Tyre rotation pattern? Including the spare.

[Toxic_Avenger]

Is there any preferred pattern for tyre rotation where there is a spare (5th wheel) to be slotted into the roation?

Normally I've done a Cross shape pattern (FL to RR, FR to RL, RL to FR, RR to FL).
Where should the spare go? From the back of the vehicle to ???
Off which Hub should should a wheel go back on the rear of the vehicle?



If it matters I'm rotating BFG M/T TA K02 which I believe are not directional. They have approx 5000km on them now, and 6 or so months.

[loneranger]

I use this pattern

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/04/373.jpg

[Toxic_Avenger]

Thinking out loud, I'm thinking that the steer tyres will wear faster than the drive tyres, given that friction is the mechanism thru which a tyre can make the vehicle steer.

I guess the pattern itself is inconsequential (as long as it moves tyres from lower wear to higher wear wheel locations), with the consistency of said pattern and frequency of changes as the biggest concern?

[loneranger]

I figure as long as I rotate around every 8 - 10,000km I'll be fine.

[DiscoMick]

Isn't it important to rotate to opposite side as well as front to back?
I have seen it argued that roads normally slope from the centre out to the edge, meaning the vehicle is on a slight slope and the passenger side tyres are carrying more weight than the driver's side.
It was claimed that meant more wear on the outside tread than the inside tread, so to keep the wear even they had to be swapped to the opposite side as well as front to rear.
Mind you, I've been lazy and haven't done that yet to the Defender.

[Slunnie]

I work on the principle that the rear of the D2 is heavier than the front, based on weight station weights, and the drivers side is heavier than the passengers side based on how many lean to the DS. From there I replace the least worn DSR and most worn PSF.

[Jojo]

The way you are rotating the tyres is probably less important than consistency. I always rotate in a counterclockwise manner, including the spare wheel.

[onebob]

I have 2 spares and so have 6 wheels shod with BFG All Terrain A/T to rotate. Spares to the front - fronts to diagonal rear - rears become spares - repeat every 10,000km. I did the fifth rotation in December 2016. They're plenty chipped and cut up but still have 8mm tread depth in the centre[emoji1360]

[Toxic_Avenger]

Lucky you've got the extra tyres. It's a problem I'd klove to have but nowhere for me to store the extra tyre+rim.

I rotated the tyres yesterday.
I have 5 tyres in the rotation.

Rear tyres go to same side front position (ie LHS Rear to LHS Front, RHS Rear to RHS Front)
LHS Front goes to spare positon
Spare is fitted to RHS Rear
RHS Front gets shifted to the rear, diagonally (ie LHS rear position).


This was the recommendation by loneranger, (which also appears to be via the cooper tyre rotation guidelines for AWD and RWD vehicles with a 5 tyre rotation).
https://www.coopertires.com.au/media/1401/rotating-your-tyres-extract.pdf

I'm not sure if it's a concern that the Rear to front movement means that for 2 rotations the tyre is on the same side of the vehicle? I know for instance, the forklift at work wears out the RHS tyres way faster than the LHS tyres. Apparently people prefer turning one way, given the choice. I guess round abouts might be a similar concern on the bitumen, and more agressive (read tyre wearing) turns may be taken on a LH turn rather than a RH turn.

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Post #2 is generally the most widely accepted rotation pattern. This is coming from 25 years associated with the tyres, steering and suspension industry.

[onebob]

Post #2 is generally the most widely accepted rotation pattern. This is coming from 25 years associated with the tyres, steering and suspension industry.

hmmmm! that would work with 6 wheels too........

[Rick Fischer]

Gave up rotating tyres years and years ago, found it to be a false economy......... don't use front drive cars either. [smilebigeye] With those the rears age out. Had a real Cooper S many years ago and and Renault 16TS, and "de-restricted" signs [bigsmile1](age is showing) The rear tyres on those never got to age out. Fronts had relatively short life. Rears moved forward, new on the rear.

If one rotates tyres they all come close to wearing out at the same time. At around $400 approx for good LTs that is $1600+ in one hit. To my mind 1/2 of that is a better outcome, across three cars. :0) Having said that I run 6 wheels for the Deffie. Replaced four last year, so will shortly turf the "aged" spares and add two new steer tyres. and move everything rearwards.

Something important to note with modern radials and LTs, these are especially prone to taking on a "set" and one should not change sides, direction of rotation. The "set" changed can affect wear rate, and "squirm" and "cornering force", leading to steering appearing off centre, and vibration, neither of which can be (really) corrected with an alignment or a balance. Both will drift as the tyre/s take up a new "set" over time. (This has nothing to do with asymmetric tread tyres which shouldn't be swapped sides for other reasons)

Hope this differing view on tyre rotation is of some assistance.

Cheers

Rick F

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Radials do take on a "set" but you only really feel it on the front. You can move them to the rear and reverse the direction and then they wear in to their new rotation direction. That's the thing with radials, the ply layers always move.

You do increase the life of the tyres in general by rotating them, is it really a false economy? Instead of buying two at a time, you are buying 4, so it's a greater expense, but over the life of the car, if you keep it more than 2 or 3 sets of tyres, you actually spend less as you are buying maybe 8 tyres over ~150,000kms instead of 10 or 12 over ~220-240,000kms instead of 16.

It's not just rotations you need to keep up, it's wheel alignments as well, having the alignment at least checked at every rotation extends tyre life too.

[Tombie]

About to fit the 4th set of tyres to the D4..

To be fair, factory set came off at 5k and all worn to within 0.25mm of each other (except spare of course)

2nd set came off and are now on the camper - ALL (except spare) had 5mm tread regardless of position.

3rd set was 4 new and the spare from 2nd set put onto the road are now about to come off at 5mm of tread - all 4 tyres are within 0.5mm; excluding spare which is now on Camper.

Never once has this vehicle had a rotation, and only 3 wheel alignments in 105,000km.



I personally will never rotate a wheel into a situation where it is rotating opposite to its original position. Have seen several delaminate shortly thereafter (older model BFG especially seemed more prone) after a wheel rotation.

[Old Farang]

Hmm, just about as many opinions about this as there is about which oil is the best! There are many variables, but for me the first and most important step in extending tyre life is to regularly check and maintain the correct pressure. The 4 psi rule works for me, and I no longer bother to rotate the tyres. I find it difficult to establish just which is more important, as everybody's driving situation is different, so which one of several options works the best?

[rick130]

I personally will never rotate a wheel into a situation where it is rotating opposite to its original position. Have seen several delaminate shortly thereafter (older model BFG especially seemed more prone) after a wheel rotation.




Ditto.

I was warned years so not to reverse the direction of radials.
Supposedly the carcass and belts take a 'set' from the stresses, and what Mike described can happen due to the reversal of the stresses if you reverse the direction.

I've asked a few tyre fitters over the years and the older ones remember that being the advise in the early days as radials became the standard over bias belted tyres.


I had to rotate the Deefer tyres front to rear otherwise I would've been throwing the fronts away at half the miles of the rears.

Muddies seem to chop out quickly on a steer axle.

[Tombie]

Hmm, just about as many opinions about this as there is about which oil is the best! There are many variables, but for me the first and most important step in extending tyre life is to regularly check and maintain the correct pressure. The 4 psi rule works for me, and I no longer bother to rotate the tyres. I find it difficult to establish just which is more important, as everybody's driving situation is different, so which one of several options works the best?

In Hua Hin I would say brakes are more important than anything else on the vehicle!!

[Old Farang]

In Hua Hin I would say brakes are more important than anything else on the vehicle!!
The ARB bulbar helps a lot also! Sorry I missed you, not travelling too well lately. :twobeers:

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Maybe in the early days of radials, but certainly not the case now. When I first started in the late 80's I was told the same thing, but as technologies developed, the construction of a radial tyre developed with them so that now it doesn't matter if you change the direction of a radial tyres rotation. I wouldn't do it on the front though as you will probably get a pull to one side, but once they have been on the rear for a while it doesn't matter.

[Toxic_Avenger]

The 4 psi rule works for me, and I no longer bother to rotate the tyres.

Tell me more... either here or new thread.
I recall reading something about hot/cold pressures and how this helps ideal tyre pressure, but I promptly forgot.

[Tombie]

The ARB bulbar helps a lot also! Sorry I missed you, not travelling too well lately. :twobeers:

You look after yourself...

We're heading back later in the year, will drop you a line when we know details.

[Old Farang]

Tell me more... either here or new thread.
I recall reading something about hot/cold pressures and how this helps ideal tyre pressure, but I promptly forgot.
I am sure there is a thread on here somewhere, I just cant find it. It works for me BUT I am mostly on sealed roads, AND it probably depends a bit on just what tyres you are running, amongst other things. I check them regularly before a long run and the current set of tyres are wearing evenly. I regularly get those that know more than me trying to tell me my tyres are half flat! They do look low when cold, but always come up 4 psi anywhere along the way when I check them.
The trick seems to be to establish just what the starting pressure should be.

https://www.coopertires.com.au/media/1400/cooper-drivers-guide-tyre-pressures.pdf

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

Tell me more... either here or new thread.
I recall reading something about hot/cold pressures and how this helps ideal tyre pressure, but I promptly forgot.

The 4psi rule is the tyre pressures should increase by 4psi from cold to hot. A "hot" tyre is a tyre that has been driven for an hour at a speed not less than 100km/h.

You measure your cold pressure before you leave, after an hour you measure your pressure, if it has risen by 4psi then your starting cold pressure was correct. If it has risen by more than 4psi, then your starting cold pressure was too low, less than 4psi then it was too high. Do not adjust the pressure of a hot tyre, it will never be accurate, always do it cold. Play with pressures until you have the magic number of 4psi change in pressure.

[Toxic_Avenger]

So vehicle weight/load being carried has a fair bit to do with it i guess?
Does the 4psi rule indicate that the tyre has the correct contact patch?

[numpty]

I, like a couple of others here don't bother with tyre rotation anymore and have never been a fan of diagonal changes for the reasons given.

The fact that I run 235/85's on the 130 and the spares are 750's has nothing to do with it [bigsmile1]

[rick130]

So vehicle weight/load being carried has a fair bit to do with it i guess?
Does the 4psi rule indicate that the tyre has the correct contact patch?
It's a reasonable rule of thumb, Mitch.

Moisture content of the air will throw things out, think of your on board air with no water seperator compared to a properly blown down industrial air compressor with a decent water seperator, or a dehydrator.
I think mine was throwing more water than air out the other day when it was raining.