Small Mill Machine - Looking To Buy

[Chilly]

Hi All,

I will tell you a story.

I need to drill some holes...quite a few. So I thought I would look at getting a cheap Bench Press Drill. Had a look on the internet and local hardware shops and Bunnings. I came across a Boosch mini Bench Press Drill. $400. Nice and small so I could put away after use....limited space in garage. Did a bit of research and found that some are reported as having issues drilling run out. Whilst searching a few mini Mill Machines came up. A little bit more expensive!! Wishing to do a bit of milling on occasions and no longer working, so cannot get it done at work, I though this might be a better option. Now the fun begins when you look at reviews and types etc.

So, I would like to ask those in the forum who perhaps have one of these type of mills what your thoughts are on the one you have and any recommendations you have.

I am aware that these cheaper mills will not be as accurate nor do such heavy work but for my needs as a home Mill they would be a good asset.

I believe many are made at the same Chines factory. Sieg is what I am told. They are also sold here by Ausee pty ltd.

Many reviews in America recommended certain brands....which are I believe to be a variation on the Sieg..might be wrong and happy to be given that advice/information.

Cost...well I started off thinking buying a cheap Bench Press Drill...$200-400 and guess now I am up to a bit more.....Not sure at this stage I can justify many thousands. really would like to stay round or below $2000 but if the evidence /advice points to a bit more for future proofing or being frustrated I cannot do jobs required then I guess I would push the boat out a bit more. I am aware in buying on that there is an ongoing cost...reasonably steep at the start for buying equipment needed to make the mill useable...vice, collets, etc. going forward....I also
Would appreciate your thoughts on a machine that can be adapted to CnC capability further down the track...

Thank you,

Chilly

[goingbush]

I bought a cheap chinese Mill Drill from eBay & can not believe how I ever lived without it .

Ive had it less than a year and it has paid for itself many times over . The only issue I have with it is the motor has a starting issue I can have it replaced under warranty but will upgrade to 3 phase with VFD

this exact mill / drill from same seller.
Geared Head Dovetail Milling & Drilling Machine 1100W/240V/ (Mill Drill) | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Geared-Head-Dovetail-Milling-Drilling-Machine-1100W-240V-Mill-Drill-/382090399007?hash=item58f65ccd1f:m:mkVhDhzve60oQxg B5qMxnZg)

The exact same mill goes for up to $5000 when rebranded.

[goingbush]

I use it for fixing Iveco transfer cases

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/05/21.jpg

and machining these things
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/05/22.jpg


Also nothing else can do PCD holes !! - e.g. modify brake rotors .

[Chilly]

I had seen that on Ebay. Could not find any reviews...so it is good to hear from you.

Interesting how he says a geared head is better than belt...many reviewers say the opposite...any thoughts on that?

O....and being new to terms used....I just use to use a mill as required and was self taught.....what is BAPPING????

Thanks

[Chilly]

Looks impressive! I see it is pretty heavy as well as some 340kgs.

What have you mounted it too?

[goingbush]

I'm self taught too, never used a milling machine until I bought that.
Geared head is noisy, but more to do with the cheap chinese bearings & casting sand left in from manufacture. I have a tutorial on how to strip it & replace with proper bearings. I'll do that when I change the motor.

I made a table for it , not bolted to floor, no problem does not vibrate or move.

Not sure but I think bapping is when you tilt the head & machine at an angle. will upload a photo taken back a bit so you can see better.

[goingbush]

I also put TouchDRO on it , using cheap igaging scales (eBay) and and old Android tablet . look up "Yuryis Toys" for info on TouchDRO it turns the cheap chinese mill into a precision instrument . Love it !!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/05/20.jpg

[goingbush]

heres one showing the 'table' ... er stand . For the price the machine is a bloody bargain. Just don't use tools that are too big for it, like the face mill that comes with it is probably too big if you have the quill extended .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/05/19.jpg

[Killer]

I had seen that on Ebay. Could not find any reviews...so it is good to hear from you.

Interesting how he says a geared head is better than belt...many reviewers say the opposite...any thoughts on that?

O....and being new to terms used....I just use to use a mill as required and was self taught.....what is BAPPING????

Thanks


I think they probably mean tapping.

Cheers,
Mick.

[cjc_td5]

Great thread. Could be very dangerous for my wallet! [bigrolf][bigrolf]

Hey mods, any chance this thread could be moved to "Tool Time" so I have a hope of finding it again in the future?

Chris

[Chilly]

I think they probably mean tapping.


Cheers,
Mick.

Hi Mick,

I did wonder but have come across strange names in the past.

Thanks for clearing that up!

Feel a bit of a fool now but hey...better the feeling than the being!

[pop058]

Great thread. Could be very dangerous for my wallet! [bigrolf]

[B]Hey mods, any chance this thread could be moved to "Tool Time" so I have a hope of finding it again in the future?

Chris

Good idea and quite possible. Diplomacy dictates we ask the OP. What say you, Chilly [wink11].

[Chilly]

Good idea and quite possible. Diplomacy dictates we ask the OP. What say you, Chilly [wink11].

Hi,

I did not even know there was a 'tool time'!!!

More than happy to have it moved to a more suitable location.

Thank you for asking.

Chilly

[pop058]

Hi,

I did not even know there was a 'tool time'!!!

More than happy to have it moved to a more suitable location.

Thank you for asking.

Chilly

You thread is now in "Tool Time". I have left a redirect in the old location for a month just incase someone looks there.

[Chops]

Sighhhhh [bigsad]

[loanrangie]

My dad has a her less drill / milling machine , very handy and I have used it to mill down a 3.5 manifold for a holley conversion and for defacing a timing cover after having it welded.

[steveG]

I'm in a similar boat, need a decent drill press but could definitely use a mill. When you look at the price of a quality drill press, the drill/mill that Goingbush has isn't much dearer, and would be a lot more flexible.
I've been told that you should buy table to spindle height in a mill as its quickly used up. Once you take into account a vice/fixture and a cutter a small machine may not have much room left for the job itself. Again, that same machine that Goingbush has seems to have a decent height for its size/cost.

The HM30/RF30 style machine is another single phase mill/drill thats quite common and I've seen some go for less than $1000 used recently - at least one had some basic tooling with it.
Also a reasonable amount of info online on them.

There's definitely a bunch of keen DIY CNC guys around with the Sieg's so probably not a bad option if you really want to go there.
My personal view is that if you're older (assumption from your "no longer working" comment) and have no prior CNC or milling experience - as awesome as it would be - you'll likely to never get to the point where you end up spending the time/effort/money doing a CNC conversion.
If you do happen to get there, its quite likely that things have moved on - either there are better/easier models to convert, or you've found you need a different machine than you initially thought so will be looking at upgrading.

Keen to hear what you end up getting :)

Steve

[goingbush]

Good point on the height Steve, Also when looking at low end Mill/Drills try to steer clear of a tubular , (drill press style) vertical post, they are not rigid enough . The biggest criticism you read about Chinese Mills is they are not rigid which is why the Dovetail frame has it all over the tube . Its quite solid , well its no Bridgeport but it certainly does what I need & can envisage needing.

The photo showing the full view of the mill with stand the head is only 2/3 the way up the column, so it got some height left . I wanted one that would take the full height of an Iveco Transfer Case under it & it certainly does that.

[workingonit]

Totally new to the field I bought my gear on the basis of thread comments made by hobby machinists...'It's a nice machine, but a bit small now'...'gee, I wish I had a larger machine to start with'...'stretch the budget and get the biggest you can'...etc.

As others have said, once you start adding vice clamps, rotary tables, milling tools etc, the deck space quickly disappears.

CNC - throw it in the back of your landy with some stock and get the part you need anytime.

Pocket NC Company (http://www.pocketnc.com/)

It's a slippery slope - you'll want a CAD program next!

And there's 'making the tool to make the tool'.

[Chilly]

Sighhhhh [bigsad]

Whats the sigh for Chops?

[Chilly]

Totally new to the field I bought my gear on the basis of thread comments made by hobby machinists...'It's a nice machine, but a bit small now'...'gee, I wish I had a larger machine to start with'...'stretch the budget and get the biggest you can'...etc.

As others have said, once you start adding vice clamps, rotary tables, milling tools etc, the deck space quickly disappears.

CNC - throw it in the back of your landy with some stock and get the part you need anytime.

Pocket NC Company (http://www.pocketnc.com/)

It's a slippery slope - you'll want a CAD program next!

And there's 'making the tool to make the tool'.

I understand these comments made. However I will not be using for 'work' nor am I expecting to spend lots of money on one,(read many thousands). A more of a hobby doing things I wish to every now and then,(or more if that is the case). Appreciate it has to be able to do that work which is why I have asked for advice on Mills available and experiences of members. I am starting from the point of buying a Press Drill. The Mill suggested meets many of the criteria's for me....and some. I would like one which is quiet so not to annoy neighbours and create bad feeling. I would like too 'if I wish too later' to CNC it but I am not going to do as so as I buy...if at all. However I like the idea of being able to do more and also learn this side of things.
I also understand much equipment soon adds up and can clog things...but I have plenty of time to put on and take off.

workingonit : I may of missed it....but what gear did you buy?

Thanks

Chilly

[Chilly]

My dad has a her less drill / milling machine , very handy and I have used it to mill down a 3.5 manifold for a holley conversion and for defacing a timing cover after having it welded.

Hey Loanrangie. I think the word of spell correct has gotten to your comments. Would I be correct in thinking you mean a 'Peerless Mill'? Which model?

Thanks Chilly

[Chilly]

I'm in a similar boat, need a decent drill press but could definitely use a mill. When you look at the price of a quality drill press, the drill/mill that Goingbush has isn't much dearer, and would be a lot more flexible.
I've been told that you should buy table to spindle height in a mill as its quickly used up. Once you take into account a vice/fixture and a cutter a small machine may not have much room left for the job itself. Again, that same machine that Goingbush has seems to have a decent height for its size/cost.

The HM30/RF30 style machine is another single phase mill/drill thats quite common and I've seen some go for less than $1000 used recently - at least one had some basic tooling with it.
Also a reasonable amount of info online on them.

There's definitely a bunch of keen DIY CNC guys around with the Sieg's so probably not a bad option if you really want to go there.
My personal view is that if you're older (assumption from your "no longer working" comment) and have no prior CNC or milling experience - as awesome as it would be - you'll likely to never get to the point where you end up spending the time/effort/money doing a CNC conversion.
If you do happen to get there, its quite likely that things have moved on - either there are better/easier models to convert, or you've found you need a different machine than you initially thought so will be looking at upgrading.

Keen to hear what you end up getting :)

Steve

Hi Steve,
An interesting read and good points made.

The no longer working was in reference to taking Vol Redundancy and at the same time having a total knee replacement. I hope to be working again in two to three months...when the knee is strong enough....being an old 50 year old...51 next Wednesday! This time off gives me a chance to do some jobs I have to do. Some drilling and tapping of work. This lead me to looking at Drill Press and then the ball rolling to a Mill. I wish to make a few things such as rock sliders. With a mill I can for instance make some nice end caps.

The points you make do give me concern about the future requirements. However have to start somewhere.
I think what I need to do is create a spreadsheet of spec and prices etc to be able to compare. I do like the Mill suggested. Good price, spec, recommend by a member. A bit concerned about the motor failure and i will not be changing to three phase. Good they covered with warranty. I have enquired on some specs but got told they are just an online supplier and know nothing....bit of a concern, too to contact warehouse guy who might be able to help. Have a quote for delivery.

Chilly

[goingbush]

Hey Chilly,

My shed is only about 5 meters from the house , wife can't hear it when se is inside or in the pool which I can see from the shed window. Shed is also bang on the neighbours fence, I have asked Neighbour if they can hear my Milling machine , Nope - but they can hear me swear when something goes wrong, I have a rug hanging on the wall of the shed behind mill, it absorbs noise. I don't need earmuffs whilst machining.


I did not explain 3 phase / VFD properly, Its a 3 Phase motor wired into a VFD box which plugs into a normal 240v 10A powerpoint VFD is Variable Frequency Drive , It allows you to change the speed off the motor . Mine is programmed to vary the freq from 25 to 85 Hz , You could got from 0-100 , but loose out on torque if you go too low or high.

I put one on my old Lathe & love it , the best thing is the soft starts & change to reverse without stopping, No belt changes . good bit of kit .

here is Youtube I did when I installed it


https://youtu.be/TyhfuTQ1FyI

[Chilly]

Hey goingbush,

That is good to hear about the noise etc.

That would be an interesting / good mod to make. I wonder if they come with three phase. Might ask the question.

Do you have a thread anywhere to look at how you did this? Would be interested in reading.

Have you doe any checking of tramming etc?

[Chops]

Whats the sigh for Chops?


Hi Chilly,,, just pondering/reflecting really [smilebigeye]. I'm always like this when people start talking tools etc. For almost 18 years I worked in a factory, 11.5 acres under roof which was "wall to wall" machinery. Although, having said that, its pre-set, whereby you walk up, put a part in a chuck, press the buttons and let it do its thing. Any monkey can do it with the right instructions. But, there's a few of us who like to play etc, and so, just being a monkey doesn't work. That being said, now I'm basically a Fitter & Machinist, learnt on the job through TAFE and other places, but although qualified, I tend not to go by that too much, it's been a long time.

Like a lot of us here, I love to tinker and make things, fix things, and I'm lucky because I get to do this at work sometimes [biggrin] as a Maintenance Fitter/Forklift Driver. At work, I do everything from rebuilding trailers for the bosses, fixing conveyors, refurbishing machines and even redesigning/modifying equipment. Its a good life sort of,,,,
But, I'd really love to have a shed full of gear myself, but the future at this point won't allow for this as we are going on a big trip, so alas, it will have to wait until we find somewhere to settle later in life,,,,, and have a really big shed with lots of good tools [wink11]

[Chilly]

Hey Chops,

I know how you feel. I think this will be the start for me of a longer term hobby. I can easily see me getting a lathe next. I also like doing woodwork so have a few items and plan to add to that too. I see me doing more in wood than metal...at this moment...

It is great you have the qualifications...read knowledge on using these tools. Last time was educated on Lathes, Mills etc was at school. Loved doing that sort of work but boy was it hard to get use of the machines...lots of kids and only a lathe and mill!!! Amy a time a elder student would be using them for the work for O levels or A levels.

Whereabouts are you based? Got any jobs going? ha ha!!!

O forgot....yes would love a big shed!!!

[workingonit]

Unfortunately I'm a self taught hobbyist, which can lead to some near disasters. I'd like to have professional training experience, at then 55 I asked TAFE about enrollment but was told I'd have to have an apprenticeship!

I bought two large machines from Hafco - lathe and mill - each weighs about 850kg. One apparent advantage is they 'shake the machine down' before it goes to the customer.

The variety of things that you end up doing with lathes and mills goes well beyond your original intentions. I've cut threads where I can't get the right bolt. Made a number of tools to work on the LRovers. Milled clutch plates. Made a four sided shaft with one degree taper to save a $20 ice shaver that we like very much (sometimes its just for the challenge of doing it). Parts for the kids electric cars. Mini tank track and spur gear. Tractor parts. Gear shift mechanism, etc.

My comment about the deck space disappearing quickly was not about clogging your workshop with tooling or that you will have the time to mount gear. What I was getting at is that you should visualise for example the maximum height of work you will be tackling, then add to this the the height of the tool that is going to hold your work, then add it the height of the tool bit that is going to hover over your work so that you can get the right sized machine. The deck space of your machine quickly disappears. Again, the hobbyists' lament of wishing to have gone bigger to start with.

I buy some bits from this company. The hobby orientated businesses often have bits that the large guys aren't interested in stocking. They may have some machines with specifications and price that suit you. Unfortunately a bit lax with his photos, which I've mentioned to him, but very helpful guy. Some hobby orientated companies have discount purchasing deals with the big guys and can get you stuff cheaper than the big guys are willing to give directly.

Mills & Accessories Mills (http://www.minitech.com.au/mills-accessories/mills/)

If your going to get into CNC (not to be mistaken for simply adding a couple of digital read outs to a manual machine) then more than likely you will need to start learning design software and the steps required to convert it to g-code. I dabble in open source stuff, currently learning FreeCAD. This also opens up the world of finite element analysis (stress testing your designs), more for fun and curiosity for me at this stage. You'll never truly 'retire'. :)

[goingbush]

CNC not even on my horizon, CAD way out of my depth , The local metal cutters cringe when they see me come in with a cardboard template of something I want Plasma cut from sheet , it would be so much easier with a CAD file, not going to happen though !! But I do love the DRO mostly because it makes backlash in the lathe or mill slides mostly irrelevant , and Im hopeless at reading a micrometer .

[loanrangie]

Hey Loanrangie. I think the word of spell correct has gotten to your comments. Would I be correct in thinking you mean a 'Peerless Mill'? Which model?

Thanks Chilly
No definitely herless not sure of model.

[workingonit]

Sneaking suspicion that Herless was a Hare and Forbes product, later Hafco, and now Machineryhouse.

[Chilly]

CNC not even on my horizon, CAD way out of my depth , The local metal cutters cringe when they see me come in with a cardboard template of something I want Plasma cut from sheet , it would be so much easier with a CAD file, not going to happen though !! But I do love the DRO mostly because it makes backlash in the lathe or mill slides mostly irrelevant , and Im hopeless at reading a micrometer .

I totally understand the reading of a micrometer...eye sight not as good as once upon a time. I definitely see the advantage or even 'need' for a DRO. Especially for accuracy.

CAD would be lovely to have but I believe is expensive....(probably going to get told different now). [biggrin]

I think I need...in fact I know I need to research CNC to see if it is something I would ever use or justify in cost!

I have ben quoted for delivery of the Mill you have. Thinking I might hold back until I can drive and have a road trip down to pick one up...if this is what I buy.

[workingonit]

Despite having a mill I will often take a simple drilling task to a pedestal drill or even cordless hand drill [tonguewink]

Seems like you have a mill in mind. Try and get digital readout included if you can.

What accessories are you thinking of getting?

Clamp kits are very useful if not a must. Fairly cheap.

A run of the mill (pun) hardware vice is not so good, it will get you by on some things, otherwise get a milling vice or resort to the clamp kit. Good vice is some what expensive.

Some squared blocks are handy and a right angle square is a necessity. Check the square against a point on a straight edge, rule a line from the point, flip the square and make a second line from the same point. If the lines are exactly on each other full length then fine. otherwise divergent lines indicate the rule is not square. A good square is cheap - I use a made in the USA fibre plastic handle stainless blade from Bunnings.

Carbide scribe for marking steel. Don't get the retractable type. Cheap.

Centre drill is good for creating an accurate start hole in the steel. It is designed not to wander as it starts the hole. Cheap.

High speed steel mills and drills are fine for many applications, but is a little flexible. Carbide cuts most things, is far less flexible giving more accurate results, keeps a keen edge longer, but don't drop it or it will shatter. You will also have to think about how you are going to sharpen all these things. High speed steel moderate cost, carbide a bit more.

Some mills come with a regular chuck, has a broad range of capacity, ok for general drilling and depending on the quality may get adequate milling results. Collets are better, but you need many collets to cover the range of drill sizes - and don't skimp on the quality of a collet set - real cheap sets have few flutes in the spring body allowing the cutting tool to walk out of the collet and into your mill deck. Reasonably expensive.

Sometimes you will want to centre a hole that needs upsizing, or bring an edge into alignment with your cutting tool. Here you will need some sort of edge finder. Fairly cheap.

A good mill can be run in reverse, often for a choice between regular and step climbing(?) (terminology escapes me). If reversible then probably avoid chucks and the like that are screwed on, unless the vendor can guarantee they will not unscrew when in reverse - the better option is a mill that has draw bars to hold the tool on. Not that you are at the lathe stage (yet), but the same principles apply, preference being cam lock chucks instead of threaded chucks.

FreeCAD is...wait for it...free! [wink11]

I did about 2 of the short beginners online tutorials before being able to take off on my own.

The cost in time is another matter.

There are a few free or very cheap CAD systems. Some of the less expensive go on to require add-ons and more dollars.

My understanding is CNC relates well to solid modelling ie FreeCAD.

CNC at the moment does not get on well with mesh modelling.

You can do sophisticated design using mesh surfaces - creating creatures for movie animation for example. Simple to pull/push/drag mesh to make an adjustment to get the shape you want. However, CNC sees a rough, ill defined surface, sometimes with gaps in the framework.

In solid modelling you take for example standard well defined shapes like cubes, circles, cones etc then add them, subtract then, difference them etc until you get the shape you want. You can also use lofts, rotated profiles, sweeps etc for shape development. More time consuming, but the math behind the program can work with this to give clearly defined shapes that CNC can use.

[workingonit]

Goingbush - taking a cardboard template to the local sheet metal shop - shear luxury lad (think Monty P) - in my time in Darwin cardboard was almost impossible to find, and if you did finally get a template, on paper bark, it would have to be flown down south at great expense, not to be seen for months, and the returned product entirely unfit for purpose.[bigsad]

[cjc_td5]

Chilly, if you are looking to down the lathe route in the future, you could go this way first as a lathe can be used to mill when set up correctly, i.e. cutting bit in the chuck, piece on the bed??

C

[Chops]

Good milling vices are big and expensive,, especially if your after good quality work. I've not seen many that are small and "right" without being very expensive,, but then everyone's budget is different.

I'd just go blocks/clamps and work with that, cheap and fairly easy.
As far as holding blocks/plates etc go,,, make them. Good practice for you if your learning,, whether your learning the machine or just generally learning to machine. All you really need to start with is a decent square as said, and my first blocks were just scrap pieces of angle and flat I acquired and then managed to get some bigger stuff to work with. Mind you, for me, this was easy because of where I was working.

[goingbush]

Speaking of clamping , Clamp Kit & 1-2-3 blocks are invaluable,
some imagination was needed here

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/06/557.jpg

[Ancient Mariner]

Save abit longer sell the missus or kids but get a second hand turret mill .2nd hand bridgeport would be my choice.Bought ours 35 years ago 2nd hand and still does nice work The thing with the Bridgeport Pacific or similar is they are set up to take a slotting head wich adds a new dimension to the machine Internal or ex keyways ,splines dog clutches.
I wouldn't worry about DRO at first. Our other mills have it but I am happy to use the Bridgeport with just a Quill DRO scale and a magnetic base with a dial indicator

Just my thoughts AM :wheelchair:

[ScotchRocks]

I have a lot of experience using AutoCAD (and a bit of SolidWorks) and lately have been playing around with 3D printing, which is basically CNC with building up material instead of removing it. You can make basic solids quite easily, I do a lot of rapid prototype design in (formerly google, now trimble) SketchUp which is ultra user friendly. Use a watertight plugin (makes sure your solid is a solid, with a contiguous internal void) then export it.

I haven't looked, but I am sure there will be a CNC community writing algorithms to translate 3D solids to CNC commands.

The main problem with CNC as opposed to 3D modelling is that you can only work from above (unless you have a nice big multi-axis industrial machine), so you need minimum 6 re-clampings of the work, with either very accurate repositioning or some adaptive feedback to the cutting head that finds a reference point on the work.

Looking into modelling and 3D printing small plastic parts that are traditionally injection moulded can be very cost effective for bits of trim, buttons, non structural mounting brackets.

There are also some really great emerging technologies in 3D printing metallic objects and prototypes. You can send your file off to an online service like 3D Metal Printing - Star Rapid (https://www.starrapid.com/services/3d-direct-metal-laser-melted-printed-parts/?gclid=Cj0KEQjw6-PJBRCO_br1qoOB4LABEiQAEkqcVdUCIbpRa8arp6vVMM6Av3bJ Ak7Xd9cx3Vr2DU0mTLUaAsQK8P8HAQ), Shapeways - 3D Printing Service and Marketplace (http://shapeways.com) and Online 3D Printing Service
| i.materialise (https://i.materialise.com)

If I had the time it would be great to get a database of 3D models for land rover parts that are hard to find or expensive happening, where people could print at home in starch/resin/nylon/etc. or online through other material providers.

[workingonit]

We have to get Chilly 'over the line' first before entice him with other stuff.

As Ancient indicates, a good second hand machine may get Chilly more for the money. Chilly could try the aulro courier service to see if his project parts could make it to FNQ for processing, and back.

[Killer]

Sneaking suspicion that Herless was a Hare and Forbes product, later Hafco, and now Machineryhouse.

Herless was a company in Melbourne, owned by Herb Lesser, hence the name. Like Hare and Forbes they sold a lot of Taiwanese machines rebranded with their name.

Cheers,
Mick.

[Killer]

Despite having a mill I will often take a simple drilling task to a pedestal drill or even cordless hand drill [tonguewink]

Seems like you have a mill in mind. Try and get digital readout included if you can.

What accessories are you thinking of getting?

Clamp kits are very useful if not a must. Fairly cheap.

A run of the mill (pun) hardware vice is not so good, it will get you by on some things, otherwise get a milling vice or resort to the clamp kit. Good vice is some what expensive.

Some squared blocks are handy and a right angle square is a necessity. Check the square against a point on a straight edge, rule a line from the point, flip the square and make a second line from the same point. If the lines are exactly on each other full length then fine. otherwise divergent lines indicate the rule is not square. A good square is cheap - I use a made in the USA fibre plastic handle stainless blade from Bunnings.

Carbide scribe for marking steel. Don't get the retractable type. Cheap.

Centre drill is good for creating an accurate start hole in the steel. It is designed not to wander as it starts the hole. Cheap.

High speed steel mills and drills are fine for many applications, but is a little flexible. Carbide cuts most things, is far less flexible giving more accurate results, keeps a keen edge longer, but don't drop it or it will shatter. You will also have to think about how you are going to sharpen all these things. High speed steel moderate cost, carbide a bit more.

Some mills come with a regular chuck, has a broad range of capacity, ok for general drilling and depending on the quality may get adequate milling results. Collets are better, but you need many collets to cover the range of drill sizes - and don't skimp on the quality of a collet set - real cheap sets have few flutes in the spring body allowing the cutting tool to walk out of the collet and into your mill deck. Reasonably expensive.

Sometimes you will want to centre a hole that needs upsizing, or bring an edge into alignment with your cutting tool. Here you will need some sort of edge finder. Fairly cheap.

A good mill can be run in reverse, often for a choice between regular and step climbing(?) (terminology escapes me). If reversible then probably avoid chucks and the like that are screwed on, unless the vendor can guarantee they will not unscrew when in reverse - the better option is a mill that has draw bars to hold the tool on. Not that you are at the lathe stage (yet), but the same principles apply, preference being cam lock chucks instead of threaded chucks.

FreeCAD is...wait for it...free! [wink11]

I did about 2 of the short beginners online tutorials before being able to take off on my own.

The cost in time is another matter.

There are a few free or very cheap CAD systems. Some of the less expensive go on to require add-ons and more dollars.

My understanding is CNC relates well to solid modelling ie FreeCAD.

CNC at the moment does not get on well with mesh modelling.

You can do sophisticated design using mesh surfaces - creating creatures for movie animation for example. Simple to pull/push/drag mesh to make an adjustment to get the shape you want. However, CNC sees a rough, ill defined surface, sometimes with gaps in the framework.

In solid modelling you take for example standard well defined shapes like cubes, circles, cones etc then add them, subtract then, difference them etc until you get the shape you want. You can also use lofts, rotated profiles, sweeps etc for shape development. More time consuming, but the math behind the program can work with this to give clearly defined shapes that CNC can use.


Workingonit, I think you are probably referring to Conventional and Climb Milling. With conventional milling the cutter pushes into the job it is cutting like a bulldozer blade, whereas with climb milling, the cutter pulls the job into it like a backhoe bucket. Climb milling requires a more rigid setup and a machine with small amounts of backlash, but gives a better finish. Conventional milling is often used for roughing and Climb milling used for finishing cuts. The spindle runs in the same direction, but the feed direction is reversed for conventional to climb milling. The main reason for having a reversing spindle would be for tapping holes and boring holes. Running the spindle in reverse means you can bore a hole with a right hand tool.

Cheers,
Mick.

[Chilly]

Hi All,

I have just purchased the mill that going bush has and added a link too. This one:

Geared Head Dovetail Milling & Drilling Machine 1100W/240V/ (Mill Drill) | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/382122530716)

I see on 'the net' there are a lot of mods done to these. From DRO to CNC.

For starters Ill be happy to unpack and use in its 'delivered' state.

Now to research equipment buying and making tool blocks etc. Making them as suggested by Chops!

Now going to reread thread to see what tips I need to be taking on board and preparing to do. Including buying some suitable tools to start me off.

Thank you to those who have contributed and advised. Will continue to read and learn.

Chilly

[steveG]

Great stuff Chilly :)

I'm keen to hear what tooling you end up buying to get you started, so keep updating!!

On a related front, after you started this thread I got sucked into a few milling videos on Youtube including some about milling vices. There are some vices by Glacern in the states that are pure tool porn (with a price to match), but "This Old Tony" did a strip down review on a Vertex VA4 vice which showed it was pretty accurate. They are available here through Machinerywarehouse for about $250 and struck me as likely being a good fit for a hobbyist.
Bearing in mind that I've got zero milling experience - but can use Google ;)

Steve

[Chilly]

Great stuff Chilly :)

I'm keen to hear what tooling you end up buying to get you started, so keep updating!!

On a related front, after you started this thread I got sucked into a few milling videos on Youtube including some about milling vices. There are some vices by Glacern in the states that are pure tool porn (with a price to match), but "This Old Tony" did a strip down review on a Vertex VA4 vice which showed it was pretty accurate. They are available here through Machinerywarehouse for about $250 and struck me as likely being a good fit for a hobbyist.
Bearing in mind that I've got zero milling experience - but can use Google ;)

Steve

Hi Steve,

Good info. Thank you! I will have a look at make a decision on this vice.

Lots of videos on you tube....can spend many an hour watching...speaking from some newly gained experience.

Going to have a bot of work to do now. Will have to make a bench for it. Will be a few weeks before that happens....still cannot drive but hopefully will get the ok in a couple of weeks.

Not sure on what tooling to get first so will take advise and do some you tube research as well as net reading.

Chilly

[Chilly]

Hi Goingbush,

What Vice did you buy? 4inch?

Chilly

[Chilly]

Hi Goingbush,

What Vice did you buy? 4inch?

Chilly

o...where did you get your DRO stuff from...any advice on doing this?

Thanks,

Chilly

[goingbush]

I'll take some photos of my tooling & accessories.

I bought Igaging scales off eBay and TouchDRO from Yuryis Toys
TouchDRO Project
|
Yuriy's Toys (http://www.yuriystoys.com/p/android-dro.html)

I got the 4" 10KG version of this vice. Though I have not needed the swivel base as yet. I just bolt the vice direct to the the mill table .
5" (125mm) Precision Milling Lathe Machine Vice + Swivel Base, Heavy Duty 15kg | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-125mm-Precision-Milling-Lathe-Machine-Vice-Swivel-Base-Heavy-Duty-15kg-/221931851542?hash=item33ac2b4f16:g:nkIAAOSwxH1UJOU p)

[goingbush]

Chilly,

I dont know if your on Facebook but I have posted some photos of my DRO setup on the Milling Machine group.

Let me know if you can view this,

Log in to Facebook | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/175007752926314/search/?query=touchdro)

cheers Don

[Chilly]

I'll take some photos of my tooling & accessories.

I bought Igaging scales off eBay and TouchDRO from Yuryis Toys
TouchDRO Project
|
Yuriy's Toys (http://www.yuriystoys.com/p/android-dro.html)

I got the 4" 10KG version of this vice. Though I have not needed the swivel base as yet. I just bolt the vice direct to the the mill table .
5" (125mm) Precision Milling Lathe Machine Vice + Swivel Base, Heavy Duty 15kg | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5-125mm-Precision-Milling-Lathe-Machine-Vice-Swivel-Base-Heavy-Duty-15kg-/221931851542?hash=item33ac2b4f16:g:nkIAAOSwxH1UJOU p)

I have been reading Yurlys toys....still confused. Will have to read a bit more. Did you buy the board etc from him too? Was not sure what way to go with the table measures.

Still waiting delivery of mill.....seems to be taking ages to get from Adelaide to Newcastle....let alone to me...ho hum!!

Trying to work out the differences in the two vices people seem to use. I have always used ones like you have but a lot of you tube videos show a different more expensive vine....any thoughts on this?
Thanks

[Chilly]

Chilly,

I dont know if your on Facebook but I have posted some photos of my DRO setup on the Milling Machine group.

Let me know if you can view this,

Log in to Facebook | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/175007752926314/search/?query=touchdro)

cheers Don

Hey Don,

I can see the group and have requested to join.

Thank you

[Ancient Mariner]

Boring the housing for oversize bushes for the pivot shaft on a Cat 12 grader . Also usefull for drilling boreing and facing large stuff that won't fit on the table

AM