Which rear Hub?

[Jcrowe69]

Hi All,
I finally got my S1 registered last month, full NSW rego and already have done over 1000 miles just running around, it was last registered in 1991 as JOC 330 and if anyone has any info about its history it would be much appreciated.
Anyhow as to be expected a few niggles have surfaced and the rear hub is the current issue, it has a fully floating shaft rear axle and when I bought it there where only 5 bolts in it as the sixth had a broken stud in it, got that out with an easy out and put the correct bolt in. After running around it started leaking oil and when I pulled the bolts, 5 of the 6 where snapped! I got two out by drilling and using the easy out, then the drill bit snapped and now I think the hub is stuffed.
After looking at the manual and seeing what I had, I have a spacer half inch wide between the hub and driving member, so the right bolts are actually half an inch too short!!
Does any one know if this is a standard S1 rear axle and the spacer is something to use later axles shafts? Once we solve this mystery, does anyone have a rear hub assembly sitting around as I've stuffed mine!!
I've attached a couple of pic's....
Cheers
Jason

[chazza]

I think the spacer indicates that the axle is from a S2, the S1 half-shaft being shorter; the short bolts explains why they snapped.

Why do you think that the hub is U/S? You should be able to turn the broken stud with the drill bit in it, with a sharp centre punch and hammer. Hold the hub in a vice and strike anti-clockwise around the periphery of the stud; this should work seeing how oily it has been,

Cheers Charlie

[101RRS]

Series 1s did not have fully floating shaft rear axles.

To aid changing axles more easily some people put in fully floating shaft rear axles from later series vehicles. This allows the use of series axles which are longer than series 1 axles - hence the spacer to move the hub out a bit to engage the series 2 axles.

As Charlie has said - just fix what you have and put in longer bolts - there are plenty of Series 1s running around with the arrangement you have - it works well and is easier to change axles if the need crops up.

Garry

[russellrovers]

Hi All,
I finally got my S1 registered last month, full NSW rego and already have done over 1000 miles just running around, it was last registered in 1991 as JOC 330 and if anyone has any info about its history it would be much appreciated.
Anyhow as to be expected a few niggles have surfaced and the rear hub is the current issue, it has a fully floating shaft rear axle and when I bought it there where only 5 bolts in it as the sixth had a broken stud in it, got that out with an easy out and put the correct bolt in. After running around it started leaking oil and when I pulled the bolts, 5 of the 6 where snapped! I got two out by drilling and using the easy out, then the drill bit snapped and now I think the hub is stuffed.
After looking at the manual and seeing what I had, I have a spacer half inch wide between the hub and driving member, so the right bolts are actually half an inch too short!!
Does any one know if this is a standard S1 rear axle and the spacer is something to use later axles shafts? Once we solve this mystery, does anyone have a rear hub assembly sitting around as I've stuffed mine!!
I've attached a couple of pic's....
Cheers
Jasonhi standard 1957 si had fully flooating axles jim

[Jcrowe69]

Thanks for your replies guys, I'm planning to keep the set-up but have mangled the hub, I have three clear good holes, two which the drill wandered to the side drilling the stud so the easyout won't move whats left and the last hole the drill bit has busted in the remnants of the stud, I like your idea with the centre punch Charlie but its just too deep and narrow.
I'm guessing you'd have one of these hub assemblies lying around Jim...
Cheers
Jason

[Dinty]

Jim is correct I had a 88" S1 it had fully floating rear axle, genuine S1 axles as well, cheers Dennis

[JDNSW]

Most Series 1 had a semifloating rear axle, but fully floating was standard I believe on 107wagons and 109s in the last year of production, and optional on all others.

Because the S1 axle housing is shorter than the Series 2/2a/3 axle housing, the fully floating axles have half shafts about an inch shorter than the later ones. Because they were only used on a tiny proportion of vehicles, they are almost unobtainable.

A common solution is to use the later half shaft, and fit a spacer made by turning the centre out of an axle flange, and this appears to be what you have. And as you have found, that really means you need longer bolts, which being BSF, are not that easy to find.

If you have drive flange bolts coming loose (not just on this modified setup) make sure that the bearings do not have excess play, as this will very rapidly loosen the bolts.

[russellrovers]

Thanks for your replies guys, I'm planning to keep the set-up but have mangled the hub, I have three clear good holes, two which the drill wandered to the side drilling the stud so the easyout won't move whats left and the last hole the drill bit has busted in the remnants of the stud, I like your idea with the centre punch Charlie but its just too deep and narrow.
I'm guessing you'd have one of these hub assemblies lying around Jim...
Cheers
Jasonyes i will put them on the tralior for cooma jim

[101RRS]

The subject vehicle is an 86 so would have the semi floating rear axles originally.

I have two complete 57 88s and a 57 rear axle from another 88 and all are semi floats so all 57s didn't have fully floating but as John mentioned, in the last year of manufacture the long wheel bases transitioned to fully floating.

[JDNSW]

Yes, and it also needs to be remembered that at this remove it is almost impossible to be certain that what you see today is what was on the vehicle when it was sold new. Any first buyer for a Series 1 is today at least in their mid seventies , assuming they had a licence at the time, and bearing in mind that few new vehicle buyers in the fifties were that young, I expect most would now be in their eighties or older.

[russellrovers]

Hi All,
I finally got my S1 registered last month, full NSW rego and already have done over 1000 miles just running around, it was last registered in 1991 as JOC 330 and if anyone has any info about its history it would be much appreciated.
Anyhow as to be expected a few niggles have surfaced and the rear hub is the current issue, it has a fully floating shaft rear axle and when I bought it there where only 5 bolts in it as the sixth had a broken stud in it, got that out with an easy out and put the correct bolt in. After running around it started leaking oil and when I pulled the bolts, 5 of the 6 where snapped! I got two out by drilling and using the easy out, then the drill bit snapped and now I think the hub is stuffed.
After looking at the manual and seeing what I had, I have a spacer half inch wide between the hub and driving member, so the right bolts are actually half an inch too short!!
Does any one know if this is a standard S1 rear axle and the spacer is something to use later axles shafts? Once we solve this mystery, does anyone have a rear hub assembly sitting around as I've stuffed mine!!
I've attached a couple of pic's....
Cheers
Jasonhi jason i will put a complete set of semi rear hubs on for you jim

[JDNSW]

I perhaps should add to my last post that conversions of semifloating to fully floating hubs was not uncommon in the 1960s or thereabouts. The Series 2 parts just bolt on, the only special parts needed are the half axles - which as I commented earlier, are just about unobtainable, so a lot of these conversions would have used the same spacers.

The semifloating setup works quite well, is less prone to oil leaks, and is original for most Series 1. While there is only one bearing rather than two, and it is ball rather than roller, it is larger diameter and does not have to handle side loads. The only real issue is repairability in the field. The fully floating axle is fully repairable with only hand tools and a jack - the semifloating one needs a press.

I have had one fail, in 1962, and it was repaired in Moonbi on the New England Hwy in a couple of hours. (new bearing and retainer sleeve off the shelf) Try that today! (for any vehicle, not just a Landrover)

That incident has, though, made me a fan of the fully floating hubs.

[101RRS]

While there is only one bearing rather than two, and it is ball rather than roller, it is larger diameter and does not have to handle side loads. The only real issue is repairability in the field. The fully floating axle is fully repairable with only hand tools and a jack - the semifloating one needs a press.

In 1979 I lived in Newcastle and was down at Yalwal 4wding in my 54 Series 1 86 and busted a rear axle - I managed to get it back to a garage and pulled the broken axle out however the garage did not have big enough equipment to get the bearing off. As I needed to get home we just cut the axle off at the bearing and reinstalled. Drove the 400km back to Newcastle in front wheel drive on a front drive system that had not really been maintained in 25 years - due to the slack the snatch in the drivetrain was incedible but we got there.

If it had fully floating - just pull both axles, drop the diff to get the broken bit of axle out of the diff (why do they always break that end [bigsad]) - reassemble with a new axle and your on your way.

Garry

[Grappler]

Most Series 1 had a semifloating rear axle, but fully floating was standard I believe on 107wagons and 109s in the last year of production, and optional on all others.

Because the S1 axle housing is shorter than the Series 2/2a/3 axle housing, the fully floating axles have half shafts about an inch shorter than the later ones. Because they were only used on a tiny proportion of vehicles, they are almost unobtainable.

A common solution is to use the later half shaft, and fit a spacer made by turning the centre out of an axle flange, and this appears to be what you have. And as you have found, that really means you need longer bolts, which being BSF, are not that easy to find.

If you have drive flange bolts coming loose (not just on this modified setup) make sure that the bearings do not have excess play, as this will very rapidly loosen the bolts.

Thats right - the floating axle shafts are rare as for S1
I recall machining up a similar spacer for my 107, because I couldnt get the correct length axle shafts.

[Jcrowe69]

Thanks for all the info fellas, kind of confirmed what what I thought was the case,
Jim, I'll DM you as I want to sort this out before Cooma, leaking oil like crazy and I actually drive her nearly every day....

[rover-56]

The '58 SWB Station Wagons had fully floating rear axles. I got my oily hands on one for my '55 after finding I couldn't buy semi floating axles in the late '70s. Then I couldn't buy '58 fully floating axles after breaking one.[bawl]
I decided to make spacers for the end of the axle housing behind the brake backplate. I liked the idea of widening the track.
Now that the axle supply is easy I haven't broken one since.....[bighmmm]
Terry