injector cleaners.....

[DEFENDERZOOK]

[b]<span style="color:blue">ok....lurch has done over 70,000kms and i want to run some injector
cleaner through the fuel system.....

are there any dos or donts anyone here may have from experience......
there are so many brands to choose from i want to narrow down whats what
before i go and sit there and just stare at the shelf full of cleaners...... 8O


is there any i should stay away from.....?


2003 TD5.....</span>

[cookiesa]

Have a 300Tdi which I use the Flashlube cleaner in. Seems to do the job but a truckie I know still reckons the best way is a shot of premium unleaded every three months. (10% maximum)

[BigT]

Hey Zook
fuel doctor or chemtech injector cleaners are ok.
i give my 300 tdi a dose every 3 or 4 tank, dont know about the unleaded shot sounds like that could be dangarus 8O

[cookiesa]

Apparently Mercedes owners manuals recommend it! (Perhaps there is a Merc owner out there with a diesel who can confirm this.

[Rovernaut]

Originally posted by cookiesa
Have a 300Tdi which I use the Flashlube cleaner in. Seems to do the job but a truckie I know still reckons the best way is a shot of premium unleaded every three months. (10% maximum)

I googled and found this......

TDReprint
MIXING GASOLINE AND DIESEL
(Issue 26, pages 14 – 15)

My wise old mechanic who has worked on Mercedes for years told me that if I put one gallon regular gas to a diesel tankfull after about every four tanks that it would perform essentially the same job as a fuel injector cleaner at a fraction of the cost.

I would like to hear a technical opinion.

Bill Carson , e-mail

Bill, I’ll turn the answer to your request for a technical opinion over to Brian Kmetz. As a mechanical engineer, Brian’s daily task at work is to extract BTUs through oxidation from mass quantities of methane and fuel oils. Needless to say, he knows how the fuel “stuff” works. Brian writes:

We hear this one all the time. Another version is to add one gallon of gasoline to 20 gallons of diesel fuel as a cheap easy anti-gel for winter fuel. I’ll include alcohols in this discussion because a lot of guys add it instead of gasoline. Both fuels have the same detrimental effect on diesel fuel and are very close in weight and BTU content.

The mechanic meant well and probably never saw a fuel pump or injector failure due to improper blending of fuels. But that doesn’t mean one is not risking damage, even in small dosages.

Gasoline and alcohols hit diesel fuel right where it hurts the most. Those light thin fuels will lower the cetane number and lubricity. To explain how octane and cetane DO NOT work together, I’ll have to review more crude oil and fuel fundamentals.

The light distillates that gasolines are made from have a natural high-octane index. The middle distillates that diesel fuels come from have a high cetane index. The octane and cetane indexes are INVERSE scales. A fuel that has a high octane number has a low cetane number, and a high cetane fuel has a low octane number. Anything with a high octane rating will retard diesel fuel’s ability to ignite. That’s why each fuel has developed along with different types of engine designs and fuel delivery systems. Gasoline mixed in diesel fuel will inhibit combustion in a diesel engine and diesel fuel mixed in gasoline will ignite too soon in a gasoline engine.

A lot of old-time mechanics added some gasoline to diesel to supposedly clean the carbon deposits out of the cylinders. I have never read anything that said it worked. Gasoline will make the fuel burn hotter, and hotter burning fuels burn cleaner. That’s probably where the theory got started. In the older diesel engines that belched lots of black smoke even when properly tuned, the result of adding gasoline was probably more white smoke instead of black. This might lead one to believe the engine was running cleaner. Maybe so, probably not. Here’s what happens.

Gasoline will raise the combustion temperature. This might or might not reduce carbon deposits in the cylinder. This also might or might not overheat the injector nozzle enough to cause coking on the nozzle. That’s a clogged injector tip in layman’s terms. The fuel being injected is the only thing that cools the nozzle. Diesel fuel has a lower combustion temperature than gasoline. The fuel injectors depend on the fuel burning at the correct rate and temperature for a long life. If the combustion temperature is raised long enough, the gums and varnishes in gasoline will start to cook right in the fuel injector and turn into carbon. These microscopic carbon particles will abrade the nozzle. High combustion temperatures alone will shorten fuel injector life, gasoline makes the problem worse.

Gasoline and alcohols do have an anti-gel effect on diesel fuel, but these fuels are too thin and will hurt the lubricity. Alcohols work as a water dispersant in small amounts, but also attract water in large amounts. Diesel fuel is already hydrophilic (attracts water) so why add to the problem. The old timers got away with this because high sulfur diesel fuel had enough lubricity to take some thinning. Today’s low sulfur diesel fuels have adequate lubricity, but I wouldn’t put anything in the tank that would thin out the fuel, reduce lubricity, or attract water.

Opposites do not attract in this case. Use any of the diesel fuel additives available to clean out carbon deposits, not gasoline or alcohols.

While we’re on the subject of fuels, let’s discuss another common question. What is cetane?

Cetane is to diesel fuel what octane is to gasoline. It is a measure of the fuel’s ignition quality and performance. Cetane is actually a hydrocarbon chain, its real name is 1-hexadecane. It is written as C16H34, or a chain of 16 carbon atoms with 34 hydrogen atoms attached. All HC chains are also referred to as paraffins. Cetane is a hydrocarbon molecule that ignites very easily under compression, so it was assigned a rating of 100. All the hydrocarbons in diesel fuel are indexed to cetane as to how well they ignite under compression. There is very little actual cetane in diesel fuel.

All the hydrocarbons in diesel fuel have similar ignition characteristics as cetane. Cetane is abbreviated as CN. A very loose way to think about cetane is if the fuel has a CN of 45, then the fuel will ignite 45% as well as 100% cetane. Diesel engines run just fine with a CN between 45 to 50. There is no performance or emission advantage to keep raising the CN past 50. After that point the fuel’s performance hits a plateau.

Diesel at the pump can be found in two CN ranges: 40-46 for regular diesel, and 45-50 for premium. The minimum CN at the pump is supposed to be 45. The legal minimum cetane rating for #1 and #2 diesel is 40. Most diesel fuel leaves the refinery with a CN of around 42. The CN rating depends on the crude oil the fuel was refined from. It varies so much from tanker to tanker that a consistent CN rating is almost impossible. Distilling diesel is a crude process compared with making gasoline. Gasoline is more of a manufactured product with tighter standards so the octane rating is very consistent. But, the CN rating at the diesel pump can be anywhere from 42-46. That’s why there is almost never a sticker on a diesel fuel pump for CN.

Premium diesel has additives to improve CN and lubricity, detergents to clean the fuel injectors and minimize carbon deposits, water dispersant, and other additives depending on geographical and seasonal needs. More biocides added in the south in summer, more ant-gel added in the north in winter. Most retailers who sell premium diesel will have little brochures called POPs (Point of Purchase) at the counter explaining what’s in their fuel. Please don’t ask the poor clerk behind the counter any technical questions after reading this discussion. All they need to know how to do is sell you beer, milk, cigarettes, lottery tickets, and take your money.

Texaco and Amoco are two big names who sell premium diesel in limited markets. Amoco primarily sells its Premier to specialized industrial and agricultural markets. I cannot get either in my area. Most fuel retailers buy additives or buy treated fuel. In the Northern plains states, Koch is a well-known marketer of premium diesel. I buy it when I travel into Northern Wisconsin.

Because there are no legal standards for premium diesel yet, it is very hard to know if you are buying the good stuff. I have good news. An ASTM task force has drafted standards for premium diesel. When the new specifications are accepted, information will have to be posted on the fuel pump. Retailers will no longer be allowed to label cheap blended diesel as ‘premium.’ They will have separate pumps with clear labels on both informing the customer what is being sold. The marketing and labeling will be the same as with regular and premium gasoline. Retailers selling the real thing use this system now. Enforcement of all fuel standards is done at the state level in the USA.

Diesel fuel is an international commodity for industry. Therefore, you should be picky about where you fill up. Shop for price from a large volume retailer so you have the freshest fuel. That’s about the best advice I can give.

The 1994 legislation and reformulation of diesel fuel in North America is due to an international effort for lower emissions. Cleaner diesel emission laws are on the way. Diesel fuel is going to be reformulated into a cleaner fuel in general. Without getting too technical (this is over-simplified and very generalized), diesel fuel for the most part is made up of two different hydrocarbon families: paraffins and aromatics. The paraffins have a naturally high cetane index, burn clean, but cause the annoying gel problem in winter. The aromatics have a naturally high lubricity, low cetane index, and cause a lot of diesel emissions and soot. Reformulated diesel will have a higher paraffin content, higher cetane number, and a much lower aromatic and sulfur content. It will also be more prone to jelling and have a lower lubricity. Big oil is working on improved additives as I type this.

The reason nothing has happened yet is because of infighting in the EPA on its new Tier II Emissions standards for gasoline and diesel. Ultra-clean technology for gasoline and diesel engines is almost ready to go, but the refiners have to lower the sulfur level drastically in both fuels. The EPA should formally set something by year 2000.

Brian Kmetz

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">well.....that was an interesting read......



i wasnt gonna use petrol......ive heard on here that petrol will ruin the
diesel fuel system on this type of engine....it will ruin fuel lines and injectors
and even the pump......


i sure as hell cant afford to experiment....

i was wondering if there was a brand of injector cleaner that has been used on the TD5 engine that i could get some feed back on.....

there are heaps of cleaners in the shops......some good some not so good....
apparently the TD5 is a bit fussier than the 200 and 300 tdi......</span>

[duff]

G'day,
I use the Morey's diesel additive, it does the clean, the lube, the biocide, and the cetane increase,,,,, It sounds a bit like an automative snake oil really.

It is an old and reputable company and it seems to keep my beast doing all the right things.. Mind you it could just be coloured oil for all I know,,, 8O having always used it I have nothing to compare it to.

FROM THEIR WEB SITE(of course they will say its the best thing about :roll: ,, but I just put it up for the details. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ )http://www.moreyoil.co.nz/

MOREY'S® DIESEL SMOKE KILLER
Description:
This outstanding product is designed to reduce diesel smoke, improve fuel injection, provide anti-wear, enhance fuel economy and ensure engine cleanliness and fuel stability. Also contains biocidal properties.

MOREY’S® DIESEL SMOKE KILLER FUEL CONDITIONER is a premium diesel fuel conditioner formulated to improve lubricity, injector cleanliness, power, fuel economy and reduce emissions and smoke.

MOREY’S® DIESEL SMOKE KILLER FUEL CONDITIONER increases cetane up to (5) points
During the combustion process deposits form on pistons, rings and valves reducing the engine’s ability to use fuel efficiently. These deposits cause an uneven and incomplete burn, resulting in sticking rings and accelerated engine wear. MOREY’S® DIESEL SMOKE KILLER removes these deposits returning components to a more efficient condition allowing the engine to function properly.

MOREY’S® DIESEL SMOKE KILLER through its unique combination of temperature stability, tenacity to metal surfaces and low coefficient of friction, forms a film between pistons and cylinder walls, sealing the combustion chamber. Compression is increased, friction reduced and engine efficiency improved.

Features:
Cleans dirty injectors and keeps them clean • Increases horsepower by up to 10% • Improves fuel economy to more than pay for itself • Reduces emissions and smoke • Reduces rust and corrosion • Makes fuel filters last longer • Reduces injector scuffing • Increases fuel system life • Does not raise sulphur or aromatic content • Keeps seals soft and pliable • Fights diesel bug

Most effective under loaded conditions and in engines in a good state of repair.

View the Safety Datasheet relating to this product

View the Technical Information relating to this product


Make an Enquiry

SIDE NOTE.. Have a look at some of the brands bottles, they actually admit the simplicity of alot of these products. They boast "uses jet fuel" cause it sounds cool.
Jet fuel is closely related to diesel, 8) it does in small amounts most the things an additive will . Look up the specs of AVTUR and compare it to diesel. The cetane , the biocide is there. but it runs fairly dry without added lubricant.
You can run your earlier diesels on pure Avtur all day every day, I know of current model hiluxes and couriers that do it for year after year. I wont run the TD5 on it,, they seem very susceptable to fuel system problems.

[adm333]

At some point someone is going to mention Cost Effective Maintenance so it might as well be me.

Several threads have run in the past talking about these products.

www.costeffective.com.au (http://www.costeffective.com.au)

The fuel system / injector cleaner is called CleanPower and is a concentrated additive.

I have used it in my 3.9L V8 with good results.

Obviuosly the TD5 is a different story, so maybe someone here has tried it ???

Dave

[Steinzy]

I have found the Nulon products work fantasticly in my petrol so might be worth a shot to see if they have one for diesel

[rick130]

Redline's diesel fuel treatments (85-Plus, RL 2 and RL 3) have been tested over millions of miles, are US EPA approved, and use an ashless ester (synthetic oil) for increased lubrication of the pump, injectors and upper cylinder. Click here for RL2 PDS (http://www.redlineoil.com.au/Uploads/Downloads/Fleet%20Add%20TR%2002_03.pdf) Click here for 85-Plus PDS (http://www.redlineoil.com.au/Uploads/Downloads/85%20Plus%20TR%2002_03.pdf)
I've been using them for years at a maintenance rate in the Tdi and 4.2 turbo Pootrol, both are now in the 180,000km range and neither has injector or pump issues (touch wood) First application was a bottle in each tank (they were both blowing smoke, the Patrol white stuff on start up and it was running roughly), that was about 60/70,000 km ago in both. They've both been fine since.

BP also have an injector cleaner called Diesel Go which is relatively cheap and it comes from one of the top fuel refiners. ShaunP swears by it, and I'm using it at the moment. (Haven't been to the big smoke to get some RL2)

You can get Redline stuff from Coventry Auto Parts around Sydney.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">thanks...that bp stuff sounds the go...easy to find....


im not having any problems with the TD5....im just trying to prevent them....
i will look into the redline one as well....</span>

[Robbo]

Defender, I am in the same boat as you. My 02 Td5 has done 69000k's and I have tried Nulon. My question would be to anyone giving an answer for a particular product is how and why you know them to be doing anything? :?

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">you dont....thats the catch.....

what you want to do is make sure that nothing wrecks....
with the good quality fuel we have here oz prevention is the best cure....</span>

[dungarover]

I run Nulon injector cleaner through ol' bluey when I bought it recently.

Used Nulon on all my EFI Rangies, works for me is all I can say. I usually run it every 6 months or so and on Aquarangie for the 4 years I had it never had any injector issues, ran smooth and that's good enough for me https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Trav

[rick130]

Here's something to think about regarding fuel system cleaners, petrol or diesel.
Most will show up in a used oil analysis after use. This is due to ring blow by and their corrosive nature. Generally a UOA shows increased lead and tin levels. (guess where this would be coming from)
This is why Caltex Techron, renowned as one of the best all time petrol cleaners has a warning to only use X amount of times between oil changes.

I've yet to see any change in a UOA when using a Redline diesel additive.

[JackH]

My TD5 is up to near 140000kms. I use ChemTech Diesel Power in it. I honestly can't say if it makes a difference in driveablility but if it is working behind the scenes cleaning the fuel system, injectors etc then I'm ok with it.

What I did find making a huge difference was switching to Caltex diesel from BP. The motor is running much smoother and I get better economy.

Didn't someone mention using acetone a while ago in another post?

Jack

[rick130]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>What I did find making a huge difference was switching to Caltex diesel from BP. The motor is running much smoother and I get better economy. [/b][/quote]

now that is interesting, as I've generally found the other way 'round with my 300 Tdi. Perhaps they react or atomise differently with different injector pressures ??
I try to stick to either BP or Shell.

[UncleHo]

G'day All
During the years that I was driving School Buses in my locality (15) my employer used Wynns Diesel Fuel Conditioner over those years I wasn't aware of any adverse affects and we never had an injector failure in the fleet and no gelling in winter, and we had some "Drovers" :roll: most of these motors when due for rebuild (120/140,000 Miles,had no adverse bore or head wear but these were Iron heads. I have used Wynns products in my own vehicles since the 60's (drag racing at Castlereagh,flathead fords) so they are a product that I trust.

This is not a paid commercial https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[one_iota]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">ok....lurch has done over 70,000kms and i want to run some injector
cleaner through the fuel system.....

</span>

<span style="color:red">[b]WHY?</span>

[DEFENDERZOOK]

<span style="color:blue">what do you mean why.....

i dont want him to get an upset stomach......</span>

[sclarke]

another cure for cleaning intercoolers, turbos and carbon is a quick drink of H2O
it cleaned mine out real nice.......
no more crap in the system... little bits of yabby, but no oil.....lol

:roll: :roll: :roll:

supprisingly.... it runs better and turbo spools up quicker...

[DEFENDERZOOK]

Originally posted by sclarke
another cure for cleaning intercoolers, turbos and carbon is a quick drink of H2O
it cleaned mine out real nice.......
no more crap in the system... little bits of yabby, but no oil.....lol

:roll: :roll: :roll:

supprisingly.... it runs better and turbo spools up quicker...



<span style="color:blue">but yours isnt a TD5......</span>

[sclarke]

Yes its not thank god... if it was id be in real stickys...

[fridge1]

Hi all well hasn't this put the cat with the pigeons, the article that Brian Kmetz wrote is technically correct but for the fact that he is in the United States, our cetane number at Mobil refinery is a consistant 52 > 53 leaving the refinery , all the refinerys in Australia run very close specs. ......................Mark

[one_iota]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">what do you mean why.....

i dont want him to get an upset stomach......</span>

In the 100,000kms since someone else serviced my Disco I have never used the substance and wonder if God had meant that diesels should have it it would have been added to the fuel already.

But I don't have shares in Wynns either.

Where is the proof or is it snake oil?

[abaddonxi]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">what do you mean why.....

i dont want him to get an upset stomach......</span>

In the 100,000kms since someone else serviced my Disco I have never used the substance and wonder if God had meant that diesels should have it it would have addled the fuel already.

But I don't have shares in Wynns either.

Where is the proof or is it snake oil?

Don't addle the snakes, they bite.

:twisted:

Simon

[one_iota]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">what do you mean why.....

i dont want him to get an upset stomach......</span>

In the 100,000kms since someone else serviced my Disco I have never used the substance and wonder if God had meant that diesels should have it it would have addled the fuel already.

But I don't have shares in Wynns either.

Where is the proof or is it snake oil?

Don't addle the snakes, they bite.

:twisted:

Simon

And are all adders black :?:

[abaddonxi]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">what do you mean why.....

i dont want him to get an upset stomach......</span>

In the 100,000kms since someone else serviced my Disco I have never used the substance and wonder if God had meant that diesels should have it it would have addled the fuel already.

But I don't have shares in Wynns either.

Where is the proof or is it snake oil?

Don't addle the snakes, they bite.

:twisted:

Simon

And are all adders black :?:

I've got a cunning plan. :twisted:


Cheers
Simon

[one_iota]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">what do you mean why.....

i dont want him to get an upset stomach......</span>

In the 100,000kms since someone else serviced my Disco I have never used the substance and wonder if God had meant that diesels should have it it would have addled the fuel already.

But I don't have shares in Wynns either.

Where is the proof or is it snake oil?

Don't addle the snakes, they bite.

:twisted:

Simon

And are all adders black :?:

I've got a cunning plan. :twisted:


Cheers
Simon

Thank you Baldrick I'll take note of that :roll: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[DEFENDERZOOK]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">what do you mean why.....

i dont want him to get an upset stomach......</span>

In the 100,000kms since someone else serviced my Disco I have never used the substance and wonder if God had meant that diesels should have it it would have been added to the fuel already.

But I don't have shares in Wynns either.

Where is the proof or is it snake oil?


<span style="color:darkred">why do you change your oil.....your engine still runs.......
you dont have to change it every 10,000kms.....it will go longer....

the question is how much longer....?
if you dont change your oil often enough it will sludge up.....
you dont notice any difference till its too late....
or when you see other engines doing 300,000 to 500,000kms and yours dies at 200,000kms....you start to wonder........maybe if i .....



im hoping the same with the fuel systemside of things......
trying to keep the injectors clean right through their life....
and having the engine run properly......
you dont actually notice you have a problem with ijectors till you get them
serviced...then you realize how dirty they actually were.....when you feel the difference....


and i sell shares in snake oil.....(try saying that three times fast....)
want to buy some....?



i suppose the question with preventative maintenance is....
would it have cost less if i waited for it die and just replaced it.....?
rather than spending all this money to prolong the problem.....?




twice half its length.....!!</span>

[DEFENDERZOOK]

[quote=DEFENDERZOOK]<span style="color:blue">what do you mean why.....

i dont want him to get an upset stomach......</span>

In the 100,000kms since someone else serviced my Disco I have never used the substance and wonder if God had meant that diesels should have it it would have addled the fuel already.

But I don't have shares in Wynns either.

Where is the proof or is it snake oil?

Don't addle the snakes, they bite.

:twisted:

Simon

And are all adders black :?:

I've got a cunning plan. :twisted:


Cheers
Simon

Thank you Baldrick I'll take note of that :roll: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/




<span style="color:green">talking in code again......?</span>

[rick130]

courtesy of BP Australia
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>All diesel injector systems build up deposits, the rate depends on injector design, engine design, operating conditions, maintenance etc. Excessive levels of these deposits cause injector clogging which change the shape and nature of the spray pattern. Instead of a fine mist it becomes larger droplets, which are harder to ignite and do not burn completely.
Fuel is wasted and power drops because the full energy value is not being used. Economy suffers and there is an increase in noise, smoke levels and engine soot.[/b][/quote]

[one_iota]

Whoa

hang on guys.

I have not used the substances for 100,000 km and there is no difference in power, fuel consumption or emission of black smoke.

Why should I worry?

The injectors will eventually wear out regardless.

Where is the science?

Tony take a visit to the video store and hire some Blackadder tapes/dvd's and have a laugh :wink:

[abaddonxi]

Excuse me for the stupid question, but can't you just take injectors out and clean them?

Of course not, I'm sure.

:oops:

Cheers
Simon

[one_iota]

Originally posted by rick130
courtesy of BP Australia
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>All diesel injector systems build up deposits, the rate depends on injector design, engine design, operating conditions, maintenance etc. Excessive levels of these deposits cause injector clogging which change the shape and nature of the spray pattern. Instead of a fine mist it becomes larger droplets, which are harder to ignite and do not burn completely.
Fuel is wasted and power drops because the full energy value is not being used. Economy suffers and there is an increase in noise, smoke levels and engine soot.[/b][/quote]

There is a s h it e load of variables there. I am particularly suspicious of the use of "etc" used in a long list of factors.

What does BP recommend or would they be "passing the buck"?

It gets back to Tony's original and sensible question.

What is needed?

[DEFENDERZOOK]

Originally posted by one_iota

Tony take a visit to the video store and hire some Blackadder tapes/dvd's and have a laugh :wink:



<span style="color:blue">
<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">BALDRICK....!!!!!!!!</span>


it all makes sense once again.....
how long since thats been on the telly.....
it used to be on on thursday nights......</span>

[one_iota]

Originally posted by abaddonxi
Excuse me for the stupid question, but can't you just take injectors out and clean them?

Of course not, I'm sure.

:oops:

Cheers
Simon

I have read that 300Tdi injectors are not serviceable.

[one_iota]

[quote=one_iota]
Tony take a visit to the video store and hire some Blackadder tapes/dvd's and have a laugh :wink:



<span style="color:blue">
<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%">BALDRICK....!!!!!!!!</span>


it all makes sense once again.....
how long since thats been on the telly.....
it used to be on on thursday nights......</span>

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[rick130]

Mahn,
I used the cleaner in both our vehicles as they exhibited symptoms and the cleaner resolved the issues. I continue to use the Redline 'treatment' at a maintenance rate, mainly for injector/pump lubrication, as it includes an excellent lubricant, and the lubrication qualities of diesel took a hammering when the sulphur was removed. Contrary to popular opinion, it isn't the sulphur that lubricated the pump, etc, but rather certain aromatic components of the fuel that are lost in the sulphur removal process.

I think you'll find a Td5 far less likely to build up deposits due to the much higher injector pressures involved, much like my Tdi is far less prone to it compared to SWMBO'S indirect injected Patrol.

Yes, I can see your point, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, as that was my attitude for a number of years, until I had a problem. :wink:

[MickG]

Originally posted by duff
G'day,
I use the Morey's diesel additive, it does the clean, the lube, the biocide, and the cetane increase.

Just stuck some of this in my '99 Disco TD5 last week before a weekend of off roading and it had an immediate impact or performance and smoke emision. Engine seems to be running much smoother as well so very happy indeed with Morey's.
Had used Flash lube before, but didn't notice too much difference.

Aye, Mick

[bigmac]

Hi all
I have been using Morey's Fuel Conditioner in my 94 Disco Tdi for
about 2 years now put the recomended amount in every tank full,
change the oil every 5000 kms and the filters every 10000.
It gives a puff of smoke at start up and thats the only time i have
seen smoke from it.
The fuel consumtion went from 10 lts per 100ks to around 9 lts
and thats around town or on a trip. the best I have got is 8.5lts
on a trip from Mackay to Bris

---------------------------------------
Series 11a
Disco 1
Disco 11
Not greedy just love em
bigmac

[mudlark]

Greetings All

I have tried just about every form of cleaner, additive and diesel conditioner in my 2001 TD5 Disco over the last 4 years and most were a waste of time and money. That said, I tried SuperX Diesel conditioner before Xmas and the improvement in the way the engine runs has been quite dramatic.

The first dose was the full 330mm bottle to a full tank, 150 for the next and then only 50-60mm per tank keeps it purring like a big cat. It didn't seem to like it for the first 300 clicks but after that less vibration, significantly less noise, terrific exhaust note and improved torque. I found it best to buy the 1 litre bottle as it is better value.

The best improvement has been in the niggling vibration between 2000 & 2400 rpm. Almost totally gone.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Mudlark

Bonnie Disco
UK Chipped, Big I/Cooler, Lifted and Poly Air Cushioned
Hoping Santa brings me 3" Vortex system next Christmas :twisted:

[MickG]

Originally posted by mudlark
The first dose was the full 330mm bottle to a full tank, 150 for the next and then only 50-60mm per tank. I found it best to buy the 1 litre bottle as it is better value.

There's a point, bought 1lt of Moreys and added the req amount for a single tank but I can't see anywhere on the bottle suggesting how regularly I should add it....any suggestions?

'99 TD5 disco with 130,000ks

Aye, Mick

[Slunnie]

Why dont you stick a load of Biodiesel through it.

[duff]

Originally posted by MickG+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MickG)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-mudlark
The first dose was the full 330mm bottle to a full tank, 150 for the next and then only 50-60mm per tank. I found it best to buy the 1 litre bottle as it is better value.

There's a point, bought 1lt of Moreys and added the req amount for a single tank but I can't see anywhere on the bottle suggesting how regularly I should add it....any suggestions?

'99 TD5 disco with 130,000ks

Aye, Mick[/b][/quote]

For the Moreys 1lt bottle, there is a red graduation down the side. It says that each graduation is for 50lts of fuel,,
So for the Series II disco, two graduations is good.(as in every tank full of diesel I put in two graduations)
It explains that one litre will treat 650lts of diesel. so just divide this by ten and use it as a guide. I guess even every third tank would be better than never.

[tombraider]

Originally posted by Slunnie
Why dont you stick a load of Biodiesel through it.

Because LR specifically told me its not good for the engine Slunnie https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

High pressure injected 4wd owners here are commenting that the biodiesel is causing issues and are changing back to std dino diesel.

Biodiesel can affect hoses, seals etc... And lubricity.

We used to sell a lot of replacement seals for vehicles that changed to biodiesel.

I'd recommend staying with dino oil :wink:

Cheers
Mike

[tombraider]

Originally posted by one_iota
Whoa

hang on guys.

I have not used the substances for 100,000 km and there is no difference in power, fuel consumption or emission of black smoke.

Why should I worry?

Gradual decreases in performance arent always noticeable to the driver though.
Increased fuel consumtion yes, but that still has variation depending on temp, terrain etc....
Think of it like shock absorbers, after 40,000 they're worn, yet many go further, as the degradation is slow over time and we dont really notice (until we replace them and see the improvement)
Fuel systems are the same.

I use Chemtech or Moreys and the engine is smoother with less smoke withing a few (app. 50) kilometers.

It gets dosed every 2-3 tankfulls.

It also helps prevent algae, a well known diesel issue.

"A pound of prevention is worth 2 pounds of cure"

Cheers
Mike

[CraigE]

Yep, I have just started using the Moreys diesel additive after my father in law had his Hilux just about stop. Appears it was a algae issue, 3 fuel filters, in line strainers cleaned, a tank of diesel and some additive later the hilux is back on the road. Not nice, plenty of slimey scum in the filter.
Maybe there is a suitable additive that could be put in biodiesel?

[MickG]

Originally posted by duff+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(duff)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by MickG@
<!--QuoteBegin-mudlark
The first dose was the full 330mm bottle to a full tank, 150 for the next and then only 50-60mm per tank. I found it best to buy the 1 litre bottle as it is better value.

There's a point, bought 1lt of Moreys and added the req amount for a single tank but I can't see anywhere on the bottle suggesting how regularly I should add it....any suggestions?

'99 TD5 disco with 130,000ks

Aye, Mick

For the Moreys 1lt bottle, there is a red graduation down the side. It says that each graduation is for 50lts of fuel,,
So for the Series II disco, two graduations is good.(as in every tank full of diesel I put in two graduations)
It explains that one litre will treat 650lts of diesel. so just divide this by ten and use it as a guide. I guess even every third tank would be better than never.[/b][/quote]

Yeah I stuck in 2 of the graduations in my tank, so you add it in every tank?

Aye, Mick

[Dutchy65]

Mick - "Aye"?? Ex-Pusser??

Dutchy (ex-pusser)

[PSi]

I've been wary of diesel additives since about 3 years ago, when I decided a simple pour-in clean-up sounded like a good idea.
After asking around a bit among some long-time diesel users, I tried an additive that they all swore worked wonders.
It must actually have worked in removing gunk along the fuel line from tank to pump because my truck (Ford Ranger 2.5l turbodiesel) suddenly more powerful and responsive ... for all of two days. Then, it became totally anaemic and gutless. Even a 20-y.o. Datsun 120Y could pull away from me.
The cause - all the dislodged gunk had to go somewhere, so they got pushed towards the engine end. After all, fuel travels in that direction.
At the time, I didn't know the Ford/Mazda diesel had an extra filter, a thimble-sized and -shaped metal net thingie just where the fuel line enters the injector pump. This was clogged up by gunk, starving the pump.
After cleaning this filter out, things were back to normal.
At least the stuff did not reach the high-pressure pump or injectors.

[rick130]

<snip>
At the time, I didn't know the Ford/Mazda diesel had an extra filter, a thimble-sized and -shaped metal net thingie just where the fuel line enters the injector pump. This was clogged up by gunk, starving the pump.
After cleaning this filter out, things were back to normal.
At least the stuff did not reach the high-pressure pump or injectors.

Patrol TD42T's have the same arrangement, ask any Nissan service mechanic, they block up all the time, and it isn't just from using injector cleaners.
What intrigues me is how the crap gets past a 7 micron nominal filter yet blocks up a relatively coarse gauze thimble filter ?

[PSi]

Interesting point ... all that crap couldn't have come from just that short tract from diesel filter to the pump, right?
Either that or 'nominal' means just that.

[windsock]

I use the same Morey's product as noted by a couple of folk previously on this thread. I run a Nissan normally aspirated indirect injection LD28 in a 110 flat deck truck.

With any product that touts an increase in Cetane number, be aware of something I notice in my truck (results in your vehicle may/will differ). There is a noticable increase in power and smoothness of running (as noted by others) but with this is also an increase by up to 100 degrees Celcius of exhaust gas temperatures (without Moreys crusing - 450-*550C; with Moreys crusing - 500-*650C) just on normal running about (VDO EGT monitor - probe 180mm downstream of cyl 4, 5, & 6).

EGTs also get hotter quicker.

This has caused concern for me a couple of times in the rough stuff using loud pedal heavily where I see the temperatures increase towards the higher end of 600-700 degrees very much quicker than when I don't run it - I still use it but not at the recommended levels (recommended - 100ml per 65 litres of fuel, whereas I run it at 60mls per 65 litres of fuel). In NZ the minimum cetane number is 45 and assuming that the fuel companies adhere to this minimum rather than any higher then the increase of up to 5 cetane numbers given by the Moreys product the is more that welcomed but beware of adverse effects downstream - higher EGTs.

* higher EGTs related to driving into a head wind :lol2::lol2::lol2: :angel:

[rick130]

Interesting, I haven't noticed any hard and fast correlation between using Redline RL2 and EGT's, but I only ever use a maintenance dose of a couple of ounces or so per tank (approx 60-65 litres)

[windsock]

Interesting, I haven't noticed any hard and fast correlation between using Redline RL2 and EGT's, but I only ever use a maintenance dose of a couple of ounces or so per tank (approx 60-65 litres)

Hi Rick130,

Your post was interesting, thank you. I wonder sometimes whether it is the cetane boost (up to 5 points) inducing higher temps or just me imagining it. The more I use it (15 months now every third tankful or as required) the more I notice the impacts and the more I am fine tuning my blend ratio (atm 60ml per 65 litres). You say you don't notice any correlation between RL-2 and higher EGTs. I am not familiar with RL-2 so went online to find out more. It doesn't contain cetane boost material in it, whereas RL-3 ('combustion improver') does. I take it you have an EGT monitoring set up. Would you want to try RL-3 and see if you do notice any increase in EGTs? Again, my engine is not an LR engine but an Indirect Injection N/A Nissan LD28 so it may be the nature of the beast. Also, what is the minimum cetane number of Aust diesel? Any increase in cetane number over about 55 has no effect on ignition apparently and therefore would most likely have neglible impact on EGTs[?] - unsure there.

Are there any combustion/ignition experts out there that can maybe shed some light on this? I am interested in whether it is indeed the increased cetane number doing it or some other 'nameless' ingrediant in Moreys 'smoke killer' injector cleaner.

EDIT: Just did a search on Aust diesel fuel standards - Cetane index a mimimum of 46 specified (http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/standards/diesel/index.html). Cetane index is slightly different from the cetane number but cannot remember how so.

[rick130]

Re cetane of fuels here.
BP, which I mostly use, is around 50, Shell around 48-49 and Caltex 47, but this was from several years ago. There have been major refinery upgrades from both Shell and Caltex since, but whether that translates to better fuels ?

[JamesH]

Has anybody tried this stuff?

Treblex (http://www.treblex.com.au/Product%20htmls/Dynafuel.html)

It was what Kevin Falconbridge (Perth independent LR mechanic) gave me when I said that I noticed a bit more smoke than in the past when under load up a hill, taking off from lights etc. This was just using the imprecise smoke in following headlights at night assessment. My car has done 205K and I figure a clean out of the injectors was due to delay the cost of new ones.

Can't say ive noticed a huge difference in performance/economy but I think smoke is down a bit. The way I see it if my tanks haven't been treated or cleaned since 1996 then I was due to do something along these lines.

I'll perservere with say three doeses over the next 9 tanks and then leave it be.

See pdf details of the product. I don't really know what it all means but you guys will. Looks like it says alcohol and soap to me.