Alternator — preventative servicing

[iannicki]

In a few different threads recently, people have mentioned preventative servicing, via replacement, of the alternator. I thought I would start a new post to see if there is a general agreement on this and when it should be done. If so, it seems like a good addition to the 'sticky' on Key Items for Servicing.

[shanegtr]

I think it can be a good idea, but would depend on where you live and where you take your D3/4. If it never leaves a city environment then I'd just wait for it to fail as the cost to tow isn't a biggie. But if like me you live in a remote area then a failure would be a major drama so replacement would be a good idea. Question then is whats a good age to replace it?

[veebs]

...and is there any hint when it's starting to fail?

[DiscoJeffster]

I pulled mine down at 250,000km and the brushes were only half worn, so it’s more likely a diode failure which is at a random interval.

[justinc]

I recommend 150k interval. This is based on years of experience with these engines/ alternators. I would say that rectifier failure or stator shorts to earth seem to be the common cause of death. Some pretty dramatic, too😅

[Ean Austral]

I recently read a thread on the disco 3 UK site where there is a "How to" overhaul your alternator , I am not sure if the parts are available readily in Australia or what the costs are compared to a new one. Would be keen to do the exercise on the costs to overhaul it.

I bought a new spare not long after buying the car , so will likely wait till it fails then just change it.

Cheers Ean

[DiscoMick]

I had the alternator on our D1 overhauled at about 180,000 after it started playing up. It was a while ago and I can't remember the details, but from memory the work included new brushes.
I have heard of people having crud cleaned out of their alternators.
An alternator is such an essential thing that you wouldn't want to skimp on it.

[Fatso]

Changed mine ay 160k , kept old one as a spare .

[Tombie]

Just remember that ELF are not that uncommon. So you could be removing a unit that is stable to replace with a new faulty unit or one that fails in short order!

[Ean Austral]

hopefully this works

https://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/11480/Replacing2_the_Diode_Pack_on_A_Denso_Alternator.pd f

Cheers Ean

[DiscoMick]

Just remember that ELF are not that uncommon. So you could be removing a unit that is stable to replace with a new faulty unit or one that fails in short order!
OK I'll stick my neck out and bite. I assume ELF doesn't mean a solar electric bicycle?
So is it electric faults?

[Tombie]

Early Life Failure

[DiscoClax]

Does this apply equally or similarly to the TDV8 L320s? I understand the L320 environment is harsher than on L319s hence their highest failure rate?

[101RRS]

Mine failed about 3 weeks ago - 139,000km. Drove the car in the evening and no indication of any issue. The next morning I started the car - no issues and about 300m later I noticed the battery light was on - about another km or so the cascading faults began even with battery voltage up around 12.8v but was still able to drive 40km to visit an indy and back home with various faults coming and going - wasn't fun.

Replaced the alternator the next day - all fixed.

So alternator can fail with no advance warning - even with a good battery. However with alternator pricing between $500 to $1200 it is not something I would consider routine changing - however if going extended remote I might consider changing and taking the old one as a spare as it could be changed on the roadside - or buy the new one and keep it in your spares.

Garry

[DiscoJeffster]

I got a Denso replacement for £170 plus shipping so around AU$350.

[101RRS]

All well and good if you have the time to wait around but if you need your car well you need to buy local.

[DiscoJeffster]

All well and good if you have the time to wait around but if you need your car well you need to buy local.

Hence preemptive replacement as I did doesn’t have to cost the earth and can be done on your terms and on a budget.
So based on that, it might actually pay to preemptively replace it.

[101RRS]

Then what about the water pump? the A/C compressor? the power steering pump? the idler pulley and the tensioner, then wheel bearings and it goes on.

I think on a day to day basis no need but I do agree if planning on a remote trip then for sure - consideration of the condition of all the above and the alternator should be done. If you have over 100,000km on your alternator then for sure carry a spare as it only takes about an hour to change with basic tools and a fan tool ($35 from a tool shop) and if it happens change it out then.

[DiscoJeffster]

Then what about the water pump? the A/C compressor? the power steering pump? the idler pulley and the tensioner, then wheel bearings and it goes on.

I think on a day to day basis no need but I do agree if planning on a remote trip then for sure - consideration of the condition of all the above and the alternator should be done. If you have over 100,000km on your alternator then for sure carry a spare as it only takes about an hour to change with basic tools and a fan tool ($35 from a tool shop) and if it happens change it out then.

I wish mine had only taken an hour. 3 hours later and I was still cursing, trying to get the power cable off and on again.
And yes, I just replaced my water pump when doing the coolant service as well as the top outlet known to fail. I guess as opportunities present them I have preventively maintained it for known issues. Agree, where does it end? I guess I’ve looked at the common issues and dealt with them before they have become a trailer trip.

[veebs]

OK I'll stick my neck out and bite. I assume ELF doesn't mean a solar electric bicycle?
So is it electric faults?

Thanks for asking - I assumed he was talking about an excellent Will Ferrell movie...

[kreecha]

Then what about the water pump? the A/C compressor? the power steering pump? the idler pulley and the tensioner, then wheel bearings

Bearing in mind material failures which are inevitable and uncontrollable (ELF as Tombie calls it), the answer to your question is personal and is predominantly dependant upon ones own perspective when doing the following cost benefit analysis;
Cost (time and monetary) of preventative maintenance, vs
Cost (time and monetary) of reactive maintenance.

To address OP;
Looks like I’m replacing the engine in my D3 @ 224,000km’s. I bought it from the original owner and I have no receipts for a replacement alternator. So it’s getting replaced.

In response to garrycol. I’ll also be replacing radiator, lower cooling matrix and a couple of other things including torque converter. My CBA says preventative maintenance is cheaper than reactive maintenance. Primarily because preventative maintenance affords time and thus cheaper sourcing of spares.

Maybe you need to keep some spares in the shed garrycol?

[101RRS]

I wish mine had only taken an hour. 3 hours later and I was still cursing, trying to get the power cable off and on again.

Apparently the LR time schedule lists the time to change the alternator as 40min [thumbsupbig].

The trick is to leave the cables attached until the alternator is free of the engine and pulled out a little - then gives access to the nut holding on the power cable - same when refitting, connect the cables before the alternator is bolted to the engine.

The main issue I has was getting the alternator out and back in past the coolant pipes without damaging them.

Garry

[jh972]

Alternator failure would not normally be an urgent problem (battery would just go slowly flat) but in the D3 it fails to direct short, and can flatten battery very quickly. Worse, lead from alternator is common to starter so is very heavy lead with no fuse.
I have read somewhere that someone was supplying a fused alternator lead which you would use and remove the link to the starter cable.
alternator failure = blown fuse = no immediate problem. You could still jump start the car & drive safely.

[Tombie]

A D3 with a failed alternator (even if fused) will run for about 15 minutes before cascading errors and shutdown!

Please explain how you have the following scenario:
- Jump start
- Driven safely

This scenario can not happen...

[andrew53]

In a few different threads recently, people have mentioned preventative servicing, via replacement, of the alternator. I thought I would start a new post to see if there is a general agreement on this and when it should be done. If so, it seems like a good addition to the 'sticky' on Key Items for Servicing.


I bought a good low k secondhand alternator and just have it in my car with other emergency spares for off road. Any problems I would change it on the track.

[101RRS]

A D3 with a failed alternator (even if fused) will run for about 15 minutes before cascading errors and shutdown!

Please explain how you have the following scenario:
- Jump start
- Driven safely

This scenario can not happen...

Having recently been through this I can support what Tombie has said - but he is optimistic about the 15 minutes before cascading errors and shutdown - it is about 5 minutes even with battery voltage at 12.8v. Cascading errors are horrific - I didn't get the engine shutdown I guess due to high battery voltage - if it had shut down I might have got it going again with a jump start but the cascading errors would still be there - doors locking unlocking, temps gauge and lights on HOT, no tacho, EPB failure, F on the gearbox and stuck in 2nd, no tfr case, suspension indications on the bump stops but was still at onroad height - it goes on and on.

Drive safely no way.

Even when battery voltage is high, the ECUs obviously need high alternator voltage also to enable communications though the Canbus system - I had acceptable battery voltages but the car would still not work correctly with no alternator voltage as well. I drove over 40km with a dead alternator and when I got home I was stuck in second with a max speed of about 40kph - battery after the 40km had only dropped from 12.8 to 12.6 but the cascading errors were impacting just about all aspects of the car.

New alternator with the battery still at 12.6 and all faults immediately bar one disappeared - one switch off and back on and then all gone.

Garry

[Nathan1975]

my discovery 3 2009 failed at 148000k

[IvanR]

A D3 with a failed alternator (even if fused) will run for about 15 minutes before cascading errors and shutdown!

This was not my experience when my D3 alternator failed. After disconnecting it I was able to travel for 2 1/2 to 3 hours to Karratha from Millstream with no dramas. May have been helped by 2nd battery in the D3 and a 3rd in the camper.
Also spent a fair bit of time driving around town looking for assitance and booking into caravan park.

Ivan

[jh972]

A D3 with a failed alternator (even if fused) will run for about 15 minutes before cascading errors and shutdown!

Please explain how you have the following scenario:
- Jump start
- Driven safely

This scenario can not happen...

Not my experience either. I drove with a dead short and cable smoking for 40 min after alternator light came on and before cascading errors stopped the engine. ( No, I didn't know cable was overheated until I stopped). It follows that if the alternator was isolated (by a fuse) I could have gone much longer, I would have thought.
in any case, good to have a fused alternator to prevent cable damage.

[iannicki]

Just a quick thanks to everyone who is contributing. As the thread is still pretty active, I am still monitoring before summarising for the sticky. Thoughts so far:

1. If you are thinking of preventative maintenance, 150K is about the mark.

2. As with all preventative maintenance, it is a matter of balancing cost, consequences, where you drive, own mechanical knowledge etc (ie, a risk assessment).

3. If your alternator is still working when replaced, think about keeping it as a travel spare.

[flotty1974]

I got a Denso replacement for £170 plus shipping so around AU$350.
Is that for a 2.7 or 3lt? And from who?

[Roadrunner230]

I recommend 150k interval. This is based on years of experience with these engines/ alternators. I would say that rectifier failure or stator shorts to earth seem to be the common cause of death. Some pretty dramatic, too😅

The biggest problem I seem to have is not so much the alt but the vacuum pump failing. These units don't seem to be able to buy parts for. I have a complete unit minus the van parts.

[DiscoJeffster]

In all honesty, why would you carry an alternator as a spare when they’re lasting 150,000km? I mean really? If you’ve replaced it you’d be pretty unlucky for it to fail before 300,000km. Surely far better spares to be carrying

[justinc]

The biggest problem I seem to have is not so much the alt but the vacuum pump failing. These units don't seem to be able to buy parts for. I have a complete unit minus the van parts.

No vac pump on d3 alts thank goodness 😣

[justinc]

In all honesty, why would you carry an alternator as a spare when they’re lasting 150,000km? I mean really? If you’ve replaced it you’d be pretty unlucky for it to fail before 300,000km. Surely far better spares to be carrying

Yup.

"How the heck did i break that axle??"

" must be the weight of the spares you are carryiing, including the spare axles sir....."

😅

[PerthDisco]

In all honesty, why would you carry an alternator as a spare when they’re lasting 150,000km? I mean really? If you’ve replaced it you’d be pretty unlucky for it to fail before 300,000km. Surely far better spares to be carrying

Perhaps something like this rig for a big trip. Sleep in the second car and all the spares are right there for a big trip [emoji23]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/02/266.jpg

[Tombie]

I find at about 150k if you replace the:
Alternator
Injectors
Brakes
Tyres
Engine
Gearbox
Chassis
Body
Interior

With a completely new vehicle; then you’re likely to be good for another 150k

[justinc]

I find at about 150k if you replace the:
Alternator
Injectors
Brakes
Tyres
Engine
Gearbox
Chassis
Body
Interior

With a completely new vehicle; then you’re likely to be good for another 150k

^^^^😅😅😅

[Fatso]

Yup.

"How the heck did i break that axle??"

" must be the weight of the spares you are carryiing, including the spare axles sir....."

😅

Yup , Along with roo bars , winches , roof racks , underbody protection , spot lights , extra spare wheel............[bigrolf][bigrolf]

[Tombie]

Yup , Along with roo bars , winches , roof racks , underbody protection , spot lights , extra spare wheel............[bigrolf][bigrolf]

Yep. Most successful and stress free vehicles on our trips have been the least modified ones.