Am I crazy, it ok you won't offend me

[Peter O]

I am new in this section as I usually ferret around in the Series pages but I have some questions you P38 owners may be able to answer.
After many years with a 1990 RR classic (I fitted a new 4.6 short motor and used my 3.9 heads and injection) we went to other vehicles and the Classic has been used as a farm truck. Recently I found a P 38 that has sat in a shed (slipped liner) for 4 years and is now for sale.
Aside from the dead engine and has been converted to coils, the rest of the car is very clean and looks pretty much untouched. Its build date is in 1999 so its running a 4.6 and had gas fitted [bighmmm].

My question is would it be worth buying and fitting my 4.6 short to the P38. Everything is there from the air suspension except the air bags but the air manifold leaks apparently. Are these cars suitable projects or are the parts still so expensive and difficult to source as to be better left alone and leave the motor in the paddock bashing classic.

[Tins]

I guess it comes down to the asking price for the P38A. However, if that is reasonable then I'd say go for it. What can possibly go wrong?[bigwhistle]

[Peter O]

I guess it comes down to the asking price for the P38A. However, if that is reasonable then I'd say go for it. What can possibly go wrong?[bigwhistle]


I was hoping you would tell me [biggrin] As for the asking price I have no idea whats reasonable for a car with a dead engine but he was apparently quoted 5500 for a replacement + fitting and that seems to have bluffed him.
What sort of $ are involved with doing the 4.6 heads over other stuff to fit my 4.6 short. I can do the work easily enough, its just time, but its finding parts and the electrics that worry me.
Its recently (km) had injectors done and I would want to get rid of all the LPG crap.

[bee utey]

I was hoping you would tell me [biggrin] As for the asking price I have no idea whats reasonable for a car with a dead engine but he was apparently quoted 5500 for a replacement + fitting and that seems to have bluffed him.
What sort of $ are involved with doing the 4.6 heads over other stuff to fit my 4.6 short. I can do the work easily enough, its just time, but its finding parts and the electrics that worry me.
Its recently (km) had injectors done and I would want to get rid of all the LPG crap.

The car is worth $1K tops if it's otherwise in very good nick. To fit your engine, you need to change the inlet manifold and injection, front timing cover, sump, rocker covers and the camshaft, lifters and timing chain. The heads are the same as yours (maybe an accessory bolt hole or two different) so leave them on the engine. Gaskets would cost you around $100 and the labour would be yours to put in. The only curly question would be if your engine has had the crankshaft sensor mounting destroyed, it is tack welded on I believe. There may be differences between early and late 4.6 blocks too in the crank sensor mounting area.

[Tins]

The car is worth $1K tops if it's otherwise in very good nick. To fit your engine, you need to change the inlet manifold and injection, front timing cover, sump, rocker covers and the camshaft, lifters and timing chain. The heads are the same as yours (maybe an accessory bolt hole or two different) so leave them on the engine. Gaskets would cost you around $100 and the labour would be yours to put in. The only curly question would be if your engine has had the crankshaft sensor mounting destroyed, it is tack welded on I believe. There may be differences between early and late 4.6 blocks too in the crank sensor mounting area..

Sound advice as usual. I might have said $1500 for the car. You can get good(?) ones for $4K if you look. Personally, I'd buy it and put an LS1 in it.

[Peter O]

Thanks for the info bee utey that is some of what I needed to know. I have some recollection of the sensor mount but cannot remember what I had to do to fit it to the classic, if anything at all. I will go have a look as I seem to recall it being down the side of the block.
I thought my 3.9 heads would have had smaller ports and not fitted the inlet manifold [thumbsupbig]

Oh and he wants way more than 1k

[Tins]

Oh and he wants way more than 1k

In the immortal words of Darryl Kerrigan, tell him he's dreamin'...

[bee utey]

.

Sound advice as usual. I might have said $1500 for the car. You can get good(?) ones for $4K if you look. Personally, I'd buy it and put an LS1 in it.

I agree a LS1 is an excellent idea, but it's going to cost a wee bit more than an already owned 4.6. An update P38 might indeed be worth $1500, it all depends on what's still working. There are so many unique electronic bits to fail on them I'd be going over it with a fine toothed comb before shelling out the readies. They're so completely different to your ol' low electronic Classic Rangie.

[bee utey]

Thanks for the info bee utey that is some of what I needed to know. I have some recollection of the sensor mount but cannot remember what I had to do to fit it to the classic, if anything at all. I will go have a look as I seem to recall it being down the side of the block.
I thought my 3.9 heads would have had smaller ports and not fitted the inlet manifold [thumbsupbig]

Oh and he wants way more than 1k

You don't actually need to do anything to the sensor mount to fit a 4.6 to a Classic, it's in the back flange of the block low down on the passenger side. It's just that the ones I've seen have had the mount removed and plugged with a chunk of alloy for neatness' sake.

Heads are pretty much identical, 3.9 heads come in two slightly different flavours depending on the year, but early ones can have certain holes drilled and tapped to match the later 3.9 and P38 fittings.

[justinc]

99 is it a thor or gems still? Is your 4.6 a gems or thor block. Crank sensors are in different positions

[Tins]

There are so many unique electronic bits to fail on them I'd be going over it with a fine toothed comb before shelling out the readies. They're so completely different to your ol' low electronic Classic Rangie.

Indeed. To think that D2 owners still have issues with TC and HDC. The P38A was in a league of it's own for closing your eyes and diving into the world of electronics.

[prelude]

Not one to want to swear in church :) however...

A good LOOKING P38 might still be a handfull. I bought my 1998 autobiography with just 140K on the clock in november of 2015. Good looking, low mileage and even the engine was (seemed) in good shape. I have taken it onto very rough tracks and I have upgraded quite a few bits along the way but all in all (including buying the car itself) I have spent 20K on the damn thing [bigwhistle]

Before I got into this adventure I was aware of the stellar reliability stories of landrovers but I thought they were simply the best thing to have :) Now, if I strip away all the extra's that I spent, I think total spending comes down to 5k. For a car that has been sitting around for so long quite a few things may have gone wrong. The electrics could be in proper shape unless caps have dried out. I reckon you can simply plug a good battery in there and try out most of the electrical funtions.

On my car, most things that have gone wrong, and I am sorry to say that there were a lot, almost all were simply worn due to age or expedited wear due to my offroading :). Speakers simply deteriorate in the doors over time due to heat, vacuum hoses for the cruise control likewise. The blend motors of the hevac unit are suspect and most likely will need work. BECM, ECU, EAS, ABS/TC are pretty reliable computers and don't break often if ever afaik. Cruise control on GEMS do, the BOSCH units are far more reliable. hevac is a mixed bag. The head unit usually does not break but the display can go bad.

In order to restore the air suspension I would factor in that you'd need to be doing a complete overhaul: compressor and valveblock rebuild, possibly some new hoses, 4 new airbags (go with arnott gen III) Since you take the motor out anyway, working on the car becomes so much easier I would suggest you do it all in one go, if you have the budget. Also, if it is a GEMS I would suggest very firmly you rebuild the ETC unit to ensure safe breaking.

All in all, if you have the time and money to do the needed work on a P38, they are one of the best 4x4's by far imho. Just new enough to have a lot of comfort, just old enough to have solid axles and solid performance (not to mention looks!) 1500 would be my top offer though since I know by know what to expect...

-P

[PLR]

G`day Peter O ,

basic stuff that has been overlooked by those advising you .


A 1990 Range Rover uses multiple V belts a 1999 Range Rover uses a single serpentine belt .

A 1990 RR uses 14 bolt heads , the 1999 uses 10 bolt heads .

Part of the difference is the capacity of the combustion chambers the 1990 are greater and the 1999 are less meaning adjustments need to be made to achieve the correct compression ratio .

The 14 bolt heads as you know will easily adapt to your 1990 using a 4.6 block as will the 10 bolt heads with only some adjustment for larger bolt diameters for the ancillaries so no problem drill some holes larger .

The main problem in trying to use your 14 bolt 3.9 heads in a P38a is that the heads lack any where to place 2 required bolts steering res and alt .

It`s not a matter of drilling and taping a hole there is no metal to do this , when the 14 bolt heads were cast they were made differently to the later 10 bolt heads or visa versa and to make 14 bolt heads work with single serpentine belt set up you will have to make special brackets .

So it would be your choice to make brackets for the 14 bolt 1990 heads and adjust the comp ratio or bolt up the 10 bolt 1999 heads .


Cheers

[Eevo]

.
Personally, I'd buy it and put an LS1 in it.

i really dont understand people obsession with ls1's...

on a more serious note.
i enjoyed the p38 i had for 12-18 months but the maintenance on them is high.
if i was a mechanic or had any skill in fixing things and the money to fix things. i would love to keep it and doing it up. i'll have to wait til i win the lottery.

putting in an ls1 will solve one of the big issues. a reliable engine for a reasonably high upfront cost. (dont get me wrong, i love the 4.6 but they are not a new engine). but you still have the rest of the car to go. suspension, audio, etc etc as covered by earlier posts.

[Peter O]

Lots to think about in those posts, thank you everyone. I bought my 4.6 block through an agent from England in about 2005 or 6, I cant remember but I think it would be a GEMS block as they needed the vin to make sure it would fit my heads and accessories and it all bolted together easy at the time.
I would use the existing heads of the P38 if I could and just disconnect all the LPG stuff and remove the tank from the spare wheel well.

I am partial to the LS1 but it would require adapters and a lot of rewiring and conversion to get all the instruments to work again. After having a chev 6.2 smoker in a land cruiser I am not sure I want to go down that road again.

From what I saw everything worked electrics wise but that's not surprising as it was shedded the whole time and looks very clean and fresh on the connections I could see.

I guess it all comes down to him accepting a much lower price and me committing to go down the Range Rover road again, apart from a few broken diffs and an accumulator pump I never had much trouble with the old Vogue. I only changed the engine to gain power. Some of the stories on here seem to make the P38 look like a basket case hence the thread title.

[Keithy P38]

You’d expect to see the “issues” and “basket cases” on social forums though, that’s most of the reason forums for vehicles exist!

What you don’t hear about most of the time and the ones that are running well! And I’ll put my hand up as one of those owners.

If you get it at the right price, provided you keep a good battery and regular services up to it, the P38 is an extremely reliable steed.

Cheers
Keithy

[Tins]

i really dont understand people obsession with ls1's...



No obsession. Just they are everywhere, and are cheap, and I've been in a P38A with one in and it was pretty darned good.

I've never been a Chev fan, so calling me obsessed is a bit of a stretch.

[Eevo]

No obsession. Just they are everywhere, and are cheap, and I've been in a P38A with one in and it was pretty darned good.

I've never been a Chev fan, so calling me obsessed is a bit of a stretch.


your talking to guy who put an ls1 into his d2 :p

[andrew53]

I am new in this section as I usually ferret around in the Series pages but I have some questions you P38 owners may be able to answer.
After many years with a 1990 RR classic (I fitted a new 4.6 short motor and used my 3.9 heads and injection) we went to other vehicles and the Classic has been used as a farm truck. Recently I found a P 38 that has sat in a shed (slipped liner) for 4 years and is now for sale.
Aside from the dead engine and has been converted to coils, the rest of the car is very clean and looks pretty much untouched. Its build date is in 1999 so its running a 4.6 and had gas fitted [bighmmm].

My question is would it be worth buying and fitting my 4.6 short to the P38. Everything is there from the air suspension except the air bags but the air manifold leaks apparently. Are these cars suitable projects or are the parts still so expensive and difficult to source as to be better left alone and leave the motor in the paddock bashing classic.

Only my opinion : I have a p38 owned it 6 years and has been a good reliable car but I have maintained it well and it is on coils due to the eas faults that can come even if you look after it and the coils are better in my opinion. You could put your 4.6 into the p38 if it is the same Gems or Thor. If it is different then the loom will have to go with it and pairing it all up will be questions you will need to ask from someone who is a Landy mechanic. Parts are quite easy to find in Australia and like any car parts have various prices. They are a good car off road but not the sort of car if you want to use it like they drive on 4wd Action as they have computers under each seat and a car full of water will end your day. Like any car you buy you will spend some on it to get it to where you want it to be but they are a good tourer and very capable off road. Slipped liners only happen when the car has been overheated so it might need a bit of work on the cooling system by the looks of it. Ask a professional first to be sure it will work out for you first and when I first got mine like any car you have to get to know it but when you do they are pretty simple to work on. I have mine on 2 inch lifted coils, winch bla bla and in a few weeks driving from Perth to Vic for some touring and ventures into the high country. Hope this helps