EGR blanking

[BrianElloy]

Guys is this worth doing to a stock TDV6 without tuning?

It’s a 2016 model

Saw this ad and I’m thinking about it http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/forrestdale/engine-engine-parts-transmission/land-rover-range-rover-tdv6-egr-blanking-kit/1163264300?utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=ios_social

Keen to hear thoughts

Peace,

Brian

[DiscoJeffster]

If you do this without the applicable ECU mod your car will error. It can tell you’ve blanked it. This only applies to early models without the ecu edit

[BrianElloy]

Don’t suppose there’s a setting in the GAP tool that can configure it off??

[DiscoJeffster]

Don’t suppose there’s a setting in the GAP tool that can configure it off??

I wish. No chance.

[PerthDisco]

So what’s the post MY2007 difference between the option of a) emulators and b) the Bell Auto Service option with a GAP tool patch provided.

The ultimate aim is to disable them and delete the cooling circuit from what I understand.

[Russrobe]

There's a patch for the Iid tool I have from Bell Auto via the gap site, although the results were inconclusive as on the bt iid tool the EGR values show up as N/A. So there's no way of telling if they're open or closed.

Even if there was a way of knowing what they were doing at idle, you would still need to know what's happening throughout the rev range, while driving...

[DiscoJeffster]

There's a patch for the Iid tool I have from Bell Auto via the gap site, although the results were inconclusive as on the bt iid tool the EGR values show up as N/A. So there's no way of telling if they're open or closed.

Even if there was a way of knowing what they were doing at idle, you would still need to know what's happening throughout the rev range, while driving...

What model do you have? I was told it was an ECU out job on my 2010 3.0L for anything like that.

[Russrobe]

What model do you have? I was told it was an ECU out job on my 2010 3.0L for anything like that.The 2.7 so could be different.

[DiscoJeffster]

The 2.7 so could be different.

Very as I understand it.

[Tombie]

Late 3.0 are ok to do in vehicle, 2.7s are all ok via OBD now, it’s the mid year range 3.0 that is bench mod

[DiscoJeffster]

Late 3.0 are ok to do in vehicle, 2.7s are all ok via OBD now, it’s the mid year range 3.0 that is bench mod

Poop. That’s my life.

[veebs]

I had mine done the other week, and confirm it's an ecu out bench job.

Still, no more invasive than changing the compressor or lower control arms etc, which get done without blinking an eye.

Not very diy-friendly though :-/

[DiscoJeffster]

I had mine done the other week, and confirm it's an ecu out bench job.

Still, no more invasive than changing the compressor or lower control arms etc, which get done without blinking an eye.

Not very diy-friendly though :-/

It’s the cost that sh1ts me. The last quote I had of $650 is too much to justify for just that.

[LRD414]

I had mine done the other week, and confirm it's an ecu out bench job.

Still, no more invasive than changing the compressor or lower control arms etc, which get done without blinking an eye.

Not very diy-friendly though :-/
Too tricky to attempt yourself?

Scott

[DiscoJeffster]

Too tricky to attempt yourself?

Scott

Doesn’t matter if you can DIY remove it. As we don’t have the kit to reprogram the ECU......

[veebs]

The kit reminded me of old hex editors I once used. When I did it, getting something wrong meant your computer program would crash. The penalty for failure in a Disco is substantially higher...

[DiscoJeffster]

The kit reminded me of old hex editors I once used. When I did it, getting something wrong meant your computer program would crash. The penalty for failure in a Disco is substantially higher...

Back in the 90’s I remember desoldering the EPROM from my vehicles ECU and running it through a hex editor. Had some tools to visualise the hex to view the various maps. Was a lot of fun. My friend moved commercially to modifying Holden ECUs to adapt them for different fuels etc. This was in the days when no one dabbled in such things.

Disco, yeah, I’ll stick to the OBD port these days.

[loanrangie]

I wonder if my xbox eeprom reader will work [bighmmm], its on my list but being an 07 build i should get away with just the blanking kit.
On blanking kits, they seem to vary quite a bit for $34 - $135 but essentially just some plates with o-rings ?

[LRD414]

Doesn’t matter if you can DIY remove it. As we don’t have the kit to reprogram the ECU......
As I understand it with BAS for my year (MY14), bench cables are needed for the customer to open and unlock the ECU on the bench, which then allows tuning via OBD. However the bench cables are not ready. Unfortunately I think this is a low priority for BAS, given that I have been in touch with them almost the whole year without progress. This is why I am interested in the ECU removal process and any difficulties associated.

Scott

[DiscoJeffster]

As I understand it with BAS for my year (MY14), bench cables are needed for the customer to open and unlock the ECU on the bench, which then allows tuning via OBD. However the bench cables are not ready. Unfortunately I think this is a low priority for BAS, given that I have been in touch with them almost the whole year without progress. This is why I am interested in the ECU removal process and any difficulties associated.

Scott

Yeah. I read something similar. Sucks!

[DiscoMick]

Makes it illegal of course, since it would fail an exhaust pollution test, but that's your choice.

[Tombie]

Makes it illegal of course, since it would fail an exhaust pollution test, but that's your choice.

Illegal - yes
Fail the pollution test - Nope [emoji6]

[101RRS]

Yes I agree would not fail standard emission test - as a general statement EGRs are closed at idle and under power and only open under trailing throttle when most of the naughty gases are produced. Yes there is more too it and the the above statement is only a general statement.

[Lukeis]

Would the link from the first post work on a 2011 d4, 2.7l?

this is something I’ve never considered (heard of!) but seems like a lot of good sense to do it.

The plates Appear to be a physical block I presume this is on the exhaust air coming back in, does that not out additional strain elsewhere to get the required airflow?

[DiscoMick]

Yes I agree would not fail standard emission test - as a general statement EGRs are closed at idle and under power and only open under trailing throttle when most of the naughty gases are produced. Yes there is more too it and the the above statement is only a general statement.
I understood the EGR is needed to pass the current exhaust test, which is why it it fitted. Is that not correct?

[101RRS]

I understood the EGR is needed to pass the current exhaust test, which is why it it fitted. Is that not correct?

Will pass a standard test for a roadworthy - for sure if doing a complex test like those required for vehicle certification on a rolling road in a scientific setting etc then no.

Ask someone from NSW where annual testing is done if they have failed their annual roadworthy because they have their D3 blanked.

[Tombie]

Would the link from the first post work on a 2011 d4, 2.7l?

this is something I’ve never considered (heard of!) but seems like a lot of good sense to do it.

The plates Appear to be a physical block I presume this is on the exhaust air coming back in, does that not out additional strain elsewhere to get the required airflow?

No. Won’t work on anything post D3 (and even some of the D3 will error).

I have a Same spec/year as yours Luke and mine are electronically programmed closed...

[Ean Austral]

Would the link from the first post work on a 2011 d4, 2.7l?

this is something I’ve never considered (heard of!) but seems like a lot of good sense to do it.

The plates Appear to be a physical block I presume this is on the exhaust air coming back in, does that not out additional strain elsewhere to get the required airflow?

I tried this on my 08 D3 , the kit basically blanks the 2 pipes that you see come from each EGR up to the Y piece on top of the engine. As Tombie has correctly said , it only works on some D3's and it seems only before 2007. Mine would be fine for a few days then it would just randomly throw up the engine fault . In the end I got sick of it happening so I removed them.


I know of 1 member who has disconnected the EGR's on the engine and has extended the plugs and has them sitting taped up in the engine bay , this makes the ECU see they are still connected but the gases are not getting put back into the engine.


Cheers Ean

[Tombie]

(Simple version) Later engines calculate flow based on EGRs being functional. Blanking them gives an out of range reading and causes a fault.

[loanrangie]

Would a quick test be to simply unplug them and see if it faults ?

[Ean Austral]

Would a quick test be to simply unplug them and see if it faults ?

When you blank them you leave the plugs connected ,you removed the pipes that feed back to the inlet side , then remove the butterfly so when the ECU tells the butterfly to close you don't blank of the inlet airflow , but the motor that turns the butterfly still works so the ECU thinks all is normal. Hope that makes sense ... you basically trick the ECU to think all is still connected except no exhaust gases can be recycled thru the engine.


If you were to un plug the EGR's my thoughts are it would fault straight away as the EGR would then not be working.

Cheers Ean

[101RRS]

If you blank 2.7s that are 06MY and earlier you will not have an issues.

If you blank a 2.7 that is 07MY (EU4) and later where the EGRs have failed you will get the EML light on but the engine does not go into limp mode. This is not because of any different gas flow through the engine but simply the ECU is not receiving the correct open/close signals from the EGRs and the fault comes up but engine performance is not restricted.

If the serviceable EGRs are connected to to wiring loom of a EU4 or later 2.7 that is blanked you will not get any faults or EML as the ECU is receiving the correct open/close signals from the EGRs. The EGRs act like emulators.

It is my car is the one referred to by Ean.

My EGRs failed 80,000km ago and I ordered new EGRs from the UK - if you shop around they are not all that expensive ($120 each LR new). I also bought a BAS blanking kit which I out on without changing the EGRs and tested a trial remap to remove the EGRs from the software but it was early days then and unlike now did not work.

So I was in the position of having to replace the EGRs - A procedure I did not fancy due to the PITA in removing etc. So thinking about it a bit more (and noting the EGRs on the engine were now blanked) I tried unplugging the old EGRs from the wiring loom and plugged in the new EGRs just sitting them on top of the engine cover. Cleared the codes and went for a drive - no EML and no codes after a 50km drive.

80,000km later I still have the old broken EGRs on the exhaust, the blanking plates in place, butterfly removed and the new EGRs mounted up in the ABS module space near the steering column - I just cut into the wiring loom near where the EGR connectors were and extended the loom - still no fault codes and no EML.

If I were to do it now I would probably blank and get the remap done as it now works. However it would still be cheaper to get new EGRs etc as I have done - if you shopped around for the EGRs but it would be a lot more mucking around.

So for later 2.7s - if you blank the engine will run OK but you will have the EML on without getting the patch done.

Garry

[DiscoMick]

I read somewhere that the EGR blank should have a small central hole so the airflow continues and it doesn't throw a fault. Is that right?

[Ean Austral]

I read somewhere that the EGR blank should have a small central hole so the airflow continues and it doesn't throw a fault. Is that right?

Cant see why , the idea is to get the gases to flow out the exhaust not into the engine bay .

Cheers Ean

[DiscoJeffster]

I read somewhere that the EGR blank should have a small central hole so the airflow continues and it doesn't throw a fault. Is that right?

So that’s the idea of the restriction plates you can get. They reduce the size of the hole to only about 5mm. This allows some flow supposedly registering it working, but reduces the amount of crud. Not perfect by any means but better I guess.

[101RRS]

I read somewhere that the EGR blank should have a small central hole so the airflow continues and it doesn't throw a fault. Is that right?

Maybe on other cars but not Discos etc - mine do not have any holes.

[Tombie]

Why would you bother to block them AND apply the patch [emoji41]

The patch closes the system, and adjusts how it looks for air flow...

[101RRS]

Why would you bother to block them AND apply the patch [emoji41]


Maybe the EGRs have already failed so are stuck open. [emoji41]

[DiscoJeffster]

Maybe the EGRs have already failed so are stuck open. [emoji41]

Then I’d expect you’ll get an error patch or not, as the commander position of butterfly ‘closed’ won’t be attained and will cause it to flag this. I base this on the information that they don’t disable the system, but change the parameters such that it never meets the requirements to open.
And I may be wrong [emoji4]

[remoman]

EGR's on all Discos? give these guys a call. They 'fixed' my EGR's and threw on a mild tune. Only drama was is was quite exy.

Dealers - Chip Tuning | DPF Solution | ECU Remapping - Australia - Quantum Tuning (http://www.quantumtuning.com.au/dealers.aspx)

[PerthDisco]

So is the consensus that the BAS blanking and ecu patch works for an MY08 2.7D?

[Tombie]

So is the consensus that the BAS blanking and ecu patch works for an MY08 2.7D?

Pre-07 for physical blanking

Post 07 you go ECU change and close it electronically.

[scarry]

Pre-07 for physical blanking

Post 07 you go ECU change and close it electronically.

Many,no matter what MY,D3 or 4, advise to blank even if electronically closed.

Their reasoning is,pretty easy to do,and how do you know they are actually closed?

These are guys that do it all the time,and have been caught out with them not working 100%,and not shutting off completely.

[rar110]

Emulators means I could unplug my EGRs in the MY08 tdv8. Very clean pipes these days.

[PerthDisco]

Post 07 you go ECU change and close it electronically.

Is this what emulators do or is there a simpler option without plugin devices under the bonnet? Sounds like there are many companies offering this?

[Tombie]

Many,no matter what MY,D3 or 4, advise to blank even if electronically closed.

Their reasoning is,pretty easy to do,and how do you know they are actually closed?

These are guys that do it all the time,and have been caught out with them not working 100%,and not shutting off completely.

Easy to check with the tool used to program...

If it’s closed, it’s closed... easy to verify...

[Lukeis]

Hi Tombie

who did yours? And how much did it cost? Would you recommend it?

thanks, Luke

[Tombie]

Hi Tombie

who did yours? And how much did it cost? Would you recommend it?

thanks, Luke

BAS did the work. Yes it was worth it..

I can’t remember the price, had a tune written also...

Loaded the EGR separately and noticeable..

[Lukeis]

BAS as in the uk co.? Does that mean you sent your ECU over to them?

Sorry im playing serious catch up on the whole EGR concept.

[Tombie]

BAS as in the uk co.? Does that mean you sent your ECU over to them?

Sorry im playing serious catch up on the whole EGR concept.

Had the tool here.... so just the file from BAS...

MY11 2.7 can be OBD programmed.

[LRD414]

MY11 2.7 can be OBD programmed.
And in recent correspondence from BAS I was advised that they are working towards the same with MY14 etc. However it takes time and has to be fitted in with other priorities so one needs to be patient.

Check out their website for what models can be done and what you can have (tune etc).

Scott

[Russrobe]

I found the EGR values.. I think. During this road test recording they get value change a total of 1.5% across the rev range =S is this normal? Or did the EGR patch work after all?https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/11/698.jpg

[Russrobe]

I followed this up with an e-mail from Pete at Bells Auto who confirmed my confusion in that i'm looking at the wrong value, with the commanded value being what we are looking for. This confirms mine has been successfully patched via the Gap BT IID Tool. Discovery 4 TDV6 2.7. Yellow line being commanded value doesn't change throughout a 5 minute drive, throughout the rev range.
132507

[veebs]

That's all well and good, but why is Joey in there?

[Russrobe]

That's all well and good, but why is Joey in there?Bahaha damn screen shots