes in Technical Chatter, Slunnie posted this helpful link:Clifton Scientific Text Services, the Netherlands (http://www.clifton.nl/index.html'tyresizes.html)
where they say that 30.5" is the biggest size without adapting the rear wheel carrier, not too worried about that, I suppose its also going to throw out the speedo, I'll use a gps and get used to new speeds. So I guess that either the 30.5" 265/60R18 or 31.6" 265/65R18 is the go, I'll see what I can find thanks.

[sheerluck]

.......All of the D3 and D4's have 18" or 19" wheels how do they go offroad I wonder, they don't maybe?

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

Yep D3s and D4's never go offroad, and all of the pictures in the D3/D4/RRS forum have been faked. :D

[Islandnomad]

Haha just a throw away line about what do they do, as they all seem to come with 18" 19" and 20" wheels and low side wall road tyres as standard which aren't that capable offroad? They all have the same problem, seems they go the 30.5"-31.6" route too!

[sheerluck]

They do come with small sidewalls as standard. But the D3/D4 are a very different beast to a D2. The traction control and Terrain Response functions are very, very good. But that's a bit of a side track from your original post.

[Islandnomad]

Just wondering what the D3/4/RRS people do to make their vehicles more offroad friendly, than persisting with road tyres? Capable machines but need decent rubber offroad (probably the most important thing).

In the back of my mind my 2004 HSE does have ACE, apparently 18" wheels are a lot better for ACE than 16"??? Read that somewhere?

[sheerluck]

Most D3/D4 drivers will put a set of decent AT type tyre on, compared to the standard HT tyres, and some will go up a size or two, to 265/60-18 or 285/60-18 (as in my case).

Have a browse through the D3/D4/RRS (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/) forum to get some ideas.

[Islandnomad]

Yes been looking in the forums some say get rid of the 19's and 20's and get a set of 18's for best performance on D3/4/RRS in the sand. Then the D2 people say get rid of the 18's and get 16's.

It looks like the 265/60R18's are my best option as there are a lot of them around as rar110 said. Also the 265/65R18's are worth looking at too.

[Jazzman]

Yes been looking in the forums some say get rid of the 19's and 20's and get a set of 18's for best performance on D3/4/RRS in the sand. Then the D2 people say get rid of the 18's and get 16's.

It looks like the 265/60R18's are my best option as there are a lot of them around as rar110 said. Also the 265/65R18's are worth looking at too.

What kind of sand driving are we talking about? Beach and dunes? Or sandy soil?

I tend to also fall into the opinion 16" wheels in sand will give you a much better result on the beach or dunes.

However it probably doesn't matter as much in sandy soil.

The reason the D4's drop to 18" wheels is because that is as small as the can go, smaller wheels will not fit over the brakes.

18" wheels will likely give you better control on sealed roads and the 16" wheel will give you better performance off road. The real question is where do you want the better control?

16" Disco rims are not expensive or hard to find.

[Islandnomad]

I see thanks!

I live on a sand island, so mainly beach work, but some of the beaches do get very soft and spongy at times, so a greater footprint helps a lot.

I've had 16's before, great no doubt, but their are other ways to solve the issue. I have one of the last HSE D2's with a really nice set of spoke like (Hurricane maybe) wheels, so would prefer to keep the car pretty original if I can. The 265/60R18's hopefully will be fine.




What kind of sand driving are we talking about? Beach and dunes? Or sandy soil?

I tend to also fall into the opinion 16" wheels in sand will give you a much better result on the beach or dunes.

However it probably doesn't matter as much in sandy soil.

The reason the D4's drop to 18" wheels is because that is as small as the can go, smaller wheels will not fit over the brakes.

18" wheels will likely give you better control on sealed roads and the 16" wheel will give you better performance off road. The real question is where do you want the better control?

16" Disco rims are not expensive or hard to find.

[rar110]

I see thanks! I live on a sand island, so mainly beach work, but some of the beaches do get very soft and spongy at times, so a greater footprint helps a lot. I've had 16's before, great no doubt, but their are other ways to solve the issue. I have one of the last HSE D2's with a really nice set of spoke like (Hurricane maybe) wheels, so would prefer to keep the car pretty original if I can. The 265/60R18's hopefully will be fine.

I've driven on Straddy and Bribie beaches in 255/5519s a few times. I dropped to about 18-20psi when last on Straddy camping on the beach. Last time I went to Bribie for a day trip I didn't drop pressures at all just to see how it went. The tdv8 worked harder but the only time I ran out of puff was when I forgot to turn off the dynamic stability control. While the tdv8 L322 has enormous torque, the D2 td5 is lighter. I've never driven a D2.

I'm swapping over to 265/60/18s soon.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

remember,, narrow taller tyres on sand.
wider tyres are bad news on sand,, its the length of the footprint that makes all the difference.

[timdo1]

remember,, narrow taller tyres on sand.
wider tyres are bad news on sand,, its the length of the footprint that makes all the difference.

ive never heard that. Wow. thanks.

[sheerluck]

remember,, narrow taller tyres on sand.
wider tyres are bad news on sand,, its the length of the footprint that makes all the difference.

Is that why I struggle on sand Pedro, because I've only got little feet?:D

[ozscott]

Fat tyre_Think rolling a log in sand... Big wedge front to constantly overcome... Extreme eg but you get the idea.

265 Max on D2 in my opinion.

Cheers

[thai_tiger]

confused, then why let the tyre pressure down to make larger foot print in sand.

[d2dave]

confused, then why let the tyre pressure down to make larger foot print in sand.

Because as Pedro said, you are making the footprint longer, not wider.

[d2dave]

In the back of my mind my 2004 HSE does have ACE, apparently 18" wheels are a lot better for ACE than 16"??? Read that somewhere?

I have an 03 HSE with ACE and the first thing I did when I got it was sourced a set of 16 inch rims. ACE works fine. 265/75/16's.

Went to robe last cup weekend.
Got up every dune first go with no problems.
Some others in the group took a couple of go's on some and a few got bogged.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Because as Pedro said, you are making the footprint longer, not wider.

This may or may not be perfectly true,,
but it does show why,,
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/431.jpg

[Islandnomad]

Well after a little research, it seems that the Bridgestone Dueler 265/60R18LT D697 's are the answer to this particular problem and should perform fine on the existing D2a wheels. Some of the D4 people have used them with great success too. They are approx $350 each without having spoken to anyone.

[ozscott]

Just my two cents. I would go Maxxis, General Grabber AT2 or Duratracs in that size. They all perform impeccably in sand and on road. And in the case of the first two are much cheaper and are excellent quality tyres.

Cheers

[Tombie]

Just my two cents. I would go Maxxis, General Grabber AT2 or Duratracs in that size. They all perform impeccably in sand and on road. And in the case of the first two are much cheaper and are excellent quality tyres.

Cheers



Maxxis AT980 are on par for D697 pricing.

GG AT2 are too weak in sidewalls and I've seen too many fail to even consider them.

Duratracs are a robust tyre about mid way between the GG and the D697/AT980.

[ozscott]

Tombie I was thinking in terms of 16s...yep I suppose 18s will be dearer. I only get Lt in Max is and GG and I know from my experience with several sets of both on 2 vehicles and mates with the same tyres that they are tough in the wall and tread- in a range of towing (the Vag and also vans etc) and offloading in rugged country . Can't comment on Pr versions of those I recommended.

Cheers

[d2dave]

I run the Duratraks and love them.

[Tombie]

A 16" Duratrac is a thug of beauty. [emoji41]
I had all our mine LVs switched to them excluding the survey vehicles which run MTRs

[Basil135]

I've had D2's with 16's before they are great. I think I have the Hurricane 18" wheels which are really nice looking they would have the same bead wouldn't they? All of the D3 and D4's have 18" or 19" wheels how do they go offroad I wonder, they don't maybe?


Haha just a throw away line about what do they do, as they all seem to come with 18" 19" and 20" wheels and low side wall road tyres as standard which aren't that capable offroad? They all have the same problem, seems they go the 30.5"-31.6" route too!


Just wondering what the D3/4/RRS people do to make their vehicles more offroad friendly, than persisting with road tyres? Capable machines but need decent rubber offroad (probably the most important thing).

In the back of my mind my 2004 HSE does have ACE, apparently 18" wheels are a lot better for ACE than 16"??? Read that somewhere?


Ah huh...

Well, THIS D4 owner is very happy with his standard 19" rims, fitted with Goodyear Duratrac's.

Yes, it does go off road. Yes, it is very good off road. Yes, I also have a D2 (my second one, in fact, and the original is still in the family)

Oh, and my D4 cruised like the lounge on wheels that it is, all the way to Melrose, towing the camper, and then won Best of Breed, right before we picked up the trophy for winning the D4 section in the Trials Course. :D



Personal opinion - tyre selection is important for the terrain you intend on driving in. However, no amount of mechanical, electrical, computers or rubber, will make up for a poor driving style, or choosing the wrong line.

These cars, D1, D2, D3 or D4, in their standard, off the show room floor state, will go the vast majority of places that people want them to. The driver is more likely to back off, before the car does.

[Islandnomad]

I've had 3 x D2's with standard 16's they were great for what I needed. This car has 18's so I thought I'd see what our D3 D4 brothers do with these larger wheels as they have a similar problem to me. I have noticed a large difference in capability between these standard 18's particularly in soft sand compared to the 16's. Nowhere near as good and in sand I think its all about sidewall and footprint.

Hopefully going the 265/60/R18 tyre size will solve my problem as I don't particularly want to buy new wheels.

[Jazzman]

Because as Pedro said, you are making the footprint longer, not wider.

I don't mean to be a perfectionist but, while the tires gets longer it does also get wider.

IMO The tire increases its foot print in all directions.

[ozscott]

The main benefit is length. Think catapillar track versus rolling a log. Also think reduce approach angle of the face of the tyre. Minor increase in width is there (not desirable but inevitable).
Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

From what i understand it gets a little bit wider but not a lot. It goes pretty much to the edge of the tread, but unless you're really low the sidewall doesnt touch the ground, it just bags out and makes the tyre look wider.

Cheers

Dan

[Tombie]

I don't mean to be a perfectionist but, while the tires gets longer it does also get wider.



IMO The tire increases its foot print in all directions.



Stronger the sidewall the less this happens.

Footprint length is the ultimate goal. A little bagging out the sides is a side effect.

[ozscott]

For sure. Just as an example on my 75 profile Maxxis you cannot see any difference at all until 15 psi even when heavily laden for camping . They are light truck spec with Max Psi rating of 80 psi and huge load rating to suit.

Cheers

[Islandnomad]

I have an 03 HSE with ACE and the first thing I did when I got it was sourced a set of 16 inch rims. ACE works fine. 265/75/16's.

Went to robe last cup weekend.
Got up every dune first go with no problems.
Some others in the group took a couple of go's on some and a few got bogged.

I bought my first D2 in 99 a TD5 Manual 16" with ACE, great car ACE worked fine. I've been in D2 heaven ever since then. My current 2004 TD5 Auto is an HSE and has really nice 18" wheels.

I read somewhere that when Landrover was originally selling the D2 in North America, if a customer ordered ACE then they would also get 18" wheels, not sure why? Might be just a packaging thing, don't know really, just explaining my comment and wondering if 18's are better for ACE? I've had it with both 16's and 18's now, hard to say if I can tell any difference.

[Tombie]

Simple. Anything with less sidewall will handle a corner better (all other factors being equal).