URGENT: NEED HELP WITH ELECTRICAL PROBLEM ON THE ROAD

[Smcconnell]

Hey Gents,

Could use some advice. On the highway - all of a sudden, all windows opened and rear view mirrors retracted. Managed to close all windows except driver's window now stays open.

Tried switching off the car. Nothing is working so far.

Thanks,
Steven

[mr_squiggle]

Couple of questions.
Any trailers/vans connected?
Any other electrical loads such as fridges in use?
Any second battery system fitted?
Do you have a scan tool with you?

[Smcconnell]

Couple of questions.
Any trailers/vans connected?
Any other electrical loads such as fridges in use?
Any second battery system fitted?
Do you have a scan tool with you?

No to all of the above.

[LRD414]

I would try a hard reset before anything else Steven. Even just disconnecting the battery and reconnecting after 1-2 minutes should be enough for full reset of all ECUs. It's quite simple to disconnect the negative terminal. Electrical gremlins often seem to relate back to an unhealthy battery although your symptoms are not common. Having said that, if the driver window is not responding at all, that could point towards a dodgy connection related to the window switch pack or the window motor. As always checking for fault codes is likely to be instructive. Not sure if you know anyone with one (fault reading is not VIN locked).

Good luck,
Scott

[Grentarc]

This may help with finding someone with a diagnostic tool
Members with Diagnostic Equipment map (updated 1/2015) (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/electronic-diagnostic-systems/213489-members-diagnostic-equipment-map-updated-1-2015-a.html)
Members with Diagnostic Tools (https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer'mid=1eMhOMYn-6BxvzAJPJ2WEbEXcPcA&ll=-36.938642482628275%2C150.22795104882812&z=7)

[mr_squiggle]

Could be the wiring to the window control switches on the driver door too. It's the "master control" point.
I have a scan tool if that helps. Currently up at Rainbow Beach until tomorrow morning, then heading back to the Sunshine Coast.

[Smcconnell]

Thanks for the input, gents - really appreciate it.

I just tried a hard reset, Scott. No effect.

Checked fuses, relays, etc. Seem to be fine.

It's probably the mirrors/windows control bundle. I pulled off the door card and played around with as much wiring as I could, but none of it helped.

Last year, when I was on Fraser, I had the window down and quite a bit of water splashed inside at some point - enough to make the speaker grille rust. I suspect that this current problem is associated with that little incident.

Now we're stuck in Cobargo, 5 hours to go until we get to Sydney. Very reluctant to drive the whole way with the window down - storms are forecast for most of the afternoon. Waiting for roadside assist.

Steven

[bee utey]

If you have the door card off maybe you could unplug the window motor and tickle it into action with some jumper leads.

[mr_squiggle]

Hi Steven, if you've had salt water in the switch block you may be able to get going by removing the switch assembly, pulling it apart & giving it a good clean with a firm toothbrush & metho. You're looking for small tendril like tracks between the switch contacts and these can/will conduct small amounts of electricity due to the salt content, particularly in humid conditions.
Don't forget to look at the connector to the wiring loom, in between the pins. In fact start there before you pull the switch block apart.
Given your description of Fraser Island it's unlikely to be the cabling at all.

[Smcconnell]

Hi Steven, if you've had salt water in the switch block you may be able to get going by removing the switch assembly, pulling it apart & giving it a good clean with a firm toothbrush & metho. You're looking for small tendril like tracks between the switch contacts and these can/will conduct small amounts of electricity due to the salt content, particularly in humid conditions.
Don't forget to look at the connector to the wiring loom, in between the pins. In fact start there before you pull the switch block apart.
Given your description of Fraser Island it's unlikely to be the cabling at all.

Hey.

That's a great tip. How do I pull out the switch assembly?

Steven

[LRD414]

Looking at manual, the Switch Pack seems to be removed by lifting straight up, there's a clip on each of the four sides. There is 3 wiring connectors plugged in to its base.

There is also another control module within the door for passing signals to the other windows. Each of the other 3 doors has a hardwired connection for just itself and can receive a signal from the master switch pack.

Scott

[LRD414]

The switch pack is connected to the Driver Door Module, which directly drives the window motor and provides a canbus connection to control the other windows. So you need to investigate that module's connections and the door motor connections. The module can't be completely broken if it's still sending signals to control the other windows. However, if the other windows only work from their own switches then the driver door module could be broken.

Scott

[letherm]

Hi,

This is a diagnostic chart from the workshop manual. Unfortunately the formatting disappeared when I copied it. It contains a 3 column table (Sympotom/Possible Causes/Action) so if you keep that in mind you may glean some useful info. Following that table is a 2 column Pinpoint Test list that is referred to in the diagnotic table (eg Go to A3 means go to pinpoint test A3). Sorry I can't get it any better. Hopefully it will help you. Good Luck.[bigsmile1]

Martin

Glass, Frames and Mechanisms - Glass, Frames and Mechanisms
Diagnosis and Testing
Principle of Operation
For a detailed description of the glass, frames and mechanisms and operation, refer to the relevant Description and
Operation section of the workshop manual. REFER to: Glass, Frames and Mechanisms (501-11 Glass, Frames and
Mechanisms, Description and Operation).
Inspection and Verification
CAUTION: Diagnosis by substitution from a donor vehicle is NOT acceptable. Substitution of control modules does
not guarantee confirmation of a fault and may also cause additional faults in the vehicle being checked and/or the donor
vehicle.
• NOTE: Check and rectify basic faults before beginning diagnostic routines involving pinpoint tests.
1. Verify 1. the customer concern.
2. 2. Visually inspect for obvious signs of mechanical or electrical damage.
Visual Inspection
Mechanical Electrical
Window control switches condition and installation
Window motors/regulators
Window channels/runners
Window cables
Door window glass retaining brackets
Fuses
Harnesses and connectors
Window lift relay
Window control switches
Window motors
3. If an obvious cause for an observed or reported concern is found, correct the cause (if possible) before
proceeding to the next step.
3.
4. If the cause is not visually evident, verify the symptom and refer to the Symptom Chart, alternatively check for
Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) and refer to the DTC Index.
4.
Symptom Chart
Symptom Possible Causes Action
Window(s)
inoperative
Fuse(s)
Switch fault
Front switch isolator fault
Motor/Regulator fault
Channel/Runner fault
Cable fault
Harness fault
Check the fuses. Check the suspect window operation from the
individual door switch and from the driver door master switch (it
is unlikely that both switches would fail at the same time, so if
the window is inoperative from either switch, suspect a fault
other than a switch). If the inoperative window is a rear unit,
check the function of the isolator at the master switch.
If the concern persists and a noise cannot be heard when
operating the door window glass, GO to Pinpoint Test B.
Window(s)
'one-shot'
function
inoperative
Window motor
initialization required
Switch fault
• NOTE: Do not install a new door window regulator motor for this
concern.
If the battery has been disconnected, carry out the initialization
procedure.
REFER to: Door Window Motor Initialization (501-11 Glass, Frames and
Mechanisms, General Procedures).
Check the switch function after initialization.
Rear window
does not
defrost
Fuse
Switch fault
Relay fault
Element fault
Circuit fault
Check fuse. Check the operation of the heated rear window switch and
relay. Check the element for continuity. Check the heated rear window
circuit. Refer to the electrical guides.
Window(s)
noisy during
operation
Channel/Runner fault
Cable fault
Motor/Regulator fault
• NOTE: Door window glass retaining bracket adjustment procedure
GO to Pinpoint Test A.
Slow or partial
window
operation
Fuse
Switch fault
Relay fault
Element fault
Circuit fault
GO to Pinpoint Test C.
Rear door
window glass
bounce back
Window motor
initialization required
(using the manufacturers
approve diagnostic system
)
• NOTE: Do not install a new door window regulator motor for this
concern.
Refer to IDS/SDD.
1
2
1
2
1
1
1
1
Symptom Possible Causes Action
Front door
window glass
bounce back
Window motor
initialization required
Channel/Runner fault
• NOTE: Do not install a new door window regulator motor for this
concern.
GO to Pinpoint Test D.
DTC Index
For a list of Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) that could be logged on this vehicle, please refer to Section 100-00.
REFER to: Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) Index - DTC: Driver/Passenger Door Module (DDM/PDM) (100-00 General
Information, Description and Operation).
Pinpoint Test
PINPOINT TEST A : WINDOW(S) NOISY DURING OPERATION
TEST
CONDITIONS
DETAILS/RESULTS/ACTIONS
A1: CHECK THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS IS SECURE
Remove the door window glass outer waist seal.
Check if the door glass installed correctly and secured to the door window regulator.
Is the door window glass correctly installed and secure?
Yes
GO to A2.
No
Install a new door window glass as necessary.
REFER to: Front Door Window Glass (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and
Installation) /
Rear Door Window Glass (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and Installation).
A2: CHECK THE OPERATION OF THE DOOR WINDOW REGULATOR MOTOR
Remove the door window glass as necessary.
REFER to: Front Door Window Glass (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and
Installation) /
Rear Door Window Glass (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and Installation).
Operate the door window regulator four times.
Does the door window regulator operate correctly (without noise)?
Yes
Ensure that an anti-rattle pad (available from the parts department) is installed to the door
window glass retaining bracket and installed correctly.
REFER to: Front Door Window Glass (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and
Installation).
Test the system for normal operation. If the concern persists,GO to A3.
No
Install a new door window regulator motor as necessary.
REFER to: Front Door Window Regulator and Motor (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms,
Removal and Installation) /
Rear Door Window Regulator and Motor (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and
Installation).
A3: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS FREE FROM FOREIGN MATERIAL
Check for any foreign material or obstruction in the door window glass seal.
Is the door window glass seal free from foreign material?
Yes
GO to A4.
No
Remove any foreign material from door window glass seal and lubricate the seal. Test the system
for normal operation.
A4: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS INSTALLED CORRECTLY
Check that the door window glass seal is installed correctly.
Is the door window glass seal installed correctly?
Yes
GO to A5.
No
Install the door window glass seal correctly. Test the system for normal operation.
A5: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS NOT WORN IN THE CHANNELS
Visually check that the door window glass seal is not worn in the door channels.
Is the door window glass seal worn in the channels?
Yes
Install a new door window glass seal as necessary. Test the system for normal operation.
No
Install the door window glass and adjust the door window glass. Test the system for normal
operation.
PINPOINT TEST B : WINDOW(S) INOPERATIVE (MOTOR NOISE CANNOT BE HEARD)
TEST
CONDITIONS
DETAILS/RESULTS/ACTIONS
B1: CHECK FOR DOOR WINDOW REGULATOR MOTOR NOISE
Operate the door window regulator motor as necessary.
Is there a noise from the door window regulator motor when operated?
Yes
GO to B2.
No
1
1
1
1
2
1
1
1
1
Install a new door window regulator motor as necessary.
REFER to: Front Door Window Regulator and Motor (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal
and Installation) /
Rear Door Window Regulator and Motor (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and
Installation).
B2: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS FREE FROM FOREIGN MATERIAL
Check for any foreign material or obstruction in the door window glass seal.
Is the door window glass seal free from foreign material?
Yes
GO to B3.
No
Remove any foreign material from door window glass seal and lubricate the seal. Test the system for
normal operation.
B3: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS INSTALLED CORRECTLY
Check that the door window glass seal is installed correctly.
Is the door window glass seal installed correctly?
Yes
GO to B4.
No
Install the door window glass seal correctly. Test the system for normal operation.
B4: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS NOT WORN IN THE CHANNELS
Visually check that the door window glass seal is not worn in the door channels.
Is the door window glass seal worn in the channels?
Yes
Install a new door window glass seal as necessary. Test the system for normal operation.
No
Install the door window glass. Adjust the door window glass referring to the door window glass
retaining bracket procedure at the end of this section (see below). Test the system for normal
operation. If the concern persists, Test the system for normal operation.
PINPOINT TEST C : SLOW OR PARTIAL WINDOW OPERATION
TEST
CONDITIONS
DETAILS/RESULTS/ACTIONS
C1: CHECK THE OPERATION OF THE DOOR WINDOW REGULATOR MOTOR
Remove the door window glass as necessary.
REFER to: Front Door Window Glass (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and
Installation) /
Rear Door Window Glass (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and Installation).
Operate the door window regulator as necessary.
Does the door window regulator operate correctly?
Yes
GO to C2.
No
GO to C5.
C2: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS FREE FROM FOREIGN MATERIAL
Check for any foreign material or obstruction in the door window glass seal.
Is the door window glass seal free from foreign material?
Yes
GO to C3.
No
Remove any foreign material from door window glass seal and lubricate the seal. Test the system
for normal operation.
C3: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS INSTALLED CORRECTLY
Check that the door window glass seal is installed correctly.
Is the door window glass seal installed correctly?
Yes
GO to C4.
No
Install the door window glass seal correctly. Test the system for normal operation.
C4: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS NOT WORN IN THE CHANNELS
Visually check that the door window glass seal is not worn in the door channels.
Is the door window glass seal worn in the channels?
Yes
Install a new door window glass seal as necessary. Test the system for normal operation.
No
Adjust the door window glass referring to the door window glass retaining bracket procedure at
the end of this section (see below). Test the system for normal operation.
C5: CHECK THE VOLTAGE TO THE DOOR WINDOW REGULATOR MOTOR
• NOTE: The door window regulator motor can be removed from the regulator. Install a new door window regulator
motor not the complete assembly for this concern.
Using a multimeter, check the voltage to the door window regulator motor.
Is the voltage greater than 10 volts?
Yes
Install a new door window regulator motor as necessary.
No
Repair the wiring harness. Test the system for normal operation. If the concern continues, install a
new door window regulator motor as necessary.
PINPOINT TEST D : FRONT DOOR WINDOW GLASS BOUNCE BACK
1
1
1
1
1
2
TEST
CONDITIONS
DETAILS/RESULTS/ACTIONS
D1: CHECK WINDOW MOTOR INITIALIZATION
Initialize the door window motor.
REFER to: Door Window Motor Initialization (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, General
Procedures).
Did the initialization work?
Yes
Test the system for normal operation.
No
GO to D2.
D2: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS FREE FROM FOREIGN MATERIAL
Check for any foreign material or obstruction in the door window glass seal.
Is the door window glass seal free from foreign material?
Yes
GO to D3.
No
Remove any foreign material from door window glass seal and lubricate the seal. Test the system for
normal operation.
D3: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS INSTALLED CORRECTLY
Check that the door window glass seal is installed correctly.
Is the door window glass seal installed correctly?
Yes
GO to D4.
No
Install the door window glass seal correctly. Test the system for normal operation.
D4: CHECK THAT THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS SEAL IS NOT WORN IN THE CHANNELS
Visually check that the door window glass seal is not worn in the door channels.
Is the door window glass seal worn in the channels?
Yes
Install a new door window glass seal as necessary. Test the system for normal operation.
No
GO to D5.
D5: CHECK THE DOOR WINDOW GLASS IS SECURE
Remove the door window glass outer waist seal.
Check if the door glass installed correctly and secured to the door window regulator.
Is the door window glass correctly installed and secure?
Yes
Test the system for normal operation.
No
Adjust the door window glass referring to the door window glass retaining bracket procedure in this
procedure. Test the system for normal operation. If the concern persists, install a new door window
regulator motor as necessary.
REFER to: Front Door Window Regulator and Motor (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal
and Installation).
Door window glass retaining bracket adjustment procedure
1. Remove the door window glass as necessary.
REFER to: Front Door Window Glass (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and Installation) /
Rear Door Window Glass (501-11 Glass, Frames and Mechanisms, Removal and Installation).
1.
2. Check for any foreign material or obstruction in the door window glass seal and channels. Clean all areas prior to
adjustment to allow correct alignment.
2.
3. Release but do not remove the door window glass retaining 3. bracket(s) bolt(s).
4. Push the door window glass retaining bracket(s) to the edge of the door window glass to achieve minimum
parallel gap.
4.
5. Tighten the door window glass retaining bracket(s) bolt(s).
Tighten the retaining bolt(s) to 6Nm.
5.

[mr_squiggle]

You have to remove the door trim. Have a look at the installation video to see how: DISCOVERY 4 (http://www.clearviewmirrors.com.au/13390/DISCOVERY-4/)
Once you have the door trim off the connection will be evident. Then look at the clips under the switch to see how to remove it.
Assembly is the reverse.

[Smcconnell]

Thank you everyone. So, here's the latest.

NRMA guy came, scratched his head, ran a few electrical tests and left. I asked him to create a temporary window in the form of a plastic sheet and he complied. After driving for one kilometre, however, I realised that his attempt would need to be optimised - at 90km/hr and higher the plastic created so much buffeting and noise that I felt like I was being blasted into space on a rocket.

Detour to the nearest shopping centre + 4 rolls of electrical tape + 1 roll of masking tape = voila! See photos attached.

Could be neater - especially on the inside - but workable enough to make 5 hours on the highway palatable. It means I can nurse the car home today and start pulling things apart tomorrow.

Interestingly enough, a highway cop overtook me at some point and I was worried that he'd pull me over and tell me to pull my contraption down before I continued. But, alas, he didn't seem to mind at all. I will take it down then I approach Sydney, however, so that I can drive safely - right now there's 0% visibility to the right.

Steven


120144120145120146

[jonesy63]

Hi Steven - FWIW, a few years ago I was reversing my boat to the boat ramp in the rain. Some rain must have got into my switch pack - and it stopped working altogether. The dealer replaced it under warranty and no issues since. Good luck!
Cheers,
Rob

[mr_squiggle]

That's a great temporary window! At least it's going to get you home in one piece.
Good luck with the fault finding. Please let us know what it turns out to be.

[Smcconnell]

Quick update gents,

All is good back in the hood, so to speak.

Car got towed to Trivett Sydney, they replaced the faulty window/mirror control switch bundle. I appreciate windows on a whole new level now :)


Steven

[mr_squiggle]

Quick update gents,

All is good back in the hood, so to speak.

Car got towed to Trivett Sydney, they replaced the faulty window/mirror control switch bundle. I appreciate windows on a whole new level now :)


Steven

Good to see it's all sorted. Did they pull the old one apart & show you?

[Smcconnell]

No, it was a warranty job anyway, so I didn't care too much - just wanted to pick up the car and go.

Steven