Puma Diff rebuild

[dancol]

Hi Guys,

My diff has been making a hell of a noise lately and the mechanic has said it needs to be rebuilt. Is there anything else I should be doing at the same time while the diff is getting rebuilt?



Is there any aftermarket kits or upgrades that would make sense to do while the diff is out?

Thanks heaps


Dan

[justinc]

If it is a rear one then just fit a Salisbury and forget about ever touching it again. If you get a unit from a 1999 to 2002 110 it will already be set up with ABS. You will only then need to shorten your original tailshaft to suit.

Jc

[justinc]

If it is a 130 then you can use any sals from 1994 onward with discs.

[MLD]

If it is a rear one then just fit a Salisbury and forget about ever touching it again. If you get a unit from a 1999 to 2002 110 it will already be set up with ABS. You will only then need to shorten your original tailshaft to suit.

Jc

Only the TD5 extreme model in 1999 to 2002 had ABS. I had a non extreme TD5 with a salisbury which is now under my 130 and as fas as i can tell it has no redundant ABS bits or fittings. Moral of the story, best ask if it has ABS to be sure if you go down this route.

As for the OP, why not cough up some extra $$ for locker and axles. Plenty of options for the P38: ARB, Ashcroft, E locker, TJM, Detroit, chinese knock offs.

MLD

[komaterpillar]

Can you get a detroit for the p38? I thought you couldn't?

[justinc]

Still doesn't address the poor design of the diff pinion to crownwheel relationship. It is unsaveable.

Jc

[dancol]

As for the OP, why not cough up some extra $$ for locker and axles. Plenty of options for the P38: ARB, Ashcroft, E locker, TJM, Detroit, chinese knock offs.

MLD

This is exactly what I've been thinking about. I'll never sell this car so I want to make sure I do the best thing long term. Guess its time to start the research on this.

I assume that buying an ARB locker replaces my dodgy diff? Ive been told it could be close to $2,000 for the rebuild. Looking at the current prices of ARB lockers fitted I'm not paying much more? Unless they also would need to rebuild my current diff?

Thanks heaps everyone for your help.

[DazzaTD5]

lol........

Justin C is a big fan of the Salisbury diff and he is correct in saying and "never have to worry about it again"

Basically I only started doing diff rebuilds again on the Land Rover Defender from that late Defender TD5 onwards to the point now I keep a few diffs in stock rebuilt and ready to go.

The problem especially with the Defender TDCi (puma) is poor crown wheel and pinion lapping, poor setup, average bearings.

If you rebuild it quickly (after it starts to make a grown) you wont end up with two wear patterns. If you leave it too long you will need to replace the crown wheel and pinion as well as bearings. For anyone that rebuilds diffs once the housing is on the bench its easy to determine what needs doing.

Regards
Daz

[4wheeler]

I'm having a Harrop e-locker fitted to the rear differential today. I received a phone call saying the pinion bearings were shot and needed replacing. The diff has done only 28,000Km. That's just sad. I had no indication of any problem as the thing ran silently - the diff, not the rest of the boom box.

The local dealers had none in stock and was advised of a 2 week wait. Fortunately a dealer put me on to Ritters Automotive here in Melbourne who had them in stock. I hope to get the Defender back by this evening, hopefully running well.

I wonder what the front diff is like?

[Marty90]

Still doesn't address the poor design of the diff pinion to crownwheel relationship. It is unsaveable.

Jc

what about diff pegging?

[DazzaTD5]

I'm having a Harrop e-locker fitted to the rear differential today. I received a phone call saying the pinion bearings were shot and needed replacing. The diff has done only 28,000Km. That's just sad. I had no indication of any problem as the thing ran silently - the diff, not the rest of the boom box.

The local dealers had none in stock and was advised of a 2 week wait. Fortunately a dealer put me on to Ritters Automotive here in Melbourne who had them in stock. I hope to get the Defender back by this evening, hopefully running well.

I wonder what the front diff is like?

Its common, drain the diff fluid at 30K on a Defender TDCi (puma) and the oil will be black.

If they are fitting a diff lock, e-locker etc then its normal to allow for new bearings during the install, both pinion and carrier.

2 weeks wait for a bearing, how ridiculous...
Any Timken bearing dealing will have both the pinion and carrier bearings in stock.

Regards
Daz

[justinc]

what about diff pegging?

On a 20,000km old vehicle?? Shouldn't be necessary. My sals now has some serious km on it as it has been in 3 vehicles now, 2 of them mine, and haven't replaced a bearing yet.

Jc

[1nando]

Put a e locker in it, hd axels and flanges all round and its good to go .
The P38 is a setup issue, once sorted you should not have any issues with it.
I learnt a lot of this after having 3 rear diffs. Get it rebuilt properly and forget the need to worry about it.

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[justinc]

Still rubbish design. Nothing can fix that. But hey we've been here before...😕

Jc

[1nando]

[QUOTE=justinc;2592699]Still rubbish design. Nothing can fix that. But hey we've been here before...😕

I think once setup correctly its a good diff, the bowler vehicles run 170-180hp with 470-500nm of torque and do not have any issues......

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[4wheeler]

Its common, drain the diff fluid at 30K on a Defender TDCi (puma) and the oil will be black.

If they are fitting a diff lock, e-locker etc then its normal to allow for new bearings during the install, both pinion and carrier.

2 weeks wait for a bearing, how ridiculous...
Any Timken bearing dealing will have both the pinion and carrier bearings in stock.

Regards
Daz

Thanks Daz.
The new bearings were Timken so now have new carrier and pinion bearings. Will check the oil regularly to see how it goes.

E-Locker install by Harrop was first class. Great to deal with and they followed a long list of my requests to the letter. I did the switch install using a Mulgo sourced diff lock switch so looks factory and no dash holes. No compressor or airlines to worry about. Now to try it out.

[POD]

what about diff pegging?

Pegging provides support to the crownwheel to prevent it flexing away from the pinion under extreme loads. The short pinion that Justin has brought up is a different problem.

The Ashcroft locker is a far better choice than the ARB. The ARB locker for this model has a design flaw that causes failures.

[DazzaTD5]

Regardless of what gets done to the P38 diff (the rear diff used in late model Defender TD5 and all TDCi (puma)) it isnt going to be as robust as the Salisbury rear diff it replaced.

The Salisbury is a Dana 60 just without the Dana 60 original axles, they are a known reliable just about bullet proof diff.

I just can't justify the cost nor can most customers in changing a rear end of a Defender over to a Salisbury diff, but if you want bullet proof then its the way to go.

Regards
Daz

P.S the Harrop E-Locker are a great bit of kit and have fitted to many Jeeps over the years

[justinc]

Regardless of what gets done to the P38 diff (the rear diff used in late model Defender TD5 and all TDCi (puma)) it isnt going to be as robust as the Salisbury rear diff it replaced.

The Salisbury is a Dana 60 just without the Dana 60 original axles, they are a known reliable just about bullet proof diff.

I just can't justify the cost nor can most customers in changing a rear end of a Defender over to a Salisbury diff, but if you want bullet proof then its the way to go.

Regards
Daz

P.S the Harrop E-Locker are a great bit of kit and have fitted to many Jeeps over the years

I'm in the opposite camp Daz, I have a hard time justifyingthe cost of rebuilding and locking a p38 diff that will fail again in the future. Especially for big tyred, loaded, touring and working defenders. My latest 'upgrade' is retubing the big uni frint tailshafts to fit the rear of defenders, especially 130s. The national parks one we work on here spends its time heavily loaded with a fire fightingunit etc and had alreadyspread a rear shaft yoke...😮

[DazzaTD5]

I'm in the opposite camp Daz, I have a hard time justifyingthe cost of rebuilding and locking a p38 diff that will fail again in the future. Especially for big tyred, loaded, touring and working defenders. My latest 'upgrade' is retubing the big uni frint tailshafts to fit the rear of defenders, especially 130s. The national parks one we work on here spends its time heavily loaded with a fire fightingunit etc and had alreadyspread a rear shaft yoke...😮

Not really, lets face it the average Defender TDCi (puma) owner isnt going to go down the path of lockers, there are far more "new" Land Rover owners driving Defender (TDCi, puma) models than any other Defender in the past so the P38 diff is going to last, with regular oil changes it will be fine. Compare the Defender rear diff to other wishy washy diffs like in the Discovery 3 or early Jeep Dana 30's and again its looking ok.

Yes if your looking at as you say the lockers, big tyres etc etc then the Salisbury is going to be the go.

Your looking at it wrong...
Your perspective is from a Land Rover powered Isuzu 110 owner where you are expecting it to all be ok for about 50 years :p :p :p

As for your sig...
"The Isuzu 110. Solid and as dependable as a rock" <=== thats because its as technically advanced and a similar age to a rock :) :) :)

thats not having a go by the way, I'm looking for one myself, as between D3, D4 repairs not to mention Jeeps I simply dont have time to work on my own vehicle :p

Regards
Daz

[isuzurover]

... I'll never sell this car so I want to make sure I do the best thing long term. ...

In this case the answer is very simple then. Fit a salisbury.

Mine cost $1k disc-disc with an ARB locker already fitted (this was a non-ABS version). I haven't needed to touch it. I replaced a salisbury with 400k km on the clock. Not because it was worn, just because it didn't have a locker. A new pinion seal and it would have been good for another 400k km.

[justinc]

Not really, lets face it the average Defender TDCi (puma) owner isnt going to go down the path of lockers, there are far more "new" Land Rover owners driving Defender (TDCi, puma) models than any other Defender in the past so the P38 diff is going to last, with regular oil changes it will be fine. Compare the Defender rear diff to other wishy washy diffs like in the Discovery 3 or early Jeep Dana 30's and again its looking ok.

Yes if your looking at as you say the lockers, big tyres etc etc then the Salisbury is going to be the go.

Your looking at it wrong...
Your perspective is from a Land Rover powered Isuzu 110 owner where you are expecting it to all be ok for about 50 years :p :p :p

As for your sig...
"The Isuzu 110. Solid and as dependable as a rock" <=== thats because its as technically advanced and a similar age to a rock :) :) :)

thats not having a go by the way, I'm looking for one myself, as between D3, D4 repairs not to mention Jeeps I simply dont have time to work on my own vehicle :p

Regards
Daz


Ha ha yes agree there too!
I'm starting to fit quite a few ftont and rear diffs to d3/4 now too ...
And yes i love my 'rock'. Hope you get to find a good one.

Jc

[inken_dave]

So the question is.......Who had a spare Salisbury axel complete unit that will fit with minimum fuss to a 2013 Puma?

Wish I'd kept my 1997 TDI 300....:mad:

[El Rey]

This reminds me of my time with old Fiats.

My 1971 Fiat 124 Sport has a diff which is not a world beater, but with little hassle you could upgrade to a diff from a later, slightly larger Fiat, the 131.

Of course those are now as rare and expensive as hen's teeth because every man and his dog want one.

[PAT303]

I have both and neither will be replaced by one of their own if they fail.If it comes to it I'm fitting a Ashcroft built rover,stock in the Tdi and a Disco ABS in the TDCi. Pat

[1nando]

I have both and neither will be replaced by one of their own if they fail.If it comes to it I'm fitting a Ashcroft built rover,stock in the Tdi and a Disco ABS in the TDCi. Pat

Disco abs?? Which year model Pat?
How much wprk is involved?

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[PAT303]

96 on had ABS and they are plentiful and cheap,when built to Ashcroft spec a rover diff has plenty of strength. Pat

[LR V8]

I've heard a whisper of a Puma diff recall on the way.... anyone else heard about it or have details ?

Pete

[komaterpillar]

I've heard a whisper of a Puma diff recall on the way.... anyone else heard about it or have details ?

Pete

Just the front? Or both front and rear?

[1nando]

96 on had ABS and they are plentiful and cheap,when built to Ashcroft spec a rover diff has plenty of strength. Pat

So a post 96 disco rear axle (with a rebuilt diff centre and new crown and pinion) is a straight bolt up into the puma?

Id imagine that the tailshaft would have to be shortened?

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[SSmith]

Not all post 96 have ABS - it was an option on all but top spec.

My 97 SE did not have ABS.

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[PAT303]

So a post 96 disco rear axle (with a rebuilt diff centre and new crown and pinion) is a straight bolt up into the puma?

Id imagine that the tailshaft would have to be shortened?

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They need bugger all mods to fit,the UK time trialers or what ever thier called do it to get more ground clearance,yes the tail shaft needs replacing as the original will be too short.Do a youtube search,they run them behind worked V8's without issue. Pat

[PAT303]

Not all post 96 have ABS - it was an option on all but top spec.

My 97 SE did not have ABS.

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I had a '96 SE with ABS,either way they are $150 disc to disc,Ashcroft HD CW&P in a 4 pin carrier with axles and your good to go. Pat