Dual thematic fans on 2.2 Puma 110

[Baytown]

G'day fellas.
While I have my front grill removed pending the new grill fitment and it's raining outside, are there any Cons to fitting a second thematic fan to my front.
Can you splice or jump connect them to the OEM fan power without any issues?
After seeing Dazzlers posts re his build, I've noticed more than a few trucks with dual fans.
Most will know I'm trying to give my110 the best cooling I can due to towing a van, and operating in serious heat inland.
I'm even going to relocate my ARB Intensities to the top of my ARB bar to clear the radiator area and improve cooling to the larger radiator and larger intercooler. Might not be a good look, but there you go.
Thanks in advance as I'd like to sort this mod ASAP before I put my front grill on.
Ken

[dazzler]

I don't tow, but cooling is always back of mind. I am replacing existing HID's (where you have the round intensity's) with following:

ARB 4?4 Accessories | (http://www.arb.com.au/new-intensity-light-bar/(on) order)

Also thinking about replacing the Driver side wingtop access panel cover with a vent "facing rearwards"

Additionally thinking about fashioning some sort scoop/underbody plate to channel underbody airflow upwards to the engine/Gear box etc )bit of f1 tech for the landy;)

pd

[Tombie]

No reason you couldn't fit it, but you'll need a second independent power relay - they're power hungry!

You won't need to move your lights, flow past them is significant and they aren't that large.

A light bar causes more air disruption for area than the round lights.

The underbelly scoop will cause more issues than it fixes - catching, throwing dirt, mud and rocks etc...

These vehicles aren't that marginal...

[dazzler]

Good agreeable point Tombie, but I have been wondering about a dual purpose steering guard. May be Ben(APT) is reading this :D and could fold the metal in such a way it will deflect the air upwards into the sump/gear box area, this will also help the heat displacement from under the gearbox tunnel.

Also exposing the windtop vents on both sides will help dissipate the engine bay heat build up, might have to source cold air for the heater box from the front grill or under the head light.

[Tombie]

APT is Ben [emoji41]

[jon3950]

Good agreeable point Tombie, but I have been wondering about a dual purpose steering guard. May be Scott(APT) is reading this :D and could fold the metal in such a way it will deflect the air upwards into the sump/gear box area, this will also help the heat displacement from under the gearbox tunnel.

Actually it won't. You need to draw air out of there rather than try to push more in. The transmission tunnel is a big box with nowhere for the air to escape, which is why the heat builds up so much.

I've been thinking about this a bit lately after a few hot days on the freeway where all the heat coming off the transmission tunnel has made the cabin a bit too hot. I can't think of any sensible way of doing it without introducing the problems Tombie pointed out. It's a Defender after all, not a racecar.

I think the best way to get the heat out would be with bonnet vents, but I've come to the conclusion that it will be easier to invest in some more heat insulation around the transmission to solve my problem. That doesn't help with your cooling problem but I tend to think we're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Cheers,
Jon

[Tombie]

Most vehicles get very hot in the tunnel - most just have a shed load of insulation [emoji6]

[jon3950]

Most vehicles get very hot in the tunnel - most just have a shed load of insulation [emoji6]

True, but I think the design of the Defender's seatbox exacerbates the problem. It makes the transmission tunnel a big box with a closed end that traps the hot air.

I've sat in plenty of cars that are just a bare shell and don't ever recall feeling heat coming off the tunnel like in my Defender.

Travelling on the freeway on hot days, it doesn't take long for the centre of the back of the seat box (ie, the back face of the transmission tunnel) to become too hot to touch. I've had a few days now when this heat has overcome the air conditioning.

I don't think this affects the cooling system though as there is plenty of airflow underneath the car.

Cheers,
Jon

[DazzaTD5]

As a few of you have already mentioned.... air flow out of the engine is a big part of engine cooling.

I'm going through a few things with reducing engine bay heat in diesel JK Jeep Wranglers due to higher than expect engine failures, some of the items I've done may be of interest...

*Bonnet venting, as in rearward facing vents, while this isnt legal in most states (as apparently if you have a oil leak it could somehow spray over the windscreen), but I'm thinking on a Defender TDCi, the back of the power bulge would be an ideal spot to have a vent.

*Nothing wrong with adding twin electric fans, Some of you will remember the Range Rover classic, 110 V8, Discovery 1 had twins, Disco 2, Defenders had one.

*Another, while requiring a bit more nutting out is adding a remote engine oil cooler, which also increases engine oil capacity.

I havent had or seen any Defender TDCi (puma) models with over heating issues, and the above is trying to answer the OP's question.

Regards
Daz

[DazzaTD5]

Also thinking about replacing the Driver side wingtop access panel cover with a vent "facing rearwards"

Additionally thinking about fashioning some sort scoop/underbody plate to channel underbody airflow upwards to the engine/Gear box etc )bit of f1 tech for the landy;)

pd

The rearward facing wing vents I think would work better if there was some ducting going to them from the rear of the engine bay.

Getting the air into the engine bay isnt too hard to achieve, but if the heated air cant escape then it wont achieve as much.

Regards
Daz

[dazzler]

The Thread has moved on by the looks. Do we have a rearward facing vent readily available?

Thanks for your valuable input Daz,

Bruce Davis is already selling a cooler kit for extra oil etc and spin on filter conversion. I for one haven't gone down this route yet, but interesting solution.

here:

2.2 :Buy 2.2Lt Engine Oil Cooler & Spin-on Oil Filter Conversion Kit (http://davisperformance.com.au/engine/2.2lt-engine-oil-cooler-and-spin-on-oil-filter-conversion-kit.html)
2.4 : Buy 2.4Lt & 2.2Lt Engine Oil Cooler & Spin-on Oil Filter Conversion Kit (http://davisperformance.com.au/engine/2.4lt-engine-oil-cooler-and-spin-on-oil-filter-conversion-kit.html)

for now I will keep exploring options to remove as much heat out as possible also find a solution for the heater box gap issue.

[Baytown]

What a great modification!
This threat has morphed to general cooling mods for the Puma, but that's great.Bring them on!
Can't sleep, bugger.
Ken.

[SSmith]

Bruce davis kit looks the goods. Exy though and looks like the filter will be hanging too low for my liking

I have been eyeing off the modified filter housings for the Transit too, can then use a universal remote oil cooler and/or remote oil filter kit.

Need to measure up/talk to sellers as none are listed for Defender. I have noticed the defender filter housing has a ford logo on it, i have not gone as far as cross referencing part numbers..... yet.

Sent from my SM-G800F using AULRO mobile app

[Tombie]

Remember. A transaction is when 2 fools meet [emoji6]

So the questions that should be answered first:

Is there enough oil in the system already?
Is there sufficient cooling to handle all operating conditions?
Is the oil always operating within parameters?

Then let's add...

Does the system alter operating pressure?
How much thermal drag does the additional cooler add to the other cooling systems?
How does one drain/prime the cooler when doing oil changes?
The extra depth of the spacer lowers the filter - any risk?

It's the nature of people to think they can improve on a team of engineers testing under controlled conditions...

In this instance, the same engine has been used in Transits etc under fully loaded conditions for years without a single problem - we have a fleet owner here - most engines are at 300,000+ km now and always fully loaded operating in all weather conditions..

[SSmith]

Remember. A transaction is when 2 fools meet

But ive never met you.

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[Beery]

That Davis setup looks like more trouble than its worth. Lots of hose fittings to come loose...
I'm starting to sound like a real stick in the mud on this forum (sorry Ken) but all in the name of giving heplful advice.

If you're trying maximise the cooling capacity margin on your vehicle, it might be worth looking at it with a "Less is More" approach. Such as:


Reduce the glycol concentration in your coolant from 50/50 down to say 70/30 or 80/20 and add a water wetter (don't forget to chuck in some extra corrosion inhibitor if going to 80/20). This will allow the cooling system to dump heat more efficiently. With greater cooling capacity, your temps should be more stable and make it worthwhile to change to the lower temp PEL500110 thermostat.
Convert your aircon to "Hychill" or other hydrocarbon refrigerant. This gives much lower operating pressures, less drag on the engine and colder cabin temps.
With 'Hychill' you can then REMOVE the electric condenser fan (sounds illogical for better cooling) because of the lower pressures in the condenser. The fan is just an obstruction to airflow for 99% of the time and does nothing for engine cooling. As would be an auxilliary thermo fan and an auxilliary oil cooler and filter out front.
The puma already has a water cooled oil cooler built in. If you get the coolant running cooler, your oil will also be cooler. So will the fuel.
Instead of the Davis conversion, why not just convert to the genuine spin on oil filter/oil cooler of the later 2.2 Puma. Might be cheaper.
The ~$500 you would have spent on the Evans conversion, spend that on insulating the cabin instead. This will further reduce load on the improved aircon system.
Remove the exhaust catalyst if you're ethically comfortable doing so. It's another obstruction to airlfow through the engine bay, heats everything around it and is a fire risk if you're out in the scrub.



If you're not familiar with water wetters, wetting agents, surfactants etc. This is a good video:

https://youtu.be/vEvwjGmPIzI




Cheers
Tom

[Tombie]

But ive never met you.

Sent from my SM-G800F using AULRO mobile app


Hahahaha!!!


One of the aftermarket industries biggest successes is convincing people they need stuff!!!!

There are a few must haves
Several should haves
Plenty of nice to haves

And a ridiculous quantity of "Got to haves because it sounds like I should"

[SSmith]

Hahahaha!!!
There are a few must haves
Several should haves
Plenty of nice to haves


Glad there are a few people in the world with a sense of humour left.
Seen a few spetacular barnies this week, one even involved an iron bar.

"Tis the season to be grumpy" erm......

Still trying to figure out which is the must have etc.

So do you think the extra heat generated by a remap warrants extra cooling?, intercooler is a must (imo) just considering the rest of the system.

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[Beery]

Out of interest, does anyone know where the oil temp is measured in the puma? Is it part of that multifunction probe in the sump that does oil level/dilution etc?