What D3 to buy?

[Arapiles]

Dear All

First post - I was looking at buying a D4 as I need three rows of seats and would also like to have off-road ability. The car would mostly be used for country trips, so comfort on dirt and gravel roads is important to us. I've test driven a number of vehicles from different manufacturers, including Pajero Sport and a Y62 Patrol, but the D4 ticks more boxes, in particular the third row leg room. As we will nearly always be using the third row to carry kids we will need to have the C pillar vents, which so far has meant looking at HSEs (as I haven't located any TDV6s or SEs with that option). The prices - for cars with between 29,000 kms and 58,000 kms - have been about $78,000 pre-trade in. I was speaking to a friend today who has a D3 with 300,000+ kms who is looking at getting a D5 when they come out, who pointed out that there should presumably be more D4s available once the D5s arrive and that the prices should drop a bit at that time. I've also seen a few pretty clean D3s around, so am considering buying a D3 now (in the $30,000 range) and looking at the D4s in a year or so. D5s would be out of my price range. So, my question is, what would you look out for in a D3? Service history of course, but what in your opinion is the better engine, as there seem to be some very low mileage 4.0 V6s around. Anything to be wary of generally? How many kms would you draw the line at? Would you buy a car that has had the engine entirely replaced (there's a V8 on the web with 20,000 kms on the engine but 170,000 kms overall)?

Thanks in advance

[The Mighty Range Rover]

4.0 - poverty pack engine. Least powerful, worst economy (yes even worse than the v8 by a sliver). But, because they are the worst engine, they are usually bought by non enthusiasts (so minimal offroad use) and you can normally get them for quite cheap. Offsets the extra cost of the diesel in terms of economy for a few years.
Not slow by any means, just slower than the V8 and not at all gutsy compared to the diesel. Being a ford engine it's quite reliable and most of the parts are easily replaced/cheap.

I got a 4.0 with 136,000 for 20k. Rear aircon. I overpaid a little but you can get an SE with rear aircon, just has to be spec.

V8 wasn't sold after 2006, meaning you didn't get the 2007 electronic improvements, fixing a lot of the inital glitches the cambus had (brake light sensor for example). You know the car has the upgraded electrics if you have auto up/down windows for the driver and the passenger in the front. It's a jaguar engine, so parts are more expensive.

The TDV6 is pretty much the same one used in the territory, and from what i have read are not as reliable as the other two engines but nothing particularly scary (just normal diesel stuff). I believe it was partially developed by Peugeot or citroen, tinkered with by ford and land rover.

I don't know enough about diesels for servicing and stuff but around the price you are looking, transmission fluid will have to be changed, diff fluids need to be changed (its not on the service guide but it really needs to be done) the suspension compressor will probably neeed to be replaced, control arm bushes will most likely be worn. Wheel bearings might be on their way out too. This is all just from my experience of course. Nothing else really to go wrong that i am aware of. I trawled through the forum before i bought one to learn as much as i can.

If you can push for the D4 the diesels are much improved as i understand it, especially the 3 litre engines. Don't know anything about the V8 but they aren't very common.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[chuck]

The D4 SDV6 SE is a fantastic car & one advantage of getting a later model is that you could extend the factory warranty giving you an additional two years on what is left on the car.

The D3 is also a great car but early examples are now getting on to 12 years old so if you were to buy one and then have the worst happen you will be out of pocket a lot more.

Be interesting to see what resale will do with the D4 when the D5 is out there.

The D5 in the same spec as my D4 SDV6SE will cost a lot more so used prices may stay high until used D5's come on the market.

In many ways the D4 is a more practical car so be interesting to see if people hang on to them.

[Arapiles]

4.0 - poverty pack engine. Least powerful, worst economy (yes even worse than the v8 by a sliver). But, because they are the worst engine, they are usually bought by non enthusiasts (so minimal offroad use) and you can normally get them for quite cheap. Offsets the extra cost of the diesel in terms of economy for a few years.
Not slow by any means, just slower than the V8 and not at all gutsy compared to the diesel. Being a ford engine it's quite reliable and most of the parts are easily replaced/cheap.

I got a 4.0 with 136,000 for 20k. Rear aircon. I overpaid a little but you can get an SE with rear aircon, just has to be spec.

V8 wasn't sold after 2006, meaning you didn't get the 2007 electronic improvements, fixing a lot of the inital glitches the cambus had (brake light sensor for example). You know the car has the upgraded electrics if you have auto up/down windows for the driver and the passenger in the front. It's a jaguar engine, so parts are more expensive.

The TDV6 is pretty much the same one used in the territory, and from what i have read are not as reliable as the other two engines but nothing particularly scary (just normal diesel stuff). I believe it was partially developed by Peugeot or citroen, tinkered with by ford and land rover.

I don't know enough about diesels for servicing and stuff but around the price you are looking, transmission fluid will have to be changed, diff fluids need to be changed (its not on the service guide but it really needs to be done) the suspension compressor will probably neeed to be replaced, control arm bushes will most likely be worn. Wheel bearings might be on their way out too. This is all just from my experience of course. Nothing else really to go wrong that i am aware of. I trawled through the forum before i bought one to learn as much as i can.

If you can push for the D4 the diesels are much improved as i understand it, especially the 3 litre engines. Don't know anything about the V8 but they aren't very common.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks, that's very helpful. There's a V6 on the web with just over 80,000 kms and, as you say, it does look like it has been used off-road.

[DieselLSE]

Dear All

>I need three rows of seats
>will need to have the C pillar vents
>The prices - for cars with between 29,000 kms and 58,000 kms - have been about $78,000 pre-trade in.

Thanks in advance

Hi Arapiles,

I would argue that you should keep on looking for a suitable D4 as I'm sure one will pop up to suit you. I bought my 2013 D4 privately a few months ago for $58k. My only requirement was it was NOT to have a DPF, NOT to have a black interior and be less than 60,000km. It had done 42,000km, had been fully serviced and came with the third row seats, rear aircon, reversing camera and upgraded sound system. The irony is that I've permanently removed the third row seats and don't need the rear aircon. I would have happily done without those features and preferred to option power seats, sunroof and the e-diff (although, in hindsight, I haven't missed the sunroof and the seats are extremely comfortable as is). I had looked at runout/demo/new cars but they all had dark colours and the DPF which I didn't want.
As your requirements are quite modest, I'd be surprised if a suitable car wasn't on the market somewhere in Australia today.
I'd certainly limit any search to a D4 as the 3.0litre sequential dual turbo and the 8 speed transmission are an absolute delight and from about 2012 the D4 was a very well sorted car.

[Tins]

Be interesting to see what resale will do with the D4 when the D5 is out there.



I'm curious about that. From what I've read, there are quite a number of D3/4 owners a bit disappointed with their initial impressions of the D5, especially as a tourer. Do you think that D4 prices may hold until the new Defender lobs? Or should I say if it lobs?

[veebs]

I'm curious about that. From what I've read, there are quite a number of D3/4 owners a bit disappointed with their initial impressions of the D5, especially as a tourer. Do you think that D4 prices may hold until the new Defender lobs? Or should I say if it lobs?

Same here - I'm hoping the D5 is intended to cater to the current D4 crowd that only use these cars as the stereotypical "Chelsea Tractor". The new Defender then to replace the smaller group of D4 owners and all the defender guys that go offroad and want the practicality/capability.

As for the original question, I'd also keep looking for the D4 model that suits, and don't be afraid of the earlier models. The 6-speed gearbox is sweet - as long as it's serviced. The 3.0 engines are the pick, bear in mind early D4 "3.0 TDV6" models are the twin turbo engine, later re-branded as SDV6 (our dealer didn't know this, and priced the car based on the single turbo engine). That said, the 2.7s are no slouch, and have the added benefit of running on 18" wheels without needing aftermarket GOE rims - so better tyre options.
At around 170,000km (and/or 7 years) the timing belt needs to be changed in the diesels, which is a fairly pricey endeavour (i believe around $2k, but don't quote me on that). If the car is around that age I'd be checking it's been done. At those km, the transmission should also need it's second service (around $1k).

[Disco-tastic]

I paid just under $20k for a 4.0 V6 D3 SE with 150k km almost 2 years ago. My only complaint is the range! 80L will get me about 450km around town, and about 650km on the freeway. And it takes premium so im paying anywhere from $1.30 - 1.60 on the central coast.

I'd buy another petrol D3 because they are so cheap, and the motor is the cheapest to service. But I do wish I could afford a D4, as they are much nicer inside!

I've had to replace a door lock, a coolant overflow bottle, the air compressor dryer, a rear wheel bearing, both front hubs, the front ARB bushes and the front Lower Control Arms rear bushes. Its cost me just under $2k for the "repairs", but its all stuff youd replace on a similar mileage diesel.

Things i don't need to worry about are turbos, EGR coking up my engine, timing belts, expnsive injectors and a high pressure fuel system, which can all be expensive when they go wrong.

Hope that helps and happy hunting!

[Arapiles]

The D4 SDV6 SE is a fantastic car & one advantage of getting a later model is that you could extend the factory warranty giving you an additional two years on what is left on the car.

The 2014 HSE I've been offered for roughly mid 60s after trade in includes them throwing in a 2 year extended factory warranty (they're an LR dealer and they're adamant that it is in fact a factory warranty).

In relation to what the D5 will do to D4 prices, a couple of years ago (2014) I was looking at an XC90 just prior to the new (significantly more expensive) model being released - so, the same situation as with the D4/D5. The argument at the time was that because of the jump in price, the old ones would hold their value. 2014 model XC90s with around 40,000 kms are currently going for around $45,000. Given that most were probably $70,000 - $80,000 when new, that's a drop of roughly 35 - 40% over two or three years. Apply that to the current D4s at roughly $100k new on-road, and retail in two or three year's time could be $60k - $65k, and less as a trade-in.

[gofish]

What about somewhere in between. I am guessing a D4 with the 2.7 would be cheaper. Still have the D4 goodies just not the 3.0. I have the 2.7 & have driven the 3.0 also. Coming from a D2 I am more than happy with the 2.7

[The Mighty Range Rover]

I paid just under $20k for a 4.0 V6 D3 SE with 150k km almost 2 years ago. My only complaint is the range! 80L will get me about 450km around town, and about 650km on the freeway. And it takes premium so im paying anywhere from $1.30 - 1.60 on the central coast.

I'd buy another petrol D3 because they are so cheap, and the motor is the cheapest to service. But I do wish I could afford a D4, as they are much nicer inside!

I've had to replace a door lock, a coolant overflow bottle, the air compressor dryer, a rear wheel bearing, both front hubs, the front ARB bushes and the front Lower Control Arms rear bushes. Its cost me just under $2k for the "repairs", but its all stuff youd replace on a similar mileage diesel.

Things i don't need to worry about are turbos, EGR coking up my engine, timing belts, expnsive injectors and a high pressure fuel system, which can all be expensive when they go wrong.

Hope that helps and happy hunting!

I didn't know it takes premium? The engine doesn't need the higher octane as far as i'm aware..

[Disco-tastic]

I didn't know it takes premium? The engine doesn't need the higher octane as far as i'm aware..
To be honest i can't remember what the book says, but everything I read online said 95 octane or better.

[DI5CO]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/06/290.jpg

Yep, 95!

[letherm]

I didn't know it takes premium? The engine doesn't need the higher octane as far as i'm aware..

FWIW I did a test with my old Pajero a number of years ago comparing E10 to regular unleaded to premium (vortex 95/8 from memory) and found that the fuel consumption was better as you progressed from E10 to Vortex. The performance was noticeably better with the Vortex. Bottom line was that using the premium fuel saved money and the car performed better. Each test ran for 3 months so it was reasonably reliable.

Martin

[loanrangie]

I test drove a 4ltr d3 on Saturday and one look at the trip computer reading 22-24/100 is enough to put me off a petrol , pity because car was a very clean 07 with low k's and full service history.
Was advertised as a tdv6 which is why I went to look at it but seller stuffed up.

[DiscoJeffster]

I see 11.5/100 on my D4 3.0TDV6 on the city rat run doing kids school runs. Amazing in comparison

[The Mighty Range Rover]

FWIW I did a test with my old Pajero a number of years ago comparing E10 to regular unleaded to premium (vortex 95/8 from memory) and found that the fuel consumption was better as you progressed from E10 to Vortex. The performance was noticeably better with the Vortex. Bottom line was that using the premium fuel saved money and the car performed better. Each test ran for 3 months so it was reasonably reliable.

Martin


I Never use E10 but i didn't notice any difference between 91/95/98, despite all the branding on the more expensive fuels it's not really necessary to pay extra unless you have a performance car.

This is from the manual:

'Only use Unleaded 95 RON fuel to EN 228specification. Unleaded fuel no lower than 90RON may also be used.'

Just my opinion. I guess we disagree! [biggrin]

[Disco-tastic]

Huh! I never saw that in the manual. Will have to check again!

[Disco-tastic]

I test drove a 4ltr d3 on Saturday and one look at the trip computer reading 22-24/100 is enough to put me off a petrol , pity because car was a very clean 07 with low k's and full service history.
Was advertised as a tdv6 which is why I went to look at it but seller stuffed up.
Yeah i remember picking mine up after I'd bought it and the trip computer read 22L/100km. I was in sydney in stop start traffic though.

Up around the coast it averages about 17L/100km, though my wife does a lot of short 5min trips to the shops which dont help economy. The petrols apparently handle these short trips better than the diesels too.

Unless you're towing or touring frequently the petrol is good value [emoji106]

[loanrangie]

Yeah i remember picking mine up after I'd bought it and the trip computer read 22L/100km. I was in sydney in stop start traffic though.

Up around the coast it averages about 17L/100km, though my wife does a lot of short 5min trips to the shops which dont help economy. The petrols apparently handle these short trips better than the diesels too.

Unless you're towing or touring frequently the petrol is good value [emoji106]

Yeah value for money is high especially when they can be bought for around 15-16k, just dont think i can live with the lack of range/ fuel usage.
My run to work will cost me $30 more/week and i'd hate to think what towing does to lack of economy.

[Disco-tastic]

Hehe yeah ive only towed 500kg about 20km to the tip so cant comment on towing ;)

[veebs]

I test drove a 4ltr d3 on Saturday and one look at the trip computer reading 22-24/100 is enough to put me off a petrol , pity because car was a very clean 07 with low k's and full service history.
Was advertised as a tdv6 which is why I went to look at it but seller stuffed up.

I wouldn't read too much into the trip computer figures right out of the dealership - the boys there tend to drive these cars like they stole them. I remember picking up an X-trail once, with almost 30l/100km avg on it!
Longer term averages like those posted here are a much better indication :)

[DI5CO]

We used to start the cars once a week at the dealership so they would sit there idling for up to 1/2hr. Don't take any notice of the figures.

[loanrangie]

We used to start the cars once a week at the dealership so they would sit there idling for up to 1/2hr. Don't take any notice of the figures.

Surely it would adjust itself after a run ?

[veebs]

Surely it would adjust itself after a run ?

Depends over how long a time period it averages i guess?

[letherm]

I Never use E10 but i didn't notice any difference between 91/95/98, despite all the branding on the more expensive fuels it's not really necessary to pay extra unless you have a performance car.

This is from the manual:

'Only use Unleaded 95 RON fuel to EN 228specification. Unleaded fuel no lower than 90RON may also be used.'

Just my opinion. I guess we disagree! [biggrin]

No worries[smilebigeye]

Different car though so hard to tell, but it did perform better at the time.

Martin

[Tins]

I see 11.5/100 on my D4 3.0TDV6 on the city rat run doing kids school runs. Amazing in comparison

Strewth. No wonder the petrol cars are cheaper SH.

[Tins]

I Never use E10 but i didn't notice any difference between 91/95/98, despite all the branding on the more expensive fuels it's not really necessary to pay extra unless you have a performance car.

This is from the manual:

'Only use Unleaded 95 RON fuel to EN 228specification. Unleaded fuel no lower than 90RON may also be used.'

Just my opinion. I guess we disagree! [biggrin]

I think it very much depends on the car. We have a Ford 4.0, and it simply isn't worth running 98 in it, as I can't pick the difference. Previously, we had a MK 5 Golf 2.0. Always ran that on 98 as the difference was clear and measurable.

[Arapiles]

Thanks all for the responses.

[Russrobe]

Still think the 2.7 D4 is the pick of the bunch within budget of $30k to $35k . Make sure you buy from a reputable dealer in case you miss something, like I did, all $8000 worth.
.
Averaged 10l/100kms on the 265 60 18 Road tyres around town. Got 11l/100kms with the 285 ATs and 11.2l/100 now it's finished.

[loanrangie]

My budget won't extend to 30k but there are some good buys in the high 20's.

[Aussie Jeepster]

I got a low km D3 V6 petrol about 6 weeks ago and love it.
The drive back to Adelaide from Sydney averaged about 12L/100km, and driving locally around adelaide and suburbs, the trip meter is showing 15L/100km.
I didn't buy it for its fuel economy - I got it on price and low km plus I have every service ever recorded on it and also spoke to the previous owner.
I'm also loosing faith in diesels - yet I know the Landy diesel is good, but I just wasn't happy with some of the stuff I've read.
I also had a Wrangler diesel before the Perentie and got rid of it after I lost faith in its reliability!
I love the Disco - but coming from an ex-Army Perentie, anything is luxury!!!!!!

[loanrangie]

That's not bad AJ , I'm torn between petrol and diesel but I want a better touring range while towing so I'm the hunt for a low k tdv6 with service history.
Have seen an ideal car but its above my price range but has only 135k on the clock.

[veebs]

Still think the 2.7 D4 is the pick of the bunch within budget of $30k to $35k . Make sure you buy from a reputable dealer in case you miss something, like I did, all $8000 worth.
.
Averaged 10l/100kms on the 265 60 18 Road tyres around town. Got 11l/100kms with the 285 ATs and 11.2l/100 now it's finished.

Haha, I'm sensing a theme here - the guy with the TDV6 thinks its the pick, the guy with the petrol thinks that's the pick, the guy with the SDV6 can't imagine life with the V8...

Petrol vs Diesel, well, going on approximate (Perth) prices per litre of $1.28 for Petrol and $1.33 for Diesel, combined with the approximate efficiency of 15 and 11 for petrol and diesel respectively, you would only be $457 better off with the diesel over 10,000km. Factor in the presumably lower purchase price, removal of some service costs (timing belts spring to mind) and that difference will shrink even further :)

I dare say if you buy any D3/4 with solid service history and the spec you are after, the permagrin will appear in no time :-)

[Tins]

Haha, I'm sensing a theme here - the guy with the TDV6 thinks its the pick, the guy with the petrol thinks that's the pick, the guy with the SDV6 can't imagine life with the V8...

Petrol vs Diesel, well, going on approximate (Perth) prices per litre of $1.28 for Petrol and $1.33 for Diesel, combined with the approximate efficiency of 15 and 11 for petrol and diesel respectively, you would only be $457 better off with the diesel over 10,000km. Factor in the presumably lower purchase price, removal of some service costs (timing belts spring to mind) and that difference will shrink even further :)

I dare say if you buy any D3/4 with solid service history and the spec you are after, the permagrin will appear in no time :-)

Good points all, but overlooks the range issue. But if touring isn't on the agenda then .....

[loanrangie]

Fuel prices in Vic metro, petrol fluctuates with the tide but diesel is fairly steady and usually cheaper than petrol so the gap widens.
For the vehicle i want i will have to find another 8-10k or settle for higher mileage.

[Russrobe]

Yep range is the main reason for diesel over the petrol. There are certain tracks you just won't be able to do such as the CSR.

Like John says, very individual choice depening on what you're plan to do.

If i was going for a D3 petrol or diesel though due to them getting lower in price I'd be hunting for a HSE. They are just as good as the D4s base spec internally if not nicer in ways.

[loanrangie]

Yep range is the main reason for diesel over the petrol. There are certain tracks you just won't be able to do such as the CSR.

Like John says, very individual choice depening on what you're plan to do.

If i was going for a D3 petrol or diesel though due to them getting lower in price I'd be hunting for a HSE. They are just as good as the D4s base spec internally if not nicer in ways.

I have no intentions to do the CSR or go to the Cape, i found 3 HSE's just out of my price range but with lowish k's.
Just need to squeeze the etxra out of the budget or use partial finance.

[veebs]

I have no intentions to do the CSR or go to the Cape, i found 3 HSE's just out of my price range but with lowish k's.
Just need to squeeze the etxra out of the budget or use partial finance.

Long after the price is forgotten, the quality will remain...

[Aussie Jeepster]

That's not bad AJ , I'm torn between petrol and diesel but I want a better touring range while towing so I'm the hunt for a low k tdv6 with service history.
Have seen an ideal car but its above my price range but has only 135k on the clock.
'm planning to put on a rear wheel carrier, and use the space underneath for another fuel tank.
I also have an Army No5 trailer which I can carry additional fuel using jerry cans.

[Disco-tastic]

I have no intentions to do the CSR or go to the Cape, i found 3 HSE's just out of my price range but with lowish k's.
Just need to squeeze the etxra out of the budget or use partial finance.
Id leave some room for some maintenance. I spent a couple of grand replacing worn items in 18 months (doing some of that work myself), and i reckon ive had a good run. That doesnt include a $600 gearbox service (theyre usually about $900) or $500 to free up the EPB when it died. If you need new front LCA bushes and wheel bearings (both things ive done at 165k km), and you cant do it yourself, you're looking at up to $2.5k (cost me about $750 for parts)

The only thing that worried me about higher mileage cars was the gearbox. If its serviced then anything up to 200k km would be ok. (Its about $7k for a gearbox rebuild) Just watch out for the diesels approaching 7 years or 168k km as thats the big $2.5k timing belt service.

Theres also some later d3s and early d4s with gearbox stator bushing issues which cause premature failure of the gearbox. You can google VINs to see affected vehicles.

Lots to think about!

[loanrangie]

Id leave some room for some maintenance. I spent a couple of grand replacing worn items in 18 months (doing some of that work myself), and i reckon ive had a good run. That doesnt include a $600 gearbox service (theyre usually about $900) or $500 to free up the EPB when it died. If you need new front LCA bushes and wheel bearings (both things ive done at 165k km), and you cant do it yourself, you're looking at up to $2.5k (cost me about $750 for parts)

The only thing that worried me about higher mileage cars was the gearbox. If its serviced then anything up to 200k km would be ok. (Its about $7k for a gearbox rebuild) Just watch out for the diesels approaching 7 years or 168k km as thats the big $2.5k timing belt service.

Theres also some later d3s and early d4s with gearbox stator bushing issues which cause premature failure of the gearbox. You can google VINs to see affected vehicles.

Lots to think about!

I do all my own work and never had a car in 30 years go to a mechanic, been reading about the auto service fluid and filter change for $600 is a bit rich.
Everything else i can do myself although i'm guessing the timing belts are not diy friendly.

[Tins]

I do all my own work and never had a car in 30 years go to a mechanic, been reading about the auto service fluid and filter change for $600 is a bit rich.
Everything else i can do myself although i'm guessing the timing belts are not diy friendly.

Not 100% sure, but don't the belts require a body lift?

[Disco-tastic]

I do all my own work and never had a car in 30 years go to a mechanic, been reading about the auto service fluid and filter change for $600 is a bit rich.
Everything else i can do myself although i'm guessing the timing belts are not diy friendly.
I got told the next service would be 900 bucks as its a pain of a job removing the sump with the cross member in the way.

For my 600 i also got a new steel pan :)

[Disco-tastic]

Not 100% sure, but don't the belts require a body lift?
Thats the "easy" way to do it, though it is possible with body on, you just need 3 arms and x ray vision to see what you're doing, or so I've heard [emoji14]

[veebs]

those arms being the length of a grown adult, but thin as a 4 year old, with the strength of a gorilla...

[shanegtr]

I do all my own work and never had a car in 30 years go to a mechanic, been reading about the auto service fluid and filter change for $600 is a bit rich.
Everything else i can do myself although i'm guessing the timing belts are not diy friendly.
If you've done all your own work for the past 30 years then the timing belt shouldnt raise to many issues for you. The main front timing belt isnt to hard, its the HP fuel pump that's fiddly - but its doable. I took 2 days to do both but I also done the oil pump housing and half the time was spent trying to get the starter out to lock the motor. Bloody thing only comes out one way[thumbsupbig]

[Arapiles]

Both cars I've been looking at (a D3 and a D4) have triple sun-roofs - one dealer said I couldn't take that car off-road because the sun-roofs would shatter due to body flex. I've searched on this site, and googled generally, and I can't see much discussion of that happening. And, given that the D3 and D4 are both monocoque, I wouldn't've thought that there would be much flex anyway - they're not Unimogs, where the ladder frame chassis is (supposedly) designed to twist.

[Tins]

Both cars I've been looking at (a D3 and a D4) have triple sun-roofs - one dealer said I couldn't take that car off-road because the sun-roofs would shatter due to body flex. I've searched on this site, and googled generally, and I can't see much discussion of that happening. And, given that the D3 and D4 are both monocoque, I wouldn't've thought that there would be much flex anyway - they're not Unimogs, where the ladder frame chassis is (supposedly) designed to twist.

Was he trying to sell you a different car, one he'd had longer? Only reason I can think of for him saying something like that. LRs have had sunroofs foe decades. D1 and 2 often had two of them.

Given the car's oft stated purpose as an off roader, if sunroofs were shattering LR would have been inundated with warranty claims, IMO.

[The Mighty Range Rover]

Both cars I've been looking at (a D3 and a D4) have triple sun-roofs - one dealer said I couldn't take that car off-road because the sun-roofs would shatter due to body flex. I've searched on this site, and googled generally, and I can't see much discussion of that happening. And, given that the D3 and D4 are both monocoque, I wouldn't've thought that there would be much flex anyway - they're not Unimogs, where the ladder frame chassis is (supposedly) designed to twist.

What a load of rubbish he has told you. This video is pretty good in explaining why.

Snowy's Discovery 3 axle-twister @ Eastwell Manor by '4x4 Solutions' - YouTube (https://youtu.be/UDqVFkW7GIA)

One of the reasons these things are so heavy is they effectively have two chassis, for huge strength. Like he says in the video, the whole roof could be made of glass and it wouldn't break.

[Russrobe]

By comparison I tried to open the boot on our Forester whilst on a sand dune once and it wouldn't open due to body flex. A Discovery is nothing like that.

[Tins]

By comparison I tried to open the boot on our Forester whilst on a sand dune once and it wouldn't open due to body flex. A Discovery is nothing like that.

The 5 might be..

[cripesamighty]

I remember Gordon mentioning at the GOE seminar I attended that the D3/4 chassis was VERY strong. One of the few cars that could be jacked at one corner up to change a tyre, and all 4 doors and rear tailgate could open and close without effort due to the structural rigidity of the car. That's pretty much unheard of in any other vehicle in its class. Check out "LR3 the big lift" on YouTube when you get bored for another demo of its strength. Me thinks that mechanic was either telling porkies, or just plain ignorant.

[Arapiles]

I remember Gordon mentioning at the GOE seminar I attended that the D3/4 chassis was VERY strong. One of the few cars that could be jacked at one corner up to change a tyre, and all 4 doors and rear tailgate could open and close without effort due to the structural rigidity of the car. That's pretty much unheard of in any other vehicle in its class. Check out "LR3 the big lift" on YouTube when you get bored for another demo of its strength. Me thinks that mechanic was either telling porkies, or just plain ignorant.

Well, he was a salesman and I think that he was probably trying to be helpful. But yes, I wouldn't expect there to be any body twisting going on. Thanks all.

[BobD]

Regarding fuel consumption on the petrols, don't rule out the fantastic D3 V8 petrol. On a country run ours gets less than 12l/100km, which is better than my heavy and modified D4 3l diesel. We did a run to Capel and back yesterday with me in our Disco Sport and my son in his D3 V8. The V8 used 52l for 445km and the DS used 31l for the same distance. My D4 would take around 55 to 60 litres on the same run. The D3 trip computer said 11.5 and the DS said 6.6, both of which are not too far off the mark. The D3 computer is much more optimistic and less accurate around town though.

The D3 V8 is by far the quietest and most refined car I have ever driven and for a 2006 built car that is pretty amazing. The D4 diesel is noisy in comparison even though it is also a very quiet and refined car on its own. We paid $14,000 for the D3. We just gave the transmission its second service with a full flush and the shop said it was all perfect at 220,000 km.

[jazzopuk]

My 2 pence worth,
I bought an MY09 tdv6 SE with 120km and fsh last month for $28000. I was weighing up between a D3 and a D4 however being a traditionalist, I could not get past the D4 facelift with the less than landrover esque headlights, and to be honest everything that has been produced since the d3, is distinctively Victoria Beckham.
So I bought the D3, the only negatives I have, is the lack of Bluetooth, the rest of the experience has been excellent. 9l/100km around town and 7.8 on a run, fantastic driving position, smooth, quiet, 7 seats, pulls 3.5 ton, and exceptional off-road.
I have just done the transmission fluid, and about to do the timing belt.
I highly recommend the D3, for me it is a labour of love, and well worth waiting for...

[Tins]

and to be honest everything that has been produced since the d3, is distinctively Victoria Beckham.


A Top Gear man, I see... Although Wayne Rooney gets my vote.

[jazzopuk]

A Top Gear man, I see... Although Wayne Rooney gets my vote.

"Usually, a Range Rover would be beaten away from the lights by a diesel powered wheelbarrow."

[jazzopuk]

"Usually, a Range Rover would be beaten away from the lights by a diesel powered wheelbarrow."

On the discovery 5 Quote
"And a better-looking alternative to the standard Discovery, which, as we know, is mostly driven by murderers."

[Tins]

On the discovery 5 Quote
"And a better-looking alternative to the standard Discovery, which, as we know, is mostly driven by murderers."

Jeremy does have a way with words, doesn't he?

[BobD]

Interesting that the D4 camera and back up cars always accompanied them on their "challenges" and off road tests all over the world, despite being driven by murderers. I haven't seen the new show though.

[Tins]

Interesting that the D4 camera and back up cars always accompanied them on their "challenges" and off road tests all over the world, despite being driven by murderers. I haven't seen the new show though.

Mostly they were Range Rovers, at least in the European shoots. I know D4s figured as well.

The new show? One series in, I'd have to say that they actually needed the constraints placed upon them by the BBC. It seemed to me that 1, they were trying very hard to be Top Gear without actually being Top Gear, and 2, they allowed the schoolboy 'humour' and crudity to take too much of a part in the show. There are segments, such as "celebrity brain crash" that might have worked once, but as a running gag fell spectacularly flat. On the whole, I liked it. I was an unabashed TG fan, and I was looking forward to it. Strangely, though, I can go back and look at old episodes of TG and have a laugh. That doesn't seem to apply anymore. I don't know if that means I've matured, or if they haven't.

I look forward to the next series, to see if they have adjusted.

I might add, I was reading James May's unassuming humour in publications like CAR 30 years ago. His prose is still worth a look, if TGT folds. I read JC in the Sunday Times as often as it comes out, and wish I could write like that. Not sure where Hammond came from, but I know he can't write.

[Arapiles]

Question ... there's a diesel D3 I've seen with about 100,000 kms that has a service history - but in the later years the services haven't been annual (up to 18 months between services) and weren't by a Land Rover dealer or specialist, and that's when it also seems to have been used the most (up to 26,000kms between services). Trouble?

[loanrangie]

If it presents and drives OK then I don't see any issue , what year is it ?

[Arapiles]

If it presents and drives OK then I don't see any issue , what year is it ?

It's a 2007, but it's in Brisbane and I'm in Melbourne .... in any case there are a couple of low k D3 petrols in Melbourne, which are up to $7000 cheaper, which adds up to a lot of fuel.

[loanrangie]

It's a 2007, but it's in Brisbane and I'm in Melbourne .... in any case there are a couple of low k D3 petrols in Melbourne, which are up to $7000 cheaper, which adds up to a lot of fuel.

Yeah, one for $12500 which is a bargain.

[veebs]

Yeah, one for $12500 which is a bargain.

If its the one i'm looking at, bear in mind it is on coils - personally I think the EAS/TR is one of the best parts of these cars!

[DiscoJeffster]

If its the one i'm looking at, bear in mind it is on coils - personally I think the EAS/TR is one of the best parts of these cars!

Yep. Totally. It empowers you in so many situations but does come with it's maintenance later in life.

[Russrobe]

Couple here to look at, this one has the bull bar already and dual batteries. Also mentions just having the major service with timing belt, oil pump etc. Only thing to watch on this one would be the transmission.

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Discovery-3-2008/SSE-AD-4788190/?Cr=2)



The other one is a V8 and a very nice one at that. I had one nearly identical to this. Notice the extra screen in the centre of the dash, I found this useful on mine.

I'd be focusing on either a HSE or optioned up SE.

The captains chairs are nice, they're really comfy on long drives! One of the HSE bonuses.

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Discovery-3-2005/SSE-AD-4410021/?Cr=3)

This ones below is nice too, bit high on kms for a petrol but a few extras noted, looks like it has the rear lockers in the description as well as sun roof and alpine windows. They give the cabin a really spacious feeling.

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Discovery-3-2005/SSE-AD-4273337/?Cr=4)


Here's an extremely cheap D4! $22k is unheard of. Even if you had to spend the $6k rebuilding the transmission, it would still be cheap. Timing belt will need to have been done.

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Discovery-4-2009/SSE-AD-4680388/?Cr=0)

[veebs]

The captains chairs are nice, they're really comfy on long drives! One of the HSE bonuses.


Did you notice a big difference between the captain chairs of the V8 D3 and the 'standard' chairs of the D4? (or do you have the captains in your beast?)

[Russrobe]

Did you notice a big difference between the captain chairs of the V8 D3 and the 'standard' chairs of the D4? (or do you have the captains in your beast?)
Don't have them in the D4 Veebs=( main things i missed from the D3 are the seats and sunroof.
I just really liked the arm rests!
IMO the leather in the D4 is better, so you kind of break even...

[veebs]

Don't have them in the D4 Veebs=( main things i missed from the D3 are the seats and sunroof.
I just really liked the arm rests!
IMO the leather in the D4 is better, so you kind of break even...

I could do with a little more seat pan length in mine, but it is hardly a poor mans ride as it is! I'd have paid extra NOT to have the sunroof - i need the height!

[loanrangie]

There is not much choice in Vic at the moment for TDV6's, seem to be better deals in other states.
2 i like one being a HSE at 29.5k and an SE with bar, sill protectors, roof rack for 31k, both less than 150k on clock but i will need to add about 10k of finance into the deal plus transfer/stamp duty.
Or another SE in Darwin for 24750 but it would be a long road trip to drive back.

[veebs]

Or, if you're up for a road trip...

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Discovery-3-2005/SSE-AD-4738341/?Cr=2)

or if you prefer home delivery:

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Discovery-3-2005/SSE-AD-4705021/?Cr=6)

[Arapiles]

Scarcely seems believable .....

2006 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 3 SE For Sale $44,999 Automatic Suv | CarsGuide (https://www.carsguide.com.au/cars-for-sale/D_5376720/LAND+ROVER--DISCOVERY+3--SA+-+Adelaide--SALISBURY+5108,+SA--SUV'searchKey=cg_s.b5aab70f2cdcabb2f8d06e0879ec8be a#pos0)

I wonder if that's on a new engine?

I'd be interested except that it's only a 5 seater.

[loanrangie]

Scarcely seems believable .....

2006 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 3 SE For Sale $44,999 Automatic Suv | CarsGuide (https://www.carsguide.com.au/cars-for-sale/D_5376720/LAND+ROVER--DISCOVERY+3--SA+-+Adelaide--SALISBURY+5108,+SA--SUV'searchKey=cg_s.b5aab70f2cdcabb2f8d06e0879ec8be a#pos0)

I wonder if that's on a new engine?

I'd be interested except that it's only a 5 seater.

For 45k you will get a nice TDV6 D4.

[cripesamighty]

I'm inclined to agree with you!!

[Arapiles]

Agreed, $45k is too much for a car that may actually have problems because it hasn't been used - you'd probably need to replace all of the fluids in the car, and the tyres could easily have perished even if the tread depth is OK.

[letherm]

Agreed, $45k is too much for a car that may actually have problems because it hasn't been used - you'd probably need to replace all of the fluids in the car, and the tyres could easily have perished even if the tread depth is OK.

Totally agree.
Talk about being used by an old lady to go to church on Sunday.:eek2::eek2: I thought I was low on kilometres traveled. [smilebigeye]

Jokes aside, at the very least you would need to make sure that the time critical things have been done. I was told by the service manager where I bought my car that even if you don't hit the kilometres for service points there are items that have to be replaced on a time basis.

Could be ok I suppose but caveat emptor.

Martin

[veebs]

Scarcely seems believable .....

2006 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY 3 SE For Sale $44,999 Automatic Suv | CarsGuide (https://www.carsguide.com.au/cars-for-sale/D_5376720/LAND+ROVER--DISCOVERY+3--SA+-+Adelaide--SALISBURY+5108,+SA--SUV'searchKey=cg_s.b5aab70f2cdcabb2f8d06e0879ec8be a#pos0)

I wonder if that's on a new engine?

I'd be interested except that it's only a 5 seater.

Is it a 5 Seater? Didn't think the SE models were available in 5 seats, and it's hard to tell, but I think I see seat belts in the back? Also, I thought 5 seat models were 60/40 split in the second row, which this doesn't look to be.

Still agree with other comments - expensive, and likely to have issues from non-use.

[DI5CO]

Don't let it scare you too much. I bought a D2 about 9 yrs ago (sold it last year) and it had done maybe a few thousand k's in a couple of years and it never let me down in the 8 yrs I had it except for a faulty fuel pump locally.
I got it fully checked over, we thought there was an issue with the trans case which never eventuated, and I changed all the fluids and had it serviced. It was a great car and sold it still reliable.
Dave.

[Arapiles]

Is it a 5 Seater? Didn't think the SE models were available in 5 seats, and it's hard to tell, but I think I see seat belts in the back? Also, I thought 5 seat models were 60/40 split in the second row, which this doesn't look to be.

When I rang them I asked about that, so they checked and it is in fact a 7 seater. No rear aircon or C pillar vents though.

Story is that it was a demonstrator - which may be most of the mileage - which was bought as a present but the recipient thought that it was too large to drive, so it basically sat in the garage for 10 years.

[TerryO]

Both cars I've been looking at (a D3 and a D4) have triple sun-roofs - one dealer said I couldn't take that car off-road because the sun-roofs would shatter due to body flex. I've searched on this site, and googled generally, and I can't see much discussion of that happening. And, given that the D3 and D4 are both monocoque, I wouldn't've thought that there would be much flex anyway - they're not Unimogs, where the ladder frame chassis is (supposedly) designed to twist.

D3's and 4's do flex, not as much as other 4x4's admittedly, but they do flex. Is it common for the moon roof to crack? I have so far only heard of one and that was mine and it cracked during a weekend away doing some reasonably serious tracks. For normal every day driving and 4x4 off roading I wouldn't be worried about it cracking, its not common. As others have said the D3 and D4 have both a monocoque body and full chassis bolted together, they are incredibly strong but they do flex.

As for a earlier comment about V8's only being made up to 2007 that is not correct, you could buy V8 D3's right up the D4 being introduced.

If I was in the market for another D3 then it would be a V8 HSE, one hell of a lot of vehicle for the money and with virtually no ongoing expensive maintenance costs compared to the 2.7, apart from the shared auto costs.

If you plan to keep the Disco you buy long term then don't worry about fuel bills when it comes to petrol versions, fuel in one of these vehicles is one of the lowest on going cost factors as these vehicles get older.

If I was determined to buy a diesel then it would be a early 2.7 D4, again maintenance bills is the main reason. By 2009/10 they had the 2.7's longevity greatly improved over the earlier diesel models.

To the OP good luck on what ever you buy, as others have said try and look for one with a good service history and that hasn't been bashed off road to much.

[mcwazza]

So before buying D3 with roughly 120k to 180k kms how would you settle yourself that the risk of major common problems is low?

There are a couple of examples in this thread of big expenses after buying.

From what I can tell, the two common issues are transmission and EBP. What are the othe majors?

How can you de-risk these - just find out that either have been serviced? Or just assume that an issue like this is going to come up?

[loanrangie]

So before buying D3 with roughly 120k to 180k kms how would you settle yourself that the risk of major common problems is low?

There are a couple of examples in this thread of big expenses after buying.

From what I can tell, the two common issues are transmission and EBP. What are the othe majors?

How can you de-risk these - just find out that either have been serviced? Or just assume that an issue like this is going to come up?

Records of the timing belt/ fuel pump belt and oil pump being replaced and the auto trans sump pan and fluid change.
As i'm also looking at D3's and something that has come up in regards to the trans pan is if the car has still got a plastic pan, does this mean it hasnt been serviced or just that the disposable plastic pan and been replaced with the same ?

[mcwazza]

Also... I'm looking for/ happy with petrol

[Ean Austral]

Records of the timing belt/ fuel pump belt and oil pump being replaced and the auto trans sump pan and fluid change.
As i'm also looking at D3's and something that has come up in regards to the trans pan is if the car has still got a plastic pan, does this mean it hasnt been serviced or just that the disposable plastic pan and been replaced with the same ?

Im guessing you would have to take the persons word for it. The most expensive part of the oil change is the oil , the steel pan and filter were less than the cost of oil so I guess if you plan on keeping the car then for the cost of only buying the filter and gasket (plus oil ) compared to buying the complete plastic sump with moulded filter the costs would come out similar. I do know 1 thing , its a lot easier doing the 2nd service with the steel pan.


Come to think of it I don't think you could replace the plastic sump with the same as you need to cut the neck off the filter so you can remove it without pulling the cross member off on the diesel model, if my memory serves me correctly. I think the petrol model could be viable as I think you have to remove a cross member to do the job.

I am happy to be corrected if I have that wrong.


Cheers Ean

[Ean Austral]

So before buying D3 with roughly 120k to 180k kms how would you settle yourself that the risk of major common problems is low?

There are a couple of examples in this thread of big expenses after buying.

From what I can tell, the two common issues are transmission and EBP. What are the othe majors?

How can you de-risk these - just find out that either have been serviced? Or just assume that an issue like this is going to come up?


the other thing that you need to consider is , if the car has had the timing belt done, did the oil pump get changed at the same time for the beefed up version. Its something that seems as tho can have the possibility of failing after a belt change because the timing belt tensioner bolts into the corner of the oil pump housing and the old style housing doesn't cope with the stress placed on it.


Its something I would be looking into if I was purchasing a second hand 2.7 TDV6 D3 .


Cheers Ean

[loanrangie]

[/B]Im guessing you would have to take the persons word for it. The most expensive part of the oil change is the oil , the steel pan and filter were less than the cost of oil so I guess if you plan on keeping the car then for the cost of only buying the filter and gasket (plus oil ) compared to buying the complete plastic sump with moulded filter the costs would come out similar. I do know 1 thing , its a lot easier doing the 2nd service with the steel pan.


Come to think of it I don't think you could replace the plastic sump with the same as you need to cut the neck off the filter so you can remove it without pulling the cross member off on the diesel model, if my memory serves me correctly. I think the petrol model could be viable as I think you have to remove a cross member to do the job.

I am happy to be corrected if I have that wrong.


Cheers Ean

I was reading some posts from 2 years ago and 1 member mentioned that he had the plastic pan replaced with another plastic pan due to lack of availability of the steel pan so wondering if it was done here before the move to the steel pan ? And was the steel pan a LR updated part like the oil pump housing ?

[Ean Austral]

I was reading some posts from 2 years ago and 1 member mentioned that he had the plastic pan replaced with another plastic pan due to lack of availability of the steel pan so wondering if it was done here before the move to the steel pan ? And was the steel pan a LR updated part like the oil pump housing ?

the ZF6hp gearbox is used in many different cars , I bought mine direct from ZF who make the box , along with the oil. From what I gather it was ZF more than LR who chose the steel pan option .

cheers Ean

[Arapiles]

Taking the advice of some of the earlier responses, we're now getting close to buying one of two D4 HSEs with extended warranty. The cars look to be city-based family mobiles but it is probably worth getting someone to check that there's no damage underneath before we drop a lot of money on them. RACV go to the yard to check the cars, but I presume that in the case of Ritter, AMV etc the car would have to be taken to them?

[loanrangie]

Whip your noggin down under and have a look at the bash plates, should stand out like the proverbial if its been offroad.

[Arapiles]

Thanks, yes, that's an option. I'll let you all know how I get on. There is also a very nice D4 V8 available too ....

We've taken a wrong turn (https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Land-Rover-Discovery-4-2011/OAG-AD-14759314/?Cr=1)

[Arapiles]

So, we've now bought a D4 .... 2014 SDV6 HSE in Ipanaema Sand with some choice options and they threw in an extended factory warranty. I'll post photos on the show-us-your-car thread once we pick it up next week.

Thanks all for the input.