The "New" Defender, ...Your Thoughts?

[MrLandy]

New 2018 spy pic. New Defender concept vehicle.

Mr Landy you should be happy with the new concept. :)

111353

:D keep trying Babs.

[ProjectDirector]

I have to agree with Mr Landy that the new Defender will be nothing like the old Defender. The new model will be built by robots and will be more likely to appeal to the masses.

However I'm betting it will be more capable (depending on how you measure capability).


...and more importantly RELIABLE

[1nando]

Why do you think the Defender failed in production? Because it didn't sell!, if Landrover Don't appeal to the masses then the replacement Defender won't work and In turn, sell units.
As another example, European heavy trucks have become massively popular in areas that were normally the domain of the American brands, Volvo, Scania, MAN, Mercedes are all overtaking Kenworth, Western star, and Mack. The reason? American trucks stay put with old design, old technology and poor ergonomics, the European trucks in comparison have invested money in R&D and are a bloody dream to operate and do the job better..
I think your holding onto some idea of a sentimental empire conquering vehicle that has had its day, bring on the new Defender..

Sorry Summit but i disagree mate. The American trucks are cheaper to run long term as opposed to the european trucks. The european trucks usually have a lot more technology, comfort and safety but also cost a lot more and when they break cost twice as much. This is my experience and what i have learned being around trucks

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[rar110]

...and more importantly RELIABLE

Yes.

[1nando]

Why do you think the Defender failed in production? Because it didn't sell!, if Landrover Don't appeal to the masses then the replacement Defender won't work and In turn, sell units.
As another example, European heavy trucks have become massively popular in areas that were normally the domain of the American brands, Volvo, Scania, MAN, Mercedes are all overtaking Kenworth, Western star, and Mack. The reason? American trucks stay put with old design, old technology and poor ergonomics, the European trucks in comparison have invested money in R&D and are a bloody dream to operate and do the job better..
I think your holding onto some idea of a sentimental empire conquering vehicle that has had its day, bring on the new Defender..

Sorry Summit but i disagree mate. The American trucks are cheaper to run long term as opposed to the european trucks. In fact most truck and dog combos are American trucks. Nothing works harder than truck and dogs that enter quarrys.

The european trucks usually have a lot more technology, comfort and safety but also cost a lot more and when they break cost twice as much. This is my experience and what i have learned being around trucks.

How this relates to the new defender i dont know. We live in a world where compromise is no longer seen as acceptable. Saftey, pollution and build cost dominate a manufacturers guide lines. Everything has to be built within these guides if they arent they are fased out. I love my Defender, theres nothing like it, wont replace it until it is dead and love driving it......if there is to be a new defender i just hope it is better than any toyota or nissan and does the icon proud.



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[Stuart02]

I suggest that this is the more pertinent quote, "In the JLR backrooms, they know life would be easier without either the Defender or the need to provide a replacement. The trouble is, whenever you ask people what a Land Rover is, they point out, or sketch, their version of the off-road icon."

That was my point, Confucius!

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[tact]

I hereby put an END to any and all speculation that LR are not working on a replacement for the old Defender.

Leaked footage of the secret testing and development program is found right here:
http://youtu.be/dif1mYc4wkY

[PAT303]

There is a very good reason that F-trucks were the 3rd highest selling vehicle in the world for 2015..beaten only by VW polo and Toyota Corolla..

Well your average Yank wouldn't fit into a Polo or Corolla :p. Pat

[PAT303]

New 2018 spy pic. New Defender concept vehicle.

Mr Landy you should be happy with the new concept. :)



111353

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I feel like a bit of a weirdo,people look at Ferrari's/Lamborghini's/Aston Martins,some even look at jap crap with garish Tupperware body kits hanging off them,me,when I think of the coolest vehicle there is I think of a Camel Trophy Defender:cool:. Pat

[Babs]

I feel like a bit of a weirdo,people look at Ferrari's/Lamborghini's/Aston Martins,some even look at jap crap with garish Tupperware body kits hanging off them,me,when I think of the coolest vehicle there is I think of a Camel Trophy Defender:cool:. Pat

Pat I have to agree with you 100% I absolutely love watching the Camel Trophy series.

I think if you looked up Awesomeness in the Dictionary there should be a photo of a Camel Trophy Land Rover.

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[MrLandy]

I hereby put an END to any and all speculation that LR are not working on a replacement for the old Defender.

Leaked footage of the secret testing and development program is found right here:
http://youtu.be/dif1mYc4wkY

Ha! Yeah exactly. Land Rover are spending more time on their staging than designing.

[Babs]

I hereby put an END to any and all speculation that LR are not working on a replacement for the old Defender. Leaked footage of the secret testing and development program is found right here: Video Link: http://youtu.be/dif1mYc4wkY (http://youtu.be/dif1mYc4wkY)


Ha ha ha :) too funny.

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[tact]

Ha ha ha :) too funny.

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I like some of the innovative body styles. And did you see the articulation some designs were getting!!! Love how LR are tapping school children brainpower for this. And an Aussie team won the last event! Aussie kids designing the new defender. How good is that!?

[Babs]

I like some of the innovative body styles. And did you see the articulation some designs were getting!!! Love how LR are tapping school children brainpower for this. And an Aussie team won the last event! Aussie kids designing the new defender. How good is that!?

Ha ha ha :) yes good stuff.

Aussie kids designing a British vehicle in India :D

Actually on another note, I thought the Discovery was made in India apparently not, still British :)

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[Pickles2]

Pat I have to agree with you 100% I absolutely love watching the Camel Trophy series.

I think if you looked up Awesomeness in the Dictionary there should be a photo of a Camel Trophy Land Rover.

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Camel Trophy?......AWESOME,....I've got the DVDs!!
Pickles.

[Babs]

Camel Trophy?......AWESOME,....I've got the DVDs!! Pickles.

I've got a couple of them on VHS somewhere in the shed.

Ha ha ha :) my kids wouldn't even know what VHS is.

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[Stuart02]

Ha ha ha :) yes good stuff.


Actually on another note, I thought the Discovery was made in India apparently not, still British :)


Brit designed Indian made?

[sheerluck]

Brit designed Indian made?

British designed, British built, company have Indian owners.

Discos are built in the Solihull factory still.

[Babs]

British designed, British built, company have Indian owners. Discos are built in the Solihull factory still.

Yep and they still will for future, apparently anything built in India will be for local market.

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[Summiitt]

Sorry Summit but i disagree mate. The American trucks are cheaper to run long term as opposed to the european trucks. In fact most truck and dog combos are American trucks. Nothing works harder than truck and dogs that enter quarrys.

The european trucks usually have a lot more technology, comfort and safety but also cost a lot more and when they break cost twice as much. This is my experience and what i have learned being around trucks.

How this relates to the new defender i dont know. We live in a world where compromise is no longer seen as acceptable. Saftey, pollution and build cost dominate a manufacturers guide lines. Everything has to be built within these guides if they arent they are fased out. I love my Defender, theres nothing like it, wont replace it until it is dead and love driving it......if there is to be a new defender i just hope it is better than any toyota or nissan and does the icon proud.



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I see where your coming from but can't agree, running my own European/American truck experiment at the moment, the defenders are like American trucks, and the European trucks are like the rest of the ute market..
Love the look and all out hammer down performance of my kenworth/western stars... But the volvo/ Mercedes do the job just the same, guys love driving them, and they are seriously over engineered.. Defenders make sense over a 10-20 year period.. Not so much over a lease period.. And that's where the Toyota/ford etc marketing system works..Land Rover need to target that fleet/lease/mining market to get short term volume..

[1nando]

Summit:
Out of curiosity what are you running in your Volvo and Mercedes trucks? Road rangers, autos...? And what are they doing for work? Interstate, quarry..?

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[Summiitt]

All are running truck and dog local work, The Volvo is @480hp- 13sp syncro volvo box and the Merc is a 16speed semi auto Mercedes box@440hp. Both American trucks are running 18sp road Rangers @550 and 575hp. Your 100% correct in regard to truck and dog work.. It's so hard on equipment, due to the relatively short runs and stop start driving

[Pedro_The_Swift]

well its new,,
and its a defender,,
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/482.jpg

[tact]

I think I spotted a new Defender being road tested in Kuala Lumpur yesterday. It was in disguise of course, the Range Rover Sport badging, grille and bonnet vents fooled me for just a few moments...

[MrLandy]

I think I spotted a new Defender being road tested in Kuala Lumpur yesterday. It was I disguise of course, the Range Rover Sport badging, grille and bonnet vents fooled me for just a few moments...

:Rolling::BigThumb:

[Beery]

This is the modern equivalent from Protean Electric.

The specs are:
Peak output power @ 400 Vdc 75 kW 100 HP
Continuous output power @ 400 Vdc 54 kW 72 HP

Peak output torque 1000 Nm 735 lb-ft
Continuous output torque 650 Nm 516 lb-ft
Nominal input voltage range 200-400Vdc 200-400VdcWidth 115 mm 4.5 inDiameter 420 mm 16.5 inTotal motor mass 34 kg 68 lb

Not seeing any need for geared hubs based on these figures.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/93.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

So. How many of the electric sceptics from 2015 are still holding their opinion?

The specs in my post above are several years old now, so the possibilities should be even greater now.

It's interesting to point out that in 2015 , Protean Electric formed a joint venture with Mahle Powertrain.
Who's Mahle Powertrain? They're a driveline component manufacturer and they work very closely with...you guessed it, Land Rover!

Reading between the lines here, but what other reason could cause such a huge delay in developing what should be a fairly simple utility vehicle other than they are working on something truly groundbreaking here?

Surely if was just a bastardised version of a D4 or D5 powertrain and chassis they could have had it slapped together and earning squillions long ago. Wouldn't a profit obsessed company do that if it could?

If they want to flog their "midget-on-cocaine" ingenium engine, it would be great for running a generator or alternator in a diesel electric setup. But a pure battery system would be better than compromising with a heavy, clumsy hybrid system.

Honestly, I'm of the opinion now that 'small' diesel engines are so smothered in emissions control crap, so undersized, overstressed, short lived and so prone to expensive failures (warranty claims) that I would say "why bother?".

[DiscoMick]

I do think I read somewhere LR saying there would be a hybrid version of all its vehicles in the future, so you may be right.

[SeanMurr123]

So. How many of the electric sceptics from 2015 are still holding their opinion?

The specs in my post above are several years old now, so the possibilities should be even greater now.

It's interesting to point out that in 2015 , Protean Electric formed a joint venture with Mahle Powertrain.
Who's Mahle Powertrain? They're a driveline component manufacturer and they work very closely with...you guessed it, Land Rover!

Reading between the lines here, but what other reason could cause such a huge delay in developing what should be a fairly simple utility vehicle other than they are working on something truly groundbreaking here?

Surely if was just a bastardised version of a D4 or D5 powertrain and chassis they could have had it slapped together and earning squillions long ago. Wouldn't a profit obsessed company do that if it could?

If they want to flog their "midget-on-cocaine" ingenium engine, it would be great for running a generator or alternator in a diesel electric setup. But a pure battery system would be better than compromising with a heavy, clumsy hybrid system.

Honestly, I'm of the opinion now that 'small' diesel engines are so smothered in emissions control crap, so undersized, overstressed, short lived and so prone to expensive failures (warranty claims) that I would say "why bother?".

I'd say the delay is that the profit makers go to the front of the queue, Range Rover, RRS, Discovery Sport, Velar, D5, probable an updated Evoke next maybe another new soft road model.. then there might be time to squeeze a Defender in before the range needs a refresh. The Defender is a heritage model not a hero model IMO so there is no rush for a new one.

As for electric... As fun as hub motors and full torque from zero RPM is, there will always be the energy storage issue. If I cant drive 500km in one go then drive another 500 after a 30min refuel/recharge/rewhatever stop then forget it.
Range extenders aren't the answer either. Any efficiency gains by running an ICE at a set RPM to a generator are outweighed by the extra hardware needed for the setup.

Electric cars will replace city runabouts but I think they will develop synthetic carbon neutral fuels that fit existing infrastructure before their adoption even reaches 20%.

There will always be need for energy dense fuels for long haul trucks, ships, plant equipment and heavy industry so something will always be available for cars.

I think I went off on a bit of a tangent there but I think the Defender is definitely not going to be a ground breaking vehicle. Personally I just hope it is more of a reasonably priced G Wagen type of thing rather than re-dressed model like the FJ cruiser was.

[Beery]

Every Jaguar Land Rover Model Will Be Electrified From 2020 (http://electriccarsreport.com/2017/09/every-jaguar-land-rover-model-will-electrified-2020/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook)

[steane]

Every Jaguar Land Rover Model Will Be Electrified From 2020 (http://electriccarsreport.com/2017/09/every-jaguar-land-rover-model-will-electrified-2020/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook)

Yep, which takes me back to what I said at the very start of this conversation...

If there is going to be a new one, then I don't think we'll see it much before the end of this decade. I believe the delay has more to do with the massive challenges faced by new vehicle designers now and the escalating and massive costs involved in designing and building an all new vehicle. Things have changed dramatically in just the last two or three years in this regard.

A lot more is going to change in the next decade and any vehicle being designed now is going to be different to what we are used to or even expecting.

Diesel, thanks in part to VW, is now a dirty word and there are car companies saying their ongoing development is a dead end, and that they will be concentrating on electric and small capacity turbo charged petrol engines and eventually just electric engines.

So while Land Rover could fit a diesel to an all new Defender, the big question is how obsolete will it be if it's not fully or partially electric drive?

There is a massive push by most car makers to bring electric vehicles to market. VW is revamping it's entire business model and has announced that it wants 30 EVs on the market by 2025.

MB are saying similar things. This technology is going to accelerate very rapidly (pardon the pun). We ain't seen nothing yet and what we have seen recently is pretty damn amazing.

Then we have autonomous vehicles. Countries are putting legislation in place to deal with them now. Car makers are buying up ride sharing companies like Uber so they can partly control their autonomous vehicle markets. This is another technology that is here right now. Google is buying into and investing heavily in autonomous vehicles. Autonomous cars are going to be here tomorrow.

Much the same is happening with safety and connectivity tech, especially connectivity.

What car maker is going to start with a clean sheet design and not feature these new technologies and directions? If they don't the new vehicle will be obsolete before it hits the market.

So by default, I am sure the days of simple, hose out, commercial style 4X4s are all but over and any new Defender isn't going to go there, simply because it won't be possible. Well you might be able to hose it out but it will be far from being a simple vehicle.

A few years ago JLR probably had the new Defender project on the board and ready to go. Nothing too major, nothing too difficult. But it's changed in the last few years and now they have no choice but to build something that is seriously cutting edge so that it is future proof. They are now creating this new vehicle at a time when the industry is on the cusp of massive change.

The next Defender, if it happens, could quite possibly be the most amazing 4X4 we've yet seen. I seriously doubt it will be anything remotely like the Defender we've known. That's not a JLR or rich man's conspiracy, it's just the evolution of the MV and the cycle is quickly gaining momentum.

[Pickles2]

I disagree that every JLR model will have an electric option by 2020, and I also disagree that electric power will be a major, if any, power option, when the "New" Defender is released.
Simply, only, IMHO, of course!
Pickles.

[DiscoMick]

Hybrid diesel-electric maybe. Ingenium can be both diesel and petrol.

[steane]

I disagree that every JLR model will have an electric option by 2020, and I also disagree that electric power will be a major, if any, power option, when the "New" Defender is released.
Simply, only, IMHO, of course!
Pickles.

You're in-part correct, because JLR is saying it won't be an option, it will be the only choice by 2020. So the new Defender, which won't be released until 2019/20, is going to be part electric, without question, whether you like it or not [smilebigeye]

[Zeros]

I like it.

...Infact I could forgive Land Rover for taking so long with new Defender if it's hybrid-electric.

[rammypluge]

Someone posed the question recently of what happens when you do a deep river crossing in an electric vehicle?

They seem to be running on higher voltages than 12V these days.

I really dont think the dedicated off road set are ready for a hybrid yet, so if the defender takes that path it may more likely be a poser model.

[Pickles2]

You're in-part correct, because JLR is saying it won't be an option, it will be the only choice by 2020. So the new Defender, which won't be released until 2019/20, is going to be part electric, without question, whether you like it or not [smilebigeye]
Honestly, it's not a question of whether I like it or not, I suppose really I haven't got any particular feelings either way,....it's more what happens when ya "put the pedal to the metal" that interests me.
So, when you say "JLR say it will be the only choice by 2020", what do you mean by that?
Pickles.
NB:Just noticed an article in this forum RSS referring to this topic, saying electric will be an "option",...but they do not say, it will be the "only choice". In other words, I guess we'll still have the ingenium engines/diesel/petrol or whatever, but if ya want electric it'll be available? I have to admit that I'm very surprised that they're saying hybrid will be an option on all models by 2020.

[steane]

Honestly, it's not a question of whether I like it or not, I suppose really I haven't got any particular feelings either way,....it's more what happens when ya "put the pedal to the metal" that interests me.
So, when you say "JLR say it will be the only choice by 2020", what do you mean by that?
Pickles.

I thought you said that you didn't believe that JLR would have an electric option by 2020. They (JLR) have just announced that from 2020 all you'll be able to buy from their showrooms is electric or hybrid electric. Google it and you'll find numerous articles with quotes from JLR or follow the link provided earlier.

Nothing to be worried about in my opinion. Electric or hybrid electric will whip a Puma Defender's buttocks with ease and will offer more torque and better driveability both on and off road. Electric won't be an issue off road, it will just improve the experience.

I'm convinced that this move to new tech being forced on the industry is the reason the all-new deefer has been delayed until 2019/20. They've gone back to the powertrain drawing board, just when they thought they had it finished.

[JDNSW]

I think you may be right. The other possibility is that all the statements may refer only to home market, although I think that is very unlikely - some of their most valued markets are elsewhere.

[rammypluge]

It seem electric may be okay for moderate water crossings at least, check out 1min35sec...
Land Rover Defender Electric OFFROAD - YouTube (https://youtu.be/iYbVQSYEHqg)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/250.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/251.jpg

[PAT303]

My dream defender will have a Ingenium T/D under the bonnet powering four traction motors,one in each hub,controlled independently so they work like open diffs on the road and diff locks off.Give the cabin 100mm more shoulder room,100mm more leg room and sell it for 50K and we are done. Pat

[Zeros]

Mine will be a boxy 110 hybrid-diesel-electric-solar beast, recycled aluminium, composite and Kevlar with live portal axles three diff locks, 16" wheels and airbags in coil suspension... $65K flat. no lux option.

[DiscoMick]

Honestly, it's not a question of whether I like it or not, I suppose really I haven't got any particular feelings either way,....it's more what happens when ya "put the pedal to the metal" that interests me.
So, when you say "JLR say it will be the only choice by 2020", what do you mean by that?
Pickles.
NB:Just noticed an article in this forum RSS referring to this topic, saying electric will be an "option",...but they do not say, it will be the "only choice". In other words, I guess we'll still have the ingenium engines/diesel/petrol or whatever, but if ya want electric it'll be available? I have to admit that I'm very surprised that they're saying hybrid will be an option on all models by 2020.
Hybrid means electric plus a conventional petrol or diesel in the one vehicle. Like a Prius.

[Greg4427]

Anyone willing to bet against the new Defender being based on the new JLR E Pace and manufactured in Austria or Slovakia? [bigwhistle]

[steane]

Honestly, it's not a question of whether I like it or not, I suppose really I haven't got any particular feelings either way,....it's more what happens when ya "put the pedal to the metal" that interests me.
So, when you say "JLR say it will be the only choice by 2020", what do you mean by that?
Pickles.
NB:Just noticed an article in this forum RSS referring to this topic, saying electric will be an "option",...but they do not say, it will be the "only choice". In other words, I guess we'll still have the ingenium engines/diesel/petrol or whatever, but if ya want electric it'll be available? I have to admit that I'm very surprised that they're saying hybrid will be an option on all models by 2020.

JLR has clearly announced that electric, either an EV or hybrid will be the only options/choice across their various brands/ranges by 2020. The announcement doesn't surprise me at all. New Defender will definitely be a hybrid and I think will also have a full EV model in the range within a year or two. You won't be able to buy a diesel only Defender. It wouldn't surprise me to see a petrol/electric hybrid Defender as it offers the best of both worlds. Loads of torque from idle and smooth/quiet highway running.

I can't wait to see what they come up with, I reckon it's going to be a hell of an off roader.

A little bird has told me that the UK MOD are particularly impressed and looking to replace their current fleet with the new deefer.

[cripesamighty]

Well if the UK MOD is looking at the new Defender, you can probably think of a few scenario's where an EV/Hybrid military vehicle would be very useful, especially noise-wise.

[Pickles2]

JLR has clearly announced that electric, either an EV or hybrid will be the only options/choice across their various brands/ranges by 2020. The announcement doesn't surprise me at all. New Defender will definitely be a hybrid and I think will also have a full EV model in the range within a year or two. You won't be able to buy a diesel only Defender. It wouldn't surprise me to see a petrol/electric hybrid Defender as it offers the best of both worlds. Loads of torque from idle and smooth/quiet highway running.

I can't wait to see what they come up with, I reckon it's going to be a hell of an off roader.

A little bird has told me that the UK MOD are particularly impressed and looking to replace their current fleet with the new deefer.
I respect your opinion of course, but I disagree if you are saying you won't be able to buy a diesel only Defender. I believe the diesel will be the standard engine in the Defender for the forseeable future.
I have no idea what engine "options" will be available, but I am 100% certain that an ingenium diesel will be the base engine.
Pickles.

[JDNSW]

If MOD is looking at them, they will be diesel - even if diesel-hybrid (which is quite possible). Armed forces worldwide mostly were weaned off petrol decades ago - and they are not going to start using a special fuel for their light vehicles, nor are they going to start running tanks etc on petrol.

[steane]

I respect your opinion of course, but I disagree if you are saying you won't be able to buy a diesel only Defender. I believe the diesel will be the standard engine in the Defender for the forseeable future.
I have no idea what engine "options" will be available, but I am 100% certain that an ingenium diesel will be the base engine.
Pickles.

It's been poorly worded news, but the crux of it is that every new JLR model introduced from 2020 onwards, will have some form of electric drive, be it petrol or diesel hybrid or full EV, not as an option but as standard. Models introduced prior to 2020 may run only combustion engines and do so until they are updated or replaced post 2020.

Volvo announced much the same thing two months ago, but from 2019.

UK is planning to ban petrol/diesel powered cars by 2040 and have them off the road altogether by 2050.

I agree that the ingenium diesel will be there for Defender, but it will be part of an electric hybrid system, which will be a good thing.

The caveat to this is of course that JLR may launch the new Defender in 2019 and run with straight diesel, but it's been delayed for a reason and the expected launch year is 2020.

We'll see Pickles...we'll see.

[Zeros]

Yes that's how I read it too Steane. ALL Land Rovers will be hybrid or full electric by 2020. A diesel electric hybrid Defender solves the fuel range issue. Excellent. That announcement by JLR has made sense of the Defender delay. Now I'm looking forward to it. And if the MOD really are interested it's likely to be a real Defender.

It's actually remarkable how long it's taken for hybrid to become mainstream.

[DiscoMick]

I notice JLR said all new models from 2020 would be electric or hybrid, so that still leaves the possibility of releasing a Defender before that time.


Land Rover’s electric future previewed by trio of concept cars | Auto Express (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/land-rover/92763/land-rover-s-electric-future-previewed-by-trio-of-concept-cars)

JLR expands UK R&D facilities to support electric car development | Autocar (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/scoop/jlr-expands-uk-rd-facilities-support-electric-car-development)

Jaguar All-Electric Sedan and SUV Approved, Supercar Plan Axed (http://www.hybridcars.com/jaguar-all-electric-sedan-and-suv-approved-supercar-plan-axed/)

Jaguar Land Rover commits to an electric/hybrid future - WixTechs.com (http://wixtechs.com/jaguar-land-rover-commits-to-an-electrichybrid-future/)

New Jaguar Land Rover models to be electric or hybrid from 2020 (http://news.sky.com/story/jaguar-land-rover-to-make-only-electric-or-hybrid-cars-by-2020-11023799)

[rammypluge]

"UK is planning to ban petrol/diesel powered cars by 2040 and have them off the road altogether by 2050."

Holy Shmoly, thats a massive, massive thing to do!?

[rammypluge]

"UK is planning to ban petrol/diesel powered cars by 2040 and have them off the road altogether by 2050."

Holy Shmoly, thats a massive, massive thing to do!?

[steane]

Today's news...China researching a date for ban of petrol/diesel car sales

Access Denied (https://www.motoring.com.au/china-to-ban-petrol-and-diesel-car-sales-108862/)

[Tombie]

Someone posed the question recently of what happens when you do a deep river crossing in an electric vehicle?

They seem to be running on higher voltages than 12V these days.

I really dont think the dedicated off road set are ready for a hybrid yet, so if the defender takes that path it may more likely be a poser model.

Come to our plant. Plenty of high voltage gear running in wet conditions...

Won’t be a problem.

[Zeros]

Unofficial Intel on next Defender...

The intel on the next Defender that I heard today from someone at Land Rover who's had contact with someone on the inner sanctum, contradicts the 2020 hybrid notion and my post above.

...apparently the next Defender is currently being tested ...for release in mid-late 2018.

The hybrid / electric announcement is actually re all new Land Rover vehicles developed from 2020 onwards.

Which means that the 2018 Defender will most likely be Ingenium diesel.

[ramblingboy42]

More unsubstantiated waffle in this thread.

I have to say it for about the 50th time, Land Rover have not released any information about the new defender.

[Zeros]

More unsubstantiated waffle in this thread.

I have to say it for about the 50th time, Land Rover have not released any information about the new defender.

He he... no nothing official. Rumours only. But mark my words.

[Pickles2]

More unsubstantiated waffle in this thread.

I have to say it for about the 50th time, Land Rover have not released any information about the new defender.
G'Day Rambling, It's ALL unsubstantiated!!...JLR are doing a great job on "security"!
Pickles.

[Zeros]

The inner sanctum is 12 people. My contact heard news from one of those.

[rammypluge]

The inner sanctum is 12 people. My contact heard news from one of those.Assuming its true you may be revealing too much with this?

[Zeros]

Nah it's just rumours

[Pickles2]

The inner sanctum is 12 people. My contact heard news from one of those.
I know nothing, so my views are worth,...nothing!
However, your "mid 2018/diesel" sounds reasonable to me, particularly as JLR's CEO has confirmed to the media that He's driven one.
Pickles.

[DiscoMick]

If they release it before 2020 I assume they will want to make sure it is designed to have a hybrid version added in the future.

[SeanMurr123]

I met a JLR AU exec a few weeks ago, I parked next to his demo D5 cause I wanted to have a look and that started the conversation.. He said they were told that they would be shown the new Defender internally in September. He had no further info other that that.
I should be seeing him again in a few weeks so will be using my best body language skills to read his answer when I ask him if I will be disappointed in the new one.

[Xtreme]

So, your JLR AU exec contact told you "that they would be shown the new Defender internally in September" ............................... but he failed to say what year. :whistling::whistling:

[Chops]

I respect your opinion of course, but I disagree if you are saying you won't be able to buy a diesel only Defender. I believe the diesel will be the standard engine in the Defender for the forseeable future.
I have no idea what engine "options" will be available, but I am 100% certain that an ingenium diesel will be the base engine.
Pickles.


I tend end to think a bit along these lines too,,, my reasoning, what about all the countries which wouldn't be able to sustain proper charging facilities(??).

Id love to see the electric hybrid version though, but I think for those places that are "out of the way" so to speak,, there'd be major issues/flaws, unless it's totally able to recharge itself.

[Zeros]

I tend end to think a bit along these lines too,,, my reasoning, what about all the countries which wouldn't be able to sustain proper charging facilities(??).

Id love to see the electric hybrid version though, but I think for those places that are "out of the way" so to speak,, there'd be major issues/flaws, unless it's totally able to recharge itself.

Yes that makes sense chops and goes with what I heard. ...If the next Defender is 2018, then presumably that design will run for a decade with a few cosmetic changes, prior to a post-2020 design being hybrid. Although as Mick says the 2018 will probably my be hybrid configurable too.

[ramblingboy42]

So, your JLR AU exec contact told you "that they would be shown the new Defender internally in September" ............................... but he failed to say what year. :whistling::whistling:

what tune are you whistling there? may I join in ?

[ramblingboy42]

is it this tune with appropriate wording?Coleshill Town Band - Carnival King Intro - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1rrbcm34Js&list=PLaUPeLYng1-NXDDo46PjFm2xaboRD7kWP&index=4)

[Xtreme]

is it this tune with appropriate wording?Coleshill Town Band - Carnival King Intro - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1rrbcm34Js&list=PLaUPeLYng1-NXDDo46PjFm2xaboRD7kWP&index=4)
Well let's see what eventuates but that'll do while we're waiting. [thumbsupbig]

[ramblingboy42]

[bigsmile]<me

[Tombie]

I certainly don’t want a hybrid that requires some form of charging at say home.

Diesel is a lot cheaper for me than electricity would be [emoji48] (likely not correct) and living in SA would mean several times a year I couldn’t go for a drive!!! [emoji56]

[steane]

An all new model, as the Defender will be, would be clocking up a tonne of kms of on-road testing between a number of prototypes, most likely across the world, in hot and cold climates. Testing that takes months/years, not weeks/months and it's during this testing that the spy pics start to appear.

Not a single spy pic exists of the new Defender anywhere. No mules have been spotted, no heavily padded prototypes, no vinyl wrapped 'almost there' prototypes, nothing.

There is no way that it'll be launched in 2018.

2019 is more realistic and 2020 is just 27 months away...

Hybrid doesn't mean it will require recharging, that's a PHEV not a straight hybrid. Running the 2.0 or 3.0 ingenium diesel with electric engine assistance is no different to how the Prius or Hybrid Camrys work now. Saves fuel, more torque and full electric running in certain circumstances. Hybrid Camrys were impressive vehicles to drive back when they first came out. It's proven technology now and really not that big a deal.

[cuppabillytea]

Come to our plant. Plenty of high voltage gear running in wet conditions...

Won’t be a problem.

Not to mention Irrigation pumps, submersible pumps, electric winches on vessels and even Submarines have electric motors.

[tact]

Not to mention Irrigation pumps, submersible pumps, electric winches on vessels and even Submarines have electric motors.

My company manufactures and sells electric submersible fuel pumps. 240v electric motors inside underground storage tanks on petrol stations. The fuel is forced up over the rotor and cools it!

[Pickles2]

An all new model, as the Defender will be, would be clocking up a tonne of kms of on-road testing between a number of prototypes, most likely across the world, in hot and cold climates. Testing that takes months/years, not weeks/months and it's during this testing that the spy pics start to appear.

Not a single spy pic exists of the new Defender anywhere. No mules have been spotted, no heavily padded prototypes, no vinyl wrapped 'almost there' prototypes, nothing.

There is no way that it'll be launched in 2018.

2019 is more realistic and 2020 is just 27 months away...

Hybrid doesn't mean it will require recharging, that's a PHEV not a straight hybrid. Running the 2.0 or 3.0 ingenium diesel with electric engine assistance is no different to how the Prius or Hybrid Camrys work now. Saves fuel, more torque and full electric running in certain circumstances. Hybrid Camrys were impressive vehicles to drive back when they first came out. It's proven technology now and really not that big a deal.
JLR's security has been tight, very tight, I've stated that.
I understand that you have your opinion, and we all do have them (opinions), so all is good there, but there could be mules running around in all sorts of guises,..how would we know? It's been said that the new Defender will have much in common chassis wise with the Disco, so how do we know there's not been a Disco running around with Defender running gear underneath it?
As far as 2018 is concerned, are you saying that we will see/know nothing about it at all?...I find that hard to believe & I hope you are wrong!!.....but you know what, maybe I don't (hope you are wrong!), because the greater the "gap" between the old & new Defender, the more "distinction" there will be between the two, and I think I like that!
So Steane, when is it, that in your opinion, we will actually be able to BUY a new Defender in Aus?
Be very sure that you know that I'm NOT "arguing" with you, we've all got a right to our own opinions!
As far as engines are concerned, I say an ingenium diesel will be the base engine, not saying there won't be a hybrid option, only that diesel will be the base, and that there will be a range of diesel only ingeniums available in Defender as they are in other recently introduced models.
Not saying there won't be a hybrid, I wouldn't have a clue, but I reckon there'll be a range of diesel only ingeniums available, hopefully at least some with decent power.
Pickles.
Pickles.

[SeanMurr123]

So, your JLR AU exec contact told you "that they would be shown the new Defender internally in September" ............................... but he failed to say what year. :whistling::whistling:

It was in August so he did say, that's next month, but it didn't sound like he was that confident in it happening, or he was told a while ago and they aren't making a big song and dance about it internally or something. I got the impression it would be closer to a 2018 than a 2020 model though.

[SeanMurr123]

An all new model, as the Defender will be, would be clocking up a tonne of kms of on-road testing between a number of prototypes, most likely across the world, in hot and cold climates. Testing that takes months/years, not weeks/months and it's during this testing that the spy pics start to appear.

Not a single spy pic exists of the new Defender anywhere. No mules have been spotted, no heavily padded prototypes, no vinyl wrapped 'almost there' prototypes, nothing.

There is no way that it'll be launched in 2018.

2019 is more realistic and 2020 is just 27 months away...

Hybrid doesn't mean it will require recharging, that's a PHEV not a straight hybrid. Running the 2.0 or 3.0 ingenium diesel with electric engine assistance is no different to how the Prius or Hybrid Camrys work now. Saves fuel, more torque and full electric running in certain circumstances. Hybrid Camrys were impressive vehicles to drive back when they first came out. It's proven technology now and really not that big a deal.

The Velar was kept pretty quiet.

[steane]

JLR's security has been tight, very tight, I've stated that.
I understand that you have your opinion, and we all do have them (opinions), so all is good there, but there could be mules running around in all sorts of guises,..how would we know? It's been said that the new Defender will have much in common chassis wise with the Disco, so how do we know there's not been a Disco running around with Defender running gear underneath it?
As far as 2018 is concerned, are you saying that we will see/know nothing about it at all?...I find that hard to believe & I hope you are wrong!!.....but you know what, maybe I don't (hope you are wrong!), because the greater the "gap" between the old & new Defender, the more "distinction" there will be between the two, and I think I like that!
So Steane, when is it, that in your opinion, we will actually be able to BUY a new Defender in Aus?
Be very sure that you know that I'm NOT "arguing" with you, we've all got a right to our own opinions!
As far as engines are concerned, I say an ingenium diesel will be the base engine, not saying there won't be a hybrid option, only that diesel will be the base, and that there will be a range of diesel only ingeniums available in Defender as they are in other recently introduced models.
Not saying there won't be a hybrid, I wouldn't have a clue, but I reckon there'll be a range of diesel only ingeniums available, hopefully at least some with decent power.
Pickles.
Pickles.

It's absolutely possible that there are mules running around testing the drivetrain, and it's entirely possible/probable that the drivetrain will be shared with other LR product, so it could all be happening under the skin of a Disco for sure. But that's just the drivetrain, the rest of the actual vehicle (not the mule body) needs testing as well and that is what we aren't seeing.

Joining the dots leads me to believe that we won't see a new Defender revealed in production form until 2020 and that its Ingenium diesel (and possibly petrol) engines will have assistance from one or more electric motors. It just makes the most sense when you consider the recent "every new model = electric drive of some type" announcement, the backlash against diesel that is growing across the world, the need to meet Euro6 and future tighter restrictions, the continued push to improve fuel efficiency (a big deal in this sized vehicle - the Pajero isn't being further developed due to fuel efficiency concerns, or wasn't prior to the Alliance takeover) and the eventual and inevitable move towards full EV for all vehicles which is 100 per cent going to happen. Europe and China have made it inevitable.

Now, the 2020 date for the announcement could have been carefully chosen so that it didn't sweep the new Defender up in the electrical hysteria...in which case I reckon we'll see it sometime in 2019 and it will have a diesel only drivetrain option, at least for a little while. If that happens, next time I'm in Melbourne I'll drop in with two nice bottles of Clare Valley Shiraz, one of which I'll help you drink [bigsmile1]

So I reckon 20 per cent chance of 2019 unveiling, an 80 per cent chance of a 2020 unveiling and a 100 per cent chance of nothing doing in 2018.

I'm happy to be wrong as well, I just want it to be a bloody good thing and not out of my reach financially.

[PAT303]

2020 sounds good,I'm seriously thinking of replacing my TDCi with a D3,then trading the D3 for a new Defender. Pat

[scarry]

I certainly don’t want a hybrid that requires some form of charging at say home.

Diesel is a lot cheaper for me than electricity would be [emoji48] (likely not correct) and living in SA would mean several times a year I couldn’t go for a drive!!! [emoji56]

Your not far off with costs.

I read an article the other day,on that new Mazda petrol with no spark plugs and they recon it will be cheaper to run in many places than paying for power to charge up batteries for an electric vehicle of equivalent size and to go an equivalent distance.

Interesting times.

[DiscoMick]

Solar and batteries can take care of the electricity cost issue.

[Vern]

I have been told 2019 for the new defender.

[scarry]

Solar and batteries can take care of the electricity cost issue.

Solar doesn't work everywhere,and not well on overcast days.

There is also the large initial cost of the solar/battery system.

And ongoing repairs and updating.

But technology in this area will continue to develop.

As will internal combustion engines.

[tact]

Solar doesn't work everywhere,and not well on overcast days.

There is also the large initial cost of the solar/battery system.

And ongoing repairs and updating.

But technology in this area will continue to develop.

As will internal combustion engines.

In the oil & gas (retail) business there are many who hold that if petrol engines can achieve 30% better economy without sacrificing performance - then the challenge from electric vehicles can be staved off for years to come.

The new Mazda engine tech is claiming 30% improvement....

[cuppabillytea]

It is also mooted that a breakthrough in Hydrogen Fuel cells is imminent.
The trouble with batteries is the weight and bulk of the storage system and the length of time it takes to recharge.
One thing is certain: Fuel Stations are set to become complex and interesting places, with no shortage of topics for conversation.

[PAT303]

In the oil & gas (retail) business there are many who hold that if petrol engines can achieve 30% better economy without sacrificing performance - then the challenge from electric vehicles can be staved off for years to come.

The new Mazda engine tech is claiming 30% improvement....

It's easy to get very large improvements in regards to fuel economy,make the kids ride bikes to school instead of driving them. Pat

[ramblingboy42]

Pickles, I reckon you should up Steans ante to at least half a dozen of that Clare Valley Shiraz and I'll come down and give you hand with it.

[Zeros]

2020 sounds good,I'm seriously thinking of replacing my TDCi with a D3,then trading the D3 for a new Defender. Pat

Good plan Pat. get in early on the Defender going soft! ....Whoa! Ducking now! 😳😂

[Zeros]

I actually hope you're right Stean. I would prefer to see a hybrid / radical new Defender that sets it apart from the classic Defender, as long as it's a true heavy duty work vehicle as well as being environmentally savvy. ...and affordable, but not all that hopeful about that.

This is a great discussion. Thanks to all for your thoughts. I'm enjoying it. Hearing many different perspectives in a vacuum of factual info is brilliant.

[Zeros]

I'd contribute half a case of Shiraz to that party too! But we'll be ancient if we wait til the new Defender is released! ...reckon we should drink Shiraz and 'discuss' around the fire well before 2020!

[jon3950]

If that happens, next time I'm in Melbourne I'll drop in with two nice bottles of Clare Valley Shiraz, one of which I'll help you drink [bigsmile1]


You're welcome to drop in here anytime. [biggrin]

I took a liking to the Shut the Gate Single Site Shiraz last time I was there....... [bigwhistle]

[scarry]

It's easy to get very large improvements in regards to fuel economy,make the kids ride bikes to school instead of driving them. Pat

Ahh,we could have a whole thread on this..........

Even catching a bus would be a massive improvement and keep thousands of cars off the road.

And riding bikes,just what kids need today,a bit of exercise and fresh air.....

Cant keep going,i will get shot to pieces and it is way off topic....[bigsad][bigsmile1]

[SG1 Bones]

I love the idea of an hybrid or all electric 'Defender' but, what about us poor fellas who'd like to keep our old fossils? I plan to hand it down to my kids when I kick the bucket but how will I fuel it now and then if there is no longer petrol/diesel? I think I need to get the 300TDi swapped in and then run it on the fish and chip shop oil. [emoji12]

Nathan.

[JDNSW]

I suspect that diesel at least will be around for a long time, even if "cars" need to be electric. It is going to be a long time, I suspect, before EV technology manages to meet the needs of long distance haulage, either road or rail, and even longer before it meets the needs for compactness and endurance needed for earth moving and farm machinery. Just to take the last - how long before there will be electric tractors that can economically spend ten months of the year in a shed and then operate 23hours a day to get the crop in when it rains?

And then there are all those small petrol motors that are used only occasionally. Certainly some of them are being replaced by cordless electrical devices, but how about the standby generator for emergency use when the grid is out? Or the firefighting pump? So even if "cars" can no longer use petrol or diesel, I expect that fuel will still be available, in the same vein that, for example, candles still are. While the reduced production will mean it will cost more, I suppose there is some hope that this may be offset by a reduction in excise, since most of the fuel sold will be for uses where excise is refundable.

[Tote]

With you there, I spotted another Cat D2 in the general vicinity of our farm the other day, that makes 3 in a 20KM or so radius, all still in use and they stopped manufacturing those in 1957.

Regards,
Tote

[JDNSW]

Yes - my tractor is 48 years old - both my neighbours have working tractors similar ages, although both also have newer tractors - one has one only twenty years old, the other (I think he has four or five working tractors) has recently acquired a BIG one, which I think is about ten years old. Not too many farmers round here can afford to buy new tractors.

[steane]

You're welcome to drop in here anytime. [biggrin]

I took a liking to the Shut the Gate Single Site Shiraz last time I was there....... [bigwhistle]

Haha...! I haven't tried that one but will keep an eye out for it, if it's available in bottle shops. Some of the good stuff never makes it to the retail chains.

[Zeros]

Yes - my tractor is 48 years old - both my neighbours have working tractors similar ages, although both also have newer tractors - one has one only twenty years old, the other (I think he has four or five working tractors) has recently acquired a BIG one, which I think is about ten years old. Not too many farmers round here can afford to buy new tractors.

Most people can't 'afford' new Land Rovers either and many who buy one are doing so solely because of low interest rates and home equity. It's boom time for some, which appears to be why all new Land Rovers are aimed at the urban luxury market, not farmers. Hmmm

[Pickles2]

I'd contribute half a case of Shiraz to that party too! But we'll be ancient if we wait til the new Defender is released! ...reckon we should drink Shiraz and 'discuss' around the fire well before 2020!
Unfortunately, I'm drinking my share already, maybe not too much around a campfire, but there seems to be always the odd empty bottle around!!
Always looking for a good drop, I'd have to say Bin 28 is usually good. Went to the National Gallery yesterday, where Wifey is a member, and had a very nice medium rare rib-eye in the attached Garden Restaurant. We had a bottle of Bishop? (can't remember the full name!) Shiraz which went down very nicely,...there's a lot of good stuff around,...unfortunately some bad ones too!
Finally, I'm not into "Art", but the National Gallery is quite special, I'd recommend a visit.
Anyway, if there's any "get togethers" involving Shiraz, I'm in!
Pickles.
NB: I've done a bit of research for any wine drinkers. The wine we drank was "Bishop Shiraz" made bt Glaetzer Wines, Barossa,..av price seems to be around $30.

[DiscoMick]

Unfortunately, I'm drinking my share already, maybe not too much around a campfire, but there seems to be always the odd empty bottle around!!
Always looking for a good drop, I'd have to say Bin 28 is usually good. Went to the National Gallery yesterday, where Wifey is a member, and had a very nice medium rare rib-eye in the attached Garden Restaurant. We had a bottle of Bishop? (can't remember the full name!) Shiraz which went down very nicely,...there's a lot of good stuff around,...unfortunately some bad ones too!
Finally, I'm not into "Art", but the National Gallery is quite special, I'd recommend a visit.
Anyway, if there's any "get togethers" involving Shiraz, I'm in!
Pickles.

I was at the National Gallery in Canberra recently and agree it was an excellent show. Didn't eat there, but the coffee outside was OK.
I stood in front of Blue Poles and tried to figure out if Pollack was drunk when he did it. I think he probably was.

[Zeros]

Unfortunately, I'm drinking my share already, maybe not too much around a campfire, but there seems to be always the odd empty bottle around!!
Always looking for a good drop, I'd have to say Bin 28 is usually good. Went to the National Gallery yesterday, where Wifey is a member, and had a very nice medium rare rib-eye in the attached Garden Restaurant. We had a bottle of Bishop? (can't remember the full name!) Shiraz which went down very nicely,...there's a lot of good stuff around,...unfortunately some bad ones too!
Finally, I'm not into "Art", but the National Gallery is quite special, I'd recommend a visit.
Anyway, if there's any "get togethers" involving Shiraz, I'm in!
Pickles.
NB: I've done a bit of research for any wine drinkers. The wine we drank was "Bishop Shiraz" made bt Glaetzer Wines, Barossa,..av price seems to be around $30.

I reckon if you're a Shiraz connoisseur, you're into art. 👍

[Pickles2]

I reckon if you're a Shiraz connoisseur, you're into art. 👍
Lol. I don't think I'm a "connoisseur",...I just like it!!
Pickles.

[Zeros]

Lol. I don't think I'm a "connoisseur",...I just like it!!
Pickles.

Nah, you're a Shiraz drinking art lover!

[Xtreme]

From all this discussion about Shiraz, does it man that the new Defender won't run on petrol, diesel or electricity but instead will be fueled by Shiraz. [thumbsupbig]

Or maybe just the owners/drivers will be.

[Zeros]

...either Shiraz, or eccentricity!😳

[seaweed]

I love the idea of an hybrid or all electric 'Defender' but, what about us poor fellas who'd like to keep our old fossils? I plan to hand it down to my kids when I kick the bucket but how will I fuel it now and then if there is no longer petrol/diesel? I think I need to get the 300TDi swapped in and then run it on the fish and chip shop oil. [emoji12]

Nathan.

I think I also like the idea of an hybrid or all electric Defender also, does this mean they wont leak oil!

[jon3950]

NB: I've done a bit of research for any wine drinkers. The wine we drank was "Bishop Shiraz" made bt Glaetzer Wines, Barossa,..av price seems to be around $30.

Yep, nice drop. Often seen in these parts. Goes very well with a good steak as you say, or a standing rib done in the Weber. Hmmm, there's an idea for the weekend.....

[Chops]

From all this discussion about Shiraz, does it man that the new Defender won't run on petrol, diesel or electricity but instead will be fueled by Shiraz. [thumbsupbig]

Or maybe just the owners/drivers will be.


Disco's = Latte's

Deefer = Wine's ,,,,oops,, I'll get in first,,, or should that be whinge [bigwhistle]

[JDNSW]

Have I stumbled into the wrong thread? I thought this was "The New Defender", not "Threads that go off topic"!

[Zeros]

It's definitely difficult to stay on topic when the thing we're discussing doesn't exist!. 🙃

[DiscoMick]

Seems to be the 'Which drink will go with the new Defender?' thread. I'll vote for a nice plump Merlot.

[Zeros]

Seems to be the 'Which drink will go with the new Defender?' thread. I'll vote for a nice plump Merlot.

But Mick, a plump merlot might will the new Defender to look like a D5! An edgy Shiraz is far more propitious for a Deefer! 😊👍

[tact]

But Mick, a plump merlot might will the new Defender to look like a D5! An edgy Shiraz is far more propitious for a Deefer! 😊👍

Geez you blokes are borderline metrosexuals! Debating which red will go with a defender. And so many debating - a mass debate?

I like a good red as much as the next man but thats for home with the slippers and waistcoat. In the bush with a Defender surely its beers or rum.

[Pickles2]

Well OK, back on topic.
Like I've said, I know nothing about the new Defender. What I will say is that from when Solihull said production would end in December 2015 (they announced this earlier in 2015, and yes I know production actually finished in 2016), I really did not think that here we would be, two years down the track, and not only is there no new Defender, but no-one knows anything about it, and even at this stage JLR are giving us nothing,...not a hint,...the only thing we are getting is hints about ever lengthening release dates,...but I'm sure the new one will be good, maybe not for me, maybe not for the purists, but I'm damn sure it will be very good,...if it isn't, whatever it is, it will be the first "dud vehicle" released by JLR for decades.
Pickles.

[steane]

Geez you blokes are borderline metrosexuals! Debating which red will go with a defender. And so many debating - a mass debate?

I like a good red as much as the next man but thats for home with the slippers and waistcoat. In the bush with a Defender surely its beers or rum.

Nah, beer/rum is for Toyota driving teenagers with tribal tattoos and under-developed palates.

Home in the slippers is single malt territory.

Any mildly refined Defender owner packs a case of red for each trip, nothing to have the campfire cooked rib-eye with otherwise.

Wine is how classy people get smashed...don't you know.

And to keep it on topic, I've heard from a source that I can't reveal, that the even the base model of the new Defender will have a built in Vintec wine cabinet. Part of the reason the release has been delayed to 2020 is that they've been developing an air-suspension arrangement for the Vintec, to ensure the wine is only ever shaken and not stirred, no matter how challenging the terrain. And that's the truth. [bigsmile]

[DiscoMick]

Geez you blokes are borderline metrosexuals! Debating which red will go with a defender. And so many debating - a mass debate?

I like a good red as much as the next man but thats for home with the slippers and waistcoat. In the bush with a Defender surely its beers or rum.

You wear a waistcoat and you complain we're metrosexuals? What's wrong with a flanny?

[Chops]

You wear a waistcoat and you complain we're metrosexuals? What's wrong with a flanny?


Its obviously a "Brittish" thing (in my best English accent) [bigwhistle]

[tact]

You wear a waistcoat and you complain we're metrosexuals? What's wrong with a flanny?

Drinking wine at home in a flanny?! How do you dress for date night? Unwashed trakky daks, thongs and a mullet? :banana:


On topic comment - I don't care what engine the "new" defender has, whether its electric or hybrid or steam. Am sure that LR can make it go and stop and turn corners.

Its the little things from the current defender I would miss if they are changed:
- being able to throw absolutely filthy muddy equipment, clothing, boots, and leaking rubbish bags into the ute tub
- not being worried if the shovel or tirfor scratches or dents the ute tub floor
- flat interior floors with removable rubber mats, no carpets or footwells, so it can be easily hosed out inside....
- going from 235/85R16 to 255/85R16, by just changing the rubbery bit - no need for spacers, camel cuts, suspension lifts, body lifts
- being able to see all 4 corners from the driver seat

[jon3950]

Nah, beer/rum is for Toyota driving teenagers with tribal tattoos and under-developed palates.

Home in the slippers is single malt territory.

Any mildly refined Defender owner packs a case of red for each trip, nothing to have the campfire cooked rib-eye with otherwise.

Wine is how classy people get smashed...don't you know.

And to keep it on topic, I've heard from a source that I can't reveal, that the even the base model of the new Defender will have a built in Vintec wine cabinet. Part of the reason the release has been delayed to 2020 is that they've been developing an air-suspension arrangement for the Vintec, to ensure the wine is only ever shaken and not stirred, no matter how challenging the terrain. And that's the truth. [bigsmile]

Absolutely. When I travel in my Defender it is always well stocked with wine and whisky, it's far more fitting when travelling the far reaches of the Empire in the best of British, old chap.

And as for the new Defender, it exists and it's coming and will be here sooner than you think. It will be a good thing and will **** off the traditionalists - that's inevitable. It will probably find a place in my driveway but it will be sitting next to my current one - that will never leave.

Cheers,
Jon

[Zeros]

Yes. Defender traits that should be non negotiable: Being able to see all four corners, upright seating position. Robust no fuss interior, flat floors. Economical, pragmatic, classic proportions, flat sided, high roofline. ...closest right now is G Professional Wagon (tub floor, has drain holes built in). But it doesn't appear economical at $110K+
...and it's not a Defender.

[jon3950]

Well Mr Steane, you'll be pleased to know that after all this talk of Clare Valley Shiraz I decided to visit a dear old friend, Mr Daniel Murphy, this afternoon in search of said libation. And this despite having a Bishop or two lurking in one of the cold, dank corners of the cellar* - and a new Californian Zinfandel that was begging me to taste it.

My heart was set on a Tim Adams Aberfeldy Shiraz but alas I had to settle for a Jim Barry McRae Wood. Quite a subtle yet satisfyingly complex rendition of the genre which went very well with the standing rib. Whilst waiting for the beef to reach a perfect 54 degrees in the Weber we enjoyed a premier crus Chablis. Some days, life really is good - and those days invariably involve a bottle or two of wine and/or a Defender.

Cheers,
Jon

*May or may or not be a real cellar.