Roof load

[saljosax]

Hi, we're travelling from Sydney through the Simpson Desert to Dalhousie Springs and back. Apparently we're going to need 6 20litre cans of fuel. Our max roof load with the Rhino Rack is 75kilos. Do you think it's OK to exceed that for a few days til we use the fuel? There'll also be a 2nd spare and tent on the roof.

[Stuart02]

Hi, we're travelling from Sydney through the Simpson Desert to Dalhousie Springs and back. Apparently we're going to need 6 20litre cans of fuel. Our max roof load with the Rhino Rack is 75kilos. Do you think it's OK to exceed that for a few days til we use the fuel? There'll also be a 2nd spare and tent on the roof.
It's a lot, isn't it... Is a fuel bladder or rear mounted spare wheel/jerry holder an option for you?

[Russrobe]

Hi, we're travelling from Sydney through the Simpson Desert to Dalhousie Springs and back. Apparently we're going to need 6 20litre cans of fuel. Our max roof load with the Rhino Rack is 75kilos. Do you think it's OK to exceed that for a few days til we use the fuel? There'll also be a 2nd spare and tent on the roof.
I've seen others remove the rear seats and use a drip tray to store them on ratcheted together. Might be a better option.

Take it you don't have a long range tank?

[Briar]

You don't plan on carrying the whole 120 litres on the roof rack do you as well as tent and spare. The roof might physically hold that load although well in excess of design. I'd be really worried about stability.

Carry the jerrys inside and put other light stuff on rack. Only put jerrys up on roof when empty.

[Stiltz]

I have always avoided fuel in the cabin. One spill and that smell/fumes stays for ages and dangerous. My thought is place them on the roof and then keep filling the main tank at every possible chance to lighten the roof load.

[Stuart02]

If the spare weighs 30kg or more, plus a tent of 20 or more, plus the rack, it'd be upward of 180 kg, maybe as much as 200 kg? That's kinda scary if you have to tackle a dune on an angle or dodge an animal etc?

[Russrobe]

I think in this case you have no choice but to carry it in the cabin.

Long range tank would be good if it's in budget.

You're already exceeding the roof limit before the fuel.

[IvanR]

I have had no problems carrying fuel inside (diesel) , but in plastic jerry cans not steel. You need to test them first for leaks by laying them on there sides in the garage overnight, full of course. The trick with the plastic cans is to compress the sides before finally sealing them so the contents are under vaccum. I carry them on there sides with no leaks and no smells. Get pro-quip ones as they have straight sides, and dont leak.

Ivan

[scarry]

Just to clarify,petrol or diesel?

[Mk1_Oz]

Do it right and do it safe.....LR tank under the car. That much extra weight on the roof is asking for trouble especially off-road where momentum will multiply its effect. I know LR tanks cost but this is your family's safety (...in the middle of nowhere!).

[Stiltz]

Yeah good point about which fuel and also if your really need 200L of fuel. We want to do the trip ourselves and I have heard around 120L should be enough for a diesel. I.e. Only 2 tanks on the back or the roof.

[DiscoMick]

I had 3x20litres on the roof of our D1 300Tdi coming from Alice through Dalhousie to Birdsville, but I emptied them as fast as possible, before we got into the dunes.
So that was 89 litres + 60 litres. We didn't have much other weight up there though. We reached Birdsville with one-third of a tank left.
Now our Defender has a long range tank and it's much better being down low.
I recommend you put some diesel drums inside rather than on the roof and empty them as fast as possible.

[rhinosm]

Looking at maps, Birdsville to Dalhousie & Mt Dare is around 500kms +/-.
I went Birdsville to Poeppel Cnr then north along Hay River Track, towing a camper trailer, around 590kms.
I took 3 x 20L jerries, used all 3 but had plenty at next fuel stop, at Jervois.
Do your numbers before deciding to carry 6 jerries.
Keep them off the roof if possible.
Great drive, you should love it.

[LandyAndy]

If you aren't towing it would be reasonably easy to make,or get made a jerry can holder that mounts to the tow hitch,much like a bike carrier does.
Andrew

[ozscott]

That 75 kg (on road only) includes Rhino rack...so what 45-50kg payload?

Cheers

[Briar]

If you aren't towing it would be reasonably easy to make,or get made a jerry can holder that mounts to the tow hitch,much like a bike carrier does.
Andrew

That is a brilliant idea.

[Bytemrk]

As the others have said, don't get carried away with how much fuel you are carrying and definitely keep the weight as low as you can. Crossing soft dunes with that much weight up high is crazy.

The big question is still are we talking diesel of petrol? Petrol you definitely do NOT want to carry in the vehicle, but diesel could be carried safely as described.

If you are talking diesel, the amount (120Ltrs + the standard tank) sounds extreme to me...mine carries 105Ltr in a long range tank plus the standard tank and I can regularly get 1500-1600 km out of that. (not across sand dunes obviously.)

You don't mention where you intend to enter the Simpson or which line you are following - but fuel is available at both Birdsville and Mt Dare and following the French line they are under 600 km apart even allowing a few hundred km of detours and significantly higher fuel use than normal - I doubt you will need 3 jerrys.

While you are planning where to store all this fuel...... how much water are you taking?

[scarry]

We did Mt Dare to Birdsville easy on stock tank and two jerrys,in the D4.

I took three to be sure but didn't need the third.

Loaded but not towing.

Depends which way you go as well.

[LRD414]

If you aren't towing it would be reasonably easy to make,or get made a jerry can holder that mounts to the tow hitch,much like a bike carrier does.
Andrew

There was a thread linking to such a product a year or more ago. Can't remember the brand though.

Scott

[Redback]

Why would you need 120lts of extra fuel just to go from Birdsville to Dalhousie, when we crossed the Simpson, we had a RRS V8 petrol with us, he had 10 10ltr jerries on the roof and he made it all the way to Oodnadatta with no problems, when he left Dalhousie he still had 4 jerries full, we towed our camper had 3 10ltr jerries with fuel to spare.

It's 577ks give or take Birdsville to Mt Dare, at 20l/100k you only need 115lts of fuel in a Disco 3/4, 3 20lt jerries of extra fuel gives you a buffer of 30lts, but with 205lts on board with 85lts in the tank and 6 jerries of 120lts at 20l/100ks gets you 1000ks there abouts by my calculations.

120ks + the weight of the roof rack and anything else on it, is a lot of weight on the roof just sitting stationary, 150kg minimum, makes you very top heavy.

[RobA]

OK having averaged one crossing a year for 17 years a few things to think about

only fill the JC at Birdsville or Oodnadatta so they are empty until the start of the crossing
we put our JC on the roof in heavy duty black plastic food tubs no cheapie they will not last and use decent ratchet straps to tie them down
use the fuel on the roof first and drop a JC in every day
as a planning figure for consumption add 20% if you are an experienced sand driver and >25% if you have never driven the Simpson before
we can do Oodnadatta to Birdsville on around 130l in a Prado and I reckon the D4 would actually use less. But we do have a reasonable amount of experience driving those 1100 dunes and take a much slower approach with relatively lower tyre pressures than most of the folk who spend more time digging up the track and doing recoveries
we have never gone past 19l per 100km and that was towing
if you are going straight across the French Line that is 660km to Dalhousie from Birdsville. But this is certainly the roughest way to go in either direction
keep it light. only take what you really need but remember you are going to need at least 40l of water for the crossing so weight will always be your enemy
diesel fuel inside is fine. Agree with the comments regarding plastic, good quality, JC but put them in a tub JIC
removing the seats behind the driver gives you a huge amount of room
we have a custom made sliding tray in the rear and I have attached a pic. This, for us at least, is the perfect solution
do a sand driving course if you have not had any practice sand driving. It won't make you an expert only time and experience does that but at least you will begin to get a feel for how to drive the car

120264120265120266

[SimmAus]

Lots of sound advice here.
My experience: Birdsville to Mt Dare - 92L diesel is needed (16L per 100kms)..we did a bit of a longer trek not the straight French line.
Take 3 jerries..as others have said just in case.
Weight on roof should be limited.
Empty jerries as you go to lessen load on roof or risk of smelly car if they leak
Most of all...enjoy the trip.

[Declan]

RobA
Your custom made sliding tray is excellent, could you tell us where you had it made ? and what weight it can hold, it looks like a fair bit off weight by your picture, and if you don't mind what $ did it cost so I have an idea up here in QLD.

[RobA]

RobA
Your custom made sliding tray is excellent, could you tell us where you had it made ? and what weight it can hold, it looks like a fair bit off weight by your picture, and if you don't mind what $ did it cost so I have an idea up here in QLD.

Declan hello. The tray was designed by me and made by Paul at Trek Tech (http://www.trektech.com.au). it uses the tie-down bolts, Paul supplies longer SS versions to hold it in. This makes it a very simple process to remove if you really want to. The sliders are 285kgs each side so not cheap. We used it hard on our 4 month trip through the Kimberley last year and I estimate it had around 200kg on it. But fully extended it does not flex or move at all we made it to be bullet proof and it is for sure. We set it up as a flat tray and use nutserts with tie downs to configure it anyway you like. Makes for an incredibly robust and flexible setup. I am wrapped after 20 years of faffing around with drawers which are heavy, immovable so you always carry the weight even if it is down to the shops and removes the flexibility of the cargo area.

Removal of the third row of seats opens up a huge area where we store all our recovery and tyre repair gear. If you go down to the "follow me" section on the forum and find my blog on our Kimberley trip you will get an idea of things with some more information as well

As well it is setup so you are easily able to access the spare wheel winder with no problems and as you can now appreciate the slide out design also means you don't have to empty the back of the car to get to the winder.

Simples?[smilebigeye]

I reckon it will cost around $1600 delivered but you need to call Paul and have a chat. Just tell him you want the same thing he built for Rob's D4

Rob

[~Rich~]

My mate made custom runners for his total roll out kitchen!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/652.jpg

Works great too.
Gas stove all hooked up ready for gas to be turned on.

[weeds]

The OP hasn't mentioned Mt Dare therefore may be doing a double crossing without refueling at Mt Dare?? Or

He might not be going straight across.

I had close to 200kg on my roof rack when I crossed....didn't realize until after the trip how heavy the roof rack was that the previous owner built.

[Johnno_p]

Rhino state to allow a factor of 1.5 when going off road. So a 75kg rating drops to a 50kg rating less the weight of the actual racks themselves.
You'll possibly already be over this with a rooftop tent and spare wheel and tyre.

[ozscott]

Yep but honestly forget Rhino because the handbook is where it's at. Cheers

[weeds]

Yep but honestly forget Rhino because the handbook is where it's at. Cheers

Surely the manufacturer stating the design limitation of there product is important..I take it that rhino recommend a lower weight for their rack when used off road.

[ozscott]

In my experience with Rhino (excellent products) they give weights higher than LR...hence why I make the point. LR recommends a particular lower weight offroad. I would follow whichever is the lower but usually this is LR not Rhino. Just as an example Rhinos Web site allows you to put in your vehicle type and it recommends a system. For the D2 their 3 bar system allows you to carry 100kg (from memory) but the LR handbook stated max roof load on road is 50kg and 30kg offroad...the only place you will see Rhino giving credence to the manufacturer is in the little fitting sheet that comes with the system....where they say it's 100kg or the vehicle manufacturers weight limit whichever is the lesser. A lot of people don't realise this. When I rang Rhino they said their limits were based on their system on the vehicles in their database. Some people think the Rhino max weight must then be OK but it's clearly not.
Cheers

[weeds]

Opps, ignore me. I read it the other way and have never owned rhino.

[Redback]

In my experience with Rhino (excellent products) they give weights higher than LR...hence why I make the point. LR recommends a particular lower weight offroad. I would follow whichever is the lower but usually this is LR not Rhino. Just as an example Rhinos Web site allows you to put in your vehicle type and it recommends a system. For the D2 their 3 bar system allows you to carry 100kg (from memory) but the LR handbook stated max roof load on road is 50kg and 30kg offroad...the only place you will see Rhino giving credence to the manufacturer is in the little fitting sheet that comes with the system....where they say it's 100kg or the vehicle manufacturers weight limit whichever is the lesser. A lot of people don't realise this. When I rang Rhino they said their limits were based on their system on the vehicles in their database. Some people think the Rhino max weight must then be OK but it's clearly not.
Cheers
Finally, and people think the same thing about towbars, doesn't matter if the aftermarket states 3500kg, you can still only tow what the manufacturers max weight is.

One thing I notice for the D4, I couldn't find an offroad weight max for the roof, only the on road weight(75kg)that includes roof rails, but working off the D2 specs you mentioned, I would imagine that the offroad max for the D4 would be 55kg, which doesn't allow you to put 3 jerries on the roof even if you don't count the roof racks or any other crap you put up their.

For us, the only thing we have up there is an awning, a shovel, pole carrier and a chainsaw, sometimes a little bit of firewood that want fit on the camper and that is only up there for very short periods, like a couple of Ks from camp.

[DiscoMick]

The Rhino rating is only for the strength of the rack itself and doesn't tell anything about what weight the vehicle manufacturer says the roof can hold.
Many people seem to overload their roof racks. I'm the opposite - I try to minimize the weight up there.
Remember that on the dunes you will be bouncing around and it's easy to roll a vehicle, particularly if there is a lot of weight up there.
When we did The Simpson one of our group had a rack break and slam down on top of the roof of his Triton, with unhappy results.
I recommend you try to travel as light as possible. When packing, spread everything on the ground and divide it into two groups: Essentials and Maybes. Pack the Essentials. Leave the Maybes at home.
Water, fuel, sleeping gear, food, clothes and medical are Essentials. Everything else is a Maybe.
One of our group used to take an hour to set up camp. We only took 10 minutes. Then we cooked dinner and sat there watching them finish setting up.

[kevo78]

G'day all, newbee here researching prior to purchase, can a disco 4 handle a roof top tent? and what is the load rating?

[Russrobe]

Where are you all carrying gas bottles? The only legal place i thought was on the roof.

Kevo as mentioned 75kgs max weight. There is one called MyCube that weighs less than 36kg and would be suitable.

[cjc_td5]

Where are you all carrying gas bottles? The only legal place i thought was on the roof.

Kevo as mentioned 75kgs max weight. There is one called MyCube that weighs less than 36kg and would be suitable.

I seem to recall from somewhere that anything less than 20kg is allowed to be carried within the vehicle??

[Russrobe]

I seem to recall from somewhere that anything less than 20kg is allowed to be carried within the vehicle??
Transporting LPG cylinders (http://www.dmp.wa.gov.au/Transporting-LP-gas-for-3213.aspx)

Basically, no. Unless you plan on driving around with your windows down for cross ventilation.

[LandyAndy]

Your camping cylinders are legal inside the vehicle.It may be something like 2 9kg bottles.
Neverless,they are a bomb waiting to happen.
I hate carting my bottles up to the city to be filled.Its a scandalous price down here to fill or swap.The 9kg bottle fits tight inside a milk crate,easy to strap down that way.
Andrew

[Russrobe]

Your camping cylinders are legal inside the vehicle.It may be something like 2 9kg bottles.
Neverless,they are a bomb waiting to happen.
I hate carting my bottles up to the city to be filled.Its a scandalous price down here to fill or swap.The 9kg bottle fits tight inside a milk crate,easy to strap down that way.
Andrew
Roof it is Andy. Would rather risk an extra 5kg on the roof (4.5kg bottle) than risk blowing up the car... Driving up to Perth is one thing but driving for 6 weeks, 5000+kms is another...

[ozscott]

Stick a black screen in cap in as required by law and cam tie to a cargo cage in the rear and I have no issue with safety.

Cheers

[weeds]

The issue is pressure relief when inside the car....

Given most re-fill places don't fill using the correct procedure......nearly every time they let go of the full line and nip the bleed screw up while liquid is still coming out....as temperature changes I.e. Increases the cylinder let's out vapor, liquid in done cases.

I reckon most explosions happen when the cylinder has been left in the car after refill and there has been a temperature change.....gas is at a floor level, person drives off and at some stage it ignites, oh and cylinder is secure upright I.e. Rolling around

Get a cylinders filled than straight into a car with either air-con on or windows will probably be cooler than when filled. Oh and secured upright.

Remember gas is heavier than air so even with with windows down gas can still linger in the foot wells.