Tubed and tubeless 3 spoke alloys

[Meccles]

Does anyone know the difference between the genuine LR RRC 3 spoke alloys in tubed, and tubeless? I have an old set marked Tubed - but see that later ones are tubeless. What's the difference?

[Davo]

As with all tubeless rims, there's a little "hump" running around the circumference next to the bead. It's supposed to help keep the tyre on the rim if it goes flat, whereas I guess the idea before was the tube would do that.

I've got tubeless three-spokes on mine but tubed for the two spares because I still haven't found some more tubeless rims. I don't like this because modern tyres aren't supposed to have tubes inside as they can rub through from the rough interior of the tyre and go flat.

[Meccles]

Yeah that's my worry. Fitting tubes to modern tubeless Tyre and having Tyre wear holes in tube.:(

[LandyAndy]

The tube welds to the ribs in the tubeless tyre causing a failure on the tube.
The tyre will go flat,but not instantly like a blow out.
The trick is to put LOTS of talcum powder in when mounting the tyres,it helps.
Andrew

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

As with all tubeless rims, there's a little "hump" running around the circumference next to the bead. It's supposed to help keep the tyre on the rim if it goes flat, whereas I guess the idea before was the tube would do that.

I've got tubeless three-spokes on mine but tubed for the two spares because I still haven't found some more tubeless rims. I don't like this because modern tyres aren't supposed to have tubes inside as they can rub through from the rough interior of the tyre and go flat.

I have 3 RRC tubeless 3 spokes in Bunbury if you want them.

[Davo]

Certainly! I'll send a PM. Thanks.

[Davo]

Not An Abba Fan, did you ever get the PMs I sent?

[Meccles]

I picked up a full set from British Offroad and they took my tube style rims

[Homestar]

I don't have the details handy, but there are tyre manufacturers that state in their literature that their tyres can be fitted to tube type rims without tubes - I was shown this at a car show a couple of months back, but can't remember which manufacture, or what tyres it referred to - it did relate to their Australian offerings so I would have thought if the tyre manufacturer was happy to do this, there shouldn't be any issues . While I know this has been discussed in great detail before, I haven't seen any documentation to say doing this is actually illegal (although I'm happy to stand corrected). I run the tyres on my trailer tubeless on old series rims, but not currently with any vehicle, but I will be soon - it will be going through a proper roadworthy eventually, so I guess I'll know then for sure... :D

Just a thought.

[PLR]

Does anyone know the difference between the genuine LR RRC 3 spoke alloys in tubed, and tubeless? I have an old set marked Tubed - but see that later ones are tubeless. What's the difference?


Tubes and Tubeless - A Guide | LandyZone - Land Rover Forum (https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/tubes-and-tubeless-a-guide.263036/)

[Homestar]

Tubes and Tubeless - A Guide | LandyZone - Land Rover Forum (https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/tubes-and-tubeless-a-guide.263036/)

All good stuff but from the UK so nothing actually showing the legalities of using a tubeless tyre on a tube style rim without tube here in Australia.

While I get the tyre could pop off the rim under cornering - I think you'd have to be pushing quite hard with quite low pressures to manage this. It's not like Land Rovers are high performance vehicles when it comes to handling... :D

Would love to see something conclusive - either way, but does it mean if it's not strictly forbidden then it's ok to do?

[PLR]

All good stuff but from the UK so nothing actually showing the legalities of using a tubeless tyre on a tube style rim without tube here in Australia.

While I get the tyre could pop off the rim under cornering - I think you'd have to be pushing quite hard with quite low pressures to manage this. It's not like Land Rovers are high performance vehicles when it comes to handling... :D

Would love to see something conclusive - either way, but does it mean if it's not strictly forbidden then it's ok to do?

G`day ,

they have a interest if the tyre says tubeless and they say must be fitted with a tube but nothing more that i read . They being Vicroads .

There is another place i need to look yet .

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/My%20Documents/Downloads/VSI26_1212_WEB%20(2).pdf

I`m not very good with computers .

If you Google roadworthy requirement vic roads , you`ll see the pdf and understand what i meant , maybe

[PLR]

G`day ,

they have a interest if the tyre says tubeless and they say must be fitted with a tube but nothing more that i read . They being Vicroads .

There is another place i need to look yet .

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/My%20Documents/Downloads/VSI26_1212_WEB%20(2).pdf

I`m not very good with computers .

If you Google roadworthy requirement vic roads , you`ll see the pdf and understand what i meant , maybe


If you were able to view the pdf from Vicroads the link is the book that they say matters .

The trouble is the book that matters says that " All information is to be considered Advisory "

The book is Australia wide not just Vic .

If it were bought it would be around $70 my interest is not that great .

Standards manual 2015 edition / by the Tyre and Rim Association of Australia. - Version details - Trove (http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/199163071'selectedversion=NBD55842810&q&versionId=227319277)

I should have said earlier that although the post is about alloys that the steel Rostyle rims are in the same boat some are tubed and some are tubeless .

[Homestar]

G`day ,

they have a interest if the tyre says tubeless and they say must be fitted with a tube but nothing more that i read . They being Vicroads .

There is another place i need to look yet .

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/My%20Documents/Downloads/VSI26_1212_WEB%20(2).pdf

I`m not very good with computers .

If you Google roadworthy requirement vic roads , you`ll see the pdf and understand what i meant , maybe

Yeah, all it says is the following which doesn't seem to preclude using tubeless tyres on tube style rims.

All pneumatic tyres not marked “Tubeless” must be fitted with a tube and all retreaded tyres must be marked with the identification of the retreader and the word “Retreaded” and any other markings required by the relevant Australian Standard.

[Mercguy]

The only issue worth being concerned about is the early B style rim lip versus later J / JJ style rim lip profiles.
The later JJ style is a double-depth lip designed to hold the bead seat band in deeper against the rims lip, with the lips additional depth is there to simply locate the bead seat band and prevent it from rolling off when the pressure is low, and also in blowout situations.

It's primarily the latter reason - not the former, which predicates the legislation, as it was seen at the time to be more dangerous situation to encounter and controlling a vehicle at speed with a sudden blowout is an interesting exercise.

Because of the modern steel belted radial construction of most (not all) passenger vehicle tyres (yes that includes 4x4's) the bead seat band and sidewalls are relatively stiff, compared to the cotton weave crossply tyres of years gone by.

Rather than worry too much about the rim, concern yourself primarily with the tyre construction, the load index, speed rating and whether or not it is LT rated (Light truck) which provides for many more plies in the sidewall construction, than a regular passenger vehicle tyre.

Yes, LT rated tyres don't bag out as easily, but they sure as hell can take punishment, and the stiffer sidewall does help you to control a vehicle with underinflated tyres, prevent the bead seat band from rolling off the lip and provide extra safety margin in a blowout situation.

If your rim is marked 15x7 J or 16x7 J or 16x7 JJ then you can safely run tubless tyres. Just change out the valve stem for a proper solid stainless one, not a pull-through. Or buy a TPMS and fit that up.

Of course, we've not discussed the particulars - the tube rim valve stem seal/hole , nor the use of internal beadlocks, nor porosity.

In converting a quality tubed alloy rim to tubless, it firstly must be made airtight. Don't laugh. Many older rims are quite porous and will develop slow leaks over time. Using a solid brass or stainless steel valve stem, rather than the pull-through rubber ones, will go some way to prevent leaks around the stem. In the case of multi-piece alloy wheels with split barrels, then the internal surface of the rim should be sealed with a varnish or powdercoated - this also prevents internal corrosion. It's not a bad idea to clean up old rims, remove the rubber chafing and apply a nice coat of sealant (varnish / paint / powdercoat) not silicone worms.

Lastly, internal beadlocks provide the additional safety mechanism for tubed rims when running tubless tyres.. "Second Air" type internal beadlocks are worth every cent, and serve an additional purpose, that being you can safely air down your tyres to below atmospheric pressure and still retain a full seating bond to the rim lip due to the inner beadlock.

I'm a firm believer that internal beadlocks serve as an additional safety mechanism over and above the JJ safety rim extra bead seat lip, and if going offroad, enhance the vehicles traction capability enormously. But on a B profile rim they should be mandatory.

Here's a schematic to help you understand why the rim profile is the issue. it is simply a matter of surface area, and contact profile.
121612


The whole tube versus tubless thing has been going on for decades.... since tubless rims appeared on the market.

Len Beadell had sound words of advice and I still carry spare tubes for the same reasons mentioned below.
Beadell Tours - Tubes for Tyres by Mick Hutton (http://www.beadelltours.com.au/tubes.html)

[Meccles]

I've now got 5 of later rims that say "tubeless" and JJ so I won't be using tubes👍🏻

[Meccles]

See post above went for Michelin Latitude Cross 235/70 R16

[Davo]

Those Range Rover three-spokes are handy in the way they're marked "tubeless". The old ones I've got are marked 16K and so are certainly not tubeless. I never did hear back from what's-'is-name, (but then I never did have much luck with buying from this forum), so I'll have to start searching again here in Toyota country.

[Meccles]

Sent you a pm

[Davo]

And I got it. Thanks very much.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Sorry, I don't really get on here that often and I don't get notifications. I replied to your PM.