Something suspicious in the starting department........

[Nomad9]

Hi there,
Sort of already know the answer to this one however just thought I would ask in case there is something else that could be at play. 4.4 V8 2005, auto. Over the last couple of days during starting the start has been a bit sluggish, last night out and about again sluggish. This morning nothing, metallic click nothing else, all the dash lights stay bright, turn the "auto lights" off and the car starts perfectly, car always starts with auto lights on because I am in the shadows of a car port.

Battery is 13 months old, I bought what I thought was a "top of the wozza" battery which I fear is not as far up the top as I had expected, at the moment I have this down as a battery on its way out. Could it be something else I am missing? Battery has a 24 month warranty so I think I'll start there.

Cheers Marty

[DiscoClax]

That does certainly sound like a battery with a weak cell IMHO. A multimeter should confirm that. If the voltage drops heavily under load that's often a sign of a dead or weak cell that's only holding a surface charge. When not overly stressed it will behave like a normal battery and measure like one. Any decent battery specialist supplier should be able to load test the battery for free.

This is assuming that the battery is getting fully charged (alternator OK? Driven long enough to replenish, etc?) and there are no unusual drains on the system.

[Nomad9]

Hi Discoclax,
This certainly sounds like the symptoms, I'm taking said vehicle to the "battery specialist" this afternoon, I have read some reviews on the Intimidator" battery, apparently not really that good in the warmth of an engine bay. The symptoms have only started showing themselves since the weather has warmed up a bit. I checked the alternator charge yesterday everything seems in order there.

Cheers Marty

[Nomad9]

Hi there,
Battery fine, with the auto lights off this morning the Rangie popped into life the same as normal. Had the battery load tested and everything else checked on the battery everything fine........ looks like it might have something to do with the auto lights department. Did notice one of the side lights isn't working this afternoon surely that can't have something to do with anything........... surely.

I also fitted the Gohh LED rear lights conversion a couple or three weeks ago, looks pretty cool, could this be contributing?

Cheers Marty.

[DiscoClax]

I had an Intimidator fail that way a few years back. Not blaming the battery as I abused it repeatedly and caused the failure. It effectively lost a cell under load so would drop under 10V but would be fine generally.
If the battery place did the test using one of the newer digital testers, they measure internal resistance rather than voltage under heavy load and may not show this issue. The old carbon pile ones are better for highlighting dead cells in the early stages as they'll pull over a hundred amps. At least that's my understanding.
I'd be surprised if your aftermarket lighting was causing this. They'd have to put a lot of load on the system to have much effect.
Recently my FIL was having issues sometimes starting his diesel 4x4. Switching the AC and fan off would be the difference between it not cranking and ot starting OK. That was a dead cell and a new AGM battery well and truly sorted it. He's done lots of corrugated roads so par for the course for a wet cell to die that way. Hopefully the AGM lasts a lot longer.

[Nomad9]

Hi DiscoClax,
He did more or less exactly what you have mentioned, right down to the digital load test meter, thanks for the feedback. I'm now using the light switch to control the lights and everything seems to be fine. I'll go through another test regime next week when I am off for the Xmas break and I'll se what happens then. Again thank you.

Cheers Marty

[DiscoClax]

From what you are describing it does seem most likely that the battery has carked it but is holding enough surface charge to work OK if not loaded heavily. The extra 15+ amps being puled by the lights is knocking it down to the point it doesn't want to crank properly. Which means you are on borrowed time - carry jumper leads and/or a booster.

A mate of mine put me on to this gadget recently - 12V Car Battery Monitor via bluetooth 4.0 Voltage Meter Tester w/ auto Alarm | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Car-Battery-Monitor-via-bluetooth-4-0-Voltage-Meter-Tester-w-auto-Alarm/142181724151'ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649) Being the boffin I am I just had to get it...

Amongst other party tricks it shows you the battery voltage across the terminals in real time, wirelessly to your phone. And can do a charging test at the tap of a button. During cranking it measures and records the voltage every 10ms (a hundred times a second). Refer attached pic for a result I got a few days ago on the very tired battery in my well-worn V70 showing that the battery is pulling down to much less than it should during a cranking event. This was after standing for only three days and being fully charged with an AC-DC smart charger at that time. It's also showing that my alternator is barely pushing 13.8V into the battery and that degrades to 13.5V after an hour's running as the alternator gets hot and loses performance. That is not enough to properly charge a battery, part of the reason it's dying... The car has done nearly 400k kms so it's allowed to have a couple of minor issues. All I've done is replace the brushes, and that improved things, but not enough.

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Best of luck. Hopefully they'll stump up a new battery to replace the current one under warranty.

P.S. How are you finding the Glohh conversion? Latest GL3 (dynamic) type? How good are the reverse lights and how visible are the lights generally compared with standard? Money well-spent, or bit of a luxury easily avoided? :P

[Nomad9]

Hi Discoclax,
Got one of these and fitted it yesterday, what an awesome piece of gear this is, works wonders, so much information at your finger tips, great suggestion, thank you. Haven't actually found anything wrong yet however if I do have a problem at least I have the evidence now.

Cheers Marty

[DiscoClax]

Hi Marty. Glad to hear you are finding it of use. I certainly like mine. I'm thinking of getting a second one for the D1.

P.S. How are you finding the Glohh conversion? Latest GL3 (dynamic) type? How good are the reverse lights and how visible are the lights generally compared with standard? Money well-spent, or bit of a luxury easily avoided? 😛

[Nomad9]

I find the side light elements are a bit overly bright in comparison to the brake lights however the brake lights are brighter an no one has hit me yet. The reverse lights aren’t as bright as the standard lights however still work and are bright enough to work with. The indicators are a real novelty and to me seemed a bit small however are advertised as legal so that’s good enough.
One of my brake light lenses had been overheated and had clouded over so I was up for a new light anyway, that was my excuse anyway. Improving fuel consumption as a selling feature was pushing it a bit however they look great. One guy even complimented me on them at the traffic lights actually that instantly justified the expenditure [emoji1][emoji1].

Cheers Marty

[DiscoClax]

My thinking was if I needed to replace one or both then I could just about justify it if they worked well, but struggling to if everything existing works. Much like you, I suspect from your response. I did note that they had e-mark cert and that's a rare thing so that made them worth looking at further. Supplementary reverse lighting isn't hard to do if the rest works well. Thanks for the feedback Marty :)

[drivesafe]

From what you are describing it does seem most likely that the battery has carked it but is holding enough surface charge to work OK if not loaded heavily. The extra 15+ amps being puled by the lights is knocking it down to the point it doesn't want to crank properly. Which means you are on borrowed time - carry jumper leads and/or a booster.

A mate of mine put me on to this gadget recently - 12V Car Battery Monitor via bluetooth 4.0 Voltage Meter Tester w/ auto Alarm | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-Car-Battery-Monitor-via-bluetooth-4-0-Voltage-Meter-Tester-w-auto-Alarm/142181724151'ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649) Being the boffin I am I just had to get it...

Amongst other party tricks it shows you the battery voltage across the terminals in real time, wirelessly to your phone. And can do a charging test at the tap of a button. During cranking it measures and records the voltage every 10ms (a hundred times a second). Refer attached pic for a result I got a few days ago on the very tired battery in my well-worn V70 showing that the battery is pulling down to much less than it should during a cranking event. This was after standing for only three days and being fully charged with an AC-DC smart charger at that time. It's also showing that my alternator is barely pushing 13.8V into the battery and that degrades to 13.5V after an hour's running as the alternator gets hot and loses performance. That is not enough to properly charge a battery, part of the reason it's dying... The car has done nearly 400k kms so it's allowed to have a couple of minor issues. All I've done is replace the brushes, and that improved things, but not enough.

133554

133553

133555

Best of luck. Hopefully they'll stump up a new battery to replace the current one under warranty.

P.S. How are you finding the Glohh conversion? Latest GL3 (dynamic) type? How good are the reverse lights and how visible are the lights generally compared with standard? Money well-spent, or bit of a luxury easily avoided? :P


Hi folks, I now carry the BM2 battery monitors and here is a link to my VERANDAH thread.

BM2 Bluetooth Battery Voltage Monitors (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/the-verandah/261576-bm2-bluetooth-battery-voltage-monitors.html)