rangie operating temps

[fernockulated]

ok having just done the head gaskets on thumper ,took it for a run last week, just up the road and up the hill to spicers gap,temps went thru the roof (3/4 to 7/8) ,was told that it was probably due to non exsistant thernostat,so have replaced it with a new one ,and retraced the run today and got the same results,thumper is running one thermo fan behind the radiator(always on) and two in front of the radiator,
any theories,suggestions?

[DRanged]

What was the cause of the head gasket failure??is it still there??
Is the cooling system properly bled and pressure tested.
How old is your radiator is it the original 86 unit??
How is the water pump??

The 2 fans in front usually are for the air con condensor, why does the thermo fan run continuously is it telling you something or is it not wired with a t/stat. Also what diameter is the fan and does its cowling cover the whole radiator??

Hope this helps.

[LandyAndy]

Hi Ferno
Bleeding thermostat problems :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
You may have air trapped in the system,if your thermostat hasnt got a bleed hole to allow air to pass thru,drill a small hole.If air is blocked at the thermostat the hot water wont open the thermostat.
Also a trap for new home mechanics,is the thermostat installed the correct "way around" :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: ,should have "to rad" stamped one side,many dont.The spring side needs the hot water flow against it to make it open.
Best of luck
Andrew

[PhilipA]

Have you been up Cunningham's gap on a hot day before with only one electric fan with no probs.
Under about 60Kmh the fan plays a role as you go slower. One electric fan has about 1/10 the cooling capacity of a viscous.
Why not borrow a viscous and try it?
Dirty rad, no viscous would be my picks.
Regards Philip A

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Ferno, having owned a 3.5 for some time now I can tell you the guage gets to the middle slowly,, but never EVER moves more than a needle width either way, deserts, northern territory highway, city traffic, NOTHING makes it move.
8) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[abaddonxi]

Seal on radiator cap going?

I've got that at the moment, I can just see dribbles of dried coolant around the top of the bottle.

Cheers
Simon

[dungarover]

Sounds like a radiator blockage if the temp goes through the roof.

I've found that a rad clearout is good practise every 1-2 years or so. I've always had them done every year and found most of my cooling problems are non-existent.

Did you replace your water pump? I know it costs a bit extra when you are doing any sort of engine work, if your original was a bit suss I would replace it for the sake of eliminating headaches.

Stupid question, you did put the gasket on the right way? Also did you gradually tourque your heads ot did you just go straight up to 70ft/lbs or whatever they are (can't remember what the torque setting at this point in time).

Just some ideas of where to start. Thermostat also as well as air trapped in the system as others have mentioned.

Good luck,

Trav

[joe]

Somtimes the rad hoses will squash flat if the rubber in them has gotten week.
Get the temp to go over half after a short run , then pop the hood look in and give the engine some hi revs by hand , you may see that the water pump sucks the pipes together as the thermostat opens up 8O .
I have had cars in the past that have done this.
hope it helps. :wink: .

[fernockulated]

:roll: ok,from the top,


DRanged Posted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What was the cause of the head gasket failure??is it still there??
Is the cooling system properly bled and pressure tested.
How old is your radiator is it the original 86 unit??
How is the water pump??

The 2 fans in front usually are for the air con condensor, why does the thermo fan run continuously is it telling you something or is it not wired with a t/stat. Also what diameter is the fan and does its cowling cover the whole radiator??

Hope this helps.

cause of original problem was a lower rad hose blowout,possible caused by dicky thermostat,hose and thermostat replaced

system bled as best i can do, but i dont have a pressure tester

have only had the vehicle a month or so ,so cant tell how old the rad is

the water pump "seems" to be working ok

not sure why fan is permanently on ,it does have a t/stat wired in but maybe not working or adjusted rite

and this is where i tend to lean towards the probs ,the fan only covers about half the rad as does the cowling


next :roll:


LandyAndy --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ferno
Bleeding thermostat problems
You may have air trapped in the system,if your thermostat hasnt got a bleed hole to allow air to pass thru,drill a small hole.If air is blocked at the thermostat the hot water wont open the thermostat.
Also a trap for new home mechanics,is the thermostat installed the correct "way around" ,should have "to rad" stamped one side,many dont.The spring side needs the hot water flow against it to make it open.
Best of luck
Andrew

thermostat is a new one ,it has a bleed hole in it,and i am far from a new home mechanic :roll: i think if i can tackle a head gasket job on a V8 then i should know how to put in a thermo https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (first job was two years mech app :roll: )besides ya just put it in the same way it came out https://www.aulro.com/afvb/


next

PhilipA--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Have you been up Cunningham's gap on a hot day before with only one electric fan with no probs.
Under about 60Kmh the fan plays a role as you go slower. One electric fan has about 1/10 the cooling capacity of a viscous.
Why not borrow a viscous and try it?
Dirty rad, no viscous would be my picks.
Regards Philip A


where did you get cunninghams from? and no,i havent been up there before as i have only just purchased this vehicle(may have been a big mistake :oops: )any one got a spare viscous and shroud?


next,

Pedro_The_Swift

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ferno, having owned a 3.5 for some time now I can tell you the guage gets to the middle slowly,, but never EVER moves more than a needle width either way, deserts, northern territory highway, city traffic, NOTHING makes it move.



except for a very hot motor,thermostat opens in a saucepan of water just as it boils,seems strange that it has to boil before it opens,thought it would have opened a little earlier than that


next,

abaddonxi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seal on radiator cap going?

I've got that at the moment, I can just see dribbles of dried coolant around the top of the bottle.

Cheers
Simon


have tried a couple of different caps,no difference :roll:

next

aquarangie

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like a radiator blockage if the temp goes through the roof.

I've found that a rad clearout is good practise every 1-2 years or so. I've always had them done every year and found most of my cooling problems are non-existent.

Did you replace your water pump? I know it costs a bit extra when you are doing any sort of engine work, if your original was a bit suss I would replace it for the sake of eliminating headaches.

Stupid question, you did put the gasket on the right way? Also did you gradually tourque your heads ot did you just go straight up to 70ft/lbs or whatever they are (can't remember what the torque setting at this point in time).

Just some ideas of where to start. Thermostat also as well as air trapped in the system as others have mentioned.

Good luck,

Trav

rad seemed clean ,put the hose thru it tonite ,backflushed, and it flowed quite freely,yes, i put the gaskets on rite,it said top on one side ,so i put that side to the top of the motor



nah,just kidding https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

and yes, i did it in three stages

next

joe :

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somtimes the rad hoses will squash flat if the rubber in them has gotten week.
Get the temp to go over half after a short run , then pop the hood look in and give the engine some hi revs by hand , you may see that the water pump sucks the pipes together as the thermostat opens up .
I have had cars in the past that have done this.
hope it helps. .


most hoses are well and truly expanded by the time it gets hot :roll:

thanks for the info guys ,am leaning towards the fans being the problem,so need to find a viscous coupling and fan blade and shroud, any one got a spare lying around?

[PhilipA]

[quote="fernockulated"]:roll: ok,from the top,


DRanged Posted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



PhilipA--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




where did you get cunninghams from? and no,i havent been up there before as i have only just purchased this vehicle(may have been a big mistake :oops: )any one got a spare viscous and shroud?

When you said "Up the hill to Spicers" there is/was a turn off to Spicers just over Cunninghams gap. I believe a part of the old Spicers road with the convict pavement is now closed. Havent driven it for 20+ years
So you were talking about going up the track to Spicers. IE you were going slowly in low range. Then almost certainly viscous and/or radiator.
Regards Philip A

[fernockulated]

:roll: um,well you are correct in saying that part of the track is closed ,HOWEVER, https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ as i live on spicers gap rd, i was going up the eastern side ,at a fair rate of acceleration,tho not quite rally speed, it was at a reaonable speed in high range,this road can be driven by conventional 2by's,so speed was relevant to expecting terrorist , oops i mean tourist traffic on the down run 8)

[DRanged]

If you cannot get a viscous fan and shroud go to your nearest Ford dealer and buy a thermofan set for an AU 6cyl or 8cyl falcon ute there are two fans + the cowling and it fits a Rangie radiator very well and brackets are not hard to make or fit. These fans will cost you about $200 complete which is very cheap for thermos. I run them on my rangie which is running a 3.9 Isuzu diesel which I can run the air con all day on road off road low range , mud, rock climbing you name it and they handle it perfectly.
The trick is in the shroud it must cover the whole core.
My cheap fan secret is out.

Regards Justin

[LandyAndy]

Hey Ferno.
No insult intended at all.I would NEVER just put a part back the way it was to start with,assuming it was correct in the first place.Thats what workshop manuals are for.I have helped 3 mates out with overheating cars,the cause,BACK TO FRONT THERMOSTAT!!!!!!!!
Andrew

[fernockulated]

:roll: hmmmm,the twin fan setup sounds like a cheeper option,if for two fans and shroud for approx $200,considering the 4wd catologue quotes the viscous coupling at $220 plus the fan blade at $209,its only plastic for cripes sake 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O plus then to find a shroud ,it aint rocket science!!!! https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Bushie]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>except for a very hot motor,thermostat opens in a saucepan of water just as it boils,seems strange that it has to boil before it opens,thought it would have opened a little earlier than that [/b][/quote]

Unless I've read this wrong I think we have a problem here, from memory the thermostat should be opening at around 83 deg. and fully open at about 88 deg.

I take it the temp is actually that high and there isn't a faulty temp gauge, I fixed mine with a new sender when I had this type of problem years ago.

Just a couple of thoughts


BUshie

[fernockulated]

Originally posted by Bushie
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>except for a very hot motor,thermostat opens in a saucepan of water just as it boils,seems strange that it has to boil before it opens,thought it would have opened a little earlier than that

Unless I've read this wrong I think we have a problem here, from memory the thermostat should be opening at around 83 deg. and fully open at about 88 deg.

I take it the temp is actually that high and there isn't a faulty temp gauge, I fixed mine with a new sender when I had this type of problem years ago.

Just a couple of thoughts


BUshie[/b][/quote]

tis a very frustrating situation,and could be costly as well :roll:
not completly knowing the previous running situation (vehicle bought unreg so not a large test drive available) tis very difficult coming up with a logical answer to the problem,it could be therm probs ,BUT it overheated without a thermo in,was it overheating before ,maybe ,was told by prev owner that the temps had gone up a bit but had been a faulty relay on the fan circuit,supposedly fixed (why does fan run always on? )could it be that fan not big enough,it only covers half of the radiator 8O could it be the piddly little fifty dollar item(inflation ) the sender unit that is faulty,dunno 8O :?
seems that it will be a process of elimination ,cheapest to dearest,as its always the $2 part that lets you down :wink: :roll:

[fernockulated]

Originally posted by LandyAndy
Hey Ferno.
No insult intended at all.Andrew

none taken https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ 8)
I got thick skin ,i own a rangie https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ :oops:

[Pedro_The_Swift]

hmm, you shouldnt need any fans while driving on main roads, airflow is sufficient.
thats why its a viscous fan---
:?

[HangOver]

Hi Mate
I really feel for you, I had a very similar problem.
The RR would run for about 10-20 minutes then the gauge would hit the red.

I eventually replaced the radiator, thermostat, temp sensor, hoses, whatever I’m not going to list it all but lets just say it cost a few $$$ and was a pain in the ar$3 for a couple of weeks.

Anyhow………
Firstly your thermostat should open WAY!! before boiling, if memory serves, (it usually doesn’t) it starts to open about 80 degrees.

Also you said
“the fan only covers about half the rad as does the cowling”
I have an older rangie with a viscous setup, (81’) and the fan covers about 1/2 the radiator but the cowling covers the whole core of the radiator.
So the cowling doesn’t sound as if it’s the right one but I could be corrected?

If you are going to stick with electric fans put two on to cover the whole radiator.

I put my problem down, (I think) to lack of a thermostat and a bunged up radiator.
Try getting your radiator cleaned it costs about $100
Or use the DIY method like me, remove the radiator place on a flat surface, (like your drive way) and flush it through from the bottom up.
Then, (listen to the screams of landy fans) I put a solution of pool acid, (approx 20%) and water and refilled the radiator, let it bubble for a few minutes then flushed it through, a lot, with a garden hose. A lot of crap came out when I done it.

You may also want to check you temperature gauge to make sure it really is overheating, This is advise from another website:
Check the gauge itself by pulling the connector off the sensor and measuring the voltage on it (should be about 10 volts). With an 82 ohm resistor to ground in place of the sender, the temp gauge should read about mid range. The thermostat can be checked by heating it in a saucepan of water and measuring the temperature at which it opens (should be around 88 deg C).

Hope this helps

Steve

[TheEntertainer]

Hi,
If you are worried about the temp going up before you realize it, get an EMS from me, the ems monitors you real time temperature and send you a visible and audible sound as a warning. Take a look at www.4x4gadgets.com.au this might just help in the future!

[fernockulated]

Originally posted by TheEntertainer
Hi,
If you are worried about the temp going up before you realize it, get an EMS from me, the ems monitors you real time temperature and send you a visible and audible sound as a warning. Take a look at www.4x4gadgets.com.au this might just help in the future!

ok,the demo is for a TD5, mine is a 3.5 PETROL,do these little black boxes fit and work on petrol motors and what is the $$$ to buy these things ,in case i am interested ,or anyone else for that matter? :roll: 8)

[TheEntertainer]

The little black box is Priced is $269, and can be fitted to almost any vehicle (Cars, Oldtimers, trucks, forklifts…). Can you send me your vehicle details so that I can check if we have installations instruction on it as we have for the devender and disco’s.

[loanrangie]

You can also use a viscous unit and fan off a falcon xf i think but you need to trim the blades ti fit in the cowling. I'm not 100% but i think i have this on my 85 rangie as the blades look like they have been trimmed previously- they are probably quite cheap new too.

[fernockulated]

Originally posted by loanrangie
You can also use a viscous unit and fan off a falcon xf i think but you need to trim the blades ti fit in the cowling. I'm not 100% but i think i have this on my 85 rangie as the blades look like they have been trimmed previously- they are probably quite cheap new too.

well ,have put the rad cleaner thru the rad, and gone half way with the thermo (one with the centre cut out ) and still it goes thru to the red zone!!!! :? :? :?
sounds like ford knew what was coming in the spares dept. i think i mite just be able to get hold of a viscous and fan from an xf,then to get hold of a full shroud.............
thanks for the info loanrangie :wink: 8)

oh,and entertainer,it is an 86 Range Rover,3.5 litre petrol,manual,although i will have to sort the original problem first before putting on any exy after market doodadds,thanks anyway 8)

[PhilipA]

Look , all the radiator cleaner in the world does not usually clean a Rover radiator as they have very small tubes.
The ONLY way to clean a Rover rad is to have it dismantled and rodded which costs about $100. But 9 times out of ten the rad will be stuffed and the dirt is the only thing holding it together.
Please do this next.
Regard sPhilip A

[HangOver]

further to my last post, I changed my rad for a good used one, $60 & added a new RR dealer thermostat, $12.
It fixed it for $72

If your rad is bunged up no amount of fans is going to keep it cool.

I would think you need a full shrowd, but then i'm not a mechanic.

[fernockulated]

:roll: well its looking like the rad will have to come out and go to the rad shop and get a good clean out,it seems to be flowing thru it but,just for good measure and may as well spend more $$ on it,will still look at going back to the viscous setup as i dont think that a thermo fan only covering about 3/4 of the radiator is really gunna cut it,oh well ,its only money :oops: https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[fernockulated]

:roll: well,i must say a BIG thank you to all the posters to this thread,after racking my grey matter to find the problem with the overheating,i turned to the lads at the tech section,and they have all come thru with plenty of good advice ( as usual! 8) )most of which i had already done ,but did again for good measure,just to be sure.
yesterday i went over to the old mans shed to see if he still had all the old xf parts from his old falcon,much to my dismay ,we found everything other than a viscous setup https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ , so went back to thumper to have yet another ponder session,fired her up and tried the old fine sand in front of the rad to see just how much air was getting sucked thru,shock horror ,NONE!!!!
ok,stopped motor checking rotation of fan as it slowed ,checked fan once stopped ,to find that the fan is actually running BACKWARDS 8O 8O 8O 8O
result,fan blowing hot air from motor back thru rad,actually heating it up,so changed the wiring (5 second job) fan now running the rite way and all temps are back to normal,so that is now another check to put in the checklist of overheating probs,knew it had to be a 50 cent item that was causing big $$$ problems :roll: :roll:

[LandyAndy]

Hi Ferno
Ive come across that one before.Now what was it you said about putting things back the way they were????
Andrew

[fernockulated]

:roll: well i did put it back the way it was ,seems previous owner (or his mech) somehow wired the fan wrong or had it to pieces and didnt check the rotation of the blades,it had me to the state of either put another engine in or just sell the thing on ebay and start again,but thankfully i perserveered (spell check please ron!) and found the cause reverse a few wires and hey presto all is now running cool again,it seems that it was having to get to some speed before the incoming air was more than the fan was forcing out,therefore motor was getting hotter ,hotter air from engine blowing onto rad,overheating rad,temp gauge thru roof ,you know the rest,suffice to say ,it is finally sorted,thankfully :roll: 8)

[LandyAndy]

I feel for you Ferno
There is nothing worse banging your head against the wall trying to sort it out yourself.At least you solved the prob WELL DONE.
Andrew

[fernockulated]

:roll: has only taken just over two weeks :oops: :roll:

now to get back on track again 8O :?

[one_iota]

Ferno,

Have been following this with interest.

Good to see things revolving in the right direction at last https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[abaddonxi]

Phew,

Nothing worse than trying to reverse-engineer someone else's stupidity.

Cheers
Simon