Engine Oil 2.7 Diesel

[Journeytower]

I have a 2007 Disco 3 with the 2.7l Diesel. I'm wondering about using Castrol Magnatec 10W-40 as I can purchase this very cheaply when on special, like around $20 for five litres. This is the non synthetic non diesel specific but suitable for petrol & diesel motors. A Castrol technician said some time back that this is the oil that he uses in a multi valve diesel the same as I still have, a Hyundai Terracan 2.9 diesel engine. He just changes it at 5k intervals & saves the money. I've been using it in the Terracan for 140k now with 10k intervals & still performing well & no crankcase blowby, no leaks etc.
Has anyone been using a similar engine oil in the 2.7l Disco ?

[beetroot]

Not a Disco 3 owner, but hope to be soon and have read a lot about them and the TDV6.
I would be checking the owners manual and workshop manual, if you don't have them get them!

I believe that 5w-30 is the recommend weight and the advice from LR is not to deviate!
As there are known potential issues with the main bearings in the TDV6 I would be careful about going to a different oil than recommended, especial if the only reason is price!

I'd be wary of going to a 10w40 if 5w30 is what is recommend is Australia, as you may not have the protection if it gets cold.
Also beware that the oil weight isn't the only factor here, the CI specs, SN specs, additives and fully synthetic vs semi vs mineral are just as important as weight.
There is tonnes of reading about oil specs that'll keep you busy for hours.

5w30 is a pretty common oil these days (in New Zealand anyway) and I have often seen it on good sales at Repco and Super cheap (pretty sure most NZ oil comes from Australia).
I would only deviate from the recommended specs if I were going to a higher spec.

[beetroot]

Copied from DISCO3.co.uk

The specification of 5w30's is mainly around the additive package that goes into the blend, most now are low SAPS (Sulphated Ash Phosporus and Sulphur) this is to help keep the Cat or DPF clean, vehicle manufacturers adjust the specification to add different detergent packages that they think best for their engine.

Most of our handbooks say Castrol 5w30 this is the original fill and therefore the recommended, not essential but try to get to the original specification. For Castrol it would have been Magnatec because that was the oil of the day in 2004, today it is Edge, not recommended just because it didnt exist but it is a newer and superior specification.

Anyway just to bore the socks off you, the 5w30 is suitable for the UK climate but would not necessarily be so for other climates, this bit I have copied from elsewhere explains:

In a 10w-40 for example the 10w bit (W = winter, not weight or watt or anything else for that matter) simply means that the oil must have a certain maximum viscosity/flow at low temperature. The lower the “W” number the better the oils cold temperature/cold start performance.

The 40 in a 10w-40 simply means that the oil must fall within certain viscosity limits at 100 degC. This is a fixed limit and all oils that end in 40 must achieve these limits. Once again the lower the number the thinner the oil, a 30 oil is thinner than a 40 oil at 100 degC etc. Your handbook will specify whether a 30, 40 or 50 etc is required.

ACEA: This is the European equivalent of API (US) and is more specific in what the performance of the oil actually is. A = Petrol, B = Diesel and C = Catalyst compatible or low SAPS (Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur).

Unlike API the ACEA specs are split into performance/application catagories as follows:

A1 Fuel economy petrol
A2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
A3 High performance and/or extended drain
A4 Reserved for future use in certain direct injection engines
A5 Combines A1 fuel economy with A3 performance

B1 Fuel economy diesel
B2 Standard performance level (now obsolete)
B3 High performance and/or extended drain
B4 For direct injection car diesel engines
B5 Combines B1 fuel economy with B3/B4 performance

C1-04 Petrol and Light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 low SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C2-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible.
C3-04 Petrol and light duty Diesel engines, based on A5/B5-04 mid SAPS, two way catalyst compatible, Higher performance levels due to higher HTHS.

[Tombie]

Put simply - NO!

You’ll spin the crank bearings!!!

How cheap do you want to go on a $18k engine?

[DiscoJeffster]

I would recommend you find the Ford specification of the oil for your vehicle and stick to that oil. Penrite, Castrol, and many others do meet this specification. A 20L Penrite C4 Enviro which meets the specification of the 3.0L can be had for ~$200 as an example.
As Tombie mentions, it could end in disaster, and given the reported problems with bearings, I wouldn’t take the risk using non code-compliant oil.

[Tombie]

Not enviro in a 2.7

Penrite Full Syn 5W-30 is the go

[DiscoJeffster]

Not enviro in a 2.7

Penrite Full Syn 5W-30 is the go

Can you provide a link please? I cannot find a non-Enviro+ oil in their list that meets the needs.

[letherm]

Can you provide a link please? I cannot find a non-Enviro+ oil in their list that meets the needs.

Here's a link to Penrite. The oil Tombie suggests is on the right hand side. Click on it and you can select a "Where To Buy' Dialogue.

Penrite Oil | FULL SYNTHETIC 5W-30 (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/brands/everyday/full-synthetic-5w-30)

Martin

[DiscoJeffster]

Here's a link to Penrite. The oil Tombie suggests is on the right hand side. Click on it and you can select a "Where To Buy' Dialogue.

Penrite Oil | FULL SYNTHETIC 5W-30 (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/brands/everyday/full-synthetic-5w-30)

Martin

Ah, under Everyday oil. Sorry, my bad. Good to know this option exists as well.

[Tombie]

As per their recommendations:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/1084.jpg

[Tombie]

Reasonably priced for the protection offered!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/09/1083.jpg

[DiscoJeffster]

To be honest I found the Enviro+ C4 cheap which is backward compatible to non-dpf cars so I’ve been using that. This however is equivalent value and great news as it’s another product option. Thanks for that.

[Tombie]

You’re welcome - keep in mind that emissions requirements often mean lubrication is changed to comply...

Whilst backwards compatible, some additive packs are better than others [emoji6]

[scarry]

Or you can use Valvoline synpower FE 5w-30,as my indie does.

Also in smaller packs,5litre.
But 5.0l packs are a nuisance as the 2.7 takes around 5.5l,so the penrite in 6.0l packs is probably the better buy.

As others have said,ONLY use oil specified by the vehicle manufacturer,anything else is risky.

[rick130]

You’re welcome - keep in mind that emissions requirements often mean lubrication is changed to comply...

Whilst backwards compatible, some additive packs are better than others [emoji6]And some of the mid-SAPS oils add packs are better than the loaded ZDDP based add packs too.

The problem is it's almost impossible to know...

And I probably should've been responding to the bloke you responded to Mike!

[DazzaTD5]

If you do a search AULRO there is a HUGE amount of info with regards to "what oil in my X model Land Rover"

A disco 3 in oz is only a euro 4, no dpf
I use on customers disco 3's Penrite HPR DIESEL 5 5W40 Semi Synthetic.
Keep in mind none of the oils people have listed so far are actually a "full synthetic" again do a search lots of info on AULRO.

Regards
Daz

[101RRS]

Keep in mind none of the oils people have listed so far are actually a "full synthetic" again do a search lots of info on AULRO.

Regards
Daz

Please explain - the mentioned Penrite is full synthetic - I use the equivalent Nulon which is full synthetic.

If you are using s semi - synthetic oil, I would rethink that decision - oils for these engines must not be experimented with or you are likely to end up with spun bearings and a broken crank.

[DazzaTD5]

Please explain - the mentioned Penrite is full synthetic - I use the equivalent Nulon which is full synthetic.

If you are using s semi - synthetic oil, I would rethink that decision - oils for these engines must not be experimented with or you are likely to end up with spun bearings and a broken crank.

I'm unsure if thats a question directed at me or not?
I think I might be slightly qualified enough to make a judgment call on this.
BUT if we do just go and use a brands "oil guide" you will see that of the 4 oils that Penrite recommend, the HPR DIESEL 5 5W40 Semi Synthetic is one of them.
It also meets the FORD spec.
"full synthetic" is a marketing label, a play of words, its how they crack the crude oil molecule, unless its labeled PAO or ESTER based, then its not full synthetic, there is no other mystical product engine oil is made from.
Any of the oils listed will work fine.... as for spun bearings and broken cranks, absolute rubbish, thats a failing in design manufacturing and or poor assembly.

Regards
Daz

[101RRS]

Daz - I quoted you so was referring to you.

So what you are saying is that when Penrite and other companies advertise their oils as Full Synthentic it is false advertising and the authorities are supporting this by not taking them to task.

So if Full Synthetic oil is actually Semi Synthetic what is Semi Synthetic - full Mineral advertised as Semi Synthetic.

Based on your inside knowledge have you reported the oil companies to the ACCC etc for false advertsing?

Garry

[shanegtr]

The vast majority of "synthetic" oils are made from a class 3 base stock - which is a highly refined mineral oil thats almost at the same level as a Class 4 POA base stock. A 100% synthetic oil has downsides as well in that they have poor solubility to additive packs, which is why most would be a blend of class 3 and 4 base stocks.

Oh I forget all the details, but in regads to false advertising etc... I belive Mobil took Castrol to court in the US in the mid 90's as at the time Mobil 1 was the only true synthetic (most likely still is). Castrol won that case so the bar has been set

[rick130]

FWIW all the HD oils that meet ACEA E6/E9 for 100,000km oil change intervals (depending on used oil analysis) in over the road trucks are predominantly Group III Base oils, so they are pretty damned good
As Shane said the good Group III oils are near enough equivalent to most PAO's except at very low ambients, far lower than anything we see in Australia.

These days most all oils are blends to greater and lesser degrees.
Even highly touted full synthetics like Redline and Motul aren't straight POE bases, they have a certain % of PAO, and as Shane said, often the additive packs need a small % of mineral oil for solubility.

The old cliche of the sum of the parts is greater than the individual components is particularly true for oils.
The combined additive package is still probably more important than the base oils.
Think of most long haul trucks doing well past 1,000,000km before any major work is done on full mineral based oils at around 30,000km change intervals.

[DazzaTD5]

Daz - I quoted you so was referring to you.

So what you are saying is that when Penrite and other companies advertise their oils as Full Synthentic it is false advertising and the authorities are supporting this by not taking them to task.

So if Full Synthetic oil is actually Semi Synthetic what is Semi Synthetic - full Mineral advertised as Semi Synthetic.

Based on your inside knowledge have you reported the oil companies to the ACCC etc for false advertsing?

Garry
SOME USEFUL INFORMATION
"So if Full Synthetic oil is actually Semi Synthetic what is Semi Synthetic - full Mineral advertised as Semi Synthetic."

As already mentioned by others, most "full synthetic" "semi synthetic" "synthetic technology" engine oils are produced from group 3 base oil stock
Base oil: Base oil - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_oil)
Synthetic oil: Synthetic oil - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil)

More importantly....from wiki, but you will find similar wording and descriptions from trusted sources (as in not related to the Petroleum industry)
Some "synthetic" oil is made from Group III base stock, some from Group IV. Some from a blend of the two. Mobil sued Castrol and Castrol prevailed in showing that their Group III base stock oil was changed enough that it qualified as full synthetic. Since then API has removed all references to Synthetic in their documentation regarding standards. "Full synthetic" is a marketing term and is not a measurable quality.


THE BELOW IS MOSTLY BULL**** IMHO
"So what you are saying is that when Penrite and other companies advertise their oils as Full Synthentic it is false advertising and the authorities are supporting this by not taking them to task."
I made no reference to any particular oil refining company or oil blending company.
The "Authorities" who ever they may be, wordwide I guess? are likely to be irrelevant to the oil industry that is worth about 1.2 trillion U.S dollar per year.

"Based on your inside knowledge have you reported the oil companies to the ACCC etc for false advertsing?
I made no mention nor did I ever insinuate that I had some inside knowledge, I know nothing about the oil industry or oil chemistry.Do you honestly believe a 1.2 trillion US dollar a year industry even knows the ACCC exists??? (huh the who??)
To believe somehow the likes of the ACCC or any other "authority" has some mighty power and can bring down Thors hammer to corporation as they need is fantasy.

Regards
Daz

[DazzaTD5]

I have a 2007 Disco 3 with the 2.7l Diesel. I'm wondering about using Castrol Magnatec 10W-40 as I can purchase this very cheaply when on special, like around $20 for five litres. This is the non synthetic non diesel specific but suitable for petrol & diesel motors. A Castrol technician said some time back that this is the oil that he uses in a multi valve diesel the same as I still have, a Hyundai Terracan 2.9 diesel engine. He just changes it at 5k intervals & saves the money. I've been using it in the Terracan for 140k now with 10k intervals & still performing well & no crankcase blowby, no leaks etc.
Has anyone been using a similar engine oil in the 2.7l Disco ?

To get back and answer the OP...
*You may well find it to be fine, BUT the thing that turns me off with a lot of Castrol products is the lack of available tech information.
*I think its fair and reasonable to look for the Ford spec on a product (M2C913)

The basics of a 5W40 (multi grade) engine oil (very very simply explained, without getting into additive packs, polymers in the engine oil)
*When cold such as on engine start up will have good flow characteristics as a single weight SAE 5 engine oil. (5W is the winter grade)
*When hot or at that industry standard testing of 100 deg C will perform like a single weight SAE 40 engine oil.

*So a 5W40, 10W40, 15W40, 20W50 are all going to perform similar and offer similar protection when hot or at that 100 deg C testing point. (thats the last two digits)
*But at that oh so important cold engine start up where most engine wear occurs, the 5W40 is going to offer the best engine protection due to its better flow characteristics.
*The difference between a 5Wxx and a 10Wxx multi grade engine oil is likely to be not much if anything.
*On the opposite end a xW40 over a xW30 may well offer that little bit more protection at that 100 deg C testing temp.

Regards
Daz

[shanegtr]

Theres some interesting reading here - in particular what Dazza has already mentioned is that the API and SAE dont have or have removed definitions of what a synthetic oil is:
Synthetic Motor Oil (http://www.synlube.com/synthetic.htm)
Bear in mind its from a company who makes synthetic oil so just be aware to the marketing within the information