Argh Double Cardan Unis

[CraigE]

Next time I mention I am going to do the unis and ball on the double cardan, remind me to get someone else to do it.
I have never had so much drama fitting.
The front uni and the front of the cardan were not to bad, even removing the ball was easy.
Getting the ball back on the shaft far enough to allow the unis to line up was a drama and ended up having to use a press to get the seal over the last lip. Now articulation of the cardan is really tight, though should loosen with a bit of effort. Certainly not like the easy push on in the videos. Then putting in the last uni pressed a bit hard and cracked a uni cap, so off to get another uni in the morning. That last uni fitting is just a pig as has to be mm perfect,
Way too much effort for what should be a simple job, never had so many issues with uni's ever.
Remind me next tine to get someone else to do it.
:censored::censored:

[Gumnut]

Ha ha, I was just thinking exactly the same thing!!
Only difference, after struggling for some time, and punching out the bottom of a cup (dropped needle) going to get a replacement, re-positioning all the centre bearing needles (again...) and getting it together, discovered that the last cup was completely loose in trunnion...... Needless to say, the spare one in the bin was flogged out even worse.....
New shaft inbound, never touching that double cardan ever again, under any circumstances!!! Gumnut.

[CraigE]

:D Me neither, I would say very poor design, should not be that hard. Have done unis before but never this hard. Should really be a 4hr job, has turned into about 8hrs plus. Cant believe how stiff it becomes when the ball is in place. Certainly just does not push on like they show. Never again.
Cheers
Craig


Ha ha, I was just thinking exactly the same thing!!
Only difference, after struggling for some time, and punching out the bottom of a cup (dropped needle) going to get a replacement, re-positioning all the centre bearing needles (again...) and getting it together, discovered that the last cup was completely loose in trunnion...... Needless to say, the spare one in the bin was flogged out even worse.....
New shaft inbound, never touching that double cardan ever again, under any circumstances!!! Gumnut.

[Roverlord off road spares]

Then putting in the last uni pressed a bit hard and cracked a uni cap, so off to get another uni in the morning.
:censored::censored:
Usually if the cap gets cracked is because one of the needle rollers has been dislodge and fallen and is resting on the bottom of the cap.Then when pressing the cap down it had no more clearance and hits the dislodged pin causing the cap top crack. Needle rollers are held in by grease and don't like to be disturbed much. Big Cable ties also help when reassembling the double joint , like an extra pair of hand to hold things.
Cheers,
Mario

[discorevy]

^^^x2
It shouldn't be tight at all , as Mario said , you've dropped a needle roller, I wouldn't fit it if it was tight , and if the ball is tight on its own there is probably a dropped roller in that as well
Cable ties are your friend, or even better a friend is your friend
Don't forget to centralise it all when assembled
Or give it to someone else that does them on a regular basis to do

[CraigE]

^^^x2
It shouldn't be tight at all , as Mario said , you've dropped a needle roller, I wouldn't fit it if it was tight , and if the ball is tight on its own there is probably a dropped roller in that as well
Cable ties are your friend, or even better a friend is your friend
Don't forget to centralise it all when assembled
Or give it to someone else that does them on a regular basis to do

No dropped roller on the ball, pulled off twice to make sure before pressing the last little bit, just very tight fit, much tighter than I would have thought. Only tightened up when we pressed the last 1cm on, would not push all the way home by hand that is for sure.
Will grease up the uni properly and check for rotation.

[CraigE]

Now greased unis fully moves a lot better.


^^^x2
It shouldn't be tight at all , as Mario said , you've dropped a needle roller, I wouldn't fit it if it was tight , and if the ball is tight on its own there is probably a dropped roller in that as well
Cable ties are your friend, or even better a friend is your friend
Don't forget to centralise it all when assembled
Or give it to someone else that does them on a regular basis to do

[northiam]

The centre bearing housing has a tiny hole drilled thru to the back to relieve grease as its pressurised during assembly as the spigot is pushed into bearing. If this hole was blocked it would make assembly difficult.
Worth a look:)

[CraigE]

Well tailshaft is done and painted, will go back in in the morning.
Had some advice from the Hardie Spicer guys that have done these.
1: Do not fill with grease before fitting unis, just a smear over needles to hold them in place as excess grease can cause needles to move and even damage including damaged caps.
2: Unis and ball will be tight initially, tap with hammer to seat correctly and then grease, rotate in a vice to lubricate and free up.

[CraigE]

Well tailshaft back in and no dramas so a win.
:D:D

[GazMann]

Hi all knowledgeable people

Rather than starting a new thread I thought I would post here as related.
I have just replaced all unis and the bearing with heavy duty Hardy Spicer items. The fitment went fairly smoothly, definitely not the issues that CraigE had. As this is a new car to me (but only 120 000 on the clock) I have replaced the Uni's as a precautionary measure. The tailshaft appears to be the original one as non-greasable carden shaft uni's and the tailshaft bolts don't appear to have had a spanner on them. Unusually the carden shaft uni's were still in perfect condition with clean grease but the single uni at the diff end was showing signs of wear.

My question is where is the grease point for the spline? Did they make shafts without grease points on the spline? There is no removable bolt that I can see. The rear tailshaft has a nipple fitted.

Gary

[CraigE]

Gary,
Depending on what shaft, it may not have a grease nipple. If it does not just behind the dust boot (diff end) heading back along the tailshaft about an inch or two there will be a little plug or grub screw. You can remove this and push in grease or put in a grease nipple to grease. The other way is while out you can pull off the boot and slide the spline out and manually grease. I would just put in the grease nipple. Yours must be about the only one left in Australia without a grease nipple. LOL.
Glad yours was a easier rebuild than mine. I think mine may be a non LR shaft or has been rebuilt recently. What amazed me is someone has gone to a lot of expense and trouble to rebuild and fit this unit, but then not bothered to grease anything. I think the UNI's may have GKN as they were greasable but not HS. I would say it was only ever greased on assembly if that, such a waste as it ground one of the slines nearly half way. Even the splines had no grease on them, just a blue coating of some sort. Look now its over I would consider doing it again now I know what to look for and some easier methods.
Cheers
Craig

Hi all knowledgeable people

Rather than starting a new thread I thought I would post here as related.
I have just replaced all unis and the bearing with heavy duty Hardy Spicer items. The fitment went fairly smoothly, definitely not the issues that CraigE had. As this is a new car to me (but only 120 000 on the clock) I have replaced the Uni's as a precautionary measure. The tailshaft appears to be the original one as non-greasable carden shaft uni's and the tailshaft bolts don't appear to have had a spanner on them. Unusually the carden shaft uni's were still in perfect condition with clean grease but the single uni at the diff end was showing signs of wear.

My question is where is the grease point for the spline? Did they make shafts without grease points on the spline? There is no removable bolt that I can see. The rear tailshaft has a nipple fitted.

Gary

[CraigE]

This is what it may look like with a grub screw.
Cheers
Craig

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/518.jpg

[GazMann]

Yes I looked at pictures before posting so am aware of the grub screw. The only thing is mine doesn't appear to have one. Pulled the boot back in case it was hiding but still nothing visible. Didn't force it but the spline didn't want to separate.

Mine also has a different dust boot to yours and other photos I have seen. It has 3 ribs in the bellows to allow for expansion and is clamped at both ends, so a better sealed system. I will post photos when I get back to the car.

It appears to be a genuine item as has GKN on the shaft and the correct LR part number.

[northiam]

The shaft changed in mid 2001 I hear.
No spline just ball bearings running in grooves


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/527.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/528.jpg

[GazMann]

The shaft changed in mid 2001 I hear.
No spline just ball bearings running in grooves


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/527.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/528.jpg

Thats what mine looks like thank for the info. Mine is a 2004

[CraigE]

Pics not of ours but one I found when checking out tailshafts. My Defender 2000 has nipple as does the 2001 D2. Have to check the build but I think was mid 2001. Interesting if they have changed, maybe ours was like it and changed, dont know.


Yes I looked at pictures before posting so am aware of the grub screw. The only thing is mine doesn't appear to have one. Pulled the boot back in case it was hiding but still nothing visible. Didn't force it but the spline didn't want to separate.

Mine also has a different dust boot to yours and other photos I have seen. It has 3 ribs in the bellows to allow for expansion and is clamped at both ends, so a better sealed system. I will post photos when I get back to the car.

It appears to be a genuine item as has GKN on the shaft and the correct LR part number.

[kelvo]

My 2003 D2a has this stylethat Craig posted as well. No idea on the history of the shaft, I bought the Disco 4 years ago at 170,000Km with it on. I've since fitted Hardy Spicer greasable UJs and replaced the centre ball.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/518.jpg

[Tins]

I've never quite got why a D2 needs a double cardan joint in the first place. I understand what one is, one version of a CV joint. But, given the similarities between a RRC, a D1 and a D2, I cannot see why LR bothered. My D2 is lifted 2". My D1 is lifted 2" I am warned to check the double cardan on the D2 because of possible dire consequences to the T/C, but nobody warns me of those same consequences on the D1.
Why don't we all just fit D1 shafts to the D2? Serious question.

[CraigE]

John,
Just my opinion, but I think from my observations the D1 TC is in line with the diff just higher so only 1 angle. The D2 is offset both higher and to the side of the diff, so maybe this is why. I am with you though, I dont think a double cardan is really required, maybe just better allignment.


I've never quite got why a D2 needs a double cardan joint in the first place. I understand what one is, one version of a CV joint. But, given the similarities between a RRC, a D1 and a D2, I cannot see why LR bothered. My D2 is lifted 2". My D1 is lifted 2" I am warned to check the double cardan on the D2 because of possible dire consequences to the T/C, but nobody warns me of those same consequences on the D1.
Why don't we all just fit D1 shafts to the D2? Serious question.

[northiam]

The driveshaft revision was auto trans Td5 only:)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1513269-post203.html

[Tins]

When I get my D2 back I'll climb under them both and do some measuring.

[Richo1]

Got one from proptek $400 delivered to home address in Australia grease nipples on side same as Tom Woods. Seem to be good had no troubles easy to grease why would you fix?

Richo1

[CraigE]

Got one from proptek $400 delivered to home address in Australia grease nipples on side same as Tom Woods. Seem to be good had no troubles easy to grease why would you fix?

Richo1

Are you sure the name Proptek is correct?? Comes up as irrigation.
Cheers
Craig