Steering Relay oil

[nickm]

I am trying to get some oil into the steering relay of my 1963 88" , Matilda. I have removed the front and rear bolts on the top and the one nearest the radiator underneath. Nothing came out and so far I think I have managed to get 5 ml into it in 24 hrs. Now I know it is supposed to be slow going but am I missing something? Have I removed the wrong lower bolt and it is full?

Any ideas/help appreciated, and I thank you in advance.​

[chazza]

I am trying to get some oil into the steering relay of my 1963 88" , Matilda. I have removed the front and rear bolts on the top and the one nearest the radiator underneath. Nothing came out and so far I think I have managed to get 5 ml into it in 24 hrs. Now I know it is supposed to be slow going but am I missing something? Have I removed the wrong lower bolt and it is full?

Any ideas/help appreciated, and I thank you in advance.​

You shouldn't have to remove any bolts from the bottom. I filled mine with an oil can through one of the bolts on the top,

Cheers Charlie

[mick88]

I find a syringe comes in handy for this job.
Also warming the oil a touch by sitting your container in a pot of warm water can make it flow better.

Cheers, Mick.

[Cannon]

Front top bolt, rear top bolt syringe it in as fast as I like.

Then wait for it to run out the bottom [tonguewink]

I'll fix that seal soon I promise.

BTW we have a Matilda too :)

[nickm]

I left the bottom bolt out and so far nothing has run out, can't remove other bottom bolts without removing arm. Is the drain the one nearest radiator as I have read elsewhere? I am using a syringe and fine tubing but does not go in, I will try heating the oil as well.


Thanks

[gromit]

I left the bottom bolt out and so far nothing has run out, can't remove other bottom bolts without removing arm. Is the drain the one nearest radiator as I have read elsewhere? I am using a syringe and fine tubing but does not go in, I will try heating the oil as well.


Thanks

The oil has to go in through the gap between the two halves of the split Tufnol bush, removing a second top bolt sometimes helps to let air out as the oil goes in.
You may find that someone in the past has pumped it full of grease so the oil won't flow past. It could also be a buildup of crud in the joint between the two halves of the bush.

If you remove the arm (undo & remove bolt & tap a screwdriver into the split to open the arm slightly to remove) it's easy to remove the endcap but you'll need a new gasket and might as well put a seal in at the same time.

I removed the bottom cap on my Series I because the oil fell out and just replaced the gasket & seal (must get round to replacing the top seal one day.......)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/248.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/cradley/media/Series%201%20with%20Welder/DSCN2690_zps3f9aebe3.jpg.html)


Colin

[67hardtop]

Try this.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/244.jpg
The bottom bolts arent a drain its usually the seal that lets the oil out.

Cheers Rod

[gromit]

The bottom bolts arent a drain its usually the seal that lets the oil out.

Cheers Rod

With all the ones I've seen one of the lower bolts is a drain but I can never remember which one. There is a section machined out of the bore so that one of the lower bolts breaks into it to allow draining.

Found a picture but it doesn't help determine which bolt it is......An indentation is in the casting rather than machined.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/03/243.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/cradley/media/Spare%20parts/DSCN2428_zpszkgskxgr.jpg.html)


Colin

[67hardtop]

Well if it is then push a thin wire up all the holes and u can find out which one it is coz it will go in further.

Cheers Rod

[nickm]

Thanks people, given me something to go on with.
I'm sure it wouldn't be half as fun if it was easy............

[nickm]

Quick update, after spraying a can of CRC into the top of the relay I finally got something to drain out of the bottom and for it to accept some oil!
The bottom bolt hole closest to the drivers side tire seems to be the drain. Now to see if it holds oil.....

[mox]

When I got around to looking at tightening arms on splines on relay box and lubrication of it in 1961 LWB acquired from a relative's estate last year, noticed a grease nipple that screwed in the side of top of box. ie under the top arm . With quarter inch UNF thread, common for grease nipples. Installed a new right angled one so grease gun can be applied when radiator grille removed. Pumped in Nulon red grease until some came out of both top and bottom seals. ( Similar to Wynn's containing PTFE which seems to throw out of bearings, unijoints etc less than most other greases.)

Looking at exploded parts illustration of relay box in Dec '63 workshop manual that came with vehicle. looks to me that "plug for oil hole " is where grease nipple is in mine. Anyway, seems to me that with what is inside this relay box and fairly heavy load but with not much movement, grease should be better than oil. Including for having one less place that Land Rover can apply its oil territory marker on the ground from.

To put oil into this hole with quarter inch UNF thread inside it would require syringe and needle. I wonder if original designer of housing had grease nipple in mind but message did not get through to those writing manuals etc. Another example of where it appears designers intended quarter inch UNF grease nipple be used is the pivot pins of Series clutch and brake pedals, which are hollow and have plugs on one end. On mine when I acquired it, this pin for brake pedal was very solidly seized and pedal became immovable . Heavy pin and bushes unlikely to have ever been greased or oiled and jammed with dirt that had set solidly. After getting it out (removing housing and all and lots of coaxing with heavy "knocktrometer" etc) and cleaning it. I drilled small holes for small locating pin for these on other side of housing so a right angled grease nipple could be installed on the right side of the brake pedal bracket. No room for one on the left side with clutch pedal housing so close. Straightforward replacing plug with right angled grease nipple on clutch pedal pivot pin though.

Land Rover workshop manual recommends same oil in steering relay box as some other applications on vehicle. Looks like one example of instructions written by people whose knowledge of the issues was lacking partly from probably never having done the job themselves. Anyway, seems to me that for those who have been wondering how to get oil in , it may be a sudden major change in thinking to consider grease instead.

[1950landy]

Problem with grease is once it is wiped off there is no lubrication unless you use a self leveling grease the tupe that is used in gear boxes of drills & grinders, it is a mixture of oil & grease. With oil it will run back between the surfaces.

[JDNSW]

The relay has fibre bushes that rely for lubrication on oil soaking through them. Grease will not do this, so by filling it with grease you are effectively running it unlubricated, and will eventually wear out the bushes and possibly the shaft. The people who wrote the instructions knew what they were doing. Same issue as with the steering swivels - fill them with grease and you stop the leaks - and stop lubrication to the top bush.

Semi-liquid grease such as the Landrover "one-shot" specified for later Defender swivels will work, and leak is not as bad as oil. But the seal is easy to replace, so leaking is not really necessary.

[mox]

Re comment by JDNSW, I probably should pull by relay box apart and have a look whether grease under some pressure initially seems to have worked its way into where it is needed or not. Re Defender swivel housings, hadn't thought much about the top bush but after having long ago seen one in a local garage having chewed up CV joints replaced, have occasionally added oil to mine. Also, after only 35,000 km, original left rear axle and hub spline stripped. Grease filled hubs had not kept up lubricant supply but other three still had enough grease to stop them failing too. I bought a set of hub oil seals but still have not installed them. Just every now and then remove plastic /rubber axle caps, half fill them with very thick industrial gear oil and slap them back on. With adequate oil on these splines at all times, I reckon they should be no more inclined to strip themselves than the splines on the other ends of axles in the diff pinions.