Understanding Winches on a D4

[Strop]

Hi all,

I am not in the market for a winch. I have no idea how to use a winch. I don't know if I will ever need a winch, but after reading some stuff I have a question or two.

I see winches as having 3 components. The cradle they are mounted on/in, the winch device itself and the electrics how they are wired in.

Ok, I want to deal with how they are mounted.

With the D4 I can see 3 mounting styles. Bullbar, hidden / discrete and finally the current Land Rover one that fits at the front. I am accepting that all are legal so let's assume that for a start.

Bullbars, personally dislike them based solely on looks. I can see their advantages though being able to mount heaps of gear and offering a bit of protection to the front. Some issues with air flow for cooling. Issues with sensors not working. Heavy. Some modifications to body so once it's on its on.

Hidden / discrete, my favorite as it does what the name says. You can't see it until you want to use it and then it's there. Doesn't detract from the cars looks. Major issue as I like the look. Now not sure about fitting to later model D4 but overseas websites say they are available. Looks like major work to install. They must restrict airflow. Minor cutting to body to fit. They have to be lighter than a bulbar so weight saving. There are some threads on these. Expensive. All the sensors & cameras work

Finally there is the winch mount that sticks out the front. I have seen one of these on a video on YouTube (Australian). I have not seen much discussion on them really and not found any copies you can buy though I am sure they have to be out there. Very expensive I have also read. Don't look as good as the hidden ones but better than a bulbar (personal preference). Wouldn't restrict airflow. Don't know about sensors and cameras. Keeps most if cars looks. Ease of access.

ok so reading about winches, in general. I have seen that the biggest issue with them is maintenance. Ensuring that they are going when you need them. Also read that biggest threat to them is mud. Now I can't see myself going through mud but dusty roads plus water crossing equals mud. So if you have to service these bits of kit it would appear to this novice that the stick out the front mount one is a no brainier. You can access it without having to take other things off. Have I got this right?

I can not see any advantage of one mounting system over the other for actual straight winching? Are there differences here?

I am not sure if you can add additional recovery points on a bull bar giving it an advantage over the other two systems when you use a pulley to bring the cable back for a double pull. I hope I got the terminology right there. So is there any advantages with actual winching capabilities with the 3 mounting system?

That's enough for now so I would appreciate any assistance in understanding the pros and cons of these and any other mounting system for a winch as it pertains to the D3/4.

All the best

Laurie

[Crofty]

In a similar boat Laurie, looking forward to some feedback on this!

[Dagilmo]

I have a winch. Most useless bit of kit on a Discovery[smilebigeye]......Only thing I've used it for is pulling the tinny up the dune at Gnaraloo station.

Mine is in a bar, as I like the other benefits of the bar. I had it on a Navara and when I changed it over, pulled it down and refurbished it. It had done a very muddy trip through the Kimberly for 5 weeks. When I pulled it apart, the gear box had a fair bit of mud inside, that had started to corrode one of the gears. So if you are doing mud and water you'll need to do maintenance. Pulling it out and putting back into the bar is not a great job, but doable on your own at home.

[Tins]

Hi all,

I am not in the market for a winch. I have no idea how to use a winch. I don't know if I will ever need a winch, but after reading some stuff I have a question or two.

I see winches as having 3 components. The cradle they are mounted on/in, the winch device itself and the electrics how they are wired in.

Ok, I want to deal with how they are mounted.

With the D4 I can see 3 mounting styles. Bullbar, hidden / discrete and finally the current Land Rover one that fits at the front. I am accepting that all are legal so let's assume that for a start.

Bullbars, personally dislike them based solely on looks. I can see their advantages though being able to mount heaps of gear and offering a bit of protection to the front. Some issues with air flow for cooling. Issues with sensors not working. Heavy. Some modifications to body so once it's on its on.

Hidden / discrete, my favorite as it does what the name says. You can't see it until you want to use it and then it's there. Doesn't detract from the cars looks. Major issue as I like the look. Now not sure about fitting to later model D4 but overseas websites say they are available. Looks like major work to install. They must restrict airflow. Minor cutting to body to fit. They have to be lighter than a bulbar so weight saving. There are some threads on these. Expensive. All the sensors & cameras work

Finally there is the winch mount that sticks out the front. I have seen one of these on a video on YouTube (Australian). I have not seen much discussion on them really and not found any copies you can buy though I am sure they have to be out there. Very expensive I have also read. Don't look as good as the hidden ones but better than a bulbar (personal preference). Wouldn't restrict airflow. Don't know about sensors and cameras. Keeps most if cars looks. Ease of access.

ok so reading about winches, in general. I have seen that the biggest issue with them is maintenance. Ensuring that they are going when you need them. Also read that biggest threat to them is mud. Now I can't see myself going through mud but dusty roads plus water crossing equals mud. So if you have to service these bits of kit it would appear to this novice that the stick out the front mount one is a no brainier. You can access it without having to take other things off. Have I got this right?

I can not see any advantage of one mounting system over the other for actual straight winching? Are there differences here?

I am not sure if you can add additional recovery points on a bull bar giving it an advantage over the other two systems when you use a pulley to bring the cable back for a double pull. I hope I got the terminology right there. So is there any advantages with actual winching capabilities with the 3 mounting system?

That's enough for now so I would appreciate any assistance in understanding the pros and cons of these and any other mounting system for a winch as it pertains to the D3/4.

All the best

Laurie

very interesting questions, Laurie.

I have to ask, if you, as you say , are not in the market for a winch, what is the purpose of your question? But let's put that to one side..

You are correct, if you have no idea how to use a winch, then you should not be using one. No amount of forum advice can teach you, so how it's mounted is irrelevant.

I think the best thing you could do is come out on one of the many days/weekends this forum offers and learn first hand. You could save some money, and learn first hand.


BTW, a winch is a winch. The car it is fitted to matters not.

[Chops]

Laurie, we have a winch on ours in an OP bar, yet to be used in anger. Not sure how easy it will be to service at all, but removing the "underneath protection plates" should make it accessible.

The unit you mention which sticks out in front is probably a Warn Winch, and from memory look like they'd be easy to work on. I wanted this option, but the other half insisted on a bull bar,, and rightfully so as we do a few clicks in the country.

The Descrete one I know nothing of.

[Strop]

very interesting questions, Laurie.

I have to ask, if you, as you say , are not in the market for a winch, what is the purpose of your question?

We all have our lists of yes/no/perhaps things. Lists can change. Most of my travel will be solo so I suppose it depends on how adventurous I get in the future if a winch moves from no to yes on that list.

Knowledge and understanding is never wasted. You never know what may come up tomorrow.

All the best

Laurie

[Strop]

Not sure how easy it will be to service at all, but removing the "underneath protection plates"

Are you talking about on the car or the bar itself?


All the best

Laurie

[Chops]

Sorry, on the OL bar I have, and I think they're pretty much all the same, it has cover plates under it. I'm not sure how far mine go under, either sideways or deep wise, and I'm not sure if mine has a cradle attachment in it either, or if it's mounted straight to the bar itself, I'll see if I can get under and get a pic for you later.

So I would imagine that if they were removed, you'd have some access to the winch when in place.

[Redback]

We have a winch mounted on an Opposite Lock Bar also, winches are very simple things to use, if you have basic recovery skills, then a winch will be an easy thing for you to add to those basic skills just by observing others and a bit of hands on training, it's a piece of gear that just requires a bit common sense.

In my opinion a winch is very important if you do anything that involves anything steep or muddy or both, especially if you're towing as well, I've lost count on how many times I've used our winch, not only to recover us, but to recover others too.

[Tins]

We all have our lists of yes/no/perhaps things. Lists can change. Most of my travel will be solo so I suppose it depends on how adventurous I get in the future if a winch moves from no to yes on that list.

Knowledge and understanding is never wasted. You never know what may come up tomorrow.

All the best

Laurie

Fair enough. I repeat, keep an eye on the "Upcoming Events" thread on this forum, and come out to something that is interesting and convenient. Nobody knows everything, and there is always something to learn.

Upon re-reading my reply, I find I sounded a little condescending. That was not my intent, so, sorry.

[Bradmc]

I have a ARB bar for the reason i have other recovery gear and equipment i.e. Iid tool, Sat Phone etc. Its insurance for when things may turn to crap. Plus the bar is good to hang things off, like lights n antenna etc.

I have a Warn Zeon Platinum. I chose the Warn cause i didnt know much about winches, so chose a brand i thought to be reputable. Yes, they are pricey, but hey, the D4 is no budget buy either.

Again, the winch to me is an insurance policy, plus gives me piece of mind when travelling with the family on our own. I have used the Winch in anger due to getting stuck in a big mud hole; my fault for not checking depth and ground conditions. My excuse, it was raining and it was 9pm; i will never make that mistake again (taking the time to check conditions).

The Warn Zeon is also cool due to being able to engage/disengage the clutch and operate the winch by a remote you can charge through cars 12v supply. The winch i have also has light inputs that can also be operated by the remote which is a nice feature.

[Strop]

It was told about a system where you put a 2" receiver on the front of the car and the carry your winch in the back on a suitable portable cradle. That way you can use it on the front or rear.

I can't find any copies of the Land Rover factory winch mount either here or overseas. Discreet mounts yes but those front ones no.

[Redback]

It was told about a system where you put a 2" receiver on the front of the car and the carry your winch in the back on a suitable portable cradle. That way you can use it on the front or rear.

I can't find any copies of the Land Rover factory winch mount either here or overseas. Discreet mounts yes but those front ones no.

There is a bit yes or no about the legality of the LR front mount winch, comes under "outside the perameters of the vehicle" something to do with pedestrian safety I think, so maybe stick with the Discreet winch until you know for sure it's legal, I have seen the winches that can be moved front to back that you talk about, but only in the UK.

[cjc_td5]

It was told about a system where you put a 2" receiver on the front of the car and the carry your winch in the back on a suitable portable cradle. That way you can use it on the front or rear.

I can't find any copies of the Land Rover factory winch mount either here or overseas. Discreet mounts yes but those front ones no.

A "portable" winch does appeal and it has the additional advantage that the winch does not permanently live out in the weather. They are heavy to move around and store though, and it would want to be securely stored as I wouldn't want it floating around in the cabin in a crash.

[Chops]

I've actually seen a couple of these in action. Really good idea, but the two units I've seen were Warn High Mount winches,,,, VERY heavy and rather awkward to maneuver. I was always going to make one out of one of the straight units, so much lighter. Like this you can winch from anywhere you want, front, back or sides. It also helps when the winding is taking place as it keeps the wind more even and doesn't bunch up in the middle or on a side of the spool.

[Russrobe]

The Runva 11xp Premium on ours is still working fine, I specifically chose this one for 3 reasons. Reviews by others including those from this forum, best warranty in the market and their confidence in the winch being waterproof and lastly they are well priced.

I've only fully submerged the winch and control box 3 times though and it's only about 8 months old.

Would have also considered Warn if it was in budget.

[Strop]

You still have to figure out how to do a receiver on the front which will require cutting just like the discreet winch. You will also need power front and rear - big cables.

The problem is how do you carry it around. Also too late to put it on when you are stuck in the mud. I know they might not be the best but some of those 4WD Superstore winches might be the go.

All the best

Laurie

[trout1105]

If you are thinking of fitting a winch then why not fit a bull bar that is winch ready?
A bull bar mounted winch is probably the best option and you only have to have one animal strike and the bar will instantly more than pay for itself.
I would think that a bull bar would be most useful modification that you can add to a 4WD, Not only do they do a fantastic job of protecting the truck AND its passengers they make a great platform to mount your winch, spotties, light bar, ariels and whatever else you want.
You can always keep the original bumper to fit back on the truck when you sell it anyway.

[Chops]

You don't need to actually "mount" them on a bar, either front or rear. If the cradle is made right, it'll hook up via D Shackles and then out to tree or some other anchor point.

Example
123997

[Chops]

Sorry for the delay,, finally stars aligned and pics taken. You can see several bolts that hold the cover plates on,, once removed there's a fair amount of access to the winch. Whether it's enough for what's needed I'm not sure, but I would think so.

[Strop]

Marcus, is that removable plate a front bash plate (engine/sump guard) ? Just wondering if you get the OL bar if it comes with that guard or is an option.

Laurie

[Chops]

Marcus, is that removable plate a front bash plate (engine/sump guard) ? Just wondering if you get the OL bar if it comes with that guard or is an option.

Laurie


Comes with the bar Laurie, but I wouldn't call it a "bash plate" as such. It is fairly heavy duty looking, but I certainly wouldn't class it a s a bash plate. Realistically, I'd need to pull it all apart to see just how sturdy it all is.

[Strop]

Couldn't think of a better name. I will have to go down to some of the 4wd shops when next in the big smoke or bigger smoke to have a gander.

Thanks

Laurie