T/C leak,has anyone got a guaranteed fix.

[PAT303]

So I've had enough of gearbox to T/C seal leaks,has anyone got a fix they used that's guaranteed to last longer than 12 months?.I'm seriously contemplating putting a gasket between the GB and TC or a tube of ultra blue.So what techniques have members used that worked. Pat

[DazzaTD5]

Is it leaking gearbox fluid or transfer case fluid?

Either way, are you replacing the the sleeve that both seals run on?
Its cheap and not difficult to replace.

Regards
Daz

[PAT303]

Daz,the Tdi has been leaking for 15 years and the TDCi started about a month ago,I have a feeling both are leaking from the intermediate shaft or T/C input seal.I don't want to remove the T/C's because they are an awkward PITA on your own in the driveway so I'm thinking of sliding them back on longer bolts and a trolley jack enough to either get a good bead of sealant in between or a gasket.The best fix is a sleeved casing but that's not going to happen at the moment. Pat

[Don 130]

I'm also interested in this issue. I got the T/C re-sealed and a 'new' reconditioned R380 fitted 18 months ago. Already something is leaking. On my list today is to find out which one.
Then comes the job of pulling stuff out and fixing it, so I don't want to do it again for a long time.
Don.

[DazzaTD5]

Daz,the Tdi has been leaking for 15 years and the TDCi started about a month ago,I have a feeling both are leaking from the intermediate shaft or T/C input seal.I don't want to remove the T/C's because they are an awkward PITA on your own in the driveway so I'm thinking of sliding them back on longer bolts and a trolley jack enough to either get a good bead of sealant in between or a gasket.The best fix is a sleeved casing but that's not going to happen at the moment. Pat

Awkward you say??? .....and.... its a Defender.
Your talking about the standard transfer case leak, good grief dont bodge it up with goo, sheesh..
The old Defender is prolly due for a rebuild by now anyway?
And the "new" Defender has done what 100 - 150K? so hrmm same same

For goodness sake, just pay me the big dollars and send both to me to fix [tonguewink][tonguewink]

Regards
Daz

[alien]

From what I've read and experienced the leaks is usually the intermediate shaft O rings.
There is a modification where the housing is machined and a sleave inserted the stop the leak.
Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/diy-rebuild-kits/lt230-rebuild-kits/lt230-sleeved-casing.html)
There are members on here who have done this modification locally too.

[PAT303]

Awkward you say??? .....and.... its a Defender.
Your talking about the standard transfer case leak, good grief dont bodge it up with goo, sheesh..
The old Defender is prolly due for a rebuild by now anyway?
And the "new" Defender has done what 100 - 150K? so hrmm same same

For goodness sake, just pay me the big dollars and send both to me to fix [tonguewink][tonguewink]

Regards
Daz

Rebuild Pffff,she's only done 507K,just bedded in.All the improvements such as sleeved housings etc only work for a year or two before they start again,the reason I'm thinking of sealing the two halves together.A few hours work with a good flexible joint sealer is worth the effort if successful.And yes the T/C is awkward for one person lying on their back in their driveway,we don't all have a hoist in the back shed [bigwhistle]. Pat

[DazzaTD5]

Rebuild Pffff,she's only done 507K,just bedded in.All the improvements such as sleeved housings etc only work for a year or two before they start again,the reason I'm thinking of sealing the two halves together.A few hours work with a good flexible joint sealer is worth the effort if successful.And yes the T/C is awkward for one person lying on their back in their driveway,we don't all have a hoist in the back shed [bigwhistle]. Pat

No no no... that wont work! because the intermediate shaft is just about clear of the gearbox adapter housing so sealing between the two wont work.
And if you mean sealing between the two as in from left to right, in between the two housings...... then well thats just a disgusting thing to do to a Defender..... and it still wont fix the leak [tonguewink][tonguewink]


If you persist in complaining about ur leaking Land Rovers, do this...
Remove transfer case.
*undo retaining nut on intermediate shaft and tap back a wee way and remove o-ring.
*clean end of shaft and as much of the transfer case face around the shaft as you can with brake clean and a brush.
*replace oring, and then use your sealant (I use Dow Corning 732 white on transfer cases) apply sealant around shaft (yes round the o-ring, all very incorrect).
*refit, apply sealant over the end of the shaft, you will see that the shaft once fitted back will sit a few mm below the case face, fill this with sealant and use a flat tool/scraper as like a putty knife and trowel it flat.

If you have been squeaky clean this will work.

Regards
Daz

[PAT303]

I've done the O rings and seals in both vehicles,as have many owners,what your saying is similar to what I was looking at doing.It's just annoying that the intermediate shaft is covered by the gearbox housing,another half inch more clearance you could do the o ring without removing the T/C.

[Tins]

Run them without oil. That way they can't leak, and Dazza can get some work... God this stuff's easy..[wink11]

[roverrescue]

Pat
I just did a 80oookm service after a two week Cape Trip
My t-case now has the inter shaft leak

I sleeved my old fenders case with a stepped 4140 sleeve
That worked for 20oookm or so

But spitballing now - what if instead of a sleeve we turned a cup
OD press fit to enlarged hole in case (with locktight sealant)
ID sliding fit to shaft
As it's caped off you wouldn't even need to use an o-ring????
In fact an oring would hamper inter shaft installation due to air-lock in the cup

Thoughts

Steve

[PAT303]

I like that idea,the inter shaft is a gift that keeps on giving,maybe capping it is the go. Pat

[roverrescue]

Pat if you have someone local who can mill your case
I have a few slugs of 4140 and could spin you up a capped sleeve
You can be test case one before I do mine

S

[rangieman]

Why not capped with a welsh plug[wink11]

[Toxic_Avenger]

I was reading and thinking 'a welsh plug could do it'.
I have the leaky 'box syndrome. From what I can see in-situ, the (dealer? more likely than not) used the old blob of silastic trick, which seems now to have grown into a bit bigger leak. Well... big by my standards at least. Maybe I'm not a true landy owner yet. Some measure their leaks in litres.

[incisor]

Some measure their leaks in litres.

or square metres as is the case with my rangie....

[rick130]

I can't believe I'm going to admit this on a public forum, but here goes....

My rebuilt t/case leaks from the sleeved intermediate shaft too.

When I had the machine shop do it, I gave them a shaft plus my measurements and the thing was damned near a press fit when it came to assembly. It was a tight push fit like a gudgeon pin.
It was so tight I couldn't get the O ring in without it shaving it, regardless of tools I made to get it in the bore. It didn't help that i forget to get them to put a slight lead on the bore.
I think I went through three or four O rings before giving up, I had to get it all together and back on the road.
Between an engine rebuild and t/case rebuild it'd been off the road for about three months.

I knew it would leak, so I smeared the shaft externally with RTV.

I noticed a leak after about 3000km (an ever so slight one) and has a smear of Gear 300 atm. [bigwhistle]

I have to say it's the least the t/case has leaked in fifteen years of ownership, and interestingly the D2 has a dry t/case, but I must admit I haven't checked the fluid level yet, too many other bloody issues like breakdowns, coolant leaks and diesel leaks so far !

[justinc]

One of the issues with sealing off the end via the capping method is that mostly the cases leak there from the shaft eating its way into the case. Obviously an old/hard and useless o ring is also a huge factor, however unless a sleeve is inserted to stop the movement of the shaft and then a cap of some kind then you are still not fixing one of the underlying causes.

Jc

[Tins]

Why not capped with a welsh plug[wink11]

Now, where do I find a 47.5mm welsh plug..... Hmm....




Just guessing, guys....

[Tins]

or square metres as is the case with my rangie....

I try not to let mine stand still that long..

[rangieman]

One of the issues with sealing off the end via the capping method is that mostly the cases leak there from the shaft eating its way into the case. Obviously an old/hard and useless o ring is also a huge factor, however unless a sleeve is inserted to stop the movement of the shaft and then a cap of some kind then you are still not fixing one of the underlying causes.

Jc
Maybe i should have added a little more detail of my thinking,
Make the sleeve so it will accept a welsh plug for after assembly fitment [wink11]

[Tins]

I can't believe I'm going to admit this on a public forum, but here goes....

That's OK, get it off your chest, that's what we're here for...

[PAT303]

Well all the leaky T/C's are coming out of the woodwork now. Pat

[POD]

I was musing over an improvement to the bush setup a while ago, the idea I came up with (as yet untried) was to make a threaded cap to screw in behind the head of the intermediate shaft. The head of the shaft would have to be reduced slightly in length, which shouldn't be a problem if it is bearing in a steel bush rather than the aluminium case. A screw-in cap about 6mm thick with a couple of blind holes for a 2-pin spanner, thread sealant for good measure.
If I can ever get through all the projects I have on the go, I will knock something up to see how the dimensions work.

[roverrescue]

This my thoughts on paper
Cross section of case Ishaft removed for clarity
4140 bush press fit with locktight to case (black).
Tight Slide fit cap with sealant around the flange.

I don't think the trouble of threading the flange is worth it????

Steve

[rick130]

This my thoughts on paper
Cross section of case Ishaft removed for clarity
4140 bush press fit with locktight to case (black).
Tight Slide fit cap with sealant around the flange.

I don't think the trouble of threading the flange is worth it????

Steve

That'd work, a threaded end is becoming too complex for no real gain, but having a lead on the bush would help not bugger up the O ring on assembly.
I was probably going overboard, but I used a top hat section bush in the t/case too, and I really went overboard with the steel sandwich plate between the extended sump and case to prevent any (potential) case flex during high torque/load situations with the lower low range gearing. i think it was Sitec I pinched that idea from.

[POD]

This my thoughts on paper
Cross section of case Ishaft removed for clarity
4140 bush press fit with locktight to case (black).
Tight Slide fit cap with sealant around the flange.

I don't think the trouble of threading the flange is worth it????

Steve

I don't think that will fly- I'd have to have a a look underneath but I think the gearbox comes too close to the diameter of the shaft to have anything proud of the front of the transfer case.
Threading the bush would be a sight less work than pulling the transfer case out again to fix another leak; even if not, I'd rather spend a week making threads on the lathe than a day taking the transfer case out. I reckon positive containment is the thing to aim for.
And yes it is essential to have a lead-in for the O-ring.

[justinc]

The other possibility is to machine another o ring groove in the intermediate shaft. In addition to the steel insert that is required to prevent the shaft eating away at the case. Another preventative measure is to ensure the bearing preload is right. Ditching the solid spacers and going back to the old ways ie a crushable spacer is the first thing to do....

Jc

[roverrescue]

Justin I did think with a longer bush a second o-ring could be machined but with a cap? Meh!
POD I thought I measured at least 10mm of clearance - plenty room for this design???

S

[PAT303]

I'm looking at a fix now,the Tdi is at least two years away from a rebuild which will have all the mods to fix all the T/C issue's,I'm going to try and seal it with goop for the time being,sick of the leaks. Pat

[bee utey]

Cut a circle of tin around the same size as the shaft boss, clean the area thoroughly and silicone it over the shaft. If the shaft moves the tin won't allow the oil out.

[workingonit]

I have a t/case on the floor and pondering a fix. It attaches to an auto box. Anything sitting too proud and broad of the intermediate hole may require some machining to the corresponding mating surface of the auto, and the material is not all that thick in that area - there is probably about 6 mm of gap.

Years ago I purchased a steel sleeve from MR Auto for this issue. The case would need to be milled to fit the steel ring. I can do the milling, but several things weigh on my mind - I might stuff up the milling (small chance) - but more importantly, while the steel insert may stop enlongation of the hole in the alloy casing, it won't stop the 0-ring being destroyed again and the leak will be back. I also wonder if in the long term any steel ring will loosen under the forces ie there will still be deformation of the case, but more widely spread out.

The bolted end of the shaft is supported in a way that stops movement - no leaks.

I'm wondering at the moment if the offending end of the shaft could be chamfered more extensively. A steel cap would be made that has an internal chamfer to match. When driven in, the cap chamfer will pick up on the shaft chamfer, giving the end of the shaft some support against movement (like a collet in a chuck). The o-ring will not be subject to so much compression. The cap will have a tab to one side that can be bolted to/through the casing, providing more resistance to movement. The downside might be that because the shaft wants to move it may force the cap away. This might be countered by drilling and threading a hole in the end of the shaft - drill a hole through the cap - draw the two together with a bolt.

Alternatively, rather than a chamfer, the very end of the shaft is simply lathed to a slightly smaller diameter without encroaching on the o-ring. The proposed cap has a hole, rather than chamfer, to match the reduced diameter of the shaft. Again drawn together by a bolt.

[Ancient Mariner]

1/ Get a proper gearbox [wink11] Fixes the TC GB leak and faciliates the next step

2/Drill tap and install stud in cheese stick

3/Machine aluminium stepped plug install cheese stick and plug with your prefered goop

4/Enjoy leak free TC

This is where I disagree with JC .The solid spacer is one of the better TC mods just not suitable for the GB setup as it needs preload reset after say 20000 k

Drop the sump knock out the shaft and reset on the bench but need a lathe and dial gauge


AM

[Vern]

That is exactly what i was thinking what is in the pic Noel, just couldn't be bothered posting the idea. Will go this route if mine starts to leak