TDV8 Auxiliary Belt Refit Help

[Chilly]

Evening All,

I have the 3.6 TDV8.

For some reason the water pump pulley has come loose and sheared the bolts off.
I have refitted with new bolts but am having a hell of a job getting the belt back on.
I have the correct way/direction/location of the belt fitting on the pulleys but cannot get it on. With the tensioner all the way back it just is too tight.
I would appreciate thoughts or ideas on how to refit this belt!

Thanks in advance.
Chilly

[Roverlord off road spares]

Evening All,

I have the 3.6 TDV8.

For some reason the water pump pulley has come loose and sheared the bolts off.
I have refitted with new bolts but am having a hell of a job getting the belt back on.
I have the correct way/direction/location of the belt fitting on the pulleys but cannot get it on. With the tensioner all the way back it just is too tight.
I would appreciate thoughts or ideas on how to refit this belt!

Thanks in advance.
Chilly
Are you sure the bottom of the belt is sitting correctly in the crank pulley and not riding on the edge?

I have struck this on a couple of vehicles in the past. Reason some one before hand has fitted the wrong belt. Goodness knows how they got it on in the first place though I had this on a Nissan pulsar timing belt and also on a TD5 Defender , a customer took a belt off and refitting it it wouldn't go back on, they had to undo the A/C compressor bolts to allow the compressor pulley to tilt forward slightly to gain a 1mm or 2 to slide the tight belt back on.

116116
I had a look at Microcat and I think this is how the belt should be routed.

[Graeme]

From the WSM for the L320

116117

[Chilly]

Are you sure the bottom of the belt is sitting correctly in the crank pulley and not riding on the edge?

I have struck this on a couple of vehicles in the past. Reason some one before hand has fitted the wrong belt. Goodness knows how they got it on in the first place though I had this on a Nissan pulsar timing belt and also on a TD5 Defender , a customer took a belt off and refitting it it wouldn't go back on, they had to undo the A/C compressor bolts to allow the compressor pulley to tilt forward slightly to gain a 1mm or 2 to slide the tight belt back on.

116116
I had a look at Microcat and I think this is how the belt should be routed.

Thanks for replying.
Yes to belt being on the pulleys correctly....have checked many times whilst trying the get b lt on! Pretty frustrated as you may guess!

[Chilly]

From the WSM for the L320

116117

Thanks for that. Confirms I have it correct.

[Chilly]

Well, still having no luck getting this belt on. Seems way to tight.

Feels like some how it has shrink!!!

[Graeme]

Are you trying to slide it over a smooth, edge-less idler pulley or over one with ribs and an edge? The large idler pulley (#7) would be my choice as the small one is too close to the water pump pulley.

[Chilly]

Tried both

[Chilly]

Tried different pulleys etc. belt is just so short compared to Alternator belt to put on. Have got it correctly, as per topic, on

[Graeme]

At least your engine has a tensioner - my 4.4TDV8 doesn't for its stretch belt that requires a tool to run it on.

Does the tensioner have to be reset?

[Graeme]

The WSM doesn't make any reference to having to reset the tensioner.

Did you try fitting it over the tensioner, bottom first?

[Chilly]

Yes...and many other variations. Having a cuppa and a rest....will go back and retry shortly

[Nomad9]

Hi Chilly,
You have got the right belt? Mine was a bit tight however not as tight as you describe. My tensioner was partially seized I took it off and freed it up in a vice with some chain lube, went on a lot easier after that.
When you do get the belt on make sure you rotate the engine at least once to make sure the belt is on properly, you might have read when I started mine up after replacing the belt it shereaded after about five minutes of running and was a hells own job to get the shreaded belt off the crankshaft pulley.

Good luck............ omward and forward.

Cheers Marty

[Chilly]

Hi Chilly,
You have got the right belt? Mine was a bit tight however not as tight as you describe. My tensioner was partially seized I took it off and freed it up in a vice with some chain lube, went on a lot easier after that.
When you do get the belt on make sure you rotate the engine at least once to make sure the belt is on properly, you might have read when I started mine up after replacing the belt it shereaded after about five minutes of running and was a hells own job to get the shreaded belt off the crankshaft pulley.

Good luck............ omward and forward.

Cheers Marty

Yes to correct belt....it's the one what came off. Genuine Land Rover. Will order new one on Monday. The old one has some kinks in it!
Tensioner moves freely over a wide range.

Not seen your thread...have done a few searches too?

Thanks for advise

[justinc]

Sorry haven't replied to pm yet Chilly,

There are several ways that belt can go on. I agree it is a total pain however i don't remember it being tight to fit once i had discovered i was trying the wrong route. I just had a search on the net and there are a few photos of front on tdv8s but no actual diagrams. I take photos with my phone usually if I'm not familiar with a wiring plug or belt etc prior to disassembly.

Jc

[Nomad9]

Hi Chilly,
Here is the front of my TDV, see if yours is thesame. pictures aren't the best but they should give you an idea.

Cheers Marty

[Chilly]

Sorry haven't replied to pm yet Chilly,

There are several ways that belt can go on. I agree it is a total pain however i don't remember it being tight to fit once i had discovered i was trying the wrong route. I just had a search on the net and there are a few photos of front on tdv8s but no actual diagrams. I take photos with my phone usually if I'm not familiar with a wiring plug or belt etc prior to disassembly.

Jc

Thanks for responding.

I paid a subscription too Topix and downloaded a diagram. I have got it the correct way. Although I am gong to check again....just in case!!!

I do the photo thing too....but in this case the belt was already off!!

[Chilly]

Hi Chilly,
Here is the front of my TDV, see if yours is thesame. pictures aren't the best but they should give you an idea.

Cheers Marty

Great to see the pictures. Confirms I have it right!!

Chilly

[Chilly]

Hi Chilly,
You have got the right belt? Mine was a bit tight however not as tight as you describe. My tensioner was partially seized I took it off and freed it up in a vice with some chain lube, went on a lot easier after that.
When you do get the belt on make sure you rotate the engine at least once to make sure the belt is on properly, you might have read when I started mine up after replacing the belt it shereaded after about five minutes of running and was a hells own job to get the shreaded belt off the crankshaft pulley.

Good luck............ omward and forward.

Cheers Marty

I might just take the tensioner off and check it yes have full range of motion. Pretty sure it does but just in case!!

Thanks again!

[Chilly]

ok....measured belt length and get 1910mm give or take a couple of mm. Belt length should be 1956mm.

So that is the problem!

[Pedro_The_Swift]

sooooo-- wrong belt!
original??:o

good to know you're not going crazy--;):p

[Chilly]

Genuine belt with correct number. Belt states length as 1956 but actually 1910mm

[Roverlord off road spares]

I was going to suggest the belt was the incorrect length, but as you used the original belt that you took off, I didn't mention it .
So how in hell they they ever fit a smaller belt on in the first place, unless it shrunk somehow after you removed it?

[Narangga]

Evening All,

I have the 3.6 TDV8.

For some reason the water pump pulley has come loose and sheared the bolts off.
I have refitted with new bolts but am having a hell of a job getting the belt back on.
I have the correct way/direction/location of the belt fitting on the pulleys but cannot get it on. With the tensioner all the way back it just is too tight.
I would appreciate thoughts or ideas on how to refit this belt!

Thanks in advance.
Chilly


Genuine belt with correct number. Belt states length as 1956 but actually 1910mm

Not related are they?

[Graeme]

I wonder if the last person got the belt to fit by loosening the water pump pulley bolts then tightened them once fitted.

[Chilly]

Tried that way too.....still too tight!
New belts ordered. Hopefully here tomorrow if not Wednesday

[Chilly]

Not related are they?



Do not think so.....but not knowing th tightness of the belt prior to coming off?

[Chilly]

I was going to suggest the belt was the incorrect length, but as you used the original belt that you took off, I didn't mention it .
So how in hell they they ever fit a smaller belt on in the first place, unless it shrunk somehow after you removed it?

Good question!

Unless it got very hot when the pulley came of and shrunk/melted internally....

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I think "release the pump bolts slip belt on tighten bolts" is the winner--
but you wouldnt think they had the time (or tools) to do it on the production line--

[101RRS]

Exactly - so really the issue is:

1. Wrong belt; and or
2. One of the components in the pulley system is wrong: or
3. The route of the belt is wrong; or
4. The installation technique is wrong.

In reality when the tensioner is released the belt should go on, albiet with a little bit of pursuasion. If it will not go on it is one of the above - you should need to take things like water pumps off.

They are designed to go on - so to state the obvious, there is something not right if it doesn't. If in doubt read the manual.

Garry

[Chilly]

Exactly - so really the issue is:

1. Wrong belt; and or
2. One of the components in the pulley system is wrong: or
3. The route of the belt is wrong; or
4. The installation technique is wrong.

In reality when the tensioner is released the belt should go on, albiet with a little bit of pursuasion. If it will not go on it is one of the above - you should need to take things like water pumps off.

They are designed to go on - so to state the obvious, there is something not right if it doesn't. If in doubt read the manual.

Garry



Hi,
Whilst normally I would agree. In this case the belt has shrink.
I have stated previously that the belt has been measured and against a standard.
My belt removed is 1910mm
Belt should be 1956mm

New belt arrived today and fitted easily. Two minute job.
I have taken photo of new belt and old belt together to show the size difference.
I will attempt to add photo later when I have my phone with me.

So, Garry your statements would be correct for a correct length belt.

I thank everyone who has advised on this because I could not see what I could be doing wrong.....apparently nothing!

Thank you all

Chilly

[Chilly]

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15027568_10155199360040400_7487225055896326217_n.j pg?oh=a944093a2f780d9bc5b042b8396426bd&oe=5898B0A0

https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14992076_10155199360045400_7036250142173110509_n.j pg?oh=2e123db4f4e1273252054fdf76ca719b&oe=5898C9D9

Couple of pictures of new verses old belt. Difference in length is obvious!

Chilly

[Roverlord off road spares]

Chilly I did a google on belt shrinkage, and a lot say it's impossible, but I did see some info that if rubber is heated too much it can shrink so maybe that's what happened it shrunk, even though the "experts " reckon it cant. There are a few comments on google where people claimed their belts shrunk

[Chilly]

Chilly I did a google on belt shrinkage, and a lot say it's impossible, but I did see some info that if rubber is heated too much it can shrink so maybe that's what happened it shrunk, even though the "experts " reckon it cant. There are a few comments on google where people claimed their belts shrunk

Thats interesting to know....did not think of looking it up on google....ill have a look.

Happy to give my belt to 'the experts' for them to look at!!!

[Roverlord off road spares]

Thats interesting to know....did not think of looking it up on google....ill have a look.

Happy to give my belt to 'the experts' for them to look at!!!
google- serpentine belt shrinkage

[Roverlord off road spares]

Interesting I wonder if belts did in fact shrink, whether this could also be a cause of bearing failure on pulleys as the shorter 'shrunk" belts could put extra strain on bearings?????.

If belts do shrink it would explain why I could not refit a used Belt back onto my son's old Nissan pulsar, as I took the belt off to replace an alternator and couldn't get the existing belt back on.

[Graeme]

Couple of pictures of new verses old belt. Difference in length is obvious!The distortion of the old belt should have been the clue as normally even a well-used belt still retains its proper shape. The distorted old belt should not have been attempted to be refitted as it has obviously been subjected to excessive heat on at least part of its length.

[Jazzman]

Well, still having no luck getting this belt on. Seems way to tight.

Feels like some how it has shrink!!!


Yes they do shrink, on all cars. In this thread we can acknowledge a Nissan Pulsar, my TD5, this TDV8 and possibly one other from someone else's post in this thread. Plenty of cars are seen on the side of the road with broken belts, maybe they get 'too short'?

It is not really that hard to fathom is it? Logic suggest it would stretch but experience seems to suggest otherwise. It would be great if an engineer could confirm this. Perhaps this is why the 4.4 TDV8 doesn't have a tensioner because the belt gets smaller.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

until it breaks something?
or does normal servicing supposedly prevent this?

[tomo_]

Hi all,
I know it's old thread so apologies for bringing it up.
Im about to change belt and possibly some pulleys on my 3.6tdv8. The only way to access it is from top as I see?

So complete coolant drain is required before doing this?

[Chilly]

Hi all,
I know it's old thread so apologies for bringing it up.
Im about to change belt and possibly some pulleys on my 3.6tdv8. The only way to access it is from top as I see?

So complete coolant drain is required before doing this?

Hi, it’s a while so nice I done this but I am unsure whether I drained the coolant. For doing the belts I don’t think you do....but was a few years ago!