Goingbush's Electric Vehicle project

[101RRS]

I need to put discs on the front of my lightweight to satisfy the engineer due to the power boost from EV conversion.

What is an EV conversion and why do you need disc brakes?

[goingbush]

What is an EV conversion and why do you need disc brakes?

EV= Electric Vehicle, I am putting 45 x 180 Ah LiFePo4 cells and a HPEVS AC51 3 phase motor in it , I don't expect I'll be driving it any faster than I do now, but it has the potential for 3 x the current power @ 10,000 RPM . so the engineer deems disc brakes desirable .

The batteries will occupy the existing fuel tank & under bonnet space , so as to not infringe into load area. Outwardly theres will be no changes except for lack of a tailpipe.

I can easily make my own disc brake set up , no biggie but I thought I'd be helping a bloke out by buying one of his kits, but if its too much trouble I'll do my own. I'm seeing a VASS engineer for the EV conversion anyway so no extra complications to do the brakes.

[grey_ghost]

Purely a guess - Electric Vehicle?

[goingbush]

How soon do you need them? Cookey has supplies of the caliper brackets which fit either front or rear. The disk mods and rotors done for me are the type with large inner and smaller outer bearings. Im not doing that conversion till after the 80" and Defender 6x6 are completed and the MSA box for the Isuzu only arrived this week. So he may make mine available for you.

Thanks, Im not in a hurry, anticipate Rover will be off the road for 3-4 months during conversion, hopefully done for Summer its a '73 Series3 , (pre metric) . hope to use 5" rims if possible , Front only will be fine .
won't need the booster etc as I'll possibly fit a 12v electric booster since I wont have any vacuum.

I can machine and tap my hubs to accept rotors on my mill if that helps .

if email is easier evrover@mailcan.com

[weeds]

EV= Electric Vehicle, I am putting 45 x 180 Ah LiFePo4 cells and a HPEVS AC51 3 phase motor in it , I don't expect I'll be driving it any faster than I do now, but it has the potential for 3 x the current power @ 10,000 RPM . so the engineer deems disc brakes desirable .

The batteries will occupy the existing fuel tank & under bonnet space , so as to not infringe into load area. Outwardly theres will be no changes except for lack of a tailpipe.

I can easily make my own disc brake set up , no biggie but I thought I'd be helping a bloke out by buying one of his kits, but if its too much trouble I'll do my own. I'm seeing a VASS engineer for the EV conversion anyway so no extra complications to do the brakes.

Found your write up on your website...very interesting

I know a guy that has made inquiries about converting a 130 to electric drive but struggled getting replies or info.....

[goingbush]

Found your write up on your website...very interesting

I know a guy that has made inquiries about converting a 130 to electric drive but struggled getting replies or info.....

Absolutely !! Its like banging your head against a bloody brick wall . Trying to deal with the sole Australian agent for HPEVS AC motors is almost impossible , its a common complaint of Australian EV forum , almost to the extent that I was about to become an Eastern States agent for HPEVS just so that I could get a motor.

And as for the batteries..... I can get them for almost 1/3 the price than advertised on the DIY EV price guides, the industry in Australia needs a good kick up the arse.

and thanks for reminding me, I do need to update the website.

[dickyjoe]

Ooh this all sounds interesting! Can you plug your website here so we can take a peek?

[Davo]

Ooh this all sounds interesting! Can you plug your website here so we can take a peek?

Going Bush (http://goingbush.com/ptev.html) [bigsmile1]

[Carnut1100]

Nice project!
ive thought of electrifying a Landie many times...
I'd love an electric D2. Thinking an HPEVS Twin35 running into the LT230 with some rock crawler diff gears.
Tesla modules for around 80-90kwh.

[goingbush]

Nice project!
ive thought of electrifying a Landie many times...
I'd love an electric D2. Thinking an HPEVS Twin35 running into the LT230 with some rock crawler diff gears.
Tesla modules for around 80-90kwh.

The twin35 is an awesome motor, I don't think you would need rock crawler gears though, with max torque at zero RPM (like a steam engine)

Electric motors HP motor rating is worked out very differently than Internal Combustion, the AC51 I'm using in Series 3 is 88HP (way more power than required), but the petrol engine is 82HP , however the electric has way more useful power.

“When the load on a petrol motor increases and rpms drop, torque also falls. For an electric motor torque increases.”

explained here , Electric Motor HP Ratings (and Other Secrets of the Universe) vs Gas | The Electric Chronicles: Power in Flux (https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/electric-motor-hp-ratings-and-other-secrets-of-the-universe/)

[goingbush]

Series 3 gearbox to Electric motor adaptor plate, this will obviously also fit LT77 / Tdi 200 .
Easy enough to make, its just a bit of alloy plate with a few holes drilled in it & some pegs to locate HPEV motor.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/470.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/471.jpg

[goingbush]

Electric Motor shaft to LandRover Flywheel adaptor .
You would not think you could transmit all that power through a 1/4" keyway !!

The HPEVS motor does come with a splined shaft option, but all the EV mob seem to use a keyed shaft !!


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/472.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/473.jpg

[goingbush]

Heres a picture from a USA conversion showing the same CEV adaptor plate (Canadian Electric Vehicles)

but with a 11" DC Kostov motor, 42 HP , my 9" AC motor is 88HP . you can see the DC motors have a vented commutator, probably not all that useful for 4WDing . The HPEV AC motor is sealed but not totally waterproof so wading not advised , however they do have a fully waterproof , oil cooled option.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/474.jpg

[rover-56]

Absolutely !! Its like banging your head against a bloody brick wall . Trying to deal with the sole Australian agent for HPEVS AC motors is almost impossible , its a common complaint of Australian EV forum , almost to the extent that I was about to become an Eastern States agent for HPEVS just so that I could get a motor.

And as for the batteries..... I can get them for almost 1/3 the price than advertised on the DIY EV price guides, the industry in Australia needs a good kick up the arse.

and thanks for reminding me, I do need to update the website.

Geez Don, Where do you get the time and energy???
Terry

[goingbush]

Geez Don, Where do you get the time and energy???
Terry

Time is a rare commodity at the moment, most of my time I'm kept busy making Ivecp parts. Im glad its a niche market or else I would be overwhelmed. At least the Iveco stuff is going to pay for my EV Conversion parts !!

[goingbush]

Since I won't have an internal combustion engine, I wont have any hot water for the Heater , no issue but I need a working demister to comply with 1973 ADR's .

I managed to get these Isuzu 12V ceramic elements . Instant heat . just need to make up some holders & will fit nicely inside my original heater.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/485.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/08/486.jpg

[Lotz-A-Landies]

You could always add a diesel fuel heater like they use in Arctic regions! :firedevil:

Would save on battery power.

What sort of range do you expect and how will you re-charge in the bush? Or is that not a condition?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Heres a picture from a USA conversion showing the same CEV adaptor plate (Canadian Electric Vehicles)

but with a 11" DC Kostov motor, 42 HP , my 9" AC motor is 88HP . you can see the DC motors have a vented commutator, probably not all that useful for 4WDing . The HPEV AC motor is sealed but not totally waterproof so wading not advised , however they do have a fully waterproof , oil cooled option.

<image removed>

Could you pressurise the housing for short periods when wading? You mentioned having an electric compressor for the brakes or did I misunderstand.

[goingbush]

Could you pressurise the housing for short periods when wading? You mentioned having an electric compressor for the brakes or did I misunderstand.

Brakes will either use a Lexus master cylinder which is like an electric hydroboost, so no air, or a 12v vacuum pump to provide vacuum. but good idea , I'll work on that one.

[goingbush]

You could always add a diesel fuel heater like they use in Arctic regions! :firedevil:

Would save on battery power.

What sort of range do you expect and how will you re-charge in the bush? Or is that not a condition?

no issue really, I don't need a heater , per-se , but I must have a working demister , hence the 12v elements, I'll only ever use this to get it certified for road use, or perhaps the one or two frosty mornings a year we have.

besides I want to keep the car completely original, visually at least, until you open the bonnet it will look completely standard, with the exception of one 2" round gauge I need for the EV stuff .

I'll never recharge in the bush, I never drive this more than 80km round trip , usually much shorter 5-10 k daily trips, I expect 150km range , or in low range when aerodynamics don't come into play it should have easy 300km range.

[Stiltz]

This is a future project for me so I would be very interested how you go!

[Carnut1100]

The twin35 is an awesome motor, I don't think you would need rock crawler gears though, with max torque at zero RPM (like a steam engine)

Electric motors HP motor rating is worked out very differently than Internal Combustion, the AC51 I'm using in Series 3 is 88HP (way more power than required), but the petrol engine is 82HP , however the electric has way more useful power.

“When the load on a petrol motor increases and rpms drop, torque also falls. For an electric motor torque increases.”

explained here , Electric Motor HP Ratings (and Other Secrets of the Universe) vs Gas | The Electric Chronicles: Power in Flux (https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2012/04/06/electric-motor-hp-ratings-and-other-secrets-of-the-universe/)

Id be ditching the gearbox, and with the 10,000rpm redline of the AC motor and 5,000rpm constant speed I'd be trying to gear it for 5000 rpm at 110kmh or as close as possible.
i owned a Mitsubishi imiev for 2 years and did 40,000km in it. Electric is fun!

[Stiltz]

There is a new start up in the US that is making an awesome concept!
Bollinger Motors (http://bollingermotors.com)

[Lemo]

I use to work with this guy and watch the development of his EV motor bikes from using an electric forklift motor to the production units, very cool and local Aust ingenuity!!

Think they also do AC motors rewound to operate in EV??

Cheers Lemo

http://www.catavolt.com.au/

[goingbush]

My motor just arrived . only took 2 months from date of deposit.

I see a problem straight away, I'm going the have to make a spacer to move the motor forward, the flywheel adaptor sits too far back.

Will have to wait till I remove engine from Landy so I can measure it up .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/1043.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/1044.jpg

[Tim_AM]

Great thread,

I'm watching with interest!

[goingbush]

Check this out, I was just google searching for how to mount the front of the motor and found a guy put a HPEVS AC31 motor in a Suzuki , quite a bit smaller than my AC51 .

Got some good ideas from him, He has twisted half shafts & TC mounts from the torque.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/1048.jpg




https://youtu.be/yiW9F_kYPlY

[Lotz-A-Landies]

My motor just arrived . only took 2 months from date of deposit.

I see a problem straight away, I'm going the have to make a spacer to move the motor forward, the flywheel adaptor sits too far back.

Will have to wait till I remove engine from Landy so I can measure it up .

<two images removed>
I could be wrong, but to me the bolt pattern on the adapter plate replicates the bolt pattern on the engine block. This would mean that you have to use both the flywheel housing, the gearbox bell housing and the flywheel.

The engine side of the flywheel is recessed to fit the crankshaft flange so you may not have a problem at all. I guess time will tell.

It's a pity you're not up here in Sydney as we have a number of spare housings and flywheels that we could do test fits before you need to remove your old engine.

[goingbush]

Theres a new AC motor just released .

Better specced , and cheaper than my HPEVS AC51 - always the bloody way . I would have waited for this had I known about it . But its that way things go with technology .. At least the AC50/51 has a unblemished reputation for performance and reliability .

Looks fantastic , and don't forget you cant compare Power figures to Internal Combustion engines , this has way more grunt than a Landy engine. Getting HiTuff axles and a Trueurac diff is a given - even for my apparently lower specced motor.

HyPer 9 IS (http://evworks.com.au/hyper-9-is)

[vnx205]

.. ... .... ...
I expect 150km range , or in low range when aerodynamics don't come into play it should have easy 300km range.

Are you sure the range will improve in low range?

I have always found that my range is significantly reduced any time I do much off-road low range driving.

Does it work differently with electric power where gearing and revs aren't involved?

[DiscoMick]

I'm only guessing, but wouldn't running an electric motor slowly drain less battery power than running it faster? Seems to be true with battery-powered tools.

[vnx205]

That's true, but wouldn't the same thing apply to a petrol motor? Wouldn't running it slowly use less petrol than running it fast?
Even in low range, the motor still sometimes works fairly hard, regardless of whether it is electric or internal combustion.

There must be someone with experience of an electric powered vehicle who can tell us what happens and why.

[DiscoMick]

These people would know:

World Solar Challenge 2017 (https://www.worldsolarchallenge.org/dashboard/map)

[goingbush]

Electric motors work significantly differently to Internal Combustion engines. So much so that no comparison can be made on the power figures, the range can easily be doubled or tripled by going slowly , in Low range there is almost zero load on the motor = almost unlimited range, if thats how it translates in the real world we will see. I read a Tesla Model S recently did 1000km on a single charge by driving at 40kmh

Tesla driver breaks 1,000km-single charge long distance EV record - SlashGear (https://www.slashgear.com/tesla-driver-breaks-1000km-single-charge-long-distance-ev-record-06494181/)

[bee utey]

I can't see how low range would help, the main gears would be spinning faster and creating drag. Teslas etc. don't have any gears. You would have to read a full set of efficiency vs revs vs load curves to find a sweet spot that overcame the extra drag.

[goingbush]

I can't see how low range would help, the main gears would be spinning faster and creating drag. Teslas etc. don't have any gears. You would have to read a full set of efficiency vs revs vs load curves to find a sweet spot that overcame the extra drag.

With maximum torque at close to zero RPM , I don't think gear drag will be of any consequence. thats what I see when looking at the graph, but I'm no mathematician. We will soon find out. I just have the Iveco in the shed for more brake work and I'll be getting stuck into the Landy in about a week.

Below is a graph of my motor at my chosen system voltage (144v) you can see that it hardly uses any power at low speed, compared with at 100kmh / 3700 with my 6.50-16 tyres .


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/283.jpg

[vnx205]

That graph is interesting, but I don't know if it includes a variable that I think is important. Is that created with a constant load?

I know that some electrically powered devices benefit greatly from backing off the throttle even just a little bit.

The chart below is for a Torqeedo outboard and shows that if you are prepared to go at about 40% of the speed, the range is over seven times as far and the running time is eighteen times as long. However, part of the benefit comes from the fact that the power required with a displacement hull is a cubic function of the speed. In other words, to go twice as fast, you need eight times as much power.




Speed in knots (km/h)*
Range in sm (km)*
Running time in hours:


Slow
2.0 (3.7)
20.0 (37.0)
10:30


Half throttle
3.0 (5.5)
10.5 (19.4)
03:30


Full throttle
5.0 (9.2)
2.8 (5.2)
00:35



I can understand how a Tesla could increase its range dramatically by slowing down because it would have only a tiny bit of resistance at low speed. So as well as the benefit of lower revs that the graph shows, the motor would need to produce only a tiny amount of power to overcome the drag.

My impression is that low range work includes trickling along with just a touch of throttle but also includes times when the motor has to produce a reasonable amount of power to climb hills or to push through sand or mud, or to clamber over rocks.

So while I accept that electric motors produce maximum torque pretty much at any revs, I don't think a 4WD used for off-roading would benefit as much from slowing down as a Tesla on a smooth road.

However, I might be wrong. :)

Hopefully I won't need to wait too long for you to finish your project and either confirm or refute my theory. :) :)

[goingbush]

I could be wrong, but to me the bolt pattern on the adapter plate replicates the bolt pattern on the engine block. This would mean that you have to use both the flywheel housing, the gearbox bell housing and the flywheel.

The engine side of the flywheel is recessed to fit the crankshaft flange so you may not have a problem at all. I guess time will tell.

It's a pity you're not up here in Sydney as we have a number of spare housings and flywheels that we could do test fits before you need to remove your old engine.


Ive pulled the engine out and see I do have an issue , The face of the Flywheel adaptor is about 15mm too far back.

As I see it here are my options
1/ I need to make a 15mm spacer to sandwich between motor and adaptor plate
2/ Remove a combination of 15mm from motor shaft and Flywheel adaptor .
3/ modify clutch release - a combination of shortening pivot point to move throw out fork reward a few mm and/or make a new thrust bearing holder / get a thinner bearing.

4/ a combination of 2 &3 above .

I wont really even need a functional clutch , I could just install as without throw out mechanism .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/363.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/364.jpg

[goingbush]

I can 'skim' 9mm from the back of the 21.5mm EV flywheel adaptor to bring it to the same thickness as the flywheel flange of the crankshaft .

now I only have to find 6mm , rather than 'trimming' the end of the motor shaft I should be able to get a thinner thrust bearing or mod the bearing holder .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/365.jpg

[JDNSW]

Looking at the graph shown, it is quite clear, by looking at the current curve vs the power curve, that the electric motor efficiency is pretty much independent of motor speed. Which is what I would expect.

This means that the power consumption will depend almost entirely on the resistance to movement of the vehicle and internal drag. The internal drag will be mainly from the bearings, seals, and gears in the transmission (plus at high speeds aerodynamic drag mainly from prop shafts). These will generally be more or less fixed for bearings and seals, but I'm not sure about gears - in the case of gears, I suspect power consumption will depend on the amount of power transmitted, and the number of gears used. (This suggests that gears should only be used where you need more torque than the maximum the motor can provide, and to match maximum speed to maximum power)

The big one though is rolling and aerodynamic resistance to the movement of the vehicle. And hill climbing.

Rolling resistance is the the power turned into heat in the tyres and shock absorbers, and would seem to be proportional to the the speed but also depends on the surface conditions.

Hill climbing will use the same amount of energy regardless of speed, so its power use (power is energy/time) is proportional to speed. And if you have regenerative braking, you get most of it back when you go back downhill!)

So these two factors will not depend, as a first approximation, on the speed of travel.

The big one! Aerodynamic drag, however, depends on the square of the speed. Doubling the speed quadruples the power needed, but you get there in half the time, so the energy used is only double. But this is still the really big factor for realistic highway speeds, no matter how streamlined the vehicle or how small the frontal area. Crawling along offroad at <40k, it will be pretty small, but once above about that speed it becomes the dominant power requirement.

Hope this analysis helps.

[loanrangie]

That's true, but wouldn't the same thing apply to a petrol motor? Wouldn't running it slowly use less petrol than running it fast?
Even in low range, the motor still sometimes works fairly hard, regardless of whether it is electric or internal combustion.

There must be someone with experience of an electric powered vehicle who can tell us what happens and why.
Engine doesn't run slower, just less momentum.

[vnx205]

It's true that just because the vehicle is travelling slowly doesn't mean the engine is turning over slowly.

However, I was envisaging the sort of off-road, low range driving where delicate application of the throttle is all that is needed. In that situation, the revs would be quite a bit less than the revs at normal highway speed.

While the revs aren't necessarily lower in low range, often they would be.

[goingbush]

It's true that just because the vehicle is travelling slowly doesn't mean the engine is turning over slowly.

However, I was envisaging the sort of off-road, low range driving where delicate application of the throttle is all that is needed. In that situation, the revs would be quite a bit less than the revs at normal highway speed.

While the revs aren't necessarily lower in low range, often they would be.


did you see this video, bit of an eye opener

ZookEV Electric Suzuki Samurai at Barrett Lake Trail ep15 - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiW9F_kYPlY)

[goingbush]

Well that worked , I took 6mm off the end of the motor shaft , 7.5 mm off the rear face of flywheel adaptor and bored the shaft hole right through the adaptor, (about 6mm removed)

Now the flywheel sits only 2mm reward of where it lies in the Petrol engine location, I should be able to take that up with clutch adjustment only, ( slave cylinder rod)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/382.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/383.jpg

[goingbush]

some interesting formulae here.

EV-calculations (http://www.ev-propulsion.com/EV-calculations.html)

[vnx205]

One sentence in that article seems to me to confirm my feeling that low range work might not extend the range as much as you would expect.


A 5% grade requires twice the power that is needed on level roads.

[JDNSW]

As I tried to point out, hill climbing will use the same amount of energy regardless of speed. As long as there is enough torque available at the wheels to climb the hill, it will make no difference to the energy used whether you use low range or not. As aklways, the rate of energy consumption is proportional to your speed.

The only advantage of low range in extending range is that it will enable you to travel slower - but once your speed is below about 40k, the advantages diminish rapidly, as below this speed the losses aerodynamic losses become small relative to rolling resistance, and as pointed out above, energy used to overcome rolling resistance is proportional to distance travelled, with speed not a factor.

One point to note, is that if we are talking about a Series Landrover, low range means you are in four wheel drive - which means rolling resistance increases due to the 'locked' centre diff requiring the different distance travelled between front and rear to be accommodated by tyre slip.

[rangieman]

Some interesting simple tech low budget build here that might help a few [bigwhistle]
Electric(EV) Suzuki Samurai on the trail in Dresser WI - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ZOxRJHHQjec)

[Beery]

The rate of battery discharge would be the biggest factor (apart from aerodynamic drag) in extending driving range.
The slower you discharge a battery, the greater apparent capacity it has. i.e. draining a battery in 1hr that gives you 3ah, will give 5ah if drain it over 20hrs.
So yes your range should increase greatly, the slower you drive. Even once you get below a speed where aerodynamics are an issue.

[JDNSW]

I'm not sure how great this effect would be - most of the benefit of lower discharge rate would already have been achieved by the time you got below about 20k - which would not need low range.

[goingbush]

With the impending doom about to settle over Victoria, Aerodynamics wont even be much of an issue . The Andrews government is serious about lowering the speed limit on all unsealed roads to 70kmh .

Well thats doubled my range already !!

[goingbush]

Another problem to be solved.

As it stands the motor wont fit the gearbox.

i bought this LandRover adaptor kit so that I would not have to re-invent the wheel, but I do have to modify that wheel significantly . I wonder how other people get on ?

The front of the gearbox input shaft is 46mm forward of the mating plane of bell housing.
the rear of the motor shaft is 44mm forward of the mating plane .

So I need to execute a delicate operation and chop the front 3mm from the input shaft .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/420.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/421.jpg

[DeanoH]

............................... The Andrews government is serious about lowering the speed limit on all unsealed roads to 70kmh .


Not really, as far as I can tell. The top cop Doug Fryer is doing his 'tilting at windmills' act but was pretty firmly put back in his box by the Roads Minister. [bigsmile1]

No Cookies | Geelong Advertiser (http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/news/geelong/roads-minister-rules-out-blanket-lowering-of-speed-limits-on-rural-roads/news-story/173c7fbe30eb47af2d2519de78da8f45)

Deano :)

[goingbush]

Since my dyslexia precludes me from making and notating measurements I have to try everything to size.
I made a dummy motor to work out the front mounts.

Luckily the Landy has a crank handle hole in the front bumper in the exact centre of where the crankshaft would be .

This dummy motor is in the same dimensions as the actual motor, and is positioned on a conduit shoved onto the gearbox input shaft.

now I can chose the most suitable mounts and make a front plate to suit.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/487.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/488.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/489.jpg

[goingbush]

When I ordered the motor I had a choice of front shaft or no front shaft. I chose front shaft incase I wanted to mount an alternator etc , but i'm using a DC-DC converter instead.

They dont need extra 'cooling' but I'll make a fan to go on the shaft with a dome shaped cover and a 2" pipe spigot so I can run an 'inlet tube'. Then I can pressurise it with filtered air , good for wading and will stop dust getting in it from normal dirt road use.

the exit air comes out vents at the rear of motor.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/490.jpg

[roverrescue]

Suggestion for removing input shaft of gear bag
Engage lowest gear - drill on output thereby rotating input shaft
Then using grinder and 1mm cut wheel should get a nice clean cut

I have done similar on hardened shafts (in lathe) but hand holding grinder and it works well...

Make the cut so shaft is spinning away from grinder direction gives stability, finish with flap disc

Vacuum taped under cut will catch majority of grindings

Steve

[goingbush]

Operation successful, 5mm removed from input shaft with both cut off disc and flapper & formed a small chamfer, the shaft will almost fully engage the spigot and the front of clutch spline clears the flywheel . so all should be well .

I also removed un-nescessary ring gear from flywheel & gave it a bit of a clean up , could not get the clutch dwells out so looks a bit half-arsed.

I considered leaving the ring gear on to use as a tone ring for a hall sensor but I'll grind 3 shallow notches in the flywheel circumference and use a proximity sensor instead of hall sensor (for my cruise control )

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/531.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/532.jpg

[goingbush]

Bit of a problem, when mounted on the motor the flywheel has axis and radial runout 0.2mm , quite unacceptable for a standard Landy at 3500RPM, let alone an electric motor with potential for 10,000RPM ( I'll probably limit it to 5000 RPM in the software )

So I made a jig to remove the clutch dowells and mounted the flywheel on my rotary table and measured runout to be .02mm which is more like it , I gave it a gentle surface with an 80grit flaring cup anyway.

Mounted back on the motor it was .2mm out again - which is way too much.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/583.jpg

Took Flywheel off and found axial runout caused by the flywheel adaptor, It is attached to the motor shaft via a keyway & grubscrews, which to my mind would possibly make it run in a eccentric so T put the complete motor on the lathe & trued up the hub adaptor face .

http://www.goingbush.com/ptev/lathe5.jpg

Now I have .01mm axial runout which is as good as I can expect but still have .2mm radial runout - thats more serious , as in vibrations, but an easy fix.

[roverrescue]

Bush
Just spitballing
Would something like a ZF marine gear with two "gears" and neutral
Have a role in an EV fitout
Would give two gears (and two reverses) and neutral
Less complicated than a clutch and gearbox albeit requiring a hydraulic pump
But surely that could be arranged?

Steve

[bee utey]

Are your motor bearings capable of handling the end load from the clutch being disengaged? What about the keyed drive adaptor? Not sure why you're using a clutch when the motor can go down to zero rpm.

[goingbush]

Bush
Just spitballing
Would something like a ZF marine gear with two "gears" and neutral
Have a role in an EV fitout
Would give two gears (and two reverses) and neutral
Less complicated than a clutch and gearbox albeit requiring a hydraulic pump
But surely that could be arranged?

Steve

Yes but The Electric motor bolted straight onto the transfer case would be fine.
Don't need reverse gear as there is a toggle switch for that .

[goingbush]

Are your motor bearings capable of handling the end load from the clutch being disengaged? What about the keyed drive adaptor? Not sure why you're using a clutch when the motor can go down to zero rpm.

Yes the motor bearings are capable of taking thrust load, the hub adaptor sits flush against a step in the motor shaft .
Im using a clutch because its easier to convert vehicle back to standard down the track.

Here is a link to Canadian Electric Vehicles who made the adaptor, about why they prefer to retain the clutch.
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd. - Adapters (http://www.canev.com/adapters.php) (bottom paragraph)

In practice I don't think I'll even need the clutch to change in and out of low range, I doubt it will get much use , except experimenting with different gears / efficiencies.

[goingbush]

Im scratching my head about everything I need to do to make this kit fit, I can imagine the problems someone will have expecting it to just fit & work !!

The .2mm radial runout I discovered is caused by the incorrect flywheel bolts .

The original Landy Flywheel bolts are 7/16 UNF with a 11.5mm shoulder that fits the flywheel holes, The CEV Flywheel adaptor has 7/16 NC thread - bloody inconvenient . I can not find any NC bolts with a short shoulder . So I got a length of 12mm steel rod from Bunnings , bored a 9.4mm hole & tapped 7/16 NC , cut off short sections , loctited to bolts & machine down to 11.5mm .

Now the flywheel centralises on the new bolt shoulders & runout eliminated.

I can imagine that without these shoulders , back & forward action of on/off throttle with all that torque as well as regen braking would have the flywheel rocking on the bolts in no time .

Also trim the top of the bolt head as they were a bit close to the friction plate springs for comfort.



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/587.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/588.jpg

[DeanoH]

Just wondering ............................. where/how do you source 12v for non engine electrics ?

Deano :)

[goingbush]

Just wondering ............................. where/how do you source 12v for non engine electrics ?

Deano :)

Some people mount a pulley & alternator on the front Auxilliury shaft but I am using a 144 to 13.8 -50 Amp DC/DC Converter .

one of these 144V Input, 12V 50A Output, Waterproof 600W Isolated DC-DC Converter USA Stock! | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/144V-Input-12V-50A-Output-Waterproof-600W-Isolated-DC-DC-Converter-USA-Stock/172193826927)

this guy does not ship to Australia so I checked AliBaba & found the manufacturer who will sell for US $110 shipped .

You can run your 12V system direct from this , but the System voltage (144v) must be isolated which means you need a small battery to energise relays & precharge contactors etc . I'll probably use a small deep cycle 12v about Lawnmower battery size.

AS well as the 12v lights, wipers . horn etc I'll be running a 12v vacuum pump for the brakes & 12v blower to supply cool filtered air to keep the motor from getting dust / moisture etc . And a 12v heater element to satisfy ADR demister requirement. I think 50Amps should be heaps but I might install a 2nd converter for redundancy.

[goingbush]

Pulled seatbox out for better access to Remove Fuel tanks and fuel lines . Im making battery boxes to go in their place, I thought 10 cells in each box but it works out to 12 in each box . leaving 21 to go under bonnet.

One thing I'm not going to miss is filling these Tanks , series One style , Did I mention I hate the smell of petrol !

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/650.jpg

I should really pull the gearbox out and put a seal set through it , its never going to get easier than this and it does leak - a lot !

[Milton477]

Absolutely !! Its like banging your head against a bloody brick wall . Trying to deal with the sole Australian agent for HPEVS AC motors is almost impossible , its a common complaint of Australian EV forum , almost to the extent that I was about to become an Eastern States agent for HPEVS just so that I could get a motor.

And as for the batteries..... I can get them for almost 1/3 the price than advertised on the DIY EV price guides, the industry in Australia needs a good kick up the arse.

and thanks for reminding me, I do need to update the website.

Interesting project, thanks for taking the time to write about it.
Could you perhaps share where you are finding batteries at almost 1/3 price?

[goingbush]

Interesting project, thanks for taking the time to write about it.
Could you perhaps share where you are finding batteries at almost 1/3 price?


Maybe the Advertised prices I was referring too were way high as that price guide is out of date and thus over inflated in comparison to current prices . So until I have actually secured the batteries lets call that a bit of ****ing in the wind on my part.

[DeanoH]

I should really pull the gearbox out and put a seal set through it , its never going to get easier than this and it does leak - a lot !

At the risk of asking a dumb question [bigsmile1], why not (theoretically) remove the gearbox and clutch assembly and fit the motor directly to the transfer case ? as this could then free the whole engine bay for batterys as well as significant weight saving. Maybe run an alternator or vacuum pump from the PTO output ? Is the DC torque going to be an issue with the 'old' transfer case ?

Deano :}

[rangieman]

At the risk of asking a dumb question [bigsmile1], why not (theoretically) remove the gearbox and clutch assembly and fit the motor directly to the transfer case ? as this could then free the whole engine bay for batterys as well as significant weight saving. Maybe run an alternator or vacuum pump from the PTO output ? Is the DC torque going to be an issue with the 'old' transfer case ?

Deano :}
Dad always said there is no such thing as a dumb question [wink11]
I just worry about some of the people that ask question`s [bighmmm]
No offence intended to present company[bigwhistle]

[goingbush]

At the risk of asking a dumb question [bigsmile1], why not (theoretically) remove the gearbox and clutch assembly and fit the motor directly to the transfer case ? as this could then free the whole engine bay for batterys as well as significant weight saving. Maybe run an alternator or vacuum pump from the PTO output ? Is the DC torque going to be an issue with the 'old' transfer case ?

Deano :}


No problem at all , very good idea actually , some EV car conversions bolt direct to the diff , so bolting the motor to the Transfer case is a good idea, Infact the White EV conversion Suzuki 4x4 of Mark French thats just crossed the Simpson in 4 days had the motor bolted direct to TC , (The yellow on had it bolted to gearbox. )

good idea with the vacuum pump on PTO too

The main reason Im doing it this way is to keep the Vehicle as Original as feasibly possible , with a view to making it easy to convert back to original at some future stage. if that makes any sense at all .

[shanegtr]

Electric Motor shaft to LandRover Flywheel adaptor .
You would not think you could transmit all that power through a 1/4" keyway !!

I've worked on plenty of steam turbines that have no keyway on the drive couplings, purely a fricton fit[thumbsupbig]

Awesome project by the way. My wife for some strange reason likes mini mokes, I've thought about doing one of those as an EV project

[goingbush]

Could you pressurise the housing for short periods when wading? You mentioned having an electric compressor for the brakes or did I misunderstand.


Low pressure 130cfm from a 12v 2.5A marine blower fan and 3" pod filter will keep the motor dust and grime free . I'll mount the pod up high & obviously come up with better ductwork, I do not like the idea of the open cooling vent , the exit vents are all around the rear of the motor where I taped some crepe paper to test the airflow . not sure of an easy way to cover over them to make a raised outlet , would not want to be standing in water, (Not to mention I don't really want 144V passing through me .)

I think the 30watts is a small price to pay .

PS I did try hooking the blower up to the oil bath air cleaner but it really cut back its capacity , the pod filter offered no noticeble restriction.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/660.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/661.jpg

[JDNSW]

Would it be worth fitting a thermal switch so the fan only operates when needed?

[bee utey]

Would it be worth fitting a thermal switch so the fan only operates when needed?

Another use for the ubiquitous cheap Chinese 12V DC temperature controller?

[goingbush]

Made a mount for VW - Audi 12V Vacuum Pump to supply brake booster, using some machined out nuts to seat isolation rubbers.

This pump does not have a Vacuum cut off switch , but I have one on order which replaces the booster check valve, the pump will only run to replenish the Vacuum after using brakes.

Rubber isolation mounted using all existing holes, the bottom rubber is a modified 40 series spring bush , the top two rubber bushes came with the pump.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/699.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/700.jpg

[DeanoH]

Will you need a vacuum 'storage' tank similar to the old Landy 21/4 litre diesel setup ? (I always found it a bit hard to wrap my head around a storage tank for a lack of something. :confused:)

Deano :)

[goingbush]

Will you need a vacuum 'storage' tank similar to the old Landy 21/4 litre diesel setup ? (I always found it a bit hard to wrap my head around a storage tank for a lack of something. :confused:)

Deano :)

The Audi A-4 it came off has a vacuum reservoir, so I better add one just incase.

[Don 130]

I've worked on plenty of steam turbines that have no keyway on the drive couplings, purely a fricton fit[thumbsupbig]

Awesome project by the way. My wife for some strange reason likes mini mokes, I've thought about doing one of those as an EV project

the chinese make the moke bodies. Don't know how you'd with ADR's, but mokes are huge fun. An electric one would be good.

Mini Moke Body-Mini Moke Body Manufacturers, Suppliers and Exporters on Alibaba.comNew Cars (https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=mini+moke+body)

Don.

[goingbush]

Managed to convert my Cardboard template to DXF & sent the file to plasma cutters , Welded the pieces together & it looks like it will do the job.


Engine mounts are LS1 from here 2 X UNBREAKABLE ENGINE MOUNT HOLDEN COMMODORE VT VX VY VZ LS1 L76 L98 5.7 6.0 V8 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-X-UNBREAKABLE-ENGINE-MOUNT-HOLDEN-COMMODORE-VT-VX-VY-VZ-LS1-L76-L98-5-7-6-0-V8/252690928325)

I bought them not because I needed unbreakable, but because I could swivel them to whatever position I needed, made the mount so much easier to fabricate.





https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/14.jpg

[goingbush]

Motor Controller & fresh air blower on rack above motor. A PVC plumbing fitting is a tight push fit into the hole on the front motor mount , I think I'll make an alloy piece , the cooling air will be blown into there.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/15.jpg

[Don 130]

Have you seen this Don?

http://unsealed4x4.com.au/u4x4/issue043/#43

Don.

[goingbush]

Have you seen this Don?

http://unsealed4x4.com.au/u4x4/issue043/#43

Don.


Thanks, have been looking forward to reading about that . !!

[goingbush]

Whilst waiting for batteries and other parts I decided to make Chill plate for the Motor Controller , rather than a finned heatsink . Started off with a 300 x 300 x 22mm alloy plate.

The controllers do get hot under constant load and cut performance back when they go over 60c . Chill plate solves the problem.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/547.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/548.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/549.jpg


I ordered a VW Auxiliary coolant pump, its a nice small pump with isolated mount included. no specs on current draw but I doubt it more than 15 Watt .


one of these
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2Pin-Front-Auxiliary-Cooling-Water-Pump-1K0965561J-fit-for-2-0T-VW-Jetta-Passat-Golf-CC/32818270209.html

[goingbush]

Not much happening, still waiting for batteries to arrive.

I have mounted the DC-DC Converter , this replaces the Alternator , converts traction battery (144V) to 13.8V @ up to 50Amps , to keep the 12V ancillaries alive, this is the unit with the finned alloy cover. If I need more than 50amps I can wire two in parallel, but only had a 35Amp alternator before so should be fine.

The box on the passenger footwell is the 3.3kW Charger , Plugs into 240v 15Amp GPO to charge the Lithium traction pack. Its heatsink & cooling fan extends down into the footwell, - had to cut a hole but luckily there was a cutout for the LHD Brake pedal position.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/240.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/241.jpg

[goingbush]

Auxiliary Panel was used on Lightweight FFR for 24V Ammeter and Voltmeter.
I'll keep a 2" 12v Gauge and have replaced the Ammeter with the Curtis "Spyglass" and added a menu button . System programming is done via this gauge. The standard LandRover fuel gauge will be the traction battery level indicator , will read Full at 164V and empty at 120 Volt , (Emergency flat is 115V - discharge beyond that the batteries may be damaged, but battery management system will disconnect system,)

I can also programme the standard water temp gauge to display battery/ motor or controller temp,

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/243.jpg

[goingbush]

Was thinking of using a Td5 Fly by wire throttle pedal, but just did not look right so hooked up a 5k Curtis Golf Buggy potentiometer to the Series throttle linkage,

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/242.jpg

[goingbush]

As if I don't already have enough gear levers , I found a neat switch that will act as Forward / Neutral / Reverse , It fits nicely into the Gearbox oil filler rubber bung and has a neat latching action. I'll use this as Forward / Reverse rather than using reverse on the main gearbox. means I can reverse in any gear.

from NCOP14 (rules I must follow)




A combination of two different actuations, e.g. a toggle switch with a cover, or a separate reverse enabling switch; or
A momentary contact switch which allows reverse gear to be engaged only when the vehicle is moving with a forward speed of less than 5 km/h. Above this speed all actionson this switch must be ineffective



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/244.jpg

[goingbush]

Bit of a stumbling block. I don't know where i'm going to mount my J1772 charge receptacle.
They usually go in the old fuel filler hole . As both my fuel tanks had series one style filling . Lift up the seat & fill direct into the tank, there is no external fuel filler.

No way I'm going to cut a hole in the bodywork . I could make a replica radiator grille & have an opening section & plug in there , (Im not going to cut my very rare lightweight grille) I was thinking perhaps in the Tuaam Antenna box, which does have an opening lid, or in the toolbox behind the rear wheel. None of the options are ideal.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/245.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/246.jpg

[roverrescue]

Bush
Could you mount the charge receptacle on the rear cross member
Would look a little like a trailer lighting plug?

Steve

[goingbush]

Bush
Could you mount the charge receptacle on the rear cross member
Would look a little like a trailer lighting plug?

Steve

Good thought Steve, only unlike other LandRovers there is no PTO hole on the Lightweight which would be a good place to recess the socket.
I do have the original Mil style trailer plug which I'm keeping as I'll be doing a few tip runs. However you got me thinking I could mount it in the hole on the front crossmember, facing forward , with a splash cover.
thanks for the idea.

[cjc_td5]

How about mounting the socket on a bracket in behind the front number plate somewhere?

Chris

[goingbush]

Battery Boxes made from folded and welded 1.5mm steel .
Trial fitting before I work out the mounting brackets.


All boxes are 320mm high to accomodate 280mm high cells plus room for wiring & clamps. Front box containing 12 cells, sits below the top of the chassis to lower center of gravity, but not so low that the diff will touch it .


mounted behind that is a box for 9 cells.


Underseat boxes hold 12 cells each, they are a tight fit width wise.
My 45x 200AHA prismatic cells have arrived at the Australian importer Home (http://www.milbay.com.au) , just waiting for delivery.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/337.jpg




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/338.jpg




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/339.jpg

[DiscoMick]

This is a fascinating project.

[weeds]

Electric cars need drip trays as well??

[goingbush]

Electric cars need drip trays as well??

Might have to start using sawdust !! I do have a seal kit for the gearbox, I best put it in before its too late !!

[goingbush]

Woo Hoo, Batteries arrived . no excuses now . Time to get stuck into project

Test fit in one of my Under seat boxes , once I put a bit of coreflute around the inside edges it will be like a bought one.
Wasn't until I put the cells in the box that I worked out how I'd be clamping them down. I think I'll put 3 x lengths of 1/4 All-thread from side to side and squeeze the box sides in on the battery pack. They say to pack them nice and tight to stop the possibility of swelling during charging.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/476.jpg

[goingbush]

Mounting the front boxes is a pain , remembering they have to take 12G in a frontal impact to satisfy VicRoads . Meaning any occupants will be dead , but they want batteries contained, not necessarily intact .

Front box is great , it sits below the chassis mounted into oil cooler chassis tabs 4 x 1/4 UNF bolts , total sheer force 4000kg (only need 1500kg total) & the two 1/2" UNF shocker bolts at the rear of front box , something like 10,000kg sheer force.

Mounting of rear box is a problem, I have to mount it high to clear the motor & offset to one side because of steering box arm , This gives me a place to mount my 40Ah 12Volt Ancillary battery ( Golf Buggy battery) .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/477.jpg

[goingbush]

A bit more progress.


Hopefully the lengths of all-thread which pull the sides of the boxes to squeeze the cells tight together will suffice as a clamp.


Interestingly that small 12V SLA 18AH weighs more than one 200AH Prismatic cell !!


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/623.jpg




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/624.jpg




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/12/625.jpg

[DeanoH]

Looking good and I guess the light is in sight at the end of the tunnel, but what's in the grey clear topped box behind the 'radiator'.

Deano :)

[singlecell]

Awesome project. Will be following along. I secretly hoped the engine of the series 2 I bought didn't work so I had the excuse to concert it to ev!

[goingbush]

Awesome project. Will be following along. I secretly hoped the engine of the series 2 I bought didn't work so I had the excuse to concert it to ev!

Thanks,

Err yes . I was looking for a suitable car to convert for some time and found a really cheap PT Cruiser with a blown engine . Engineer put paid to that, saying I cant convert an East West post 98 because of Crash / Crumple zone / Airbag ADR's .

Bit of head scratching and I realised I already had a perfect vehicle to convert , Just too bad it had a ripper engine (only 64,000 miles from new)

BTW I pulled the head off the PT and found 2 burned exhaust valves and timing belt fail, Luckily they have non interfering valves ( wont hit pistons in the event of belt fail) , All fixed and its my daily runabout till the Landy is back on the road.

[goingbush]

Looking good and I guess the light is in sight at the end of the tunnel, but what's in the grey clear topped box behind the 'radiator'.

Deano :)

yep, its getting close now, probably still a few weeks .

The enclosure is the box where the high voltage contactors (relays) , 600 / 400 amp HRC fuses and Zeva BMS (Battery monitoring system) will be housed , keeping them isolated from 12v wiring.

For the purposes of ADR's anything over 60V DC or 25V AC is classified as Hazardous Voltage and must be in orange wiring / orange conduit and need to have lightning bolt stickers all over it . Battery boxes have to have covers that need tools to remove . I'll be using perspex lids . bloody overkill if you ask me but I think the Orange is more an awareness thing for emergency services people.

[goingbush]

High voltage stuff done, time for a motor test run . Apologies for camera focus problems , now time to reassemble and wire up the fiddly 12volt stuff, got to put lots of relays for motor blower , cooling pump .

(both back wheels jacked up btw)

Forward / reverse switch is playing up already .


https://youtu.be/zKI6_p2n1Tg

[goingbush]

Almost Finished, I still have to replace a seal in the front of TC , but I'm waiting till I can drive it up on the ramps.

The grey components, grey wiring & TFT screen are part of the Zeva BMS (Battery monitoring system) , there is one for each bank of 12 cells , linked by CANbus . Orange wiring = Hazardous voltages

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/464.jpg


Battery box under drivers seat (mirrored under pax seat) . It has a perspex lid . If access is required the seat box has to come out , even to get the lid off .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/465.jpg

Just need to finish interior wiring , Floor panel goes on after TC front seal is done.
The LCD display is indicating that the Battery is almost fully charged (green line at bottom) and that cells are averaging 3.30v , lowest is 3.28 & highest is 3.30 , Ideally I'd like to charge that 3.28 cell to boost it up - which I will do if its in one of the accessible battery boxes, however over progressive charge cycles the BMS will drain off the other cells to bring them to the level of the lowest cell, thus balancing the pack.

BTW, I didn't hack up a rare Lightweight Aux panel to mount that TFT and switch bank , I made it from a piece of 6mm Alloy plate , pretty happy how it turned out with faux patina :)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/466.jpg

[goingbush]

What a bloody little ripper, took it for a first test drive today , and I got to say I'm impressed . Its all I had hoped and more.

Glad I kept the gearbox though , Taking off in 4th is too sluggish . Using both 2nd and 4th its just great . Got up to 118kmh on the flat, I glanced at TFT screen & was pulling about 450 amps , (I have a 600 Amp fuse) Best I ever got before with Internal Combustion Engine was 98kmh flat knacker. Sitting about 90kmh is comfortable , before 80kmh was about as fast as you wanted to go. (speeds checked with GPS ap on phone)

Love the reverse switch, much better than revers in main gearbox.

I'll have to take it to a weigh bridge, it seems to be sitting higher in the front. Might have to remove a leaf , but it does ride OK.


I'll put as dash cam & mount go pro tomorrow & test it in the dirt .




Charging 3.3kw , pumping in about 21.5Amps
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/509.jpg


Only changes inside are the TFT screen and a few switches and regen knob , plus the forward reverse lever behind the main gear lever. (I think I have enough levers now. )
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/510.jpg


I put an Emergency Stoppo button where my old fuel cock used to be (mainly to fill the existing holes) - I accidentally hit it with my heel on my test run & wondered why I lost all power , wont do that again - I guess it doubles as an inertia switch :0
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/511.jpg




Bonnet up to prove it works
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/512.jpg


Murray River at the end of our street.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/513.jpg

[AK83]

What a bloody little ripper, took it for a first test drive today , and I got to say I'm impressed . Its all I had hoped and more.

....

Awesome! [thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig]

Been following this thread with a lot of interest and hoping for a great outcome for 'ya.

[Homestar]

Great job! Hope to see it at Corowa. 👍😊

[roverrescue]

Well done mate
Any drama getting final compliance and registered
Has come a treat you should be well proud

S

[goingbush]

Well done mate
Any drama getting final compliance and registered
Has come a treat you should be well proud

S

Thanks,

No Blue Plate yet , but Rego is current . Just have to fix demister before I visit my VASS engineer . That wont be a problem, (except finding a trailer to tow it to Castlemaine) He used to do the Hyundai / Blade EV paperwork, this should be a no brainer. Have followed NCOP14 to the letter !!

[goingbush]

https://youtu.be/MYLrlbNpGxw

[roverrescue]

Bloody gold mate
It goes to show how much NVH is from gear train and tyres in shed class land rovers eh
Have you even got (want to know) a number all in minus labour plus hours consumed!!!

Would you do it again?

Do old series LR make good donors for ev?

Would you think their would be benefit in yanking the gear train
And then running motor to a simple small gear box straight out to rear diff
Losing complexity of 4wd if you wanting a “town car series ev”

Steve

[goingbush]

and in Low Range , another one coming from a handheld camera when it finally uploads.


https://youtu.be/0Oe7UezGaO4

[goingbush]

Bloody gold mate
It goes to show how much NVH is from gear train and tyres in shed class land rovers eh
Have you even got (want to know) a number all in minus labour plus hours consumed!!!

Would you do it again?

Do old series LR make good donors for ev?

Would you think their would be benefit in yanking the gear train
And then running motor to a simple small gear box straight out to rear diff
Losing complexity of 4wd if you wanting a “town car series ev”

Steve

Yes I would do it again, for sure . Yes its still bloody noisy !!

Series Landy makes a great donor because the batteries can be fitted without hacking great holes in the floor or otherwise taking up load space. Better than any other vehicle I can think of , And weight distribution is not upset.

I reckon a Defender would be great to convert too, for the same reason.

Even taking off in 4th its probably still faster than going through the gears with the petrol motor, Def dont need the overdrive though. It would certainly be quieter and more efficient without gearbox, but Id suggest a gruntier motor, or even a DC Motor if you dont need regen braking.

[goingbush]

https://youtu.be/xw0QiJK_NGI

[AK83]

I'm also curious as to how well it works up and down steep inclines.
Theoretically the low down(Instant) torque of an electric motor should make uphill a cinch! .. and low range downhill much better than any combustion engine'd vehicle(diesel or not).

Also would higher gearing help with electrical consumption too ... have you done the math/calculations to try to improve speed/economy balance?

[dickyjoe]

Looks great! The drivetrain noise is amazingly loud! Has the cabin noise changed do you think? Heat in the cab would be much better I would of thought.

It seems to me that removal of the gearbox would be the next way to gain more efficiency and less noise.

Would you agree?

[roverrescue]

Talking drivetrain
Bush - would it be possible to mount the motor to the diff nose directly turning the pinion?

I guess could run one front and rear , bringbin the front for launch!!!!!

Feasible ? Obviously would want to get tyre siZe / Diff gearing spot on
But seems a funky way to EV a series

Could yank all the midline spinny bits that way?

S

[goingbush]

Looks great! The drivetrain noise is amazingly loud! Has the cabin noise changed do you think? Heat in the cab would be much better I would of thought.

It seems to me that removal of the gearbox would be the next way to gain more efficiency and less noise.

Would you agree?

Yes, for an Electric Vehicle its very loud.

noise before and after , Compare both taken with the same camera .

Before = LandRover Lightweight, test drive - YouTube (https://youtu.be/8k37OSIg6_I)

After = LandRover EV Conversion, First drive part 3 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/xw0QiJK_NGI)

No factory EV has a gearbox , but they typically do about 5000RPM at 100kmh , 4.7 is too high , Tesla has something like a 7:1 final drive.

[goingbush]

Talking drivetrain
Bush - would it be possible to mount the motor to the diff nose directly turning the pinion?

I guess could run one front and rear , bringbin the front for launch!!!!!

Feasible ? Obviously would want to get tyre siZe / Diff gearing spot on
But seems a funky way to EV a series

Could yank all the midline spinny bits that way?

S

I think two motors is the way to go, but joined together , and mount in the transmission tunnel with propshafts.
Motors bolted to the diffs would be vulnerable & heavy unsprung weight unless dare I say independent suspension.

but then efficiency gains would be rather wasted on a LandRover with Aerodynamics that suck above 40kmh :)

[DiscoMick]

That's a wonderful project, well done.

[dickyjoe]

Yes, for an Electric Vehicle its very loud.

noise before and after , Compare both taken with the same camera .

Before = LandRover Lightweight, test drive - YouTube (https://youtu.be/8k37OSIg6_I)

After = LandRover EV Conversion, First drive part 3 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/xw0QiJK_NGI)

No factory EV has a gearbox , but they typically do about 5000RPM at 100kmh , 4.7 is too high , Tesla has something like a 7:1 final drive.

Interesting. So you actually want the electric motor spinning faster than it is currently?

Drive around in low range?

Smaller tyres?

[goingbush]

I'm also curious as to how well it works up and down steep inclines.
Theoretically the low down(Instant) torque of an electric motor should make uphill a cinch! .. and low range downhill much better than any combustion engine'd vehicle(diesel or not).

Also would higher gearing help with electrical consumption too ... have you done the math/calculations to try to improve speed/economy balance? Interesting. So you actually want the electric motor spinning faster than it is currently?


Interesting. So you actually want the electric motor spinning faster than it is currently?

Drive around in low range?

Smaller tyres?

Since its an A/C motor we have regenerative braking, the motor becomes a generator with foot of throttle , This way it can hold back quite well going down hills . I have a potentiometer on dash to adjust braking amount, the pot is meant to be attached to brake pedal but I thought it more useful to experiment with it as an adjustable hill descent , not that theres any hills around here :0

In the 3rd video just when I come out of the track & put it in High Range there is a bit of a hill toward the exit from the park, It drives up in High 4th - no way ever I could go up in 4th going that slow with internal combustion. (all the low range in video was low 4th)

This motor has a sweet spot where max HP meets Max torque at about 4500 RPM, the correct gearing for that at 100kmh with 6.50-16 tyres is 3rd overdrive . 3rd gear at 80kmh would be the most efficient taking wind resistance into account (best range), Each motor design has a different sweet spot . This one has a max of 10,000 but I am keeping it below 6000 , dont want the flywheel to explode. [wink11]

[AK83]

to me the EV sounds much more quiet, even tho the predominant sound if the gearbox/TC/diff whine.
Although the combustion engined recording was also done ona gravel road which probably contributed a lot of additional sound of suspension/body noise too.

[goingbush]

to me the EV sounds much more quiet, even tho the predominant sound if the gearbox/TC/diff whine.
Although the combustion engined recording was also done ona gravel road which probably contributed a lot of additional sound of suspension/body noise too.

I might add a bit of moreys to the gearbox / TC / diffs :)

[67hardtop]

Was gonna say have u checked the oil levels??

Cheers Rod

Cool vehicle btw

[goingbush]

Have put the build on my website, all in one place, I think I got it all covered.
plenty of grammar & spelling mistakes I'm sure !!

Its going like a ripper , too hot to do a proper range test (batteries don't like charging when hot) been 38-42 every day But 55k for 50% is not bad !!

this link --> Going Bush (http://www.goingbush.com/ptev.html)

[Colmoore]

Haven't looked at your feed over the break goingbush, but wow, that it's really fantastic to see your project coming to fruition! Looks like a ripper - great work!
Col

[goingbush]

Ouch, Went to the nearest weigh bridge yesterday , 35km away

Landy is exactly 90Kg lighter than when I had it weighted for initial Rego ,
And that was with one empty tank & one half full tank, no spare & no tools, This time was weighted up with tools & all. So I'd say an easy 150Kg lighter in reality.


But bummer , Car stopped 10km from home , One dell drained out real fast whilst all the others are still healthy.
$160 tow truck ride thank you very much.


Ive charged it back overnight & Ive been hammering the car this morning, It really flies when your "trying" to drain the battery , I usually drive for economy !! The cell is looking good , maybe it drops off fast one below a trigger voltage. Anyway I do have a spare cell as I was originally going to use 46 but could only get 45 to fit. But I have to pull the seat box to change it.

I'll just monitor it for now & see if it really is a bad cell or just a random event.

Here is the BMS window, you can see the bad cell represented by the short stick !! Flat is 2.4 which it got to, bat had recovered some by the time I took the photo. I charge them to 3.45 so most of the other cells look pretty good.


(I really want to avoid having to buy a 5Kva generator ??)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/930.jpg

[Homestar]

Bummer! Hope it was a once off...

If you bolt a 5KVA in the back you’ve got a hybrid! [emoji106][emoji38]

[martnH]

Ouch, Went to the nearest weigh bridge yesterday , 35km away

Landy is exactly 90Kg lighter than when I had it weighted for initial Rego ,
And that was with one empty tank & one half full tank, no spare & no tools, This time was weighted up with tools & all. So I'd say an easy 150Kg lighter in reality.


But bummer , Car stopped 10km from home , One dell drained out real fast whilst all the others are still healthy.
$160 tow truck ride thank you very much.


Ive charged it back overnight & Ive been hammering the car this morning, It really flies when your "trying" to drain the battery , I usually drive for economy !! The cell is looking good , maybe it drops off fast one below a trigger voltage. Anyway I do have a spare cell as I was originally going to use 46 but could only get 45 to fit. But I have to pull the seat box to change it.

I'll just monitor it for now & see if it really is a bad cell or just a random event.

Here is the BMS window, you can see the bad cell represented by the short stick !! Flat is 2.4 which it got to, bat had recovered some by the time I took the photo. I charge them to 3.45 so most of the other cells look pretty good.


(I really want to avoid having to buy a 5Kva generator ??)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/01/930.jpgWhy not take a petrol generator with you?
Or its a stupid idea....

Cheers

[Milton477]

Brilliant job! Now add a solar array & hit the Simpson Desert like the zook did.

[DeanoH]

Do these batteries need to be 'equalised' on install ?

Deano :)

[goingbush]

Do these batteries need to be 'equalised' on install ?

Deano :)

yes, they were all balanced at 3.30V but I find now that they needed to be balanced at the bottom of their charge cycle at around 2.7 - 2.8V I can take them all out & do it but Ive come rot terms with how the batteries act, The Zeva BMS balances them as they charge, until about 3.45V when one battery starts going high the BMS shunt resistor cant cope with that.

[goingbush]

Why not take a petrol generator with you?
Or its a stupid idea....

Cheers
If I had one, I would bring it , But I need a bigun The Onboard charger is 3.3kw so I need at least a 4KVa , or 2 x 2KVa might work .

[goingbush]

WOO HOO, E-Series Passes VASS inspection , the Inspector said it was better than some commercial conversions he has seen.

I just need to install an Inertia switch as found on a Td5 Defender Firewall (anybody got a spare) and get my charge lead test and tagged .

I had to put radials on it too (for the brake testing) , so got some Kumho 225/75R16 & wow , what difference , It will almost roll an extra 15-20km per tank. Looks don't suit but hey , I can still put the cross plies on any time.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/02/286.jpg

[Homestar]

Great news!

I can't help but giggle a bit at the test and tagged lead though - not sure how that makes the vehicle unsafe to be on the road. 😉

[Geedublya]

Great news!

I can't help but giggle a bit at the test and tagged lead though - not sure how that makes the vehicle unsafe to be on the road. [emoji6]

I don’t believe there is any legislation or regulation requiring it for domestic use.

[Homestar]

I don’t believe there is any legislation or regulation requiring it for domestic use.

There's actually very little around test and tag for anything. Most buisnesses do it because it's best practice and anyone involved on the construction or mining industy do it because it's a site requirement. There are some requirements depeding on industy and equipment type but not nearly as much as you'd imagine given that everyone seems to insist on it.

I carry a set of tags everywhere I go with an old Meggar. Happy to relieve people of their money to do it if they want it done, even when not nessesary... 😉👍

[goingbush]

Great news!

I can't help but giggle a bit at the test and tagged lead though - not sure how that makes the vehicle unsafe to be on the road. 😉


Agreed, but for something so simple I did not want to argue if it means having the conversion signed off. I think its more an expectation if I use my charge cord plugged into some OHS savvy workplace power point.

There is nothing even mentioned in the relevant VSB / NCOP 14 about having the 240v circuit certified, only that whilst the vehicle is on charge its traction circuit is disabled.

[goingbush]

Had a good increase in battery range, due to the fitment of Radials and I installed an x-brake disc handbrake in place of the drum handbrake , the shoes were oil soaked in usual Series LandRover style, which must have created considerable drag. Todays test drive managed 65km with 50% charge remaining, happy with that.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/02/310.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/02/311.jpg

[Beery]

WOO HOO, E-Series Passes VASS inspection , the Inspector said it was better than some commercial conversions he has seen.

I just need to install an Inertia switch as found on a Td5 Defender Firewall (anybody got a spare) and get my charge lead test and tagged .

I had to put radials on it too (for the brake testing) , so got some Kumho 225/75R16 & wow , what difference , It will almost roll an extra 15-20km per tank. Looks don't suit but hey , I can still put the cross plies on any time.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/02/286.jpgMaybe some 7.50/R16 radials would suit a bit better.

[goingbush]

Maybe some 7.50/R16 radials would suit a bit better.

7'50's would fill the guards out better but the reason I went for the 225's is it put the Motors sweet spot (if you could call it that) closer to 100kph in 4th and still have some left. Electric motors are more efficient at higher RPM and they all need gearing for automotive applications.

3564 RPM @ 100kmh with 750-16 vs 3956 RPM @ 100kmh with 225's .
This is also the reason I took the overdrive off - absolutely no need for it. Would be even better with a 1:1 High range transfer box , the Series is 1:1.148 high.

With the smaller tyres I theoretically get more battery range and though I can take off and drive around town in 4th its happier in 3rd gear & I just slip it into 4th for the highway , mainly to cut back on gear noise.

With reference to the graph, its not always pulling 450 Amp at 100kph , only if you have your foot flat to the floor & accelerating , most driving around is between 50-200 amps .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/283.jpg

[Beery]

7'50's would fill the guards out better but the reason I went for the 225's is it put the Motors sweet spot (if you could call it that) closer to 100kph in 4th and still have some left. Electric motors are more efficient at higher RPM and they all need gearing for automotive applications.

3564 RPM @ 100kmh with 750-16 vs 3956 RPM @ 100kmh with 225's .
This is also the reason I took the overdrive off - absolutely no need for it. Would be even better with a 1:1 High range transfer box , the Series is 1:1.148 high.

With the smaller tyres I theoretically get more battery range and though I can take off and drive around town in 4th its happier in 3rd gear & I just slip it into 4th for the highway , mainly to cut back on gear noise.

With reference to the graph, its not always pulling 450 Amp at 100kph , only if you have your foot flat to the floor & accelerating , most driving around is between 50-200 amps .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/10/283.jpgYou've obviously given this plenty of thought!
Is 4th gear direct drive on those gearboxes? That'd make it the most efficient one for most conditions as you're not actually putting drive through the gears.

[goingbush]

You've obviously given this plenty of thought!
Is 4th gear direct drive on those gearboxes? That'd make it the most efficient one for most conditions as you're not actually putting drive through the gears.

Yes, 4th is direct drive from input shaft to output shaft , giving the layshaft no stress, but the gears being in constant mesh are all still turning. I tried thinner synthetic oil to reduce drag but finds more places to leak !! 4th is a lot nicer on overrun too because regenerative braking puts reverse load on 3rd & does not sound happy, so I back off regen if using 3rd .

Ultimately I have more than enough range for my current use, so don't really need more efficiency gains.

[Homestar]

You bringing this over to Corowa? Would love to look over it in person. 👍

[goingbush]

You bringing this over to Corowa? Would love to look over it in person. 👍

not sure , is there somewhere with a 15Amp power point just incase ?

What day would be best, obviously I'm not going near the water :)

[Homestar]

The caravan park we are staying in is full of 15 amp outlets. 👍 We stay in an unpowered area, but there are permanant sites directly opposite that no one uses that week which I sure you could avail youself of.

Saturday 17th March is the main day with the parade through town and the swapmeet up at the racecourse. After lunch the river behind the Ball Park caravan park becomes the main area of attention.

Plenty to see and do.

[goingbush]

I rang the Caravan park , no powered sites left I'm afraid, I explained the situation and they suggested I could use a powerpoint in the Camp Kitchen to charge an R/C Car , hmmm .

Corowa is right on the range limit for a trip there & back , If I buy a generator I'll come over for the Saturday otherwise happy for you to visit here if its on the way / way back , or Lunch at Club Mulwala (RSL) one day .

[Homestar]

I wasn’t going to tell them you were going to plug it in, just use a spare outlet on one of the permanents that won’t be there.[emoji56]

All good - happy to meet you somewhere too no dramas. I’m at Corowa all week so if you’re available during the week I can meet you somewhere. [emoji106][emoji4]

[goingbush]

I wasn’t going to tell them you were going to plug it in, just use a spare outlet on one of the permanents that won’t be there.[emoji56]

All good - happy to meet you somewhere too no dramas. I’m at Corowa all week so if you’re available during the week I can meet you somewhere. [emoji106][emoji4]

The problem is it uses all of the 15amps , and then the charge cable gets warm , I wouldn't be popular if I start popping circuit breakers. :)

[goingbush]

Driving around with radial tyres, compare to the earlier videos. All in top gear - no clutch.

On great thing about this is driving with the canvas sides & back flap rolled up, & Door tops removed, No Fumes .
Normally the exhaust emissions & fumes from leaky seals flung onto a hot exhaust pipe gets sucked into the cabin creating a smog microclimate. I need to wipe some au-de-EP90 about to make is smell like a real landy again.


https://youtu.be/wbBb6ZmkvD4

[goingbush]

Just found there is a Tesla Charge point at a Winery near Corowa ,

EV Charge Stations in Australia - Maps & Addresses (https://myelectriccar.com.au/charge-stations-in-australia/)

Since I have J1772 protocol I'll have to go check it out to find out what I need to make an adaptor !

[Homestar]

Looks like it is at All Saints - might pay to check it will be available that weekend as I think 'Day on the Green' is on the same weekend as the Swim in. Would hate you to drive over and not be able to use it.

There are 2 at Rutherglen though which is only 5KM or so further.

[goingbush]

just ordered GS1018 Tesla to J1772 adaptor

GELCOservices - EV Products (http://www.gelcoservices.com.au/gelco_electric_vehicle.htm#GS1015)

I hope I don't have to bloody well queue up to get to the Destination charger, !!
At a couple of hours per car it could be a long wait !!

[goingbush]

Just made enquiries about how to pay at a Tesla supercharger or destination charger , or do I need to start an account with Tesla,

response , they don't take credit cards and you don't need an account, just plug in and charge for free !!!! Whaaat ??

[martnH]

Just made enquiries about how to pay at a Tesla supercharger or destination charger , or do I need to start an account with Tesla,

response , they don't take credit cards and you don't need an account, just plug in and charge for free !!!! Whaaat ??Woo....
That's communism... can I charge my deep cycle batteries there as well?

Tesla is a very aggressive player.....

[DiscoMick]

We might all have to copy your example, sooner than we thought.

Actually, I've been reading magazine reports about people who have converted their houses to all solar and several have bought small electric cars such as Mitsubishis and Nissans, because they can charge them off their houses and get free motoring. With ranges of up to 300 kms the EVs seem to meet most needs.
I said to the wife, when we do up our solar and retire, we could do that, while keeping the Defender for touring. She liked the idea.

[Don 130]

We might all have to copy your example, sooner than we thought.

Actually, I've been reading magazine reports about people who have converted their houses to all solar and several have bought small electric cars such as Mitsubishis and Nissans, because they can charge them off their houses and get free motoring. With ranges of up to 300 kms the EVs seem to meet most needs.
I said to the wife, when we do up our solar and retire, we could do that, while keeping the Defender for touring. She liked the idea.

I've been thinking the same thing. My commute is usually but not always only 10 mins. A small electric jigger would be very handy. The 130 is probably not the best for such a short trip, but I'm not about to let it go. Last weeks jaunt was 1600Km. There's no way an EV would have done that trip.
Don.

[Homestar]

We might all have to copy your example, sooner than we thought.

Actually, I've been reading magazine reports about people who have converted their houses to all solar and several have bought small electric cars such as Mitsubishis and Nissans, because they can charge them off their houses and get free motoring. With ranges of up to 300 kms the EVs seem to meet most needs.
I said to the wife, when we do up our solar and retire, we could do that, while keeping the Defender for touring. She liked the idea.

While I have no issue with EV vehicles, that policy has some bonkers ideas in it... It shouldn’t be posted here anyway as it’s Political...

[tact]

[...]
Actually, I've been reading magazine reports about people who have converted their houses to all solar and several have bought small electric cars such as Mitsubishis and Nissans, because they can charge them off their houses and get free motoring. [...].

There are some clever schemes where off peak electricity is charged at a lower rate: e.g. You get home and it is peak time, people cooking etc, you plug your vehicle into the charger and optionally it can feed INTO the grid with any remaining charge (reducing your household consumption at peak rates, acting like a supplementary battery bank). Then when offpeak cheaper price kicks in, the car draws power to charge itself.

[DiscoMick]

Yes, that's clever, and there is software which switches the power you generate around to various uses - running the house, charging batteries, heating/cooling, or back to the grid - to maximise the benefit to the user.
I suppose a car could be put on a timer to recharge when the cost is lowest.
With EVs having ranges of around 300 kms, but average daily trips only being 50-60kms, recharging should only take maybe 3 hours.

[goingbush]

I'm no Greenie, geez Ive even deleted the EGR & DPF from my Iveco , That makes me Evil according to the greens .
I don't think converting my landy to EV even atones for that !

Have done about 2000km in the EV now and not paid a cent for power / fuel.
car has a 3.3kw charger , solar array on house / shed is 5kw .

as for hooking the house up to battery, instead of buying a "power wall' it would be so easy to use the cars battery /BMS to provide night time power to the house .

[DiscoMick]

I thought of you while reading a very interesting report about a classic Range Rover converted to electric power in Land Rover Owner International today.
The conversion was done by Richard Morgan whose company can be found at electricclassiccars.co.uk.
Basically he has installed an 80kWh battery pack using 15 Tesla Model S batteries, resulting in a range of 200 miles.
Five are in the engine bay and the the rest are in the back replacing the fuel tank. The 12 volt electrical remains standard, but the vehicle has electric power steering and a Hill Descent Control. A brake pressure sensor applies regenerative braking. Brushless AC motors from HPEVS are used to achieve a constant torque torque of 250lb ft.
The original five speed gearbox and transfer box are used. The motors are linked to the original accelerator pedal via a throttle position sensor activated by the throttle cable which sends a village to the motor controllers. One hundred percent of the torque is available from zero rpm.
Weight is 1880kg, only 60kg more than a standard V8 and 300kg lighter than a Tesla.
Charging speed depends on the charging point and varies between 20 minutes and 20 hours. A household three-pin plug only gives 10 amps or 2.4kw so would take almost a day. A Mennekes Type 2 wall pod charger delivers 7kw and could recharge overnight. A motorway servo rapid recharger would give 80% in 20 minutes.
A full recharge costs eight pounds for 200 miles, about 10 times cheaper than running a 3.5 litre V8 on petrol. Charge it on solar at home and it costs almost nothing.
Cost of conversion - 35,000 English pounds.
Interesting.

[Phil B]

I thought of you while reading a very interesting report about a classic Range Rover converted to electric power in Land Rover Owner International today.
The conversion was done by Richard Morgan whose company can be found at electricclassiccars.co.uk.
Basically he has installed an 80kWh battery pack using 15 Tesla Model S batteries, resulting in a range of 200 miles.
Five are in the engine bay and the the rest are in the back replacing the fuel tank. The 12 volt electrical remains standard, but the vehicle has electric power steering and a Hill Descent Control. A brake pressure sensor applies regenerative braking. Brushless AC motors from HPEVS are used to achieve a constant torque torque of 250lb ft.
The original five speed gearbox and transfer box are used. The motors are linked to the original accelerator pedal via a throttle position sensor activated by the throttle cable which sends a village to the motor controllers. One hundred percent of the torque is available from zero rpm.
Weight is 1880kg, only 60kg more than a standard V8 and 300kg lighter than a Tesla.
Charging speed depends on the charging point and varies between 20 minutes and 20 hours. A household three-pin plug only gives 10 amps or 2.4kw so would take almost a day. A Mennekes Type 2 wall pod charger delivers 7kw and could recharge overnight. A motorway servo rapid recharger would give 80% in 20 minutes.
A full recharge costs eight pounds for 200 miles, about 10 times cheaper than running a 3.5 litre V8 on petrol. Charge it on solar at home and it costs almost nothing.
Cost of conversion - 35,000 English pounds.
Interesting.

Au$70k? Don’t think they will get too many clients!!!

[DiscoMick]

Not here, but apparently they are busy with a range of electric projects and he is expanding his staff from 4 to 8.

[nick_e]

Love this conversion. Thanks for sharing it.

Would be awesome to convert my 110, although it would cost a fortune to install enough batteries to get the range I would want.

Would need lot of portable solar panels so you can set up camp in the bush and charge for free.

Much easier to do conversions in the US as batteries there are so much cheaper. There is the kombi guy on youtube was selling Li-ion packs for something like 120USD/kWh. They are starting to get the model 3 packs hit the market now, reclaimed from write offs, they have the highest watt density of any pack I think.

[goingbush]

yes , so much for the lucky country . so hard to do anything DIY EV here

Heres a bloke here fitting used Tesla modules to his RRC conversion


https://youtu.be/vR8z4uTrXVI

[goingbush]

I should mention,
Watch out for June LRO , my EV Conversion got a pretty good spread.

Land Rover Owner International magazine June 2018 — LRO (https://www.lro.com/books-mags-dvds/land-rover-owner-magazine-june-2018)

[DiscoMick]

Looking forward to that.

[CU55TM Disco]

This conversion is Rad!

Well done! Very well done indeed!!!

[goingbush]

I love how it can crawl with only a few RPM .

https://youtu.be/ndLEPLwDR0M

[goingbush]

and a few more RPM. (video)


https://www.facebook.com/don.incoll/videos/1722899657791817/

[goingbush]

When I converted to Electric I did as few alterations as possible to allow for this rather rare LandRover to put back to original if the need arose, or if I was unhappy with the EV conversion. Well that is never going to happen, as an EV the vehicle is so much better in every respect, I'd have to be nuts to put the Internal Combustion engine back, I'll be moving the engine onto another Lightweight owner as there are a few I know on the lookout for one.

So having made the decision to keep it as an Electric Vehicle I decided to beef up the back end so that I can realise the full potential of the torque & regenerative braking.

For the six months since I've had it converted Ive avoided using 1st & 2nd & had the regen braking levels reduced in software for fear of breaking the rare Lightweight half shafts . (10spline inner / 24 spline outer & flat end caps)

I put a 24 spline TrueTrac inside a D2 housing & used Ashcroft 4.75 gears with Ashcroft CrMo 24 spline series half shafts. Now No fear of breaking anything . Those gears are very substantial ,

pic shows 4.75 compared to the 3.54 set that came out of the D2 diff .

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/174-1.jpg


The pinion only has 8 teeth rather than 13 (3.54) or 10 (4.7) but they are more of a spiral & have a lot more contact area per tooth.

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/174-2.jpg


The old diff did not have excessive backlash & no visible issues (only 85.000 miles) but the vehicle had quite an overrun vibration before, I assumed was the layshaft bearing , its completely silent now , woo hoo , no need for a gearbox rebuild .

The bottom line is now I have no fear using 1st (totally not necessary ) and find myself taking off in 2nd gear now to enjoy brisk acceleration & a very cool EV wind up noise as it accelerates through to 7000RPM (= 80kmh doesn't take long).

The absolute bonus is now I've screwed the Regen braking up to 100% , the braking on it is now phenomenal , the negative g's are impressive, I have altered the wiring so can have the choice of Regen braking invoked by brake pedal via stop light switch or by a potentiometer on the dash , which is going to be useful for downhill descents .

Before I had the regeneration maxed at 80 Amps , now its pushing up to 400 Amps back into the battery :) - ( probably have to back it off in the wet weather) :)

[loanrangie]

So when is the real off road test ?

[goingbush]

So when is the real off road test ?

Im putting it on a trailer and taking it to Bright soon, theres a few tracks I know of that will be test enough for me to determine if its better at proper Low Range stuff, and it will be really interesting to find out how much the battery recharges on the way back down. Just debating on if I should put a TrueTrac & 4.75 in the front diff first.

The biggest issue will be holding it stopped whilst on a slope , since the motor is just a freewheeling spindle when its off that cant hold the car in gear , got to rely solely on the handbrake . Theres no provision in the regulations to incorporate a parking pawl or locking dog of any type like in an auto transmission, I'll see what I can come up with.

[goingbush]

Heres a little test of the regen braking .

I have a dash mounted switch (Red Knob) to activate what I call Hill Descent mode, this enables descending hills without foot on the brake and the level of regenerative braking is controlled by a dash potentiometer.

When the red knob is off the regen braking is operated by foot brake , from the brake light circuit. it comes on just before the hydraulics. Again the level of regen can be adjusted by dash pot .

Not much of a hill but the only one in battery range . The braking from 60 was regenerative only (no foot brake) . On the dirt bit the descent control was on max then i decreased regen level with pot & then maxed it again. Works well , this was 3rd gear high range.

Obviously all the braking is being done by the rear wheels, might be interesting in the wet , but in 4WD that wont be a problem, the test proves that it works & will be really useful in low range downhill. And it charges the batteries as its working .


https://youtu.be/8Dy28Fg28bg

http://goingbush.com/ptev/redknob.jpg

http://goingbush.com/ptev/redknobcct.jpg

[Graeme]

Is there a need to operate the brake lights when the dash switch is used? RMS tried to introduce brake light activation on headers when braking under motor control but loud protests about the cost to retrofit and that headers only travel slowly anyway caused the abandonment of the idea. However on an EV the situation may well be different.

[rangieman]

Is there a need to operate the brake lights when the dash switch is used? RMS tried to introduce brake light activation on headers when braking under motor control but loud protests about the cost to retrofit and that headers only travel slowly anyway caused the abandonment of the idea. However on an EV the situation may well be different.
Good point i did think the same when i watched the vid[wink11]

[weeds]

Is there a need to operate the brake lights when the dash switch is used? RMS tried to introduce brake light activation on headers when braking under motor control but loud protests about the cost to retrofit and that headers only travel slowly anyway caused the abandonment of the idea. However on an EV the situation may well be different.

Could be worthwhile as it might catch the following car by surprise.

I know the transmission braking on the trial bushmasters was very aggressive and from memory on at least civilian two cars ran into the rear and comments from the driver was they didn’t see brake light come on..

[goingbush]

No, there is no legal requirement for brake lights to activate with regen , though the Controller has an output, Normally when driving on the road I'll only be using the brake pedal.
Does hill descent on a modern 4WD turn on the brake lights ?? I know jake brakes and so forth dont .

The other thing surprisingly thats not in the regulations , is there is no requirement for a positive locking park brake, only a handbrake is required , ICE cars have either a Park Pawl on auto trans & Handbrake , or a Manual can be left in gear plus handbrake.

There is a Security camera Video of a unoccupied / parked Tesla model S which releases its EPB & rolls down a hill, across a road & into a tree.

I'll be machining something up in due course.

[Mick_Marsh]

Fun police alert:
Electric vehicle enthusiasts convert their own petrol cars, but engineers warn of the risks of retrofitting - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-24/make-your-own-electric-car/9918964)

[goingbush]

Yep, not wrong, that what the NCOP14 & VASS engineer is all about .

When I look at some conversions I shake my head , There is a commercial operator in QLD , I cant believe what he gets past the inspectors . Battery Enclosures are supposed to withstand 20G in a front / rear impact , 10g sideways . Thats is the enclosure has to sustain 20x the battery weight .

the bloke in this video, & all those BMS wires MUST be in orange , Those plywood boxes yep 20G (not)

The next generation of electric cars is... - 9 News Queensland (https://www.facebook.com/9NewsQueensland/videos/2123098164680392/)

[goingbush]

Badge arrive from UK, Artmin Design at the Mini CNC Machining Centre (http://www.artmindesign.co.uk)

Now the EV project is finished !! ( well are projects ever finished ? ) and two more rivets for the rivet counters [bigwhistle]

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/184.jpg

[goingbush]

Ive had to move my images to a Secure server for a DIY electric car forum I'm a member of, easiest workaround for me was to create a Facebook Group to host the images .

just incase yr interested

Log in to Facebook | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1113080125510519/)

[manic]

Which forum is that?

[goingbush]

Which forum is that?

DIY Electric Car Forums Site Home (http://diyelectriccar.com) it's a real shamble at the moment as VS Admin have disallowed http images so our option it either buy a security ticket ($180 per annum from the mob I'm with) or get images hosted elsewhere.

[Lewy110]

Good Article in LRO on your lightweight.

I was watching your latest Youtube vid and noticed the one The Charge show did on it.

Very impressed with what you have done with it.

[goingbush]

Another video, ho hum, let me know if these are getting monotonous / self serving , or are they genuinely interesting ?

After 20 years of owning apple mac computers I finally discovered the Ken Burns crop function in I-Movie , post processing makes it look like a fixed mount camera is panning & zooming .


https://youtu.be/J7oN7aJo8AU

[Homestar]

I'm genuinely interested. 😊👍

[Geedublya]

Me too....

I need to win Lotto so I retire and indulge in my Helo license and building something similar.

[goingbush]

just a re-edit of some earlier clips , nothing to get excited about.


https://youtu.be/QqfBWDKobxc

[goingbush]

I should mention , the carpark behind where you see the DC3 in above video is currently under reconstruction,

A solar roof undercover carpark is going in with free EV charging .


Club Mulwala is adding a 100-space, 215Kw solar car park (https://techau.com.au/club-mulwala-is-adding-a-100-space-215kw-solar-car-park/)

[bee utey]

"2NG GEAR DRIVE BY" oops!

[goingbush]

"2NG GEAR DRIVE BY" oops!


yeah , no secret I'm dyslexic . I'll fix it - thanks for heads up .

edit, Fixed , thanks again

[goingbush]

It just gets better.

I Found a guide to programming HPEVS motors , so armed with some pointers & a bit more knowledge about what I'm doing I 'remapped' my throttle profile .

I thought it was good before but bloody hell , its like Ive found the tap for the nitro bottle ,
No idea how much I've reduced the range by but I don't really care . ( theres always ECO mode :) .)

[67hardtop]

You'll be doing 4wheel skids in the wet if ur not careful...🤣🤣🤣

[goingbush]

First Fail , 9 months after conversion.

Hopped in this morning & failed to proceed in Reverse .

Aghast . I Had to actually select reverse gear to back out the driveway .

TheChinese 'industrial' switch I use for fwd / rev broke .

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/198-1.jpg

Nothing like it at Middys so I scrounged around in my parts bin & found a Defender wiper switch . That will work just fine & should be up to the rigours of 4x4ing. Will mount it in the same place , Push fwd to go fwd , pull back & push in washer knob to go reverse ( EV reverse needs a 2 motion action due to VSB14) .

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/198-2b.jpg

[goingbush]

Fixed . Looks funny but works great.

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/209-2a.jpg

[grey_ghost]

Lol - I like it, and it’s a standard Land Rover part! [emoji1303][emoji3]

[goingbush]

bringing Lucas into the 21st century [bigwhistle]

[DiscoMick]

I don't know if you've covered this before, but did you consider having a fan spun by air movement to put some charge back into the batteries, like wind generators on yachts? I know it wouldn't do a lot, but would it extend the range enough to be worthwhile? Just an overnight thought...

[goingbush]

The drag created by the generator/s would use more energy than recovered,

Some people have also suggested wheel dynamos , Even in a perfect world of superconductors and zero friction it does not work.
There are lots of scams about asking for investors in such devices, but with such presentations its easy to get sucked in.

Different but Even Toyota are using a ploy to promote their Hybrids as a "Self Charging Electric Car" they have been made to stop such false advertising.

DOES NOT WORK, CAN NEVER WORK .


https://youtu.be/bkcn8ZkvKKc


https://youtu.be/ArziNmOCn90

[Homestar]

OMG - do people really fall for that crap? [emoji38]

[bee utey]

OMG - do people really fall for that crap? [emoji38]

Entire industries are built on people who fall for this kind of stuff. [biggrin]

[goingbush]

Entire industries are built on people who fall for this kind of stuff. [biggrin]

Amen !! [bigwhistle]

[JDNSW]

OMG - do people really fall for that crap? [emoji38]

When I was working for a really major exploration company, one of our area managers seriously entertained using a scheme where you hung a sample of what you were looking for on a string over a map of the area, and a special apparatus measured its preferred direction of movement (or something like that - I can't remember the details, but it was obviously a scam). He only dropped the idea when I told him that if he didn't, I'd write a detailed memo to the CEO showing that he was an idiot. I was sufficiently senior that he realised it would have been read and acted on.

But I don't think he was convinced it wouldn't work!

[goingbush]

Another Magazine.

Well done article by Harry Temple

http://unsealed4x4.com.au/u4x4/issue056/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=New+Issue%3A+2019+Ford+Ranger+first+dr ive&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+056+-+Send+1#55

[goingbush]

EV LandRover been on the road just shy of 12 months since conversion completed..


Done 5487Km using 1580kwh of Electricity = 28.8kwh/100km, Charging all free from Solar .


( if I was paying the standard price of domestic electricity here @ $0.29 / kwh it works out at $458.00 )


Same distance using petrol would be $1250. 🤔... plus the cost of a 5000km service.
But I would not have driven it 5000km on ICE , in the 2 years prior to EV conversion I only covered 1000km . The Landy is so much nicer and no fuss and completely reliable to drive now that I just use it at every opportunity. ...... But lets face it, your not going to do this to save money, it will take 15-20 years to pay for the conversion on the basis of saved fuel.


Not having to stuff around and queue up and then pay at a Petrol Station makes a huge difference because there is this petrol fume thing that really only affects a Series One or a Lightweight because you actually have to lift out a seat & fill the petrol inside the cabin which basically stinks all the time.


Also now theres no exhaust fumes getting sucked back into the cabin & coating your hair with that Eau-de-Soot aroma


Annual rego cost has also reduced by $100 as a 'green incentive' for EV's from VicRoads.


Only issues have been a broken Forward Reverse switch which I replaced with a Defender wiper / washer switch and I recently noticed a clunk when transitioning between fwd/rev which turned out to be slight backlash in slip joint & UJ in the rear tail-shaft which was replaced by a new OEM unit from UK which to my chagrin came in a Britpart box.


http://goingbush.com/AULRO/209-1.jpg



http://goingbush.com/AULRO/209-3.jpg

[JDNSW]

That spring hanger bolt in the last picture looks as if it has moved - might be worth checking it! (Series Landrovers tend to have nuts loosen - last service found loose U-bolts on the 2a; they have been checked every service for years and never needed tightening before).

[350RRC]

Well if we're picking the eyes out of it...........

The shock absorber looks like its letting the fun out too.

Kinda glad I haven't tried to post pics of my stuff.

This thing is just such an awesome idea brought to fruition. I wonder what the crew on Pirate 4x4 would make of it if the whole build thread was posted up in the LR section.

DL

[goingbush]

I'll get a chance to put a spanner on the spring bolt today. I suspect its tight , I loosened , rotated the & retightened the bolt when fitting the battery box because theres literally a bees dick of clearance , between it & bottom of battery box & flat of bolt head. I think the looseness mark is from then , but I'll double check.

Ha the shocker oil, Its all good , there dated 1973 , not many 45 year old cars still running original shockers. Still operates fine & passes 2 x RWC like that so i'm in no hurry to get new ones .

I dont think Pirate 4x4 are ready for EV yet , maybe try in 2025 ??

[JDNSW]

I'm not picking the eyes out of anything - I was simply making a helpful suggestion. Operating with this bolt loose will end up increasing the work needed for repair, as the hole will get enlarged.

If I was ten years younger, and had a bit more money, I would be emulating this conversion.

[350RRC]

I'm not picking the eyes out of anything - I was simply making a helpful suggestion. Operating with this bolt loose will end up increasing the work needed for repair, as the hole will get enlarged.

If I was ten years younger, and had a bit more money, I would be emulating this conversion.

Was tongue in cheek, sorry if it was read otherwise.

DL

[350RRC]

I'll get a chance to put a spanner on the spring bolt today. I suspect its tight , I loosened , rotated the & retightened the bolt when fitting the battery box because theres literally a bees dick of clearance , between it & bottom of battery box & flat of bolt head. I think the looseness mark is from then , but I'll double check.

Ha the shocker oil, Its all good , there dated 1973 , not many 45 year old cars still running original shockers. Still operates fine & passes 2 x RWC like that so i'm in no hurry to get new ones .

I dont think Pirate 4x4 are ready for EV yet , maybe try in 2025 ??

The LR section of Pirate has been pretty quiet since 2008 and the GFC.

It has changed a lot. No longer does the board light up with posts of 'Sawz All, Sawz All' when someone finds an un molested RRC. The older forum members just say things like 'be a shame to chop that' and they used to be the 'worst offenders'.

DL

[goingbush]

I dont mind at all . Oftentimes i don't see the forest for the trees and miss the bleeding obvious.

[grey_ghost]

Off topic BUT - screening on Foxtel, Jay Leno’s garage, Season 4, Epsiode 4 - he is testing a Bollinger... [emoji1303][emoji3]

[VladTepes]

I clearly don't look far enough afield on AULRO.

It was only today that I found out about this vehicle / project from a post on a hunting website of all places:
Login (https://www.australianhunting.net/index.php'topic=239875.0)

Nice job.



When initially planning the project did you consider a hybrid, so as to solve the range issue?
Know of any LR hybrid builds?

[DiscoMick]

Range Rover is already offering a factory Rangie hybrid.

[Blknight.aus]

The drag created by the generator/s would use more energy than recovered,

Some people have also suggested wheel dynamos , Even in a perfect world of superconductors and zero friction it does not work.
There are lots of scams about asking for investors in such devices, but with such presentations its easy to get sucked in.

Different but Even Toyota are using a ploy to promote their Hybrids as a "Self Charging Electric Car" they have been made to stop such false advertising.

DOES NOT WORK, CAN NEVER WORK .


https://youtu.be/bkcn8ZkvKKc


https://youtu.be/ArziNmOCn90

I know a guy who did this exact thing and sort of got it to work..

BUT..

Its not because he was doing the free energy thing it was because he couldnt get regen braking to work on a single battery bank so he put in 2 banks of batteries and the mother of all change over switches..

he drove with one motor running off of one bank and a second motor charged the second bank. He split his original bank in 2 so I dont recall it cost him too much more weight, from very vague memory he reckoned it got him 30ish% more range from when he only had electric drive.

[goingbush]

That seems a fairly clunky method of Regen braking, but I suppose if it was a DC motor that might be what you need to do to get regen working . With an AC motor its just built in (why I went the more expensive AC path) Video is just a normal drive to Bunnings from home ( yes its that close :) )

You see when the Amps goes to a Negative value that power is feeding directly back into the traction pack. All braking is regen apart from the final pull to a stop.


https://youtu.be/T6WyrG2CUT0

[goingbush]

And here we have a solid tow set up (A-frame) no driver in LandRover but key on to energise the circuit, Showing the amount of charge feeding into the battery during Regen . ( throttle pedal backed right off) Not full brake regen as I didn't want the rear wheels to break traction on the verge.

you can see the battery level increase from start to finish


https://youtu.be/V58pb3kHXoQ

[VladTepes]

Range Rover is already offering a factory Rangie hybrid.

Yeah but those also cost about half a billion dollars these days...

keepin' it real, down here at the lower end of the income spectrum...

[DiscoMick]

True. There's also the Jaguar I Pace at $119,000.
What is needed is for JLR to halve the market price for the vehicle down to $50-60,000. That might come as JLR's battery factory comes on line in the UK.

[goingbush]

I was watching a Youtube video of a Lada Niva Electromobile (EV conversion) from Ukraine and noticed an impressive Android tablet with EV information. Contacted the guy who built the car & found he also designed the Android ap and the 'PowerWatcher bluetooth device'


https://youtu.be/4V2XvTZlvTg


A few months later I now have one installed in my Landy , what a fantastic bit of kit. It picks up the speed signal from a bike speedo reed switch & magnet I mounted inside front hub .


https://youtu.be/Xv0pa3uMPN0

[goingbush]

Todays video,

Shows very low power consumption during slow speed, and not even in Eco mode, Eco mode is handy for 4WDing as changes the throttle map and smooths out the bouncy throttle inputs.


Its in High Range 4th up until 3.44 then change to Low Range for some terrain difficulties.

Synch between the Android screen recording & dash cam is slightly out but you get the idea.
Basically can tool around like this for a week without needing a charge.




https://youtu.be/TVWQujrX7vw

[VladTepes]

What a super awesome project.

As an aside - Fully Charged is my new favourite YouTube Channel.
YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow)

[goingbush]

Just something silly I tried in the shed today, Regen off , Low range 2nd gear , free wheel hubs unlocked so 2WD only . Foot on brake ( buzzing noise is vacuum pump) , Foot on throttle ,

Torque at zero RPM overcomes rear brakes , front brakes stop car going along too far, ( crash noise is a broom falling over )

Easy enough to do with any 2WD Auto but they have a torque converter , this is torque from zero RPM .


https://youtu.be/OA4ZEk21GKc

[67hardtop]

Just something silly I tried in the shed today, Regen off , Low range 2nd gear , free wheel hubs unlocked so 2WD only . Foot on brake ( buzzing noise is vacuum pump) , Foot on throttle ,

Torque at zero RPM overcomes rear brakes , front brakes stop car going along too far, ( crash noise is a broom falling over )

Easy enough to do with any 2WD Auto but they have a torque converter , this is torque from zero RPM .


https://youtu.be/OA4ZEk21GKcBloody hoon [emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji106]

[350RRC]

Just something silly I tried in the shed today, Regen off , Low range 2nd gear , free wheel hubs unlocked so 2WD only . Foot on brake ( buzzing noise is vacuum pump) , Foot on throttle ,

Torque at zero RPM overcomes rear brakes , front brakes stop car going along too far, ( crash noise is a broom falling over )

Easy enough to do with any 2WD Auto but they have a torque converter , this is torque from zero RPM .


https://youtu.be/OA4ZEk21GKc

Where is that vid of Dougal's RRC spinning all four with the 4BDIT?

DL

[dickyjoe]

G’day,

Is the gearbox and transfer case actually required at all? Could you just get away with the electric motor driving the rear of the car and the transfer case only with front lock and not a low reduction?

Richard

[goingbush]

G’day,

Is the gearbox and transfer case actually required at all? Could you just get away with the electric motor driving the rear of the car and the transfer case only with front lock and not a low reduction?

Richard

My little electric motor is only 88hp and 108ft-lbs of torque , thats not much torque even if it is there from zero, So some form of gear reduction to turn it into useful values, might as well use the existing gearbox and transfer case. Typically I just leave it in top gear high range which is 5.45:1 which is fine for cruising around town but useless in the bush . for V8 killing acceleration High 2nd is good = 12:1

def need low range for low range 4WDing.

A Bollinger has 2 speed transfer case for each front and rear motor as well as portal axle reductions.

Most factory EV cars have something between a 7:1 to 10:1 single / fixed gear reduction .

this video might help, its in Low range.


https://youtu.be/Scv2z6u-S0w

[goingbush]

I've decided I don't need Vacuum assist , well actually I disliked the sound of the 12V Vacuum pump that chattered every time I used the brakes was more the impetus. (was noisiest part of the car at slow speed ) Most of the braking is done via regenerative braking ( braking effort is converted to electricity and goes back into the battery) and the friction brakes are only used to come to a complete stop.

Have moved the pushrod pivot further up the pedal arm for a better Mechanical Advantage

(view looking through pedal box into pedal arm pivot point )
http://goingbush.com/AULRO/233-1.jpg

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/233-2.jpg

http://goingbush.com/AULRO/233-3.jpg

[goingbush]

Demo of the amount of throttle torque control, this is all in 2nd gear Low, Hill descent control less than 1kmh in 1st gear .



https://youtu.be/ndLEPLwDR0M

[VladTepes]

It may have been mentioned earlier in the thread but may I ask:

1. What's the range / charge of your vehicle on road (mixed driving)
2. What charge methid do you use? ie 15W power point or 3 phase charger thing or... ?
3. How log does it take to fully charge?

Thanks

[goingbush]

It may have been mentioned earlier in the thread but may I ask:

1. What's the range / charge of your vehicle on road (mixed driving)
2. What charge methid do you use? ie 15W power point or 3 phase charger thing or... ?
3. How log does it take to fully charge?

Thanks

I only have a small 28.8kwh LiFePo4 battery.
The car has a 3.3kw onboard charger , it plugs into a 15Amp powerpoint and draws about 12.5 Amps .
I added a digital KWh meter to the fusebox where my 15A power point is . Ive done 6800km since conversion and done 3600km since installing the meter. Over the last 3600km Ive used 918kwh which averages at 28.5 kwh per 100km , ( A Nissan Leaf gets about 22 kwh per 100km)



Even though there is enough battery for 100km I typically charge it at 50-60km , which is once every 2 or 3 days . It would take about 8hours to charge from fully flat , about 4 hours from 50% .

[VladTepes]

Hmm so obviously a bigger battery would mean more range but also more charge time presumably.

I guess that's the downside of that charger type. Using a setup that has 'fast charge' being more expensive and requiring a place to charge it (given the fast charge points are worth $100K I think)

The very expensive way of doing it being to buy a Nissan leaf and transfer the components across:
ELECTRIC HOLDEN TORANA E-A9X (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/electric-holden-torana-e-a9x)


You any good with computers? If so this may be of interest for the 'instruments' and car control stuff.
Teslonda: the Tesla / Honda powered by Raspberry Pi - The MagPi MagazineThe MagPi Magazine (https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/teslonda-tesla-honda-powered-raspberry-pi/)

[DiscoMick]

I see Hyundai's new Kona EV claims a 445km range so, even allowing for a bit of exaggeration, that's still pretty good.

[goingbush]

Hmm so obviously a bigger battery would mean more range but also more charge time presumably.

I guess that's the downside of that charger type. Using a setup that has 'fast charge' being more expensive and requiring a place to charge it (given the fast charge points are worth $100K I think)

The very expensive way of doing it being to buy a Nissan leaf and transfer the components across:
ELECTRIC HOLDEN TORANA E-A9X (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/electric-holden-torana-e-a9x)


You any good with computers? If so this may be of interest for the 'instruments' and car control stuff.
Teslonda: the Tesla / Honda powered by Raspberry Pi - The MagPi MagazineThe MagPi Magazine (https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/teslonda-tesla-honda-powered-raspberry-pi/)

Double the batteries = double the range, but simply install a readily available 6.6kw charger and 32Amp power outlet for same charger time , or a 3 phase charger .

Some conversions are done using Nissan Leaf motors & Electronics. You can buy a salvage Leaf & import it under 10K , a lot cheaper and better than my conversion.

London Electric Cars are planning a kit to enable Leaf components into a LandRover.

A Leaf motor unbolts from the transaxle and can be bolted direct to a Landy TC with appropriate adaptor and 2:1 planetary reduction box. (or keep gearbox)

Tesla motors are no good for Landy Conversions but great for VW or any other car you want to re-engineer for IRS . However Tesla batteries yes , very useful.

[VladTepes]

I'd have thought that putting 3-phase power to a residence just to charge a car suddenly makes that a very expensive uneconomic proposition.

Are you able to point me to more info on

simply install a readily available 6.6kw charger and 32Amp power outlet for same charger time please?


I've an urge (but not currently the money) to make an electric road car of an Aussie 70's Ford LTD.

[Homestar]

I'd have thought that putting 3-phase power to a residence just to charge a car suddenly makes that a very expensive uneconomic proposition.

Are you able to point me to more info on please?


I've an urge (but not currently the money) to make an electric road car of an Aussie 70's Ford LTD.

Don't stress the big charger if you're not going to use it very frequently and don't need quick turn around times. A 15 amp outlet in your garage will charge a vehicle overnight which would suit 99% of users. You could still do a rapid charge from a charging station while out and about, but most won't need to worry about this at home.

I'm still seriously considering converting my RRC to electric as well - just working out how long it would take me to save enough pennies to do it.

[goingbush]

I'd have thought that putting 3-phase power to a residence just to charge a car suddenly makes that a very expensive uneconomic proposition.

Are you able to point me to more info on please?


I've an urge (but not currently the money) to make an electric road car of an Aussie 70's Ford LTD.


Here is a link to Elcon TC Chargers, very good chargers. Mine is the 3.3kw (2nd picture) , The top picture is the 6.6Kw version.

ElCon High Frequency PFC Battery Chargers (http://www.elconchargers.com/index.html)

[DiscoMick]

Lots of people have three-phase power to their garages, particularly if they do welding.

[JDNSW]

And lots of areas with only one phase available - while I have no grid power, almost all the properties I know of round here only have one phase, with a small transformer near the house.

[Graeme]

Or not so near the house... Our transformer is near a shed so our PV system is there. I've setup a wireless switching system to switch on the electric hot water system in the house when there's enough power being generated to run the HWS without using grid power. The house is too far from the meter box and transformer to be mounted on the house due to too much voltage drop but the house is too shaded anyway to be worthwhile.

[DiscoMick]

Have you considered solar hot water? Ours cost about $4000.

[Graeme]

That would be a waste of money now but heating water wasn't a particular concern anyway as it was using off-peak power. As it happens 7kW would have been sufficient but the info provided by solar installers only referred to average production in our area whereas I now know that solar output better resembles an on/off switch - all or near enough to nothing. We could have installed less again and changed the heating element for a lower wattage one although at the time I didn't know that lower wattage elements were available. However a lower wattage element is still an option as it would allow more exported power in a day as we can't hit the 5kW limit while the water is heating, although it doesn't run for long except in winter when there's not much opportunity for more export.

Hmm, somewhat OT.

[gavinwibrow]

That would be a waste of money now but heating water wasn't a particular concern anyway as it was using off-peak power. As it happens 7kW would have been sufficient but the info provided by solar installers only referred to average production in our area whereas I now know that solar output better resembles an on/off switch - all or near enough to nothing. We could have installed less again and changed the heating element for a lower wattage one although at the time I didn't know that lower wattage elements were available. However a lower wattage element is still an option as it would allow more exported power in a day as we can't hit the 5kW limit while the water is heating, although it doesn't run for long except in winter when there's not much opportunity for more export.

Hmm, somewhat OT.

I guess you guys all know about what I have just learned ie electric heat pumps for hot water provision (bit like an a/c?)
They cost in the order of $4K before rebates, but can be timer set depending on your solar situation re REBS etc
Two recommended are Therman is Reece inhouse brand - the unit is a Rebadged Stiebel Eltron unit ex Germany, and Bosch.

[VladTepes]

Meanwhile this isn't a HWS thread...

Those chargers you linked to - they are for 15A power point are they?

[goingbush]

Meanwhile this isn't a HWS thread...

Those chargers you linked to - they are for 15A power point are they?

3.3kw @ 240V = 13.75Amps , so yes a 15Amp power point ,

6.6kw @ 240v = 27.5 Amps = a 32Amp outlet